So, what do we say about Kronwall now?

[VM1138 1,921]

Actually, Kronwall shot it at the appropriate angle that would usually put the puck in the corner but Adam Hall skated by at the exact second and the puck banked in off of him and into the net. No reason to kill him on that, probably his only real mess up of the finals.

Once the passion of the moment wears off, it's obviosu Kronner did not score on our own goal. The angle he was shooting at was nowhere near the inside of the net. It ricocheted. I don't even think Lidstrom would have done that play any better. Sometimes freak accidents happen and that was one of them.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

You use your little homer colored glasses to see the world any way you want, but he f'cked up big time on that play. It was an unacceptable error in any playoff game let alone a SCF.

I'll take off my homer glasses if you put on some actual glasses and watch what really happened.

[Louisville 112]

You use your little homer colored glasses to see the world any way you want, but he f'cked up big time on that play. It was an unacceptable error in any playoff game let alone a SCF.

The only thing worse than a homer is someone who gets on a players case over the stupidest little s***. It was still a fluke mistake, which didn't even have a barring on the outcome of the series anyway.

[Shutemdown 23]

It's freaking 6 time Norris Lidstrom. Of course his role is going to be huge to fill.

If anyone's got any doubts that Lidstrom's absence will be felt can think back to February when he was injured and look at our stunning record.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

If anyone's got any doubts that Lidstrom's absence will be felt can think back to February when he was injured and look at our stunning record.

While I completely agree that Lidstrom's abscense will be felt noticeably, don't you think the other injuries on the blue line had plenty to do with that record as well?

Lidstrom played in the Wings lineup *through* February 18th and the Wings lost plenty in that time. That's not a shot at Lids, more so the ridiculous amount of injuries on the blue line, which was the culprit for all those lost games.

[Chunkylover 26]

If anyone's got any doubts that Lidstrom's absence will be felt can think back to February when he was injured and look at our stunning record.

I realize there are a few different discussions going on but I think some of the people defending Kronner inadvertently scoring off Hall's skate support my point.

I never said anything stupid like "we don't need Nick Lidstrom", in fact I actually pointed out that I wasn't talking about Lidstrom.

I was talking about Kronwall and anticipating that it is pretty likely he will get better in a two years. At that point, we will have two more years with Stuart, three more with Rafalski, and another stud Swede defenseman in Ericsson likely rounding out our top four. With that in mind, and the improbability that Detroit will lose the team defensive game, will we really be that bad off in our own end?

Edited August 7, 2008 by Chunkylover

[Doggy 130]

You use your little homer colored glasses to see the world any way you want, but he f'cked up big time on that play. It was an unacceptable error in any playoff game let alone a SCF.

[Guest Crymson]

You use your little homer colored glasses to see the world any way you want, but he f'cked up big time on that play. It was an unacceptable error in any playoff game let alone a SCF.

Yet another 'fan' who will vehemently take any opportunity to down a player rather than praise him, then argue passionately against the player when others defend him. I don't get it.

Edited August 10, 2008 by Crymson

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Kronwall did exactly what he was supposed to do by trying to get the puck into the corner, & outta the front of the net...Puck just happened to riccochet off a Pens player skate as he went by - $hit happens.

Kronner is arguably turning out to be our 2nd best Dman on the team. All he needs to do is just stay healthy.

I'll second that. He was better than Rafalski in the playoffs, IMO. If that carries through, hes golden.

[Zion 93]

He was amazing this playoffs. When Babs says that he feels the Wings were a few healthy defensemen from a Stanley Cup last year, I believe it.

Here's to hoping Kronner continues to get better, and stays healthy.

[Earthhuman 8]

I'll second that. He was better than Rafalski in the playoffs, IMO. If that carries through, hes golden.

I wouldn't rank one over the other. Kronwall overachieved, maybe more than even god expected. He looks that much better. Rafalski was still an elite defenseman, put together some pretty good stats, and some of the complaints about him in the season disappeared (slow, bad first passes). He has seen plenty of playoff games, I think it showed.

If he carries through with the way he played to next year, we will have three defensemen who should be #1 defensemen.

[Heaton 1]

I wouldn't rank one over the other. Kronwall overachieved, maybe more than even god expected.

Kronwall played the exact same way that he's played on every other big stage. From the time in the season that Babcock challenged Kronwall to start shooting more and be more aggressive Kronwall was a different player. I think we all saw his stickwork improving and his consistentcy getting better once his confidence was at its highest.

He looks that much better. Rafalski was still an elite defenseman, put together some pretty good stats, and some of the complaints about him in the season disappeared (slow, bad first passes). He has seen plenty of playoff games, I think it showed.

If he carries through with the way he played to next year, we will have three defensemen who should be #1 defensemen.

Rafalski also was injured pretty badly during the playoffs. He admitted quickly after that he wasn't anywhere near close to 100% and felt like it was really affecting him. With that said, he was still great in the playoffs.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You use your little homer colored glasses to see the world any way you want, but he f'cked up big time on that play. It was an unacceptable error in any playoff game let alone a SCF.

Krowall was clearing the puck into the corner when it deflected off Hall, and off the goalpost, and into the goal. If he would've tried to clear it in traffic around the middle of the ice, LGW would have been roasting him for not playing smart hockey by clearing it into the middle in traffic instead of the side boards like you should. Kronwall was doing the right thing by thinking of clearing it to the side there. A deflection occured. It happens in hockey.

With that in mind, let me ask you this... When the inital person who shoots a slapshot or wrister puts it on goal, but it gets deflected into the goal, has that inital shooter f'ed up? What about when people who deflect shots miss the net?

[Dabura 12,207]

With that in mind, let me ask you this... When the inital person who shoots a slapshot or wrister puts it on goal, but it gets deflected into the goal, has that inital shooter f'ed up?

Not really comparable; in that situation, you're deliberately aiming for the goal -- specifically, with the intent of putting the puck in the net. Kind of a moot point, though.

Anyhow, I don't remember the "Kronwall goal" in great detail, but I do remember thinking, "Poor decision." That, in my mind, is probably the biggest knock against him at this point in his career (aside from injury problems): decision-making. But it'll improve with time.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Not really comparable; in that situation, you're deliberately aiming for the goal -- specifically, with the intent of putting the puck in the net. Kind of a moot point, though.

Yeah I know. I was just trying to show that the poster wanting to roast Kronwall's body parts for an accidental deflection was not really justified with another out-of-whack comparison. Krownall intended (key word: intended ) to put the puck out of danger into the corners like you should do during that sequence of plays. But unfortuantely it got deflected on goal and in by the other team. And while I'm no mind reader, I highly doubt Adam Hall was intentionally thinking, "I'm going to just deflect this puck off my skate into the net" especially when it looked like he was skating away from the goal. Clear the puck towards the corner 19 more times out of 20 like Krownall did and it probably just goes to the corner. You have a better chance of getting scored upon if you attempt to clear the puck with traffic in the middle of the ice vs. the corners or side-boards.

Anyhow, I don't remember the "Kronwall goal" in great detail, but I do remember thinking, "Poor decision." That, in my mind, is probably the biggest knock against him at this point in his career (aside from injury problems): decision-making. But it'll improve with time.

Krowall has displayed "poor decision" making in the past, but that one was not a poor one, as explained above. His only options were to clear to the corner with his forehand or blindly backhand it towards the middle of the offensive zone. Goofy deflections. It happens sometimes in hockey and it is something you have zero control over.

[Dabura 12,207]

Eh, I'm not a fan of zero control hockey. If you have the puck in front of your net, and a second later it's in the back of your net, you screwed up. I'm not saying Kronner should be roasted, just that it's a learning experience.

[jason_0931 0]

I realize there are a few different discussions going on but I think some of the people defending Kronner inadvertently scoring off Hall's skate support my point.

I never said anything stupid like "we don't need Nick Lidstrom", in fact I actually pointed out that I wasn't talking about Lidstrom.

I was talking about Kronwall and anticipating that it is pretty likely he will get better in a two years. At that point, we will have two more years with Stuart, three more with Rafalski, and another stud Swede defenseman in Ericsson likely rounding out our top four. With that in mind, and the improbability that Detroit will lose the team defensive game, will we really be that bad off in our own end?

I could care less about that play. IMO the puck getting into the net was not solely on the shoulders of Kronwall. Besides it is not like Lidstrom or Chellios has never had the puck go off of themselves and into the net. It is called bounces not going your way.

Having said that, I am NOT changing my mind about trading Kronwall. He has had one good year, he will get lots of trade value and we have other talent in the minors waiting for a chance, we could loose for nothing in return. Kronwall is not the end all be all, just another role player.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

He started off terrible, and became great.

/end

[Dabura 12,207]

Kronwall is not the end all be all, just another role player.

The Wings have the best blue line in the league. Right now, Kronwall is the #3 guy on that blue line and is coming off a strong postseason showing. In a couple of seasons, when Rafalski's age and Kronwall's experience both show, he'll be the #2 guy. When Nick retires, he'll be counted on to account for many of the lost minutes, possibly becoming the official #1. Point being, "just another role player" my ass.

Moreover, if the Wings were to part ways with Kronwall right now, they wouldn't be able to fill the void with anyone in the current pipeline. Stuart would assume the role of #3, but who would he be paired with? Who in the Wings' system is currently capable of stepping right into that second pairing and doing a better job than Kronwall? Lilja or Lebda? Not bloody likely. Meech? No. The rest of the "logjam kids"? They're fighting for the #6/#7 spot right now -- hardly the kind of players you'd want gunning for a spot on the second pairing.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Eh, I'm not a fan of zero control hockey. If you have the puck in front of your net, and a second later it's in the back of your net, you screwed up. I'm not saying Kronner should be roasted, just that it's a learning experience.

I posted the youtube clip of it on the previous page.

I didn't remember it that well, but honestly when you watch it, it was a total fluke play. He was slapping it to the corner like you're supposed to do and like he has thousands of times, it happened to catch a skate and went top corner. It's just one of those unlucky bounces.

[Earthhuman 8]

Having said that, I am NOT changing my mind about trading Kronwall. He has had one good year, he will get lots of trade value and we have other talent in the minors waiting for a chance, we could loose for nothing in return. Kronwall is not the end all be all, just another role player.

It still doesn't make sense to trade a guy who plays generally well regularly, with the potential to #1, not even in his prime (!), for somebody else who isn't even that far along. The whole team doesn't have to be 21 years old. Kronwall has many good years left.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I could care less about that play. IMO the puck getting into the net was not solely on the shoulders of Kronwall. Besides it is not like Lidstrom or Chellios has never had the puck go off of themselves and into the net. It is called bounces not going your way.

Having said that, I am NOT changing my mind about trading Kronwall. He has had one good year, he will get lots of trade value and we have other talent in the minors waiting for a chance, we could loose for nothing in return. Kronwall is not the end all be all, just another role player.

Maltby is a role player. Kronwall is a second pairing dman who plays 21 minutes a night, has great offensive skills that are valuable in a puck possession system, and throws devastating checks.

We don't have talent in the minors that can fill Kronwall's shoes right now.

[Doggy 130]

I could care less about that play. IMO the puck getting into the net was not solely on the shoulders of Kronwall. Besides it is not like Lidstrom or Chellios has never had the puck go off of themselves and into the net. It is called bounces not going your way.

Having said that, I am NOT changing my mind about trading Kronwall. He has had one good year, he will get lots of trade value and we have other talent in the minors waiting for a chance, we could loose for nothing in return. Kronwall is not the end all be all, just another role player.

A more incompetent assessment of a player I have never read.

[uk_redwing 495]

Did I mention my avator?

[Shutemdown 23]

I wouldn't rank one over the other. Kronwall overachieved, maybe more than even god expected. He looks that much better. Rafalski was still an elite defenseman, put together some pretty good stats, and some of the complaints about him in the season disappeared (slow, bad first passes). He has seen plenty of playoff games, I think it showed.

If he carries through with the way he played to next year, we will have three defensemen who should be #1 defensemen.

Yeah, it's hard for me to rank one or the other higher, or even to say that one outplayed the other. Point and case, they both stepped up and played VERY well in the playoffs.

Rafalski, IMO, earned his spot with Lids and I thought Stuart/Kronners made a GREAT duo... kind of a one-two punch.

Both made plays that had me thinking, "Damn, that guy's good..."

I was a fan of Rafalski even back when he was on the Florida Panthers... he's been a great defenseman his entire career... it's good to see he's still got it.

Overall, Kronwall makes the big hits, Rafalski is just solid all-around, and knows how to shoot the puck more and pinch in.

Hands down, it gets me excited even THINKING about our defense, let alone our team... can't wait for next season. It's closer than it seems!! )