History Repeats

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

"Wow... that's disgusting. I'll say it right here, right now- I'm never eating Lays again"

I'll follow suit....that is disgusting if it really happened. I really have no idea if its true or not. I dont know much of anything about messier - yea he won the cup with the NYR in 1994 but imo his best years were before my time when i was a child and I really wasnt an nhl fan then.

ok when i say make a case I mean I could say why Holmstrom deserves to be there.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Holmstrom96Screens

[eva unit zero 271]

To have your jersey retired as a Wing, it is generally accepted that there are a few considerations that must be met.

1) You must have, as a Red Wing, been considered among the top players in the world at your position, and therefore have been a key player for the team for at least a few years. Awards, trophies, and All-Star selections help with this consideration.

Based on that criterion, the following players are 'eligible' for consideration:

#2 "Black" Jack Stewart

#3 Marcel Pronovost

#4 Red Kelly

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom

#5 Ebbie Goodfellow

#6 Larry Aurie

#7 Norm Ullman

#8 Syd Howe

#13 Pavel Datsyuk

#14 Brendan Shanahan

#16 Vladimir Konstantinov

#30 Chris Osgood

#40 Henrik Zetterberg

#91 Sergei Fedorov

However, this list is pared down a bit when you consider the next criterion:

2) You must have started with Detroit and spent the majority of your career with the Wings

Thereby removed from the list are Shanahan and Syd Howe. Yet more players are removed when you further with the next criterion:

3) You must be a Hall of Famer.

HHOF eligible players removed from the list include Larry Aurie and Vladimir Konstantinov. Nicklas Lidstrom and Sergei Fedorov are active players and considered HHOF locks. Chris Osgood, Henrik Zetterberg, and Pavel Datsyuk are active players with a strong likelihood of ending their career at HHOF level.

Finally, there is the fourth, and most subjective consideration.

4) The player and organization must have a positive relationship, and there usually must be an 'afterglow' or 'nostalgia' feel regarding the player; players who leave on bad terms and/or aren't remembered fondly are less likely to receive the honor. Typically a long, successful career ending in Detroit is the best way to foster this feeling. Leaving town after one's prime tends to have a small negative effect, and leaving at the top of your game and/or while the team is having considerable success tends to have a significant negative effect. Sometimes the 'nostalgia' of a player's success can outweigh a negative departure, depending on how well the player performed and how much time has passed.

So the five most likely players to have their jersey hung in the future, in order:

1) #5 Nicklas Lidstrom

2) #30 Chris Osgood*

3) #91 Sergei Fedorov

4) #40 Henrik Zetterberg*

5) #13 Pavel Datsyuk*

*- Pending HHOF induction likelihood

Other players who could potentially have banners hung, but will likely never see another player wear their number:

#5 Ebbie Goodfellow

#6 Larry Aurie

#7 Norm Ullman

#16 Vladimir Konstantinov

Edited July 9, 2008 by eva unit zero

[egroen 384]

Messier's stay in Vancouver was less than stellar to say the least... little over 150 pts in 3 years, demanded #11 and demanded the captaincy from Trevor Linden who was then traded. He is not well remembered in Vancouver.

I always bring that up whenever someone starts spouting about how he was a better captain than Yzerman.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

1) #5 Nicklas Lidstrom

2) #30 Chris Osgood*

3) #91 Sergei Fedorov

4) #40 Henrik Zetterberg*

5) #13 Pavel Datsyuk*

Basically, though I think Zetterberg and Datsyuk have more to prove; if they keep up on this track and win one more cup I think it's a no brainer

Lidstrom is the only one of the pack that I think should have a Stevei-Y next year retirement. Osgood, maybe. Federov should be a few years from his retirement I think. Zetterberg and Datsyuk, tough to say right now.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

To have your jersey retired as a Wing, it is generally accepted that there are a few considerations that must be met.

1) You must have, as a Red Wing, been considered among the top players in the world at your position, and therefore have been a key player for the team for at least a few years. Awards, trophies, and All-Star selections help with this consideration.

Based on that criterion, the following players are 'eligible' for consideration:

#2 "Black" Jack Stewart

#3 Marcel Pronovost

#4 Red Kelly

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom

#5 Ebbie Goodfellow

#6 Larry Aurie

#7 Norm Ullman

#8 Syd Howe

#13 Pavel Datsyuk

#14 Brendan Shanahan

#16 Vladimir Konstantinov

#30 Chris Osgood

#40 Henrik Zetterberg

#91 Sergei Fedorov

However, this list is pared down a bit when you consider the next criterion:

2) You must have started with Detroit and spent the majority of your career with the Wings

Thereby removed from the list are Goodfellow, Shanahan, and Syd Howe. Yet more players are removed when you further with the next criterion:

3) You must be a Hall of Famer.

HHOF eligible players removed from the list include Larry Aurie and Vladimir Konstantinov. Nicklas Lidstrom and Sergei Fedorov are active players and considered HHOF locks. Chris Osgood, Henrik Zetterberg, and Pavel Datsyuk are active players with a strong likelihood of ending their career at HHOF level.

Finally, there is the fourth, and most subjective consideration.

4) The player and organization must have a positive relationship, and there usually must be an 'afterglow' or 'nostalgia' feel regarding the player; players who leave on bad terms and/or aren't remembered fondly are less likely to receive the honor. Typically a long, successful career ending in Detroit is the best way to foster this feeling. Leaving town after one's prime tends to have a small negative effect, and leaving at the top of your game and/or while the team is having considerable success tends to have a significant negative effect. Sometimes the 'nostalgia' of a player's success can outweigh a negative departure, depending on how well the player performed and how much time has passed.

So the five most likely players to have their jersey hung in the future, in order:

1) #5 Nicklas Lidstrom

2) #30 Chris Osgood*

3) #91 Sergei Fedorov

4) #40 Henrik Zetterberg*

5) #13 Pavel Datsyuk*

*- Pending HHOF induction likelihood

How so Homer? yes hes a long time serving member of the wings, but what has he done thats so spectacular?

ok, I admit it, you might not take my opinion with much more than a grain of salt because I freely admit to being a Tomas Holmstrom junkie thanks to some wings fans who got me into reading about him and doing research on him.

but I do know what I'm talking about and I've been an NHL hockey fan almost 20 years.

I'll admit, he's never going to wear a C like Liddy, or an A, he will never be an elder (one of my words for it). Not officially, he wont.

Or an A or be a sharpshootting two way player like Dats and Zett and somewhat again like Liddy because Liddy can score as well as playe defence.

Or win Norrises and Selkes and Lady Byngs again like said three players.

but based on that criteria given there is no way that that would not include Homer. with the exception of being a HOF'er. He isnt a HoF'er - yet. or close to it. I think you've got to be retired what is it, 5 years? to be even a candidate.

Who is better at the job he does, his particular job, than Homer? There have been players, Dino Ciccareli is one example of a wing that did the job, and an example of a non wing who did the job would be Smyth, but even experts admit that Homer is the best. He is among the best, if not the best in the world, at that particular job he learned to perfect as a little boy and teenager.

He is a long serving Red Wing who served his whole life in the Wings beginning in 1996.

Sure people outside of the wings organization dont like him much but thats because of his job and not because of Tomas Holmstrom, the person himself. He isnt, after all, dirty in fact he is quite disciplined. They love him in Detroit, he is one of the best if not the best, most valuable role player in the whole NHL and possibly in the world.

He works hard and gives it his all every game.

He has 4 stanley Cups and an Olympic gold medal from 2006. How many players can say they have that, especially in today's NHL era. One more Cup and he would have five. Very difficult to even get one cup, much less get 4.

He does give positive vibes in his particular organization. like I said, everyone loves him in Detroit.

he does have other things about him that are worthy of note. He has been instrumental in changing peopole's views about swedes (they can only produce sundins and zetterbergs) and banishing stereotypes is always a good thing.

He is a positive role model to follow because as a boy when he wanted to play hockey the odds were against him because he was the smallest kid and he couldnt skate or stickhandle very well. But he was one of those people who, despite the odds against him succeed because they have decided that they will succeed. And that is an example of good leadership skills.

He was intelligent enough to use what he had and develop something he could use in hockey and that organizations would want.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Holmstrom96Screens

[Vladifan 680]

That shouldn't be too hard...did you catch his parade day interview????

Honestly, I don't think he was bombed, although of course it's possible.

I don't believe he's well. Lately, he just looks like he doesn't have much strength. Can't explain it any more than that, but if I'm right, I hope it's not serious.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

Messier's stay in Vancouver was less than stellar to say the least... little over 150 pts in 3 years, demanded #11 and demanded the captaincy from Trevor Linden who was then traded. He is not well remembered in Vancouver.

I always bring that up whenever someone starts spouting about how he was a better captain than Yzerman.

I'll be damned....

I just looked it up and read all about Messier, Wayne Maki, and Trevor Linden.

of all the stupid bonehead stunts....

I used to watch Linden as a teenager. And well Maki was before my time so I never knew him.

what messier did to both linden, the Nucks long serving beloved captain, and Maki who's unofficial number retirement needs no explanation except to those of us like me who had never known him, was despicable imo.

I used to believe because of the stories my father told me that Messier was one of the greatest leaders the nhl has seen.

but who the hell does that if your a great leader? who?

Yzerman wouldnt have stooped so low.

You are right to claim Yzerman as a better leader than Messier.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Holmstrom96Screens

[shadow47 1]

It is nuts to pretend Osgood deserves anything more than a hearty handshake and a "job welldone" from the organization. Yeah, he's friends with Ken Holland and Mike Illitch, that does not mean that he has ever been considered of the league's best goalies (by anyone but Detroit fans in the two years they weren't sworn to hating him), the closest he came to a Vezina was runnerup (?) in '96 and then faded quickly out of fans' and voters' minds, has been the weak link on many Wings playoffs teams (not last year obviously), he's won some Cups with Detroit, but when you consider that all of their core guys like Draper, Holmstrom, etc. have all won the same amount you can't really say that # of cups should send him to the Hall or to the rafters. Win totals are a team stat. This Chris Osgood post-2008 playoffs love-fest is getting ridiculous.

[Doc Holiday 0]

It is nuts to pretend Osgood deserves anything more than a hearty handshake and a "job welldone" from the organization. Yeah, he's friends with Ken Holland and Mike Illitch, that does not mean that he has ever been considered of the league's best goalies (by anyone but Detroit fans in the two years they weren't sworn to hating him), the closest he came to a Vezina was runnerup (?) in '96 and then faded quickly out of fans' and voters' minds, has been the weak link on many Wings playoffs teams (not last year obviously), he's won some Cups with Detroit, but when you consider that all of their core guys like Draper, Holmstrom, etc. have all won the same amount you can't really say that # of cups should send him to the Hall or to the rafters. Win totals are a team stat. This Chris Osgood post-2008 playoffs love-fest is getting ridiculous.

Beat Terry Sawchuck in playoff wins this year, has the chance to beat him in regular season wins, has the best win percentage of all goalies in the top 15 in wins(himself at 15), winning records for both the Islanders and the St Louis Blues (neither team with potent defense), and the fact he changed his style in the middle of his career is pretty stellar in itself.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Doc Holiday

[octopusonice 0]

ok, I admit it, you might not take my opinion with much more than a grain of salt because I freely admit to being a Tomas Holmstrom junkie thanks to some wings fans who got me into reading about him and doing research on him.

but I do know what I'm talking about and I've been an NHL hockey fan almost 20 years.

I'll admit, he's never going to wear a C like Liddy, or an A, he will never be an elder (one of my words for it). Not officially, he wont.

Or an A or be a sharpshootting two way player like Dats and Zett and somewhat again like Liddy because Liddy can score as well as playe defence.

Or win Norrises and Selkes and Lady Byngs again like said three players.

but based on that criteria given there is no way that that would not include Homer. with the exception of being a HOF'er. He isnt a HoF'er - yet. or close to it. I think you've got to be retired what is it, 5 years? to be even a candidate.

Who is better at the job he does, his particular job, than Homer? There have been players, Dino Ciccareli is one example of a wing that did the job, and an example of a non wing who did the job would be Smyth, but even experts admit that Homer is the best. He is among the best, if not the best in the world, at that particular job he learned to perfect as a little boy and teenager.

He is a long serving Red Wing who served his whole life in the Wings beginning in 1996.

Sure people outside of the wings organization dont like him much but thats because of his job and not because of Tomas Holmstrom, the person himself. He isnt, after all, dirty in fact he is quite disciplined. They love him in Detroit, he is one of the best if not the best, most valuable role player in the whole NHL and possibly in the world.

He works hard and gives it his all every game.

He has 4 stanley Cups and an Olympic gold medal from 2006. How many players can say they have that, especially in today's NHL era. One more Cup and he would have five. Very difficult to even get one cup, much less get 4.

He does give positive vibes in his particular organization. like I said, everyone loves him in Detroit.

he does have other things about him that are worthy of note. He has been instrumental in changing peopole's views about swedes (they can only produce sundins and zetterbergs) and banishing stereotypes is always a good thing.

He is a positive role model to follow because as a boy when he wanted to play hockey the odds were against him because he was the smallest kid and he couldnt skate or stickhandle very well. But he was one of those people who, despite the odds against him succeed because they have decided that they will succeed. And that is an example of good leadership skills.

He was intelligent enough to use what he had and develop something he could use in hockey and that organizations would want.

I have nothing but good things to say about Homer and he is good at what he does, but as a forward averaging fewer than 20 goals per season, the numbers do not rise to the level of a HHOFer. He has never won any awards and has never been on an All-Star team. He has mostly been a role-playing forward during his career.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Red Wings don't have a team-level Hall of Fame. Perhaps they should. I have seen lots of football teams have a ring of honor going around the stadium with a uniform number and the name of the player. Not the same level as the HOF or a retired jersey, but some recognition that they are a part of the team's heritage. Players like Draper and Holmstrom deserve some kind of permanent recognition for their service to the team, just not in the HHOF or their number in the rafters.

[HomeNugget 2]

To have your jersey retired as a Wing, it is generally accepted that there are a few considerations that must be met.

1) You must have, as a Red Wing, been considered among the top players in the world at your position, and therefore have been a key player for the team for at least a few years. Awards, trophies, and All-Star selections help with this consideration.

Based on that criterion, the following players are 'eligible' for consideration:

#2 "Black" Jack Stewart

#3 Marcel Pronovost

#4 Red Kelly

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom

#5 Ebbie Goodfellow

#6 Larry Aurie

#7 Norm Ullman

#8 Syd Howe

#13 Pavel Datsyuk

#14 Brendan Shanahan

#16 Vladimir Konstantinov

#30 Chris Osgood

#40 Henrik Zetterberg

#91 Sergei Fedorov

However, this list is pared down a bit when you consider the next criterion:

2) You must have started with Detroit and spent the majority of your career with the Wings

Thereby removed from the list are Goodfellow, Shanahan, and Syd Howe. Yet more players are removed when you further with the next criterion:

3) You must be a Hall of Famer.

HHOF eligible players removed from the list include Larry Aurie and Vladimir Konstantinov. Nicklas Lidstrom and Sergei Fedorov are active players and considered HHOF locks. Chris Osgood, Henrik Zetterberg, and Pavel Datsyuk are active players with a strong likelihood of ending their career at HHOF level.

Finally, there is the fourth, and most subjective consideration.

4) The player and organization must have a positive relationship, and there usually must be an 'afterglow' or 'nostalgia' feel regarding the player; players who leave on bad terms and/or aren't remembered fondly are less likely to receive the honor. Typically a long, successful career ending in Detroit is the best way to foster this feeling. Leaving town after one's prime tends to have a small negative effect, and leaving at the top of your game and/or while the team is having considerable success tends to have a significant negative effect. Sometimes the 'nostalgia' of a player's success can outweigh a negative departure, depending on how well the player performed and how much time has passed.

So the five most likely players to have their jersey hung in the future, in order:

1) #5 Nicklas Lidstrom

2) #30 Chris Osgood*

3) #91 Sergei Fedorov

4) #40 Henrik Zetterberg*

5) #13 Pavel Datsyuk*

*- Pending HHOF induction likelihood

Why does Goodfellow come off the list at this point?

It is nuts to pretend Osgood deserves anything more than a hearty handshake and a "job welldone" from the organization. Yeah, he's friends with Ken Holland and Mike Illitch, that does not mean that he has ever been considered of the league's best goalies (by anyone but Detroit fans in the two years they weren't sworn to hating him), the closest he came to a Vezina was runnerup (?) in '96 and then faded quickly out of fans' and voters' minds, has been the weak link on many Wings playoffs teams (not last year obviously), he's won some Cups with Detroit, but when you consider that all of their core guys like Draper, Holmstrom, etc. have all won the same amount you can't really say that # of cups should send him to the Hall or to the rafters. Win totals are a team stat. This Chris Osgood post-2008 playoffs love-fest is getting ridiculous.

He is the second best goalie in the 80 year history of the Detroit Red Wings. His stats and cup rings say he should be there. The one thing that really does it for me though is how much he loves the city and organization. There isn't another player on the team that loves being a Wing more than Chris Osgood.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

I have nothing but good things to say about Homer and he is good at what he does, but as a forward averaging fewer than 20 goals per season, the numbers do not rise to the level of a HHOFer. He has never won any awards and has never been on an All-Star team. He has mostly been a role-playing forward during his career.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Red Wings don't have a team-level Hall of Fame. Perhaps they should. I have seen lots of football teams have a ring of honor going around the stadium with a uniform number and the name of the player. Not the same level as the HOF or a retired jersey, but some recognition that they are a part of the team's heritage. Players like Draper and Holmstrom deserve some kind of permanent recognition for their service to the team, just not in the HHOF or their number in the rafters.

He has never won any awards nor been on an all star team. well I know that. But if there was ever an award for his particular role in the NHL, (something like a norris for liddy's job or a selke for Pasha Datsyuk) Homer would win it hands down. Of that I have no doubt.

Scoring goals - his talent does not lie in scoring goals though he certainly does his best to try to score. He is a supporter for the real goal scorers mostly like his linemates Dats and Zett. You think Dats and Zett would put up the numbers they do if they did not have Homer on their line? Their job would be more difficult. Im wondering if Dats would have even joined the ranks of being one out of only 4 red wings in history to lead the team three seasons running in scoring without a guy like homer to help him.

I really wish people would stop talking about the goals. Homer is a different kind of forward. not the kind you would build a team around but a really good supporting asset. He is not a goal scoring forward though he tries to score. I really dont think Homer should be judged based on the number of goals he can score. He basically revolutionizing the role of forward playing a different job than most forwards do.

I still believe he should be in there with the rest of the red wings you all talk about who helped to bring the team out of its 42 year drought.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Holmstrom96Screens

[egroen 384]

I'm kinda suprised there is not a "Red Wings Hall of Fame" -- there definitely should be, and Holmstrom would obviously be a no-brainer for it.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

I'm kinda suprised there is not a "Red Wings Hall of Fame" -- there definitely should be, and Holmstrom would obviously be a no-brainer for it.

Thank you so much. Y'know whats even sadder is that these are so called wings fans arguing against it - that they dont even recognize the true value of their own special role player - the best in the world possibly - and to say he doesnt deserve to be up there with the other wings mentioned here - its sick thats what it is.

another shocker. Some people even mentioned Kronwall and LIlja. The LIlja was probably a joke. but kronwall? wtf? Kronwall over Homer? You've got to be kidding. There have been many guys who do the job Kronwall does way better than Kronwall and yet he is mentioned over Holmstrom - honestly, who has been better at the particular role Holmer has perfected for himself than Holmer? I challenge you. who?

[egroen 384]

Heh.... well, Probert is arguably the best enforcer ever in the NHL and certainly had a huge impact while playing for the Red Wings. He will never get his jersey hung in the rafters, but I would be all for him being inducted into a "Red Wings Hall of Fame".

I'd love to see them do it... there are a lot of guys who would deserve that recognition, without having to retire 1/4 of the numbers available.

Illitch reps: Get it done!

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

Heh.... well, Probert is arguably the best enforcer ever in the NHL and certainly had a huge impact while playing for the Red Wings. He will never get his jersey hung in the rafters, but I would be all for him being inducted into a "Red Wings Hall of Fame".

I'd love to see them do it... there are a lot of guys who would deserve that recognition, without having to retire 1/4 of the numbers available.

Illitch reps: Get it done!

I'd have to settle for a red wings hall of fame cause my guess is the nhl hof will never do it.

the bias against Holmstrom and his living in the shadow of other players even though he is the best at what he does its sick.

Even the hockey card companies cater to the bias.

I buy Holmstrom hockey cards - well Holmsy's my fave NHL player - and there are lots of # 13 and # 40 and # 5 the usual red wings but hardly any of # 96 his cards are harder to find. The dealers told me that Holmstrom isnt recognized as a star or the face of a franchise - well that he will never be. Yzerman is the face of a franchise.

and I dont think i need bring up the many times he gets a goal waved off or a penalty well because its Number 96 ! The refs even penalize him based on reputation.

To tell the truth I wouldnt be surprised if some dope in the league brings in a "homer's ass rule" or something.

well the fact that even these red wings fans are arguing against it is sort of the icing on the cake to me. People from his own organization. even though he is the best at what he does and you guys should be so lucky to have him and recognize him for what he truly is, you would argue against it.

[JayUp88 1]

I normally like to stay away from the "retired jersey" topics because we have no say in it but today I am bored at work so I'm going to get in this one.

-Feds left because he wanted too, you don't you're jersey retired in Detroit if you leave because you don't want to be here. Even if your best years were here.

-Shanny, see above.

-Osgood, he left because Detroit wanted to move on but then ran right back to them as soon as they could. look at the numbers, this guy should be in the HHOF

-Lids, they already have the banner made.

-Draper, for what he has done i think he should have it up there, but it wont be. I think it should at least go the way of number 16.

[eva unit zero 271]

If Homer deserves to have his jersey retired for being the one of best at screening the goalie at a particular point in league history...

Other players who should be considered who were among the best in the league at something as a Wing:

Probert (enforcer), Kocur (enforcer), Draper (faceoffs), Cheveldae (glove hand), Macoun (playoff beard), Harold Snepsts and Wendel Clark (mustache), Lang (eating contests), Krupp (dogsledding)

When I said 'among the best in the league' that meant 'among forwards, defensemen, or goalies' and not at a specific skill. That's why you don't see guys like Russ Courtnall and Al Iafrate getting their jerseys retired. Both were phenomenal skaters with huge shots, and although they had elite-level top-end games, they usually didn't play at that level.

[19Hockeytown5 0]

There is no question Lidstrom #5 will hang up with #19.

Shanahan and Federov would have but now should not (and won't) be up there.

I completely agree that guys like Draper, Holmstrom, Mccarty, Maltby, ect have been great for us. They are all fantastic role players (detroit would not have won cups without these men) and played in Detroit most/all of their careers. However, they should be honored in another way such as a Red Wings hall of fame or some other kind (pictures in the lobby, statues or something) not jersey retirement.

#30 osgood. He is quietly breaking many red Wings goaltending records and if he plays 3-4 more years he will have many more. The fans love the man and he has been nothing but a class act. It will be interesting to see if he can add another cup ring (or 2) and break some more of sawchuk's records. If he does I think he COULD deserve a place up there when all is said and done, just not yet.

Edited July 9, 2008 by 19Hockeytown5

[HomeNugget 2]

Scoring goals - his talent does not lie in scoring goals though he certainly does his best to try to score. He is a supporter for the real goal scorers mostly like his linemates Dats and Zett. You think Dats and Zett would put up the numbers they do if they did not have Homer on their line? Their job would be more difficult. Im wondering if Dats would have even joined the ranks of being one out of only 4 red wings in history to lead the team three seasons running in scoring without a guy like homer to help him.

Yes.

I really wish people would stop talking about the goals. Homer is a different kind of forward. not the kind you would build a team around but a really good supporting asset. He is not a goal scoring forward though he tries to score. I really dont think Homer should be judged based on the number of goals he can score. He basically revolutionizing the role of forward playing a different job than most forwards do.

Every player on the team who isn't a star could be considered a "supporting asset." Should they all have their numbers retired?

Edit: Spelling

Edited July 9, 2008 by HomeNugget

[vangvace 12]

Honestly, Osgood is still kinda "meh" It's how he goes about his business and that could hurt him once he's done. But then again I'm a little biased against so...

Just say no to Fedorov.

[eva unit zero 271]

NM. Edited July 9, 2008 by eva unit zero

[HomeNugget 2]

He began his career with the New York Americans. Yes, he played the majority in Detroit...but did not start there. It's also a strike against Kris Draper, had he made it that far into the process. Syd Howe was arguably a better Wing than Goodfellow was, and spent most of his career as a Wing, and also is shaved off for this reason. Shanahan is the only one of the three who is shaved off not only due to where he started, but to 'time served' as Shanahan has played more than half of his career, including his best seasons, outside of Detroit. This makes Shanny the least likely of the three removed at this point as the other two were still fairly inexperienced when they joined the Wings, while Shanny was the top power forward in the world and had passed his peak.

I think you're mistaken.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdispla...?pid%5B%5D=1960

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/goodfeb01.html

[eva unit zero 271]

I think you're mistaken.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdispla...?pid%5B%5D=1960

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/goodfeb01.html

Hmm, when I was compiling that list I looked up Goodfellow (to confirm number) and could have sworn mention was made of him being an American. Can't get 'em all right I suppose.

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

Who is better at the job he does, his particular job, than Homer? There have been players, Dino Ciccareli is one example of a wing that did the job, and an example of a non wing who did the job would be Smyth, but even experts admit that Homer is the best. He is among the best, if not the best in the world, at that particular job he learned to perfect as a little boy and teenager.

He is a long serving Red Wing who served his whole life in the Wings beginning in 1996.

Sure people outside of the wings organization dont like him much but thats because of his job and not because of Tomas Holmstrom, the person himself. He isnt, after all, dirty in fact he is quite disciplined. They love him in Detroit, he is one of the best if not the best, most valuable role player in the whole NHL and possibly in the world.

As for the first point i agree, he probably is the best screening goaltenders than anyone else, but probably not enough to guarentee jersey retirement or even HOF.

As for the second point... just sounds like guy love!!! which i know we all feel from time to time