So who's it gonna be?

[norrisnick 1]

I'd say the pecking order is such.

Leino - He has the least to learn in GR and at 25 being a part-time player isn't going to stunt his development much at all. Had a better 2nd half of the preseason schedule than Helm.

Helm - Kid is a high octane injection but would be best served playing a ton of minutes in GR. Being a part-time player would hurt him the most. Electric early but a bit quiet the last couple preseason games whereas Leino stepped up.

No one - The Wings are more likely to go with 12 forwards than keeping one of Downey or McCarty with the big boys.

McCarty - Just barely less useless taking a semi-regular shift than Downey.

Downey - He pissed away the only edge he had over anyone when he managed to back out of a scrap with Peters AND put the Wings down a man. Not to mention his two other stupid penalties. His camp has been a trainwreck from the moment he injured Filppula.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Depends...if this forward is going to crack the top three lines on a regular basis....Then Lenio. If we are talking someone to sit in the press box and play the occasional game here and there then I say McCarty...or Downey really but I'd give the edge to Mac. Helm's year is probably next year. Not because of skill but because of the type of player he is and our needs.

Agreed fully. So what did Downey do tonight that is getting all this pub?

[norrisnick 1]

Agreed fully. So what did Downey do tonight that is getting all this pub?

Downey took 3 minor penalties. The last one being quite embarassing.

Downey got run from behind by Andrew Peters (Buffalo's tough guy). Downey gets up, gets in Peters' face and crosschecks him in the chest. Peters tells him if he wants to go, lets go. Official is right there presumably telling them that if they're gonna go do it rather than pissing about. Downey gives Peters another crosscheck to the chest and skates off. He got whistled for crosschecking and Buffalo got the PP.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Leino, its not like downey wont be in the lineup some nights when theres injuries. Leino just looks really impressive, so does Helm but hes 21 so it wouldn't be as much of a crime for him to play in GR.

[Heaton 1]

Helm since it'll be a 4th line spot. I just pray to God that Leino is accepting of what Holland has/is selling him about spending time in GR. I really liked what Downey did last season, he was careful but did his job well but this preseason he's been awful and a detriment to the team. If the Wings are going to carry some muscle it has to be McCarty even though his best days are way behind him at least he realizes when to stop and can be consistent. Downey's first impression this off season and last impression may find him buried in the AHL this year.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Ritola, Mursak, Abdelkader, and Emmerton were sent down to GR today, Leino and Helm are still on the team for now.

[Grim 5]

It doesn't need to be a final decision. They can go up and then back down to the AHL.

sometimes you gotta send down talent simply because you can... heaven forbid that injury opens up a roster spot (knock on wood). Its always good to have extra talent available if needed, even if they are NHL-ready.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Downey took 3 minor penalties. The last one being quite embarassing.

Downey got run from behind by Andrew Peters (Buffalo's tough guy). Downey gets up, gets in Peters' face and crosschecks him in the chest. Peters tells him if he wants to go, lets go. Official is right there presumably telling them that if they're gonna go do it rather than pissing about. Downey gives Peters another crosscheck to the chest and skates off. He got whistled for crosschecking and Buffalo got the PP.

Thanks NN, I've had meetings all day and tried to watch the game through JustinTV, but only got through the first before they started catching on to me haha

[egroen 384]

Leino is well outproducing Brunnstrom so far. I will forever tie these two players together and compare them.

[thedisappearer 291]

Leino is well outproducing Brunnstrom so far. I will forever tie these two players together and compare them.

You are not the only one.

[Guest Shoreline]

Leino or Helm, or both, and take whoever is unproductive/effortless/injured off the roster and give those boys a spot.

I like Downey and all, but since we're clearly not going much of a tough route this season, may as well go all out. When any injuries occur, which undoubtedly they do, sub in one of those three.

That leaves out DMac. I loved what he contributed to the organization in years past, but the guy is clearly not the same and he should be in GR or somewhere else.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Shoreline

[evan_a2 0]

Its obvious that you take Leino. He is looking like another Franzen, in which he is an older rookie and can shoot with the best of em. No sense in sending him down now. Wait till he cools off and then make another decision.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'll break it up into two comparisons. Holland will either go with the one of the kids, or one of the vets.

Helm v Leino

Helm is noticeably cheaper, Helm has experience with the team, and Helm can be used in a 3rd/4th line checking role whereas Leino is more of a scorer type. Leino is older and the better overall player, and probably more complete in his development. I think the most likely outcome is that if they choose we see a some of each during Chelios' injury, and possibly some of other guys like Abdelkader, then we see Leino or Helm stick on the roster or whoever once they move a defenseman. Meech will also probably cover some time at forward in this scenario. Leino probably sees the most time as he's the top player in the group, older than the rest, and could become a legit scoring line forward soon.

Downey v Mac

As much sentimentality as there is for Mac...there is just no reason for him to be on the team ahead of Downey. None whatsoever. If they go with one of these two, it absolutely has to be Downey, regardless of the Peters thing. All McCarty has on Downey is time with the club; he has nothing on him in terms of performance, which is what matters.

So it might be Downey, it might be a rotating bunch of kids (probably Leino mainly), or it might be nobody other than the 22 players currently on the roster, with Meech serving double-duty as the 13th forward.

[Majsheppard 203]

It is Leino, but he also could stand to benifit the most by going to a top line in GR. Also he is more expensive to have on the roster then Downey or Mac, although if the Defense situation works out he would be a fine addition. Helms speed is great and I can't wait to see him develop, but I am more intrested in seeing Leino develop.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Eva's response is probably the more realistic. Here is my final analysis based on the games so far in the preseason as well as the games last season.

Helm- he's a 3rd/4th line guy who's definitely an NHL player but should only be kept on the team if he's going to actually play each night- there's no point keeping a promising player that's this young and waiver exempt unless you're going to play him every night. It's a waste of develpment time to keep him on as the 13th forward. Bring him up from GR for injury replacements when the time comes.

Leino- he's a top six forward in the making that's ready for NHL play. The problem is there aren't spots open from 1-12 up front. However, because he's able to go back home if he's not happy in GR (even though he said he's committed to waiting his turn, I'm just planning for the worse), I'd keep him up as the 13th forward unless the management can sell him on their happiness with him and get him to buy into waiting for an injury or trade. If he waits his turn it's a foregone conclusion that he'll make the team at some point.

If Pavel, Holmer or Hossa feel like they shouldn't risk playing opening day with their nagging ailments I can easily see Helm going back to GR and Leino staying here to fill in on the top six.

Downey- he'll have a spot on the Wings because he brings something they need. He's probably the 13th forward.

McCarty- he's not the man he used to be... that's for sure. Hopefully more conditioning in GR is just what the doctor ordered.

[Majsheppard 203]

I'll break it up into two comparisons. Holland will either go with the one of the kids, or one of the vets.

Downey v Mac

As much sentimentality as there is for Mac...there is just no reason for him to be on the team ahead of Downey. None whatsoever. If they go with one of these two, it absolutely has to be Downey, regardless of the Peters thing. All McCarty has on Downey is time with the club; he has nothing on him in terms of performance, which is what matters.

I do not agree with Downey being better then Mac. Darren can chip in a little more offense, and can fight just the same. He has to be more trusted in the lockeroom then Downey.

Either way the Wings philopshy has been to have a fourthline that will contribute offensively. If they stick with that, then its one of the youngsters. If they buy into the must have an enforcer its one of the older guys. If they want the best of both worlds its Darren.

Maybe they will go with the cheapest, which I believe is Darren. Not sure.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I do not agree with Downey being better then Mac. Darren can chip in a little more offense, and can fight just the same. He has to be more trusted in the lockeroom then Downey.

Either way the Wings philopshy has been to have a fourthline that will contribute offensively. If they stick with that, then its one of the youngsters. If they buy into the must have an enforcer its one of the older guys. If they want the best of both worlds its Darren.

Maybe they will go with the cheapest, which I believe is Darren. Not sure.

That'd be true if the year was 2002.

[Rick 42]

Looks like Howard is staying for a while.

Howard stays

Goalie Jimmy Howard, who was slated to go to Grand Rapids, will remain with the Red Wings until he's ready to return from a broken finger. That injury should keep him in town for at least 10 days because NHL teams can't demote players after they get injured.

Howard will count against the salary cap, but on a pro-rated basis (days with the Red Wings last winter). Howard's cap hit shouldn't be large enough to bump a player to Grand Rapids, but he will count against the 23-man roster limit.

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2008/1...00003685802.txt

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I figured Leino (while promising) wouldn't make the big club, but after all the things I've heard about him in the preseason from Babs and after watching him play yesterday I was uber-impressed with him. He wasn't lightning quick by any means, but he was positionally sound, made some great "thinking" plays, got in great position to shoot multiple times and moved the puck well. He was strong along the boards (which surprised me) and his vision was great. That kid is really going to make things difficult for Babs and company which is a great problem to have.

[ben_usmc 253]

That'd be true if the year was 2002.

I agree, now maybe DMAC needed some more time to get into shape last year I don't know, but he isn't going to make anyone pay. In Calgary he really wasn't much of a fighter and I highly doubt he improved on that. His scoring was ok, but I really don't see a huge gap between him and Downey. I would hope we bring them both up when we face Ducks/Flames/Avs and so on. Then let the kids play against most of the east, canucks, Edmonton, etc.

[Shaman 713]

Id go with Leino, a team with 4 lines of people who can light the lamp on a nightly basis makes the other teams D play harder and more likely to make dump mistakes later on in the game. There is very little need to keep Downey on a night in night out basis, do you really think the blues or cbj are going to be taking that many cheap shots? I could see it when we play SJ or Anaheim to keep their clowns in line. Anyway, on a regular basis Leino gives us more than anyone else without hurting the team/player (like helm who needs to be playing top line minutes in GR) too much.

[Reds4Life 51]

Downey sucks big time. He refused to fight with that Sabres guy. That is pretty much the only thing he could bring to the team. Leino is MUCH more useful player.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Helm - should be in the regular lineup even if it's a 4th liner because he can be effective in that role.

McCarty - Doesn't deserve to be in the NHL, let alone on the Red Wings, but has a high chance because of team loyalty.

Downey - Also doesn't deserve to be in the NHL. Other than fighting he brings absolutely nothing to the team, thats why I really don't think he'll make it.

Leino - Shows some glimpses of goal-scoring and playmaking ability, but can't crack a lineup that is top-heavy in exactly that. He's a lot better developing more and getting accustomed to the NA style of hockey in GR. No point in putting a player like this on the 4th line.

Ultimately, think it's going to end up being Mac if they end up taking a 13th forward.

That's why he needs to be on this team. Who else is going to do it? Yeah he backed down tonight, but I doubt he'd act that way all season.

First you guys act like you don't think we need fighters, and now you're getting on Downey for not fighting. It was a bad move by him but it's just a stupid preseason game.

Downey took 3 minor penalties. The last one being quite embarassing.

Downey got run from behind by Andrew Peters (Buffalo's tough guy). Downey gets up, gets in Peters' face and crosschecks him in the chest. Peters tells him if he wants to go, lets go. Official is right there presumably telling them that if they're gonna go do it rather than pissing about. Downey gives Peters another crosscheck to the chest and skates off. He got whistled for crosschecking and Buffalo got the PP.

Well, you finally got your wish didn't you? Downey took some stupid penalties in a preseason game so now you can be on his case about how enforcers always take stupid penalties and stuff like that. Last year everyone was worried about all the dumb penalties he'd supposedly take and nothing of the sort happened.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Zetterberg was invisible out there last night. It's time we let him go for better prospects in the future.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Zetterberg was invisible out there last night. It's time we let him go for better prospects in the future.

Z didn't play last night.

But point taken.