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Jiri Hudler

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Doggy, he was talking about players in the game who throw tantrums after clean hits, not message board posters.

Thanks Heaton. Sorry NN. I misunderstood. Seriously, I apologise.

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I think both sides have made valid points and I guess somewhat on the fence here but you lost me just before. I didn't see any tantrums - I just saw someone losing an argument and not being willing to concede any ground. It was a little childish for you. Nevertheless, unless I'm mistaken your question is not what this discussion is about.

Heater has my back on the first part.

For the second, you'd think that isn't what the discussion is about but if you look closely that's exactly it. We've added Hossa. Drake retired. And Mac and Downey aren't jumping on a two-way offer. More than a few people have bemoaned the notion that we're going all skill and no punch and that we'll be worse off for it. They're scared about our chances to repeat if we don't have a guy like Mac or Downey around.

If you boil it down my question is exactly their thought process. We add Hossa and their concern is losing a part-time 4th line fighter. They think we're a worse team adding Hossa and losing Downey.

That's insane.

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Heater has my back on the first part.

For the second, you'd think that isn't what the discussion is about but if you look closely that's exactly it. We've added Hossa. Drake retired. And Mac and Downey aren't jumping on a two-way offer. More than a few people have bemoaned the notion that we're going all skill and no punch and that we'll be worse off for it. They're scared about our chances to repeat if we don't have a guy like Mac or Downey around.

If you boil it down my question is exactly their thought process. We add Hossa and their concern is losing a part-time 4th line fighter. They think we're a worse team adding Hossa and losing Downey.

That's insane.

I think those people would prefer to see someone much less skilled than Hossa go in favour of Downey.

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You can watch hockey?

Answering for a clean hit bugs the hell out of me. Sack up and take it like a man. Quit throwing tantrums left and right like a 5 year old. May as well start picking fights with guys that score.

I can agree with that in terms of actually fighting over a clean hit. But a lot of Kronwall's hits are less than squeaky clean.

And honestly many of the great players were known for not taking kindly to hits, even clean ones. Messier was legendary for it. And I don't know how many times over the years I'd watched Yzerman slash a guy after a clean hit.

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And I don't know how many times over the years I'd watched Yzerman slash a guy after a clean hit.

That I'm fine with, hell, teach Kronwall a lesson by trying to hit him or a different Red Wing. Personally I don't think anything will be taught to Kronwall by someone trying to fight him.

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Heater has my back on the first part.

For the second, you'd think that isn't what the discussion is about but if you look closely that's exactly it. We've added Hossa. Drake retired. And Mac and Downey aren't jumping on a two-way offer. More than a few people have bemoaned the notion that we're going all skill and no punch and that we'll be worse off for it. They're scared about our chances to repeat if we don't have a guy like Mac or Downey around.

If you boil it down my question is exactly their thought process. We add Hossa and their concern is losing a part-time 4th line fighter. They think we're a worse team adding Hossa and losing Downey.

That's insane.

Who has said that??? :blink:

We're clearly a better team with Hossa. But it isn't an either or situation. It's not like Hossa is taking Drake's spot in the lineup. There's going to be a lot of juggling going on.

And we do need someone to help take the physical role Drake, Downey, and Mac played last year. Whether it's those guys or someone else, I don't really care.

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And we do need someone to help take the physical role Drake, Downey, and Mac played last year. Whether it's those guys or someone else, I don't really care.

That's Kopecky or Helm.

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Who has said that??? :blink:

We're clearly a better team with Hossa. But it isn't an either or situation. It's not like Hossa is taking Drake's spot in the lineup. There's going to be a lot of juggling going on.

And we do need someone to help take the physical role Drake, Downey, and Mac played last year. Whether it's those guys or someone else, I don't really care.

We've added Hossa and for the sake of the argument Downey, Mac, or someone of their ilk is not signed and/or doesn't play more than 10 games.

Are we better or worse off than last year?

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That's Kopecky or Helm.

But it's not really.

I like those guys, but Helm doesn't bring what those guys do. He's not big and as far as I know, doesn't fight. Kopecky is bigger, but really doesn't bring those qualities either. Neither one are particularly devastating hitters, though Kopecky has the potential if he can bulk up.

And I can't imagine either one of those guys squaring up with Parros or Fedoruk. Or even Mayers or Ott, who are some of the guys on Downey and Drake's fight card this past season.

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We've added Hossa and for the sake of the argument Downey, Mac, or someone of their ilk is not signed and/or doesn't play more than 10 games.

Are we better or worse off than last year?

We're a more talented team for sure. But again, you're linking two events that have nothing really to do with each other.

And not to drag this further off topic, I don't get why so many people have such a problem with a guy like Downey or Mac who would take up a roster spot and play limited minutes, but most seem to welcome back Chelios with open arms to do the same thing.

Sure Chelios was a better hockey player, but he's clearly on the decline and we have a backlog of kids who could take his spot. Particularly when you consider how rock solid our top four is.

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But it's not really.

I like those guys, but Helm doesn't bring what those guys do. He's not big and as far as I know, doesn't fight. Kopecky is bigger, but really doesn't bring those qualities either. Neither one are particularly devastating hitters, though Kopecky has the potential if he can bulk up.

And I can't imagine either one of those guys squaring up with Parros or Fedoruk. Or even Mayers or Ott, who are some of the guys on Downey and Drake's fight card this past season.

You said the "physical" role, both those guys will do what Drake did during the regular season. Drake stepped up his game big time in the playoffs, but during the regular season he was nothing to write home about. McCarty is all but signed, as he said today. I don't see any room for another guy like him especially at the expense of one our younger players. If Downey AND McCarty are signed I can't see any situation where they both play in the same game, there just isn't that many expendable players on this team.

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Guest Crymson
:huh:

If I haven't made it clear by now, there's not point to even answer.

Oh and Mac had only 1 fight because he didn't play that many regular season games. In the playoffs we didn't need fighting because we didn't play any physical, dirty teams who dressed many fighters. For instance, if we played Anaheim, I believe there would have been many more fighting majors and a need for them.

Go and check how many fights Anaheim had in these playoffs or last. You'll find that that answer is nearly zero. Teams don't want to take major penalties of any sort in the playoffs. The playoffs are all business; nobody throws games.

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Go and check how many fights Anaheim had in these playoffs or last. You'll find that that answer is nearly zero. Teams don't want to take major penalties of any sort in the playoffs. The playoffs are all business; nobody throws games.

Heh not to mention go back and look at how many fighting majors there were in all the playoff wars between the Wings and Avs.

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You said the "physical" role, both those guys will do what Drake did during the regular season. Drake stepped up his game big time in the playoffs, but during the regular season he was nothing to write home about. McCarty is all but signed, as he said today. I don't see any room for another guy like him especially at the expense of one our younger players. If Downey AND McCarty are signed I can't see any situation where they both play in the same game, there just isn't that many expendable players on this team.

Agreed. Drake didn't have a great season. But I've not seen Kopecky or Helm throw any hit even approaching some of the ones Drake is capable of.

I hadn't heard that about Mac. That's good news.

Honestly if it's going to be one guy I'd rather go with McCarty and hope that he can get back in shape and closer to form from his previous years with the Wings. If he can get that together, he has much more to offer than Downey, even though Downey's the better fighter.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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We're a more talented team for sure. But again, you're linking two events that have nothing really to do with each other.

And not to drag this further off topic, I don't get why so many people have such a problem with a guy like Downey or Mac who would take up a roster spot and play limited minutes, but most seem to welcome back Chelios with open arms to do the same thing.

Sure Chelios was a better hockey player, but he's clearly on the decline and we have a backlog of kids who could take his spot. Particularly when you consider how rock solid our top four is.

You dodged the question. :sly:

I want no part of Chelios.

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Agreed. Drake didn't have a great season. But I've not seen Kopecky or Helm throw any hit even approaching some of the ones Drake is capable of.

I hadn't heard that about Mac. That's good news.

Honestly if it's going to be one guy I'd rather go with McCarty and hope that he can get back in shape and closer to form from his previous years with the Wings. If he can get that together, he has much more to offer than Downey, even though Downey's the better fighter.

Mac is going to have knock 10 years off to be relevant. I'm not holding my breath. It would be awesome if he could, but he was never mobile to begin with. I really hope people aren't getting their hopes up.

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You dodged the question. :sly:

I want no part of Chelios.

Mainly because I don't think the question is relevant. You're making it an either or issue with Hossa, and it's not.

And I agree about Chelios.

As for Mac, I don't hold out high hopes either. I doubt he'll ever be the Mac of old, but hopefully he'll be better than he was in the playoffs, where he looked very slow and kep taking bad penalties.

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Guest Dump-N-Thump

If we played in the east i dont thnk we would need to have this conversation, but the west is just packed top to bottom with teams that are just waiting to beat us up physicaly

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If we played in the east i dont thnk we would need to have this conversation, but the west is just packed top to bottom with teams that are just waiting to beat us up physicaly

And I guess having guys like Kronwall, Datsyuk, Franzen, Lilja (even stuart at time) doesn't help us in any way when it comes to physicality.

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If we played in the east i dont thnk we would need to have this conversation, but the west is just packed top to bottom with teams that are just waiting to beat us up physicaly

Good luck.

I predict a lot of fighters being scratched in favor of mobility and pucking moving ability when we roll into town.

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Guest Dump-N-Thump
Good luck.

I predict a lot of fighters being scratched in favor of mobility and pucking moving ability when we roll into town.

I dont, i expect teams to dress there tough guys just to make a statement.

They know they cant beat us, So there going to try to get us off our game with physical play. Not saying it'll work..

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I dont, i expect teams to dress there tough guys just to make a statement.

Godard, Parker and Shelley were routinely scratched the past few seasons usually when Downey wasn't in the lineup.

Not always, but pro-actively scratched on more than a few occasions.

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I dont, i expect teams to dress there tough guys just to make a statement.

They know they cant beat us, So there going to try to get us off our game with physical play. Not saying it'll work..

Like NN has said, let them try. This team, as well as its 06-07 incarnation, showed that the rough stuff doesn't rattle it. Remember McLennan? Wings destroyed the Flames in that series. Pronger on Holmstrom? Wings would have won that series were they not limping around on one collective leg. Ian Laperriere in the regular season? Wings obliterated the Avs in the postseason. Roberts on Franzen? Wings spanked the Pens, won the Cup.

This is not a soft team. It amazes me that people -- Wings fans, no less! -- believe that crap.

Grow up.

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Guest Crymson
Heh not to mention go back and look at how many fighting majors there were in all the playoff wars between the Wings and Avs.

That was then; this is now. We have no such rivalry anymore.

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