Top 10 Red Wings of the Last 15 years?

[miller76 463]

My top ten.

1. Yzerman

2. Lidstrom

3. Shanahan

4. Zetterberg

5. Federov

6. Draper

7. Osgood

8. Datsyuk

9. Konstantinov

10. Hasek

[MabusIncarnate 5,359]

I'd love some of the crack that's going around that's got people putting Fedorov ahead of Yzerman on a list like this. That's just garbage IMO, I put Shanahan on the list ahead of Fedorov, we didn't win a cup until Shanahan joined the Wings. With an organization like this comes class, which Fedorov lacked too. That knocks back a few points. If this were looking a few years into the future, Fedorov would be #7 as both Dats and Hank are gonna be better players than he ever was. I remember a Fedorov that held out for more money, got his contract, and magically turned from great to above average. At least Lidstrom and Yzerman kept playing at the best of their ability once they got their contracts.

1) Yzerman

2) Lidstrom

3) Shanahan

4) Osgood

5) Fedorov

6) Datsyuk

7) Zetterberg

8) Larionov

9) Draper

10) Hasek

[BobRouse03 31]

1. Darryl Bootland

2. Uwe Krupp

3. Bob Rouse

4. Tim Taylor

5. Mike Ramsey

6. Maxim Kuznetsov

7. Boyd Devereaux

8. Jesse Wallin

9. Dmitry Bykov

10. Darryl Laplante

That is just plain ridiculous that Bob Rouse was put on that list

[norrisnick 1]

Stevie was the foundation that led up to the Cups in 97/98...Without Stevie changing his game (courtesy of Scotty Bowman wanting Steve to play a solid defensive role), and leading the way by example - there's the possibility of guys like Feds/Lids not playing the way they did/do today.

I agree with DOGGY in that the talent we had in 2002 probably would've been enough to have won the Cup without our beloved Captain.

Fedorov and Lidstrom didn't have to change a thing. Sergei was drafted as a defensive center. That he had offensive ability was a very welcome bonus. Over in Russia and the WJC Sergei was the defensive conscience for Pavel Bure and Alexander Mogilny. His responsible play let those two roam free. Sergei was the Selke runner-up before Bowman came to Detroit. And his Hart/Pearson/Selke season in '94 was before the grand shake-up by Bowman as well. Nick was solid from the get go as well.

How in the world can you guys be that adamant about Stevie's ranking and then run with the absurdity that we win in '02 without him? Without Stevie we don't get out of the 1st round.

[norrisnick 1]

This thread is unbelievable. Half of you can't even spell is ******* name. Guess it's too much to ask that you'd be aware of his importance.

[#19=Legend 29]

It kinda blows my mind that stevie is not on top of everyones list. Now Lidstrom is a very good argument with this past 08 season, But some of you actually have Feds above Steve Yzerman.

And TBH if you were to say best players in the NHL over the past fifteen years, Yzerman could very well top many peoples list.

[eva unit zero 271]

...I would have to put Ray Sheppard in their somewhere, he was a 50 goal scorer here...

...problem is their are TOO many great Red Wings of the past 15 years! Ciccarelli is another one. Sure I know you are just looking for the top 10, but I think for offensive numbers, Ray Sheppard should be there. Maybe omit Draper, put him at 11 or 12...

...and as much as well ALL love Vladdy and have an emotional spot for him in our hearts, I think Larry Murphy would rank in the top 10 Red Wings before Vladdy (in comapring D-Men.)

1. Yzerman

2. Lidstrom

3. Fedorov

4. Shanahan

5. Osgood

6. Zetterberg

7. Datsyuk

8. Murphy

9. Doug Brown

10. Holmstrom

...it's tough to rank 10, if you go by all your requirements sure it's a little easier because of some of the players longevity, but just as important Drapers defensive skills were imparative to this teams success, so was Brett Hull's and Luc Robitaille's offensive skills, along with Ray Sheppard. Now if you factor in JUST the playoffs, then you get a whole new list because you'd have to add McCarty with is knack for scoring in the playoffs, it is so difficult, so I went with just general production and importance regular season and playoff...

(11. Ciccarelli 12. Sheppard 13. Larionov 14. Kozlov 15, 16, 17, 18... SHEESH! SEE WHAT I MEAN! )

How do you seriously rank Ciccarelli above Sheppard? Ciccarelli and Sheppard played together in Detroit for Ciccarelli's entire tenure. Sheppard scored the equivalent of two 50-goal seasons and one 30-goal season during that period. Ciccarelli had one 40 goal season, and that was with Steve Yzerman feeding him in a year when Yzerman finished fourth in scoring.

As far as a list, let's consider players who were with the team for multiple years during this period, and were considered top players at their position for multiple seasons during this period. That brings up:

Forwards: Steve Yzerman, Sergei Fedorov, Brendan Shanahan, Vyacheslav Kozlov, Keith Primeau, Ray Sheppard, Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk

Defensemen: Paul Coffey, Nicklas Lidstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov, Larry Murphy, Chris Chelios, Mathieu Schneider

Goaltenders: Mike Vernon, Chris Osgood, Dominik Hasek

Now let's think about that top ten. We'll assume it to be the 'top half' of an All-Star team; the top-six forwards, top-three defensemen, and top goaltender from the era, just to fairly distribute the positions.

So we need to figure out who those are.

At forward, we can cut off Primeau and Kozlov, because they were good players but they were always 'support' players and were never key cogs. Sheppard was the team's top goal scorer at one point. Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk are all obviously included.

On defense, Lidstrom is a lock. Murphy and Schneider are the first cuts as they were never finalists in Norris voting as a Wing, merely 'top ten' types. That leaves us deciding between Coffey, Konstantinov, and Chelios. Chelios is the only one of the three who I did not consider the best defenseman in the NHL as a Red Wing; however, this is due more to the dominance of teammate Lidstrom. I cut Coffey from the list.

In goal, Osgood is the only one who is even close to consideration as far as jersey retirement. This alone is enough to push him beyond the other two in this discussion.

My list goes as such. Vladdy would be higher if he had played a full career; likely the #2 spot.

Yzerman

Lidstrom

Fedorov

Konstantinov

Osgood

Shanahan

Zetterberg

Datsyuk

Chelios

Sheppard

[Yzerfan1999 81]

How do you seriously rank Ciccarelli above Sheppard? Ciccarelli and Sheppard played together in Detroit for Ciccarelli's entire tenure. Sheppard scored the equivalent of two 50-goal seasons and one 30-goal season during that period. Ciccarelli had one 40 goal season, and that was with Steve Yzerman feeding him in a year when Yzerman finished fourth in scoring.

As far as a list, let's consider players who were with the team for multiple years during this period, and were considered top players at their position for multiple seasons during this period. That brings up:

Forwards: Steve Yzerman, Sergei Fedorov, Brendan Shanahan, Vyacheslav Kozlov, Keith Primeau, Ray Sheppard, Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk

Defensemen: Paul Coffey, Nicklas Lidstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov, Larry Murphy, Chris Chelios, Mathieu Schneider

Goaltenders: Mike Vernon, Chris Osgood, Dominik Hasek

Now let's think about that top ten. We'll assume it to be the 'top half' of an All-Star team; the top-six forwards, top-three defensemen, and top goaltender from the era, just to fairly distribute the positions.

So we need to figure out who those are.

At forward, we can cut off Primeau and Kozlov, because they were good players but they were always 'support' players and were never key cogs. Sheppard was the team's top goal scorer at one point. Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk are all obviously included.

On defense, Lidstrom is a lock. Murphy and Schneider are the first cuts as they were never finalists in Norris voting as a Wing, merely 'top ten' types. That leaves us deciding between Coffey, Konstantinov, and Chelios. Chelios is the only one of the three who I did not consider the best defenseman in the NHL as a Red Wing; however, this is due more to the dominance of teammate Lidstrom. I cut Coffey from the list.

In goal, Osgood is the only one who is even close to consideration as far as jersey retirement. This alone is enough to push him beyond the other two in this discussion.

My list goes as such. Vladdy would be higher if he had played a full career; likely the #2 spot.

Yzerman

Lidstrom

Fedorov

Konstantinov

Osgood

Shanahan

Zetterberg

Datsyuk

Chelios

Sheppard

Not a bad list...not bad at all. Even though mine differs, I would not contest that list all that much.

[betterREDthandead 58]

1. Yzerman

2. Lidstrom

3. Fedorov

4. Shanahan

5. Osgood

6. Holmstrom

7. Larionov

8. McCarty

9. Datsyuk

10. Draper

Now I will go back and read the thread, now that I've given my list. I see this as more of a lifetime achievement thing, so, more points for making a long-term contribution (Draper) than for being a superstar for a few more recent years in the short-term (Hasek, Zetterberg.)

The three that just missed the cut were Zetterberg, Maltby, and Kozlov.

[Booster313 138]

Fedorov and Lidstrom didn't have to change a thing. Sergei was drafted as a defensive center. That he had offensive ability was a very welcome bonus. Over in Russia and the WJC Sergei was the defensive conscience for Pavel Bure and Alexander Mogilny. His responsible play let those two roam free. Sergei was the Selke runner-up before Bowman came to Detroit. And his Hart/Pearson/Selke season in '94 was before the grand shake-up by Bowman as well. Nick was solid from the get go as well.

How in the world can you guys be that adamant about Stevie's ranking and then run with the absurdity that we win in '02 without him? Without Stevie we don't get out of the 1st round.

Agreed...to a point. What made Sergei was his elite skating ability. He was a strong player (hard to move off the puck and won face-offs due to that asset.) and he could skate as well as anyone in the league if not better. We had a pretty strong shot but wasn't all that accurate and he wasn't a great stick handler either. He created chances by overpowering and out skating opponents. All that being said he is still in the top three of Wings over the last 15...Z and D may eventually surpass those rankings but for now Sergei (and his debt) are safe.

Edited July 17, 2008 by Booster313

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Federov might not be, but Fedorov certainly is.

As for the Lidstrom/Yzerman thing, you can't look at Stevie's full body of work. Last 15 years. There is no question that over that span that Lidstrom was more instrumental to our success than Stevie. Stevie was the heart and soul, but Lidstrom was the foundation of everything.

I assume you meant Federov might not be, but Lidstrom certainly is?

Like I said earlier, I acknowledge that an argument can be made for Lids being the best Wing over the last 15 years, and I think its close between the two, but I can't put Lids above Yzerman simply because of his Steve's heart, soul AND ability, combined with the fact that he captained the Wings to three cups, as opposed to Lidstrom having 1 with the 'C' thus far. Don't forget, Yzerman won the Conn Smythe in 98 and led the Wings in playoff scoring in 2002, when Lids won it.

Of course that could all change, but I think before this season, it was a lot harder to make the argument that Lids has been a better Wing then Yzerman for the last 15 years. This cup brings them closer, but IMO Yzerman still holds the spot as #1. Call it sentimental, but I feel like overall, Yzerman was more of a fan favourite as well. Its hard not to think of the Detroit Red Wings of the last 15-20 years an not think of Steve Yzerman first and foremost.

[DraperFan MN 0]

The fact we can have this thread, debate, and have a VERY difficult time with this topic shows how spoiled we are....anyway, here I go:

1. Yzerman

2. Lidstrom

3. Fedorov

4. Osgood

5. Shanahan

6. Draper

7. Datsyuk

8. Zetterberg

9. Holmstrom

10. Larionov

Again, like others here, I think Dats and Z will rocket up this list.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I assume you meant Federov might not be, but Lidstrom certainly is?

he's just correcting your spelling: Fedorov.

[Booster313 138]

For the record.

1. Lidstrom

2. Yzerman

3. Fedorov

4. Shanahan

5. Larionov

6. Datsyuk

7.Zetterberg

8.Osgood

9. Hasek

10. Draper

[union drone 0]

How do you seriously rank Ciccarelli above Sheppard? Ciccarelli and Sheppard played together in Detroit for Ciccarelli's entire tenure. Sheppard scored the equivalent of two 50-goal seasons and one 30-goal season during that period. Ciccarelli had one 40 goal season, and that was with Steve Yzerman feeding him in a year when Yzerman finished fourth in scoring.

As far as a list, let's consider players who were with the team for multiple years during this period, and were considered top players at their position for multiple seasons during this period. That brings up:

Forwards: Steve Yzerman, Sergei Fedorov, Brendan Shanahan, Vyacheslav Kozlov, Keith Primeau, Ray Sheppard, Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk

Defensemen: Paul Coffey, Nicklas Lidstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov, Larry Murphy, Chris Chelios, Mathieu Schneider

Goaltenders: Mike Vernon, Chris Osgood, Dominik Hasek

Now let's think about that top ten. We'll assume it to be the 'top half' of an All-Star team; the top-six forwards, top-three defensemen, and top goaltender from the era, just to fairly distribute the positions.

So we need to figure out who those are.

At forward, we can cut off Primeau and Kozlov, because they were good players but they were always 'support' players and were never key cogs. Sheppard was the team's top goal scorer at one point. Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk are all obviously included.

On defense, Lidstrom is a lock. Murphy and Schneider are the first cuts as they were never finalists in Norris voting as a Wing, merely 'top ten' types. That leaves us deciding between Coffey, Konstantinov, and Chelios. Chelios is the only one of the three who I did not consider the best defenseman in the NHL as a Red Wing; however, this is due more to the dominance of teammate Lidstrom. I cut Coffey from the list.

In goal, Osgood is the only one who is even close to consideration as far as jersey retirement. This alone is enough to push him beyond the other two in this discussion.

My list goes as such. Vladdy would be higher if he had played a full career; likely the #2 spot.

Yzerman

Lidstrom

Fedorov

Konstantinov

Osgood

Shanahan

Zetterberg

Datsyuk

Chelios

Sheppard

In my humble opinion, Konstantinov and Sheppard don't even get a sniff of this top ten list.

As for Shep... He was probably the most one-dimensional top six forward the Wings have had in the last 15 years. He had a great shot and nothing else. His skating ability probably rivals some of the NHL's worst. He had almost no playmaking ability. He was irrelevant defensively. He was not gritty or physical at all. He didn't bring any intangibles. Oh, yeah, but he scored 50 goals in a high scoring era with one of either of two amazing set up men at his side (either Feds or Yzerman, depending on which season). Was he instrumental in winning a cup? Hell, no.

As for Vladdy... I love the guy. Maybe he gets a sentimental (but perhaps undeserved) #10 for what might have been, but there were others who played more and were at least equally instrumental in the Wings' success. If he had played on more than one cup team, then you have an argument. I have a hard time, however, ranking him above guys that were good players for more seasons and were in key roles on multiple cup teams.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

he's just correcting your spelling: Fedorov.

Shows my attention to detail. My bad!

[Yzerfan1999 81]

This thread is unbelievable. Half of you can't even spell is ******* name. Guess it's too much to ask that you'd be aware of his importance.

He was quickly brushed aside after leaving in 2003. But I am sorry for spelling it wrong, did not need to offend.

I'll admit I have a bias against the guy - not for leaving in 2003, I couldn't have cared less when that happened. I always thought it he was below Yzerman, Shanahan, and Lidstrom on the importance pillar.

He had so much natural talent, but it always seemed to me like he took nights off. He didn't have as much passion for the game as Yzerman or Shanahan. If he did, he would have been a much better player for a lot longer.

[union drone 0]

He had so much natural talent, but it always seemed to me like he took nights off. He didn't have as much passion for the game as Yzerman or Shanahan. If he did, he would have been a much better player for a lot longer.

Shanny was pretty adept at finding ways to take nights off as well...

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Just thinking back to the early/mid 1990's, & how much flack/skepticism Stevie was getting from the media (even more so when we lost to NJ in 1995)...Anyone else remember the rumors of Stevie heading off to Ottawa for Yashin?

Throughout all of this Stevie kept his poise/class, & is yet another reason why he's #1 on my list.

That was a scary time. I don't even want to imagine what position the Wings would be in today if that happened...

[Doggy 130]

Fedorov and Lidstrom didn't have to change a thing. Sergei was drafted as a defensive center. That he had offensive ability was a very welcome bonus. Over in Russia and the WJC Sergei was the defensive conscience for Pavel Bure and Alexander Mogilny. His responsible play let those two roam free. Sergei was the Selke runner-up before Bowman came to Detroit. And his Hart/Pearson/Selke season in '94 was before the grand shake-up by Bowman as well. Nick was solid from the get go as well.

How in the world can you guys be that adamant about Stevie's ranking and then run with the absurdity that we win in '02 without him? Without Stevie we don't get out of the 1st round.

You need to settle down there, boy. You might notice I actually had Yzerman at #2. You're putting words in my mouth and getting all pissy about it. Forget it. I just thought you were giving the championship credit to Lidstrom and Fedorov. Looking back, I probably shouldn't have interpreted it that way. This is all very arguable and pointless to get mad about. I stand by what I said though.

[BeeRYCE 2]

My original list put Stevie at #1, and having debates of whether or not to put Lidstrom at #1. Hell, I had a tough time thinking about Sergei. My list was compiled quickly, and making this thread was to see everyone else's thoughts. I could almost put Stevie, Lidstrom, and Fedorov at 1a, 1b, and 1c respectively.

Debating Fedorov over Stevie is not that harsh of a debate... It is debatable. I almost feel bad for norrisnick and the army sworming against him over this argument. If you were to debate Yzerman in his prime and Fedorov in his prime, then we'd have no question in favour of Stevie.

Let's cut to the chase and pull out some evaunitzero esque stats out of our ass...

Over the last 15 years with the Wings (hopefully calculated correctly):

Sergei - 751 GP, 789 Points... 2 Selkes, 1 Pearson, 1 Hart, 3 Cups, and I'd say the (unofficial) MVP of the '97 cup.

Stevie - 841 GP, 852 Points... 1 Conn Smythe, 1 Selke, 3 Cups, and the best forward of the '02 cup.

That's how down to the wire it is... Sergei had a better point per game average throughout that time, and accomplished more in terms of awards while being looked to as the go to guy on the point sometimes. Fedorov's attributes over Stevie was more raw skill, better defensive ability, more point production, and more league wide accomplishments... Stevie on the other hand, had leadership, overall more important part of the 3 cups, and almost 100 more games over Sergei.

So, it is a legitimate debate.

[Anomalously 0]

He had so much natural talent, but it always seemed to me like he took nights off. He didn't have as much passion for the game as Yzerman or Shanahan. If he did, he would have been a much better player for a lot longer.

He scored 20 points in 4 consecutive playoffs (95, 96, 97, 98) and 19 in 2002. If you look at the production those years, if you look at talent, Fedorov probably wins it (Yzerman wasn't a slouch either). Fedorov was always a playoff performer, always played when it mattered.

norrisnick -- to say we wouldn't get out of the first round in 2002 without Yzerman is silly. The reason [as I see it] Detroit had troubles in the first round was because the Wings locked up the President's Trophy in March and didn't need to have that drive down the stretch. That team was talented enough to win, just as the team this year was talented enough to win without Yzerman. In 97, 98, we probably needed Yzerman, Fedorov, and Lidstrom to win those.

Last, betterREDthandead, it is hard to argue that Datsyuk's contributions in 2002 make him so much worthy to be above Draper's "long-term contribution" but Z can't make the list. Z has consistently been better in the playoffs (2 fewer points in 20 fewer games), just as good defensively, with pretty much equitable PPG in the regular season. I'd like to hear your rationale.

[pavyaz19 1]

Lidstrom above Yzerman!?!?!? you guys are completely insane. how quickly you forget.

[pavyaz19 1]

Federov might not be, but Fedorov certainly is.

As for the Lidstrom/Yzerman thing, you can't look at Stevie's full body of work. Last 15 years. There is no question that over that span that Lidstrom was more instrumental to our success than Stevie. Stevie was the heart and soul, but Lidstrom was the foundation of everything.

It must be hard for you to speak with your lips glued to Lidstrom's ass. Give me a freaking break.

[GetYourRedOn! 0]

1. Lidstrom

2. Yzerman

3. Fedorov

4. Shanahan

5. Osgood

6. Zetterberg

7. Datsyuk

8. Draper

9. Hasek

10. McCarty, or Holmstrom