Guest nutz2u Report post Posted September 17, 2008 The Ducks are in a bucket of s*** for '09, 14 UFAs and 2 RFAs and 30M committed. The Canadian dollar is falling and the economy is in a tailspin. GMs through out the league are now beginning to wonder if the cap might even go down next year sounds like a perfect time for Burke to bail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 (edited) Most Ducks fans I have read were in favor of losing Marchant without question... I do not think he is our version of Draper. Of course Marchant alone is not enough... man, they are in a mess. He would have to be waived however... another albatross of a salary. Edited September 17, 2008 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 I don't fault Burke for signing Schneider. At the time he thought Niedermayer was retiring. He had to scramble to fill a mighty big hole in his defensive corps. It just seems strange he couldn't get anything for Schneider in trade. As NFM#25 pointed out, his salary isn't that bad relative to the market. He's a veteran D-man who can log big minutes, is great on the PP and has a good slapshot. And I can never remember exactly how the waiver system works, but if he's picked up by another team, isn't Burke still on the hook for a part of his salary? That's only if Schneider is picked up on Re-entry Waivers. In order for that to happen, every team would have to pass on him. Then the Ducks could send him down, but if he was brought back up, the Ducks would be on the hook for 50% of his salary. Before Schneider got waived, the Ducks were $3.235M (according to NHLSCap.com) over the cap. Schneider's salary cap hit for 08-09 is $5.625M (salary is $5.75M). $3.235 -5.623 -$2.388M (under the cap) And if Schneids is claimed on re-entry waivers, that actually ends up putting the Ducks back over the cap (50% of the cost, right?) by almost $500K. How'd you arrive at your number? Correct Before Schneider got waived, the Ducks were $3.235M (according to NHLSCap.com) over the cap. Schneider's salary cap hit for 08-09 is $5.625M (salary is $5.75M). $3.235 -5.623 -$2.388M (under the cap) And if Schneids is claimed on re-entry waivers, that actually ends up putting the Ducks back over the cap (50% of the cost, right?) by almost $500K. How'd you arrive at your number? I see where you and I differ now. You were assuming Bobby Ryan plays for ANA all season and makes his maximum bonus (which he's sure to play for ANA, but the bonus amount is not 100% until the season unfolds). If you max out his Cap hit based on the maximum our numbers are the same. From what I read on it today (I wasn't sure either), Anaheim would be on the hook for 50% of his salary. Correct? Correct Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 That's only if Schneider is picked up on Re-entry Waivers. In order for that to happen, every team would have to pass on him. Then the Ducks could send him down, but if he was brought back up, the Ducks would be on the hook for 50% of his salary. Ah, ok. I'd be really surprised if everyone passed on him and he got sent down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edicius 3,269 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 Ah, ok. I'd be really surprised if everyone passed on him and he got sent down. Hey, maybe the rest of the league would really like to screw Burke just that much. Of course, then he'd just start crying "Collusion! Collusion!". And thanks for the info, NFM25, that makes more sense to me now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
40#1Fan 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hock...clears_waivers/ According to Darren Dreger on Leafs Lunch, no team put a claim in for Schneider. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MacK_Attack 108 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 Schneider cleared waivers; no takers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 WOW, No one took him off of waivers. The few takers there are at this point must realize it is only them and they are all holding out for the best offer, which would mean taking him on re-entry waivers. OR... Burke's mouth has pissed off enough people that they are really going to stick it to him. But in a cap world if you have the option of waiting for re-entry waivers, and you are relatively certain he will be there why not wait. Especially this late in the offseason where most rosters are full. I just feel bad for Schnieds, great offensive defenseman, cheap compared to say Finger or others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinRedWing 172 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 I'm very surprised he cleared waivers. Edi's dream of the league screwing Burke over is 50% closer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellarina 1 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 Not to be rude, but I could've told you that last year already. Burke really isn't the genius so many of the media have made him out to be. He bailed on VAN after he left it in shambles and he'll do the same in ANA. Next year, he'll be gone. I totally agree with you. He'll end up with the leafs next year and at least he doesn't have to worry about leaving the Leafs in shambles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 I'm very surprised he cleared waivers. Edi's dream of the league screwing Burke over is 50% closer. Me too. I thought for sure someone would grab him. Shows how much I know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nutz2u Report post Posted September 17, 2008 So, am I correct in thinking that the only way they can get rid of any of his salary is by recalling him and hope someone picks him up on the way up? I read somewhere that his full salary counts against the cap if he stays in the minors because he is over 35. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 Ouch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edicius 3,269 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 I'm very surprised he cleared waivers. Edi's dream of the league screwing Burke over is 50% closer. I'm a happy, happy boy today. However, I do feel bad that Schneids is getting jerked around like this. But then I remember how much Burke is getting screwed here - he might not be able to sign Teemu! - and it makes me happy again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akustyk 84 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 But then I remember how much Burke is getting screwed here - he might not be able to sign Teemu! - and it makes me happy again. that's it! and here's for further Burke's collapses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zion 93 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 AWESOME!!! Suck it, Anaheim! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duck Guy 86 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 (edited) lol people DO realize teemu will sign for the minimum (or close to it)... and even if the ducks have to pay 50% they are 422,500 over and that shouldn't be hard to get rid of no? Or iam being a little to optimistic? Someone needs to make the CBA guidlines for dummies... this whole waiver thing is hard for me hahah Edited September 17, 2008 by Duck Guy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 Guys like Marchant and O'Donnell are the core of the Ducks team. Marchant is to the Ducks is as Draper is to us. They would be a significant loss. Possibly moreso and all the while jettisoning far less salary than Schneider. Besides, this is much easier said than done. He would need to trade them to roughly equal the space buying out Schneider would open. But then you'd need to bring in two more guys which is another $1m min. It's just a shocking alternative really. BTW, Ryan is under contract til the end of the 09/10 season. O'Donnell and Marchant are NOT comparable to Draper. O'Donnell and Marchant may embody the type of team Anaheim ices, but they are far from cornerstones of the Ducks franchise. Both have only been with the team for 3 years, and Marchant in particular has been on the trade block repeatedly, but his trade value has been in the red basically since joining the Ducks. Theres a difference between not being traded and not being able to be traded. O'Donnell is somewhat of a different story, as he has actually performed quite admirably in a Ducks uniform - perhaps some of his best hockey in their cup winning year. But you can bet Burke would prefer to go the route of shipping off O'Donnell for a reasonable return as opposed to waiving a recently signed UFA if he could. Not only is the precedent terrible for future signings, but the other negatives have been detailed in this thread already. The problem with shipping off O'Donnell is that its pointless if he isn't going in a package with a much bigger salary from a forward, as he wouldn't clear even close to the amount of cap space to begin with and on top of that, he's a great value himself at 1.25M, and is likely a piece that Burke can get under contract fairly easily and reasonably in the coming off-season. It has nothing to do with his sentimental value to the squad, a la Draper, but rather the fact that he is a good value who Burke would likely prefer to retain the following season than Schneider which, in essence, makes the entire idea of shipping off O'Donnell and Marchant useless past the current season. Not that Burke apparently thinks that far in advance... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duck Guy 86 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 O'Donnell and Marchant are NOT comparable to Draper. O'Donnell and Marchant may embody the type of team Anaheim ices, but they are far from cornerstones of the Ducks franchise. Both have only been with the team for 3 years, and Marchant in particular has been on the trade block repeatedly, but his trade value has been in the red basically since joining the Ducks. Theres a difference between not being traded and not being able to be traded. O'Donnell is somewhat of a different story, as he has actually performed quite admirably in a Ducks uniform - perhaps some of his best hockey in their cup winning year. But you can bet Burke would prefer to go the route of shipping off O'Donnell for a reasonable return as opposed to waiving a recently signed UFA if he could. Not only is the precedent terrible for future signings, but the other negatives have been detailed in this thread already. The problem with shipping off O'Donnell is that its pointless if he isn't going in a package with a much bigger salary from a forward, as he wouldn't clear even close to the amount of cap space to begin with and on top of that, he's a great value himself at 1.25M, and is likely a piece that Burke can get under contract fairly easily and reasonably in the coming off-season. It has nothing to do with his sentimental value to the squad, a la Draper, but rather the fact that he is a good value who Burke would likely prefer to retain the following season than Schneider which, in essence, makes the entire idea of shipping off O'Donnell and Marchant useless past the current season. Not that Burke apparently thinks that far in advance... he takes it year by year why think of the future? Cough Cough ANDY MAC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 lol people DO realize teemu will sign for the minimum (or close to it)... and even if the ducks have to pay 50% they are 422,500 over and that shouldn't be hard to get rid of no? Or iam being a little to optimistic? Someone needs to make the CBA guidlines for dummies... this whole waiver thing is hard for me hahah DG, are you saying "minimum" as in around 500k? Selanne had 23 points in 26 games and 4 points in 6 games. Thats a good 72 points over a regular season. How on earth do you think the NHL and NHLPA is going to approve that kind of a contract for Selanne? Especially when he can't have any bonuses attached to his contract to inflate the price, because if he does, they count against the cap too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 (edited) lol people DO realize teemu will sign for the minimum (or close to it)... and even if the ducks have to pay 50% they are 422,500 over and that shouldn't be hard to get rid of no? Or iam being a little to optimistic? Someone needs to make the CBA guidlines for dummies... this whole waiver thing is hard for me hahah Honestly even if he was so inclined to do Burke that kind of favor, I don't know that Selanne could sign for league minimum and have the contract approved. As I'm guessing you know, he had 23 points in 26 games last season, and two 90+ point seasons the couple years before that. Wasn't he signed for $1.5 million last year? I can't see the league approving a sudden $1 million dollar paycut when there's really no performance drop to justify it. Even at 38, he's too good a player for that low of a salary, even with a hometown discount. Of course, I've been wrong on just about everything so far in this thread, so who knows. Edit: YoungGuns beat me to the punch! Edited September 17, 2008 by haroldsnepsts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 he takes it year by year why think of the future? Cough Cough ANDY MAC He's certainly making decisions like a GM who doesn't plan on being around in a few seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legendary D In 03 50 Report post Posted September 17, 2008 I wonder if anyone will take Schneids on the way back up? s***, for $2.5m, Wings should welcome the bastard home to play on the third pairing and trade Lils and Sammy for several first round picks. Word, LDi03 /sarcasmsss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted September 18, 2008 Honestly even if he was so inclined to do Burke that kind of favor, I don't know that Selanne could sign for league minimum and have the contract approved. As I'm guessing you know, he had 23 points in 26 games last season, and two 90+ point seasons the couple years before that. Wasn't he signed for $1.5 million last year? I can't see the league approving a sudden $1 million dollar paycut when there's really no performance drop to justify it. Even at 38, he's too good a player for that low of a salary, even with a hometown discount. Of course, I've been wrong on just about everything so far in this thread, so who knows. To my knowledge, the NHL will not reject a contract because a player agreed to take less than his market value; the only situations where a contract will be rejected is if the values of salary do not conform to the established rules (such as the Erat extension) or if the contract would put the team over the cap during the playing season. If Selanne wants to sign for the league minimum, the league would approve the contract. Selanne's cap number, with bonuses, was just shy of $3m last year. That was a pay cut of more than $1m from his previous season. If the NHL was going to reject that kind of stuff, Selanne would have been playing for more than he made last year. Also, Nicklas Lidstrom would make more than the $7.45m he does (pay cut after winning the Norris trophy for the fifth time in six seasons), and Marian Hossa wouldn't be a Red Wing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duck Guy 86 Report post Posted September 18, 2008 (edited) He's certainly making decisions like a GM who doesn't plan on being around in a few seasons. I know what Det and Ana should do... a gm switch for like 3 seasons and see what happens just think about it.... Z on waivers... Edited September 18, 2008 by Duck Guy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
