Jiri Hudler

[norrisnick 1]

That argument is worth s***. We're not a better team because we lost 3 physical players, we're just a better team because we signed Hossa.

So you agree we're a better team. At least we're getting somewhere.

If those guys are so meaningless, how come Babcock and the great Kenny Holland even bothered using them? Why didn't we just replace them the entire season with some euro *******? Why did Holland even use Downey at all? Could it be because he felt there was some need for a physical player that could stand up for his teammates? Or do you have the real answer?

Downey didn't play in the playoffs and if Maltby and Franzen weren't alternating injuries Mac wouldn't have either. Drake secured his spot because Kopecky blew out his knee.

If Downey is so important, why wasn't he out there when the games are important? He's a warm body. Over the course of an 82 game season you're going to need a few extra warm bodies.

[Heaton 1]

They will when they're getting their ass kicked by someone else's fighters.

Kinda hard to keep responding to you when you say things like this. For someone asking other people if they watch hockey or understand history you sure as hell don't know Stuart or Kronwall's history. This isn't the first year they've been physical players, that's who they are, having Downey in our lineup or Parros in theirs isn't going to change how they play.

[Dabura 12,207]

If those guys are so meaningless, how come Babcock and the great Kenny Holland even bothered using them? Why didn't we just replace them the entire season with some euro *******? Why did Holland even use Downey at all? Could it be because he felt there was some need for a physical player that could stand up for his teammates? Or do you have the real answer?

Um, again, no one is saying fighters are completely useless. Well, maybe NN is. Whatever. The point most if not all of us "anti-enforcers" are making is very simple: enforcers aren't terribly important to the Wings. The proof is in the goddamn proverbial pudding: Downey didn't put in a single shift during this past postseason run and Mac played measly minutes in a grinding role, fighting a grand total of once -- and that was a largely meaningless fight. And the Wings won the Stanley Cup. Handily.

The Wings simply do not put a ton of stock in fighters. If this upsets you so much that you feel the need to piss and moan and ***** people out like this, might I suggest supporting, say, the Flyers?

[Dabura 12,207]

They will when they're getting their ass kicked by someone else's fighters.

Kinda like how those Flames kicked their asses in 06-07? And the Sharks in 06-07? The almighty Ducks didn't even kick their asses -- they were begging for divine intervention after being owned 5-0 in their own building. And who could forget the beating the Stars put on 'em this past postseason?

Those Wings -- so soft!

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

im just letting this topic soak in.

im sure alot of your comments will come in handy in when a key player gets pwnt and lgw is an uproar complaining that no one did anything.

and all me gmr uk kp can do is say told yah so

[norrisnick 1]

im just letting this topic soak in.

im sure alot of your comments will come in handy in when a key player gets pwnt and lgw is an uproar complaining that no one did anything.

and all me gmr uk kp can do is say told yah so

I'll be waiting around for your posts as well next spring.

[Dabura 12,207]

Good lawd forget it.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Dabura

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

So you agree we're a better team. At least we're getting somewhere.

Downey didn't play in the playoffs and if Maltby and Franzen weren't alternating injuries Mac wouldn't have either. Drake secured his spot because Kopecky blew out his knee.

If Downey is so important, why wasn't he out there when the games are important? He's a warm body. Over the course of an 82 game season you're going to need a few extra warm bodies.

A warm body? Now you are starting to sound even more ridiculous. Wouldn't Kopecky or Lebda be warm bodies? How about Hudler who Babcock had rotting on the 4th line all year?

There was a reason Downey was on the team, namely because Ken Holland whom you all worship felt that that particular area needed to be addressed. I hope he doesn't change his mind on that, while you seem to think Holland did it for no reason except to add someone to the roster.

Why wouldn't Holland have just inserted a "skilled player" in there if all he cared about was a warm body?

Kinda hard to keep responding to you when you say things like this. For someone asking other people if they watch hockey or understand history you sure as hell don't know Stuart or Kronwall's history. This isn't the first year they've been physical players, that's who they are, having Downey in our lineup or Parros in theirs isn't going to change how they play.

I didn't say they weren't going to be physical again, I just said that other teams were going to kick their asses instead of having Downey or Mac settle those battles for them.

History shows that neither Stuart nor Kronwall are going to drop the gloves.

Um, again, no one is saying fighters are completely useless. Well, maybe NN is. Whatever. The point most if not all of us "anti-enforcers" are making is very simple: enforcers aren't terribly important to the Wings. The proof is in the goddamn proverbial pudding: Downey didn't put in a single shift during this past postseason run and Mac played measly minutes in a grinding role, fighting a grand total of once -- and that was a largely meaningless fight. And the Wings won the Stanley Cup. Handily.

The Wings simply do not put a ton of stock in fighters. If this upsets you so much that you feel the need to piss and moan and ***** people out like this, might I suggest supporting, say, the Flyers?

If I ever for once thought about supporting other teams, I wouldn't be here bitching. Instead I would have cheered for those teams long ago.

However, anyone who knows me here knows that I absolutely and indefinitely despise every other team in the league. I just want us to have more fighters. No need for you to make any absurd suggestions for me.

Maybe you should go cheer for some European league team.

[Dabura 12,207]

I just want us to have more fighters.

Then leave it at that. Enough of this "THIS TEAM'S GONNA GET SMOKED!" nonsense. It's clear that you have a strong opinion. It's also clear that you can't translate this opinion into a cogent argument. So, again, leave it at that.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Kinda like how those Flames kicked their asses in 06-07? And the Sharks in 06-07? The almighty Ducks didn't even kick their asses -- they were begging for divine intervention after being owned 5-0 in their own building. And who could forget the beating the Stars put on 'em this past postseason?

Those Wings -- so soft!

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I mean by "kick our asses".

Cheapshotting our players and beating them up in fights is the equivalent of kicking our asses. And pointing at the scoreboard is not the best form of physical retaliation. I guess we differ in that I want us to retaliate physically as well as on the scoreboard. You're only content with having one.

And what did the Stars ever do that was physical?

[Heaton 1]

I didn't say they weren't going to be physical again, I just said that other teams were going to kick their asses instead of having Downey or Mac settle those battles for them.

History shows that neither Stuart nor Kronwall are going to drop the gloves.

Because no one will challenge them. You honestly think that if McCarty or Downey is scratched and Kronwall lays out say, Corey Perry that Carlyle is going to send out Parros to go after Kronwall? That's not what happens.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Then leave it at that. Enough of this "THIS TEAM'S GONNA GET SMOKED!" nonsense. It's clear that you have a strong opinion. It's also clear that you can't translate this opinion into a cogent argument. So, again, leave it at that.

Where's your cogent argument?

I haven't seen it yet. It must be all in your head, but you just can't get it out even in those half-page posts.

[norrisnick 1]

A warm body? Now you are starting to sound even more ridiculous. Wouldn't Kopecky or Lebda be warm bodies? How about Hudler who Babcock had rotting on the 4th line all year?

There was a reason Downey was on the team, namely because Ken Holland whom you all worship felt that that particular area needed to be addressed. I hope he doesn't change his mind on that, while you seem to think Holland did it for no reason except to add someone to the roster.

Why wouldn't Holland have just inserted a "skilled player" in there if all he cared about was a warm body?

I didn't say they weren't going to be physical again, I just said that other teams were going to kick their asses instead of having Downey or Mac settle those battles for them.

History shows that neither Stuart nor Kronwall are going to drop the gloves.

If I ever for once thought about supporting other teams, I wouldn't be here bitching. Instead I would have cheered for those teams long ago.

However, anyone who knows me here knows that I absolutely and indefinitely despise every other team in the league. I just want us to have more fighters. No need for you to make any absurd suggestions for me.

Maybe you should go cheer for some European league team.

Could you point to a single battle that Downey or Mac fought specifically for Kronwall after he lit up an opposing player? I'm drawing a blank...

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Because no one will challenge them. You honestly think that if McCarty or Downey is scratched and Kronwall lays out say, Corey Perry that Carlyle is going to send out Parros to go after Kronwall? That's not what happens.

It happened when Matt Walker went after Franzen when he hit Jackman.

Or did you forget that already?

[Heaton 1]

It happened when Matt Walker went after Franzen when he hit Jackman.

Or did you forget that already?

And? Walker dusting the dirt off of Franzen's back didn't exactly change anything. Jackman had the concussion.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Could you point to a single battle that Downey or Mac fought specifically for Kronwall after he lit up an opposing player? I'm drawing a blank...

The point I was making is that if teams have no enforcers to fight against on the other side, they're going to start picking on non-fighters to fight.

I don't want to see our skilled players be asked to do more than what they're capable of.

[Dabura 12,207]

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I mean by "kick our asses".

No, I'm understanding perfectly well. In much the same way as you're predicting the Wings will get beaten up if they don't dress, say, Aaron Downey, everyone and his mom was saying the Flames -- and then, later, the Sharks, and then, later, the Ducks -- were going to wreak all kinds of violent havoc on the Wings.

But it never really happened. If anything, the Wings physically outplayed those teams; they were very much the tougher team in those two matchups, maybe not on paper (no Donald Brashear? Oh noes!), but certainly on the ice.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

And? Walker dusting the dirt off of Franzen's back didn't exactly change anything. Jackman had the concussion.

We're lucky Franzen didn't get a concussion.

That's what I don't want to see happen and it easily could have.

[Heaton 1]

We're lucky Franzen didn't get a concussion.

That's what I don't want to see happen and it easily could have.

I'm not sure you understand the situation during that hit. Downey doesn't play with Franzen, how will Downey or Mac or both being dressed help that situation if they're not even on the ice? Is there some hockey code I don't know about where Walker would've politely waited for Downey or McCarty's next shift to take our his frustration?

Franzen was in no danger during that altercation.

[Dabura 12,207]

Dear Mike Babcock,

Mule could've gotten a concussion that one time.

Trade Sammy and Hudler and dress Downey for the playoffs. thx

Love,

God

[norrisnick 1]

The point I was making is that if teams have no enforcers to fight against on the other side, they're going to start picking on non-fighters to fight.

I don't want to see our skilled players be asked to do more than what they're capable of.

Cover up and score on the PP. Teams will learn in a hurry that that is a bad strategy.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I'm not sure you understand the situation during that hit. Downey doesn't play with Franzen, how will Downey or Mac or both being dressed help that situation if they're not even on the ice? Is there some hockey code I don't know about where Walker would've politely waited for Downey or McCarty's next shift to take our his frustration?

Franzen was in no danger during that altercation.

Yes there is.

Cover up and score on the PP. Teams will learn in a hurry that that is a bad strategy.

You must be a big Peter Forsberg fan. Cover up?

[Heaton 1]

Yes there is.

Then he broke the code since Downey was playing that game.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Then he broke the code since Downey was playing that game.

Which is a knock on Downey if he did indeed play in that game, although the way I remember it, he played in the next game and not that one.

[Heaton 1]

Which is a knock on Downey if he did indeed play in that game, although the way I remember it, he played in the next game and not that one.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore?gid=2007122619

Not sure how it's a knock on Downey. You're saying he should've responded to Walker responding to Jackman? Then what, does Brewer respond for Downey responding to Walker? When does it end? It doesn't happen like you envision it.