NHL Network: Top 10 Goalies of ALL TIME

[jawbreaker 0]

Hasek carried Buffalo. Hasek won Olympic gold in Nagano. Hasek was still a very good goalie in 2008, despite his age. Hasek at his best was the best player in the league. There is nothing wrong that he is #2. Maybe he got even robbed...

EDIT I forgot... Hasek can make people fly, ask Gaborik)))

Edited September 15, 2008 by jawbreaker

[shadow47 1]

It is impossible to rank players. Period. Sure you can get a group together of the men that really excelled, but if you tried saying Brodeur or Hasek was "better" than the other, you really can't. There is no possible way...the fact is that Roy, Brodeur, Hasek (and others to their eras) were special in their accomplishments and the way they played, while a group of guys like Felix Potvin, Byron Dafoe, Roman Cechmanek etc. had their highs but didn't breach the elite group. But again, you can't truly rank any of them without sounding like a moron. Ranking players you’ve never even seen play, as is the case with most people...absolutely ludicrous. So if a person hasn’t seen a guy like Tretiak or Sawchuk playing in a large number of games, not just their best games, or their SCF appearance or something, you can’t say with any competence that Brodeur/Roy/Hasek are better than they were, nor can you say that they are better than B/R/H.

I am a goalie myself and was a big fan of the idea of goaltending from an early age. I had the guys I enjoyed watching, like Hrudey and Vanbiesbrouck starting in 1992-93. At the start of the 1996-97 season I had an interest in the Buffalo Sabres because I loved their announcer Rick Jeanneret‘s enthusiasm and had seen highlights and heard and read stories about Dominik Hasek, though I rarely caught games since ESPN barely ever showed the Sabres and I did not have ESPN2. I ended up watching nearly every game Hasek played starting then until the 1999-2000 season when he was out most of the year. After a break in which I watched “only” half or more of his games, I watched the entirety of the 2006/07/08 seasons. As someone who witnessed the bulk of Hasek’s NHL career, and attended 5-6-7 games live, as a student of the game and having played hockey for fifteen years, I feel I have a credible perspective.

Hasek reached his peak in the 1998-99 season, a season in which he was literally unbeatable. And I mean that he probably had his own damn team score on him as much as the rest of the league did. It's not something you can understand unless you watched the games yourself...there was a feeling when a game started that it was Dominik against the other team, and that was it, there was an awe in watching an individual control a game the way he did. Not “at times“, every single game. Goals from the Sabres could not be expected, it was a given the other teams would have clear lanes to the net all night. It was in these MVP years that Dominik got into the habit of diving so much to try to generate powerplays and handling the puck since his d-men would just make a mistake and keeping the play going endlessly to try to increase his offense‘s transition game--he was not just the goalie of these teams, he was their spokesman, the face of the team, and their absolute leader in every respect, he couldn‘t rely on his team to do a damn thing so he HAD to do it all himself, along with stopping 30-40 shots a night...he was probably most valuable in 1999, a season he didn’t win the MVP because people thought it was just too inconceivable that a goaltender could deserve the award three years in a row. But he did. Knowing he won two Hart Trophies in 1996-97 and 1997-98 is perhaps only half the story as he was a finalist three other times finishing second for the Hart in 1993-94, third in 1995, and third in 1998-99. People who say things like "reputation" etc. are the reasons Hasek won awards are just confused. Dominik earned his reputation.

I watched plenty of Brodeur games starting with the 1994 playoff run (how could you avoid it with the amount of exposure ESPN/Fox/ABC gave the Devs?), he has raised his game in the past five years out of necessity, similar to Osgood. It’s wrong to spin his situation that because he has deserved Vezina trophies in his recent seasons he must have in the 90s, but overall his career has earned him more collective accolades than probably anyone. Roy‘s career was half-done when I first saw him play. Patrick was an old-time JS Giguere with his chest pad but that wasn’t why he was great. Roy was a mental goaltender, he had an enormous ego and it gave him power in the net. Of course most Wings fans will have bad associations and emotional biases, but the objective ones can appreciate his place in history.

Again, you can’t compare a Roy to a Brodeur to a Hasek (to a Tretiak to a Sawchuk, don‘t get me started on era comparison), for doing the same job all these guys were very distinct in the way they did it. Roy had his aura, Brodeur his determined steadiness, Hasek his unpredictability. If you insist on grading goaltenders against one another, it’s important to look beyond statistics and awards, because those, as the arguments in this thread would show, are completely subjective. Roy would have won this and this but not this on the Sabres, Hasek never would’ve won a Vezina on the Devils, etc. These kind of conjectures should be thrown in the trash. Collect a large amount of game evidence on each completely unique player and draw your own conclusion, improvable though it might be.

[egroen 384]

It is impossible to rank players. Period.

I dunno -- I feel safe in stating Gordie Howe was a better player than Robert Lang.

Ranking players is fun and interesting. It is not "impossible" because it is done on a regular basis all over the place.

Comparing the top tier players from different generations is possible by looking at their accomplishments vs. their peers, as well as the fact there is a lot of overlap.

Dcinroc from hfboards.com responded well to this a while ago:

The changes that have occurred have been marginal and incremental rather than revolutionary. There are no clear dividing lines seperating the NHL of the 50s from the NHL of today. There is no one year where suddenly an entire generation of players became obsolete.

Lidstrom is the best Dman now. Chelios is still playing and was better than Lidstrom during the 90s, as was Bourque. When Chelios came into the league in the 80s, he was second-fiddle to guys like Robinson, Potvin and Bourque. When Robinson and Potvin came into the league, they were second-fiddles to Orr. When Orr came into the league, he was second-fiddle to guys like Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull and Jean Beliveau. When Howe and Beliveau came into the league, they were second-fiddle to Richard.

So, exactly what year did all these previous players suddenly become obsolete?

There is much more continuity in history (even hockey history) than you think. The human genetic code has not changed. The difference is that as techniques have evolved, players are better able to maximize their potential. However, that is NO reason to think that players from any particular era (including today) have higher natural potential than any other.

You are right about Hasek though, he was jaw-droppingly good at that time... though I think his '98 season was better than '99. That Buffalo team was terrible.

Edited September 15, 2008 by egroen

[MacK_Attack 108]

Roy never won a single Vezina again (much like Sawchuk never won again once Hall and Plante entered the league).

Sawchuk won the Vezina in 1964/65 with Johnny Bower.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Hasek carried Buffalo. Hasek won Olympic gold in Nagano. Hasek was still a very good goalie in 2008, despite his age. Hasek at his best was the best player in the league. There is nothing wrong that he is #2. Maybe he got even robbed...

EDIT I forgot... Hasek can make people fly, ask Gaborik)))

No he wasn't. And there's plenty of evidence to back it up.

That being said, Hasek being Top 10 all time is a no-brainer. Top 5, almost certainly. Anything beyond that you're dealing with different eras and extremely different conditions, but a reasonable argument could be made for any of those top 5 spots.

[shadow47 1]

Voting through the years -- Hasek, Roy, Brodeur & More (Other Goaltenders in serious Hart consideration as well as other notables) ... just FYI for people who wondered how close the races REALLY were

1993-94

Hart

1. Sergei Fedorov 194 (31-11-6)

2. Hasek 86 (6-15-11)

3. John Vanbiesbrouck 74 (7-11-6)

5. Roy 26 (3-3-2)

Vezina

1. Hasek 99 (15-8-0)

2. John Vanbiesbrouck (6-10-4)

All-Star

1. Hasek 224 (40-6-6)

2. John Vanbiesbrouck 104 (6-20-14)

3. Roy 86 (7-13-12)

6. Brodeur 5 (0-1-2)

1995

Hart

1. Eric Lindros 63 (10-4-1)

2. Jaromir Jagr 27 (2-4-5)

3. Hasek 23 (3-2-2)

Vezina

1. Hasek 104 (17-6-1)

2. Ed Belfour 25 (2-4-3)

8. Brodeur 7 (0-2-1)

All-Star

1. Hasek 73 (14-1-0)

2. Ed Belfour 32 (1-8-3)

1996

Hart

1. Mario Lemieux 439 (34-10-5-1-1)

6. Grant Fuhr 52 (1-3-2-2-5)

12. Brodeur 9 (0-0-1-1-1)

Vezina

1. Jim Carey 52 (5-7-6)

4. Brodeur 31 (4-3-2)

8. Hasek 9 (1-1-1)

9. Roy 5 (1-0-0)

All-Star

1. Jim Carey 181 (25-17-5)

3. Brodeur 84 (12-6-6)

7. Hasek 8 (0-2-2)

11. Roy 1 (0-1-1)

Save Percentage (regular season)

1. Hasek .920

2. Daren Puppa .918

7. Brodeur .911

11.Roy .908

1996-97

Hart

1. Hasek 519 (50-2-1-0-0)

2. Paul Kariya (239 (3-21-9-4-5)

4. Brodeur 115 (0-7-6-11-13)

8. Roy 31 (0-2-2-0-7)

Vezina

1. Hasek 120 (22-3-1)

2. Brodeur 73 (3-18-4)

3. Roy 25 (1-3-11)

All-Star

1. Hasek 237 (40-12-1)

2. Brodeur 174 (13-35-4)

3. Roy 47 (0-5-32)

1997-98

Hart

1. Hasek 499 (43-7-4-0-0)

2. Jaromir Jagr 308 (4-25-16-4-1)

4. Brodeur 115 (1-5-7-8-11)

Vezina

1. Hasek 126 (24-2-0)

2. Brodeur 57 (2-14-5)

5. Roy 5 (0-1-2)

All-Star

1. Hasek 259 (50-3-0)

2. Brodeur 159 (3-47-3)

6. Roy 1 (0-0-1)

1998-99

Hart

1. Jaromir Jagr 543 (51-4-1-0-0)

3. Hasek 172 (4-10-8-5-7)

4. Curtis Joseph 118 (1-5-10-7-2

16. Brodeur 1 (0-0-0-0-1)

Vezina

1. Hasek 73 (8-10-3)

2. Curtis Joseph 64 (10-4-2)

4. Brodeur 17 (1-1-9)

9. Roy 1 (0-0-1)

All-Star

1. Hasek 220 (35-13-6)

2. Byron Dafoe 121 (10-19-14)

4. Curtis Joseph 46 (6-3-7)

6. Brodeur 21 (3-0-6)

8. Roy 4 (0-1-1)

1999-00

Hart

1. Chris Pronger 396 (25-9-11-8-4)

2. Jaromir Jagr 395 (18-22-9-4-4)

3. Pavel Bure 346 (11-18-16-9-3)

4. Olaf Kolzig 139 (2-3-12-10-8)

12. Brodeur 6 (0-0-0-2-1-3)

18. Hasek 1 (0-0-0-0-1)

Vezina

1. Olaf Kolzig 110 (14-13-1)

2. Roman Turek 79 (9-9-7)

5. Brodeur 8 (0-1-5)

7. Roy 5 (0-1-2)

8. Hasek 4 (0-1-1)

All-Star

1. Olaf Kolzig 197 (29-14-10)

2. Roman Turek 186 (23-21-8)

3. Martin Brodeur 48 (2-9-11)

2000-01

Hart

1. Joe Sakic 585 (53-6-2-1-0)

2. Mario Lemieux 272 (8-17-10-6-5)

4. Roman Cechmanek 89 (0-2-8-10-5)

5. Brodeur 64 (0-4-4-4-4)

8. Hasek 42 (0-3-2-3-2)

Vezina

1. Hasek 85 (9-12-4)

2. Roman Cechmanek 65 (7-9-3)

3. Brodeur 42 (7-2-1)

5. Roy 19 (2-1-6)

All-Star

1. Hasek 160 (19-18-11)

2. Roman Cechmanek 154 (19-17-8)

3. Brodeur 143 (18-15-8)

4. Roy 46 (3-7-10)

2001-02

Hart

1. Jose Theodore 434 (26-16-9-5-2)

2. Jarome Iginla 434 (23-18-12-5-3)

3. Roy 283 (8-15-12-11-5)

4. Sean Burke 172 (2-4-16-10-7)

Vezina

1. Jose Theodore 105 (15-9-3)

2. Roy 105 (12-15-0)

5. Brodeur 7 (1-0-2)

6. Hasek 6 (0-1-3)

All-Star

1. Roy 226 (30-24-4)

2. Jose Theodore 210 (26-25-5)

4. Hasek 31 (1-4-14)

5. Brodeur 6 (0-1-3)

2002-03

Hart

1. Peter Forsberg 508 (38-13-6-2-1)

2. Markus Naslund 342 (5-26-17-7-4)

3. Brodeur 311 (14-12-11-10-2)

12. Roy 10 (1-0-0-0-0)

Vezina

1. Brodeur 131 (24-3-2)

2. Marty Turco 59 (3-12-8)

4. Roy 17 (1-2-6)

All-Star

1. Brodeur 243 (39-14-6)

2. Marty Turco 194 (20-29-7)

6. Roy 12 (1-1-4)

2003-04

Hart

1. Martin St. Louis 1016 (97-5-1-2-0)

2. Jarome Iginla 253 (2-20-15-3-9)

3. Brodeur 213 (2-14-11-11-7)

4. Miikka Kiprusoff 193 (0-19-7-7-4)

6. Roberto Luongo 167 (2-10-8-8-13)

Vezina

1. Brodeur 89 (15-4-2)

2. Miikka Kiprusoff 55 (5-9-3)

All-Star

1. Brodeur 307 (39-33-13)

2. Roberto Luongo 232 (32-19-15)

2005-06

Hart

1. Joe Thornton 1058 (67-48-9-1-4)

2. Jaromir Jagr 974 (48-49-30-0-1)

3. Miikka Kiprusoff 561 (10-24-45-20-8)

12. Brodeur 22 (0-0-0-6-4)

Vezina

1. Miikka Kiprusoff 140 (25-5-0)

2. Brodeur 48 (2-10-8)

7. Hasek 4 (0-1-1)

All-Star

1. Miikka Kiprusoff 599 (113-11-1)

2. Brodeur 232 (6-59-25)

7. Hasek 20 (0-5-5)

[egroen 384]

Sawchuk won the Vezina in 1964/65 with Johnny Bower.

My mistake -- The Vezina back then was like the Jennings trophy of today, until '81. Better to go by All-Star votes from the time.

Sawchuk had a peak that rivals Hasek, but loses value because he dropped pretty hard after the Detroit Dynasty period... of about 5 years.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I wanted to puke when I saw this. I was shocked to even see Hasek on the list of top 10 goalies of all time. They put Plante at #4, Sawchuk at #3 and Hasek at #2. HaHa. WTF. Somewhere in the world someone thinks that Hasek was not only better than those legends, but also better than Johnny Bower, Glenn Hall, Martin Brodeur, Billy Smith, Bernie Parent, Esposito, etc. What a joke.

Where would you rate him then? Is he even top-10 all time? It sounds like you have a disliking of the guy from this post. Please correct me if I am wrong though. Sure, he was on the Wings on the latter years of his career when he wasn't the Hasek of old (or young) during his Buffalo days, but he almost single-handedly kept Buffalo afloat many times during his lengthy career there. He has 6 Vezina trophies as a top goaltender in the league. 2 Cups, 1 where he played a major part in. 2 MVP awards if I'm not mistaken, which are all but impossible for goalies to win. It isn't that absurd to think he is the 2nd best goaltender of all time when you put his entire career in context outside of a Red Wings jersey.

Like all lists, it is entirely subjective. More or less mimicing what haroldsnepts said, a list such as this one should show Hasek as a slam dunk to be in the top-10 at minimum, but you could get hundreds of different listings/opinions saying that any one of Hasek, Brodeur, Sawchuck, Roy, Dryden et al were the best or 3rd best or 5th best, etc. and all those listings/opinions would probably have some legitamacy to them.

[jawbreaker 0]

No he wasn't. And there's plenty of evidence to back it up.

That being said, Hasek being Top 10 all time is a no-brainer. Top 5, almost certainly. Anything beyond that you're dealing with different eras and extremely different conditions, but a reasonable argument could be made for any of those top 5 spots.

Sure he wasn't that old Dominator, but for his age he was very good goalie last season (forget these 2 games against Nashville). He was 4th in GAA with 2.14, he had 0.902 SV%. 27 wins (as much as Osgood). How many guys are capable to put up this kinda numbers as a 43 year old veteran?

[miller76 463]

In all honestly I have been fairly hard on Hasek over the last couple of seasons. I really had a hard time with the defeat in the WCF in '07 with him in goal. I was definetly in favor of a switch to Ozzie this past season, especially after Hasek went down, and Ozzie went on his role.

But.....Hasek imo should definetly be on this list. The problem with these 'All time' comparisons is they make you compare the likes of Sawchuk to Hasek. And I think comparing him to Sawchuk is a little irrelevant. In part due to the difference in era's, and the way the game is played, officiated, and even the type of equipment a goalie wears in todays games. If you look at how mainstream sports have changed in the way the athletes condition themselves compared to when the game was younger, you could easily argue this as a determining factor of a players ability to compete at the highest level. And as a reward being put in an elite category like this.

edit: sp

Edited September 16, 2008 by miller76

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Sure he wasn't that old Dominator, but for his age he was very good goalie last season (forget these 2 games against Nashville). He was 4th in GAA with 2.14, he had 0.902 SV%. 27 wins (as much as Osgood). How many guys are capable to put up this kinda numbers as a 43 year old veteran?

I didn't know we were handicapping him for age. I thought we were comparing him to the rest of the goaltenders in the NHL based on performance. He wasn't very good.

Regular season Save % .902 and playoffs was .888%. His save percentage puts him outside the top 30 goaltenders for the regular season and he lost his job in the postseason because of poor play. And that was behind the Red Wings. If Osgood's numbers are inflated as people claim due to Detroit's defensive prowess, how bad would Hasek's numbers have been on an average team?

Like I said, easily top 10 Best goalies all time. Even top 5. But no revisionist history--he was not a "very good goalie" last year.

[Booster313 138]

My 2cents:

Hasek deserves to be on mentioned on anyones top five alltime goalie list, the fact is however you could ask ten different people to arrange those five goalies and get a different combination everytime. For what it's worth he'd be one or two on my list.

[puckloo39 5,686]

My 2cents:

Hasek deserves to be on mentioned on anyones top five alltime goalie list, the fact is however you could ask ten different people to arrange those five goalies and get a different combination everytime. For what it's worth he'd be one or two on my list.

See avatar for my opinion. For those who insist on complaining (still) about having Hasek as a Red Wing, be happy now. He's got the message and he's gone. Done and done.

To everyone in this thread who did such a good job of listing Dom's amazing contributions and accomplishments, thanks! There's no point in comparing Dom to any other goalie. The rest of the active goalies in this league can only dream of having a career even close to Hasek's.

[egroen 384]

For what it's worth:

Here is what I have (that are post 1950):

1) Hasek

2) Roy

These guys both were able to take mediocore to bad teams the distance, something few of the other goalies were able to do. Hasek's prime is just so much over and above Roy's thayt he is number one pretty easily in my book.

3) Plante

4) Sawchuk

Both had amazing primes, but their numbers really suffered outside of their dynasty teams... Sawchuk the most noticeably, despite the better prime.

5) Tretiak

Arguably the greatest Soviet player ever - along with Kharlamov and Fetisov. 5 time Soviet player of the year during a time when the top soviets were amongst the best in the world.

6) Hall

Not exactly a "clutch" goalie, but great, great numbers... especially in the regular season. Great numbers for years, but never had near the prime of the others above.

7) Brodeur

8) Dryden

Dryden with the higher peak, but he arguably played for the greatest team of all time... his backup put up similar numbers during the time. So I give the edge to Brodeur, who has definitely benefited from the trap-happy Devils, but he has the years to place him above Dryden, IMO.

Decent sized gap between Top 6 and 7th... another one between top 8 and the rest.

Edited September 16, 2008 by egroen

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

See avatar for my opinion. For those who insist on complaining (still) about having Hasek as a Red Wing, be happy now. He's got the message and he's gone. Done and done.

To everyone in this thread who did such a good job of listing Dom's amazing contributions and accomplishments, thanks! There's no point in comparing Dom to any other goalie. The rest of the active goalies in this league can only dream of having a career even close to Hasek's.

I'm sure Brodeur is dreaming about it as we speak.

[puckloo39 5,686]

I'm sure Brodeur is dreaming about it as we speak.

undoubtedly so. He had to wait for Hasek to retire to ever sniff a Vezina.

PS - for the stuff of nightmares, Marty has only to dwell for a moment on the Nagano Olympics . Dream on...

which is not to say I think Brodie is chopped liver of course. I am quite certain Dom and Marty respect one another as peers.

Hasek V. Brodeur

Edited September 16, 2008 by puckloo39

[eva unit zero 271]

It's easy to say how he'd measure up in a discussion like this; he's the best, the guy won 11 gold medals. He was even Hasek's goalie coach, so you tell me how he measures up with Hasek. Just because he played internationally doesn't mean you can't compare him. Is an apple in the states different than an apple overseas? They are all goalies.

Tretiak

Roy

Brodeur

Hasek

Sawchuk

Roy revolutionized how goalies today play the game, he is responsible for the butterfly.

Glenn Hall was the first great butterfly goaltender. Not Patrick Roy. Just like how Jacques Plante was NOT the first goaltender to wear a mask; it was Clint Benedict.

[toby91_ca 620]

I'm sure Brodeur is dreaming about it as we speak.

No kidding. Unless he has a complete bomb of a year, he'll become the all-time winningest goalie this year. Also, he might pass Sawchuk for most shutouts as well.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

undoubtedly so. He had to wait for Hasek to retire to ever sniff a Vezina.

PS - for the stuff of nightmares, Marty has only to dwell for a moment on the Nagano Olympics . Dream on...

which is not to say I think Brodie is chopped liver of course. I am quite certain Dom and Marty respect one another as peers.

Brodeur won the Gold in 2002, and has 2 more Cups as a starter than Hasek has. Also, wasn't Roy the goalie in the 1998 Olympics, instead of Brodeur?

Fact is, you probably made your post forgetting that Brodeur was still playing in the league. You're forgiven.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Brodeur won the Gold in 2002, and has 2 more Cups as a starter than Hasek has. Also, wasn't Roy the goalie in the 1998 Olympics, instead of Brodeur?

Fact is, you probably made your post forgetting that Brodeur was still playing in the league. You're forgiven.

Brodeur was on the bench in Nagano. And I don't need your forgiveness, believe me.

''The man is the best,'' Brodeur said after Hasek led his native Czech Republic to the gold medal in the Olympics last February. ''They don't come any better than him.''

QFT.

[eva unit zero 271]

Regarding Brodeur in '98 - not even close. Hasek faced almost 600 more shots on goal than Brodeur and still came away with a 93.2 Save %. GAA and Wins are a team stat as much as a goalie stat.

I've always felt Hasek's save percentage in Buffalo was an overrated number; here's why:

Hasek faced a lot of shots in Buffalo...but the number of shots he faced was artificially high. Buffalo's defensive scheme was an unorthodox and highly effective unit that did a very good job of forcing the opposing team to the perimeter, and allowed the opposing team low quality perimeter shots. The defense would clear any potential screens from the goaltender's line of sight, making most shots 'easy' stops.

Anaheim used the same sort of tactics to overcome the Wings in 2003.

Because Buffalo allowed a high number of shots and did not score much, people assumed they had poor defense and Hasek was the team's only good player when the reality was that they had a great goaltender AND excellent team defense, but used an unorthodox defensive style. Hasek is probably one of the ten or fifteen best goaltenders ever...but he's not in the top three. For clarity's sake, I don't rank Roy there either. Roy gets ranked as a top-three goaltender based primarily on his Conn Smythe trophies...a trophy which didn't exist until ten years after Sawchuk's prime, and one he would likely have won at least once.

As far as the "Hasek should have won the Smythe in 2002" argument is concerned...no. Hasek was about 6th in line to win the Smythe in 2002. Lidstrom, Yzerman, Fedorov, Chelios, Hull, and maybe THEN Hasek. It's hard to argue a goaltender as the most valuable player on a team when he has not only the league's best defenseman, but also the league's second best defenseman in front of him. To argue Hasek as more valuable than any of those five is to not have watched that playoff run because Hasek had his moments, but he also had some pretty major breakdowns. The five players I mentioned all came through like the stars they were at the time.

[Guest Crymson]

I wanted to puke when I saw this. I was shocked to even see Hasek on the list of top 10 goalies of all time. They put Plante at #4, Sawchuk at #3 and Hasek at #2. HaHa. WTF. Somewhere in the world someone thinks that Hasek was not only better than those legends, but also better than Johnny Bower, Glenn Hall, Martin Brodeur, Billy Smith, Bernie Parent, Esposito, etc. What a joke.

He did revolutionize goaltending in his own way, and his goaltending with the Sabres was even better than his stats suggested---he CARRIED that team.

[shadow47 1]

Brodeur was on the bench in Nagano. And I don't need your forgiveness, believe me.

''The man is the best,'' Brodeur said after Hasek led his native Czech Republic to the gold medal in the Olympics last February. ''They don't come any better than him.''

QFT.

Brodeur has annoyed me for various reasons: I always felt his job was one of the easiest in the league for a number of seasons facing the fewest shots in the league for NJ, a team that reprogrammed the way hockey was played with their rewarding all-defense style of play, and thus found people's high ranking of him a bit misguided. His book seemed wrought with gossip-oriented assessments of his fellow players, a little expose for hockey players who are usually taught discretion first. That said, "the best in the business" as Mike Emrick loved to call him has proven himself in recent years and despite his lameness I can appreciate his play. Uhhhhhhh...I forgot the point of this. Well, anyway, Dom is the best I saw, don't know about Sawchuk, Tretiak, etc. but in his day Dom was way ahead. I would say Luongo is the best these days, Brodeur is in the thick of things but his style is becoming outdated and he's winning Vezinas these days on name alone, Roberto is huge and as solid as they come. Hasek's not-so-great save percentage is because the ******* team gives up 15-20 shots a game assholes, the year before he did fine .91something and the year before that in Ottawa he was .92something. If he "played on an average team" his s% would've been higher seriously. Obviously he wasn't great last year but he was old...duh.

[eva unit zero 271]

Brodeur has annoyed me for various reasons: I always felt his job was one of the easiest in the league for a number of seasons facing the fewest shots in the league for NJ, a team that reprogrammed the way hockey was played with their rewarding all-defense style of play, and thus found people's high ranking of him a bit misguided. His book seemed wrought with gossip-oriented assessments of his fellow players, a little expose for hockey players who are usually taught discretion first. That said, "the best in the business" as Mike Emrick loved to call him has proven himself in recent years and despite his lameness I can appreciate his play. Uhhhhhhh...I forgot the point of this. Well, anyway, Dom is the best I saw, don't know about Sawchuk, Tretiak, etc. but in his day Dom was way ahead. I would say Luongo is the best these days, Brodeur is in the thick of things but his style is becoming outdated and he's winning Vezinas these days on name alone, Roberto is huge and as solid as they come. Hasek's not-so-great save percentage is because the ******* team gives up 15-20 shots a game assholes, the year before he did fine .91something and the year before that in Ottawa he was .92something. If he "played on an average team" his s% would've been higher seriously. Obviously he wasn't great last year but he was old...duh.

Way to contradict yourself. Brodeur has an easy job because he only faces a few shots, but Hasek's numbers are poor because he only faces a few shots. Osgood also, assumedly, has an easy job from facing so few shots?

You do realize that Brodeur had the best numbers last season and won the Vezina based on numbers, and the only reason he wasn't the first-team All-Star was the inexplicable Nabokov love-fest despite Nabokov's considerably worse numbers over the same number of games on a better team?

[puckloo39 5,686]

Brodeur has annoyed me for various reasons: I always felt his job was one of the easiest in the league for a number of seasons facing the fewest shots in the league for NJ, a team that reprogrammed the way hockey was played with their rewarding all-defense style of play, and thus found people's high ranking of him a bit misguided. His book seemed wrought with gossip-oriented assessments of his fellow players, a little expose for hockey players who are usually taught discretion first. That said, "the best in the business" as Mike Emrick loved to call him has proven himself in recent years and despite his lameness I can appreciate his play. Uhhhhhhh...I forgot the point of this. Well, anyway, Dom is the best I saw, don't know about Sawchuk, Tretiak, etc. but in his day Dom was way ahead. I would say Luongo is the best these days, Brodeur is in the thick of things but his style is becoming outdated and he's winning Vezinas these days on name alone, Roberto is huge and as solid as they come. Hasek's not-so-great save percentage is because the ******* team gives up 15-20 shots a game assholes, the year before he did fine .91something and the year before that in Ottawa he was .92something. If he "played on an average team" his s% would've been higher seriously. Obviously he wasn't great last year but he was old...duh.

Brodeur has always believed his own press. It's a failing on his part. Oh, well.

Regarding Dom, it never fails to amaze me how hard people work to convince themselves and others that a player who was clearly revolutionary and stellar in his NHL and international career ... was actually terrible. Just amazing, not to mention ridiculous.

No worries, though, discussing it doesn't change the record books or the truth.