Ducks Re-Name Scott Niedermayer Captain

[egroen 384]

egroen, what exactly would "piss you off" about Stevie or Nick unretiring mid-season? Surely you have followed sports long enough to see the plethora of superstars retire, only to unretire. Michael Jordan, Hasek, Favre, etc.....

If Yzerman decided to "unretire" I would have no problem with it... but that is not what Neidermayer, their captain, did. He held the team captive by NOT making any decision whatsoever. He did not retire, he did not say he would play, he just did nothing... that is a terrible position to put a team and GM in, and there are still paying for it.

I lost respect for Favre because he whined to the press when it looked like the team had moved on after his retirement and he might only get the backup position. If Yzerman came out of retirement, I highly doubt he would be whining if he only made it back as a 4th liner, or even did not make the team at all.

[egroen 384]

GS&T - Are you seriously implying it would be fine and dandy and peachy keen if Lidstrom just sat at home for most of next season, not sure if he wanted to play out his contract or not.

Edited October 8, 2008 by egroen

[Cern 0]

Ever ******* heard of Brett Favre people? It happens.

I have, and I thought Farve was totally classless to completely change his mind and expect the entire franchise to automatically bow to his will when they already committed to move on without him. It's the sports equivalent of a spoiled rock star demanding a bowl of M&Ms with all the green ones picked out by hand. If I was so indecisive as to quit and rejoin a job within weeks, I'd probably be out of a ******* job. Why should Farve have expected anything less?

Edited October 8, 2008 by Cern

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

People have alot of nerve still badmouthing Niedermayer and insinuating what he did last year was contrived or that he colluded with Brian Burke to help the Ducks. NO EVIDENCE that I am aware of backs any of the accusations or inflammatory bulls*** being spewed by less intelligent Wings fans around here.

Burke gave a press conference later in the year on what happened with Scott. He said Scott left him basically in the dark on his decisions and that Burke got pissed off when he found out through a third party that Scott was ready to come back.

It could be bulls***. But I watched the presser and I believe Burke was being truthful.

IMO, there's nothing more to this situation other than a player not being able to come to grips with leaving the game he loves. Ever ******* heard of Brett Favre people? It happens.

IMO, they did the right thing last year not stripping the "C" from Pronger. IMO, Pronger could've or should've offered it to Scott as he truly was their Captain. That being said, I don't know if Prongs offered it to him or not so I cannot say.

IMO, the Ducks are doing the right thing now honoring a long time, great player in Niedermayer by renaming him Captain. Getzlaf's time will come. But not while Nieds is still suiting up for them.

It's one thing to know something is fishy. It's another for it to simply look fishy or not agree with your own thoughts. Until somebody proves to me that the Ducks, Burke, Scott did something shady in collusion with each other to circumvent the cap then i'll give them the benefit of the doubt. That's the great thing about America. You're innocent until proven guilty.

So somebody proffer up some cold, hard evidence please before continuing this bulls***, phony hatred of the Ducks, Burke, Scott for something you think happened but cannot prove.

If you want to hate the Ducks, hate them for something legitimate like them beating us when we should've won. Like them playing dirty and trying to rough us up. At least that's the reason why I hate them and want to beat the s*** out of them every single time we play.

As you probably remember, at the time I figured it had to be some advanced thing Niedermayer and Burke had worked out. A big part of that was because I found it harder to believe that Scott would put his team in such a bad situation, and easier to believe Burke would exploit every loophole he could find.

But more and more, you're right. It looks like Niedermayer really did leave Burke in the dark. And it really f*cked that team over. Honestly I don't think Niedermayer should get the C back. Not because he allegedly colluded with Burke, but because he didn't behave in the best interest of the team. Yes retirement is a difficult thing, but he took it to the extreme, and look at the Ducks lineup as a result of all the cap-related moves Burke has had to make.

And it's not about Niedermayer being classy, though up until last year I thought he was. I honestly think they should have kept it with Pronger. He's likely not going anywhere, he's dedicated, and love him or hate him, he is a good leader. Whereas Niedermayer may be gone next season. And the Ducks could probably use some stability.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I have, and I thought Farve was totally classless to completely change his mind and expect the entire franchise to automatically bow to his will when they already committed to move on without him. It's the sports equivalent of a spoiled rock star demanding a bowl of M&Ms with all the green ones picked out by hand. If I was so indecisive as to quit and rejoin a job within weeks, I'd probably be out of a ******* job. Why should Farve have expected anything less?

Off topic, but if you're going to insinuate something you might want to make sure what you're saying is accurate. This comment is not. Favre had every intention of competing for his job back, he didn't expect it to get handed back to him.

If Yzerman decided to "unretire" I would have no problem with it... but that is not what Neidermayer, their captain, did. He held the team captive by NOT making any decision whatsoever. He did not retire, he did not say he would play, he just did nothing... that is a terrible position to put a team and GM in, and there are still paying for it.

I lost respect for Favre because he whined to the press when it looked like the team had moved on after his retirement and he might only get the backup position. If Yzerman came out of retirement, I highly doubt he would be whining if he only made it back as a 4th liner, or even did not make the team at all.

Apples to Oranges. You're comparing *playing* every game on the fourth line to riding the pine.

Also, Favre never whined to the press. He simply said he wanted to come back and that Thompson didn't want him.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

GS&T - Are you seriously implying it would be fine and dandy and peachy keen if Lidstrom just sat at home for most of next season, not sure if he wanted to play out his contract or not.

ABSOLUTELY!

Lidstrom's life is his own. He is under no obligation to continue playing hockey whatsoever. If he decided tomorrow that he was favoring retirement but wasn't sure, then so be it. It'd be up to the organization to fill the void. If he decided to come back mid-season, if league rules allowed it I would be all for it.

And PS. So would you and everybody else.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I have, and I thought Farve was totally classless to completely change his mind and expect the entire franchise to automatically bow to his will when they already committed to move on without him. It's the sports equivalent of a spoiled rock star demanding a bowl of M&Ms with all the green ones picked out by hand. If I was so indecisive as to quit and rejoin a job within weeks, I'd probably be out of a ******* job. Why should Farve have expected anything less?

That's not the way it went down so far as I heard.

I heard that when Brett couldn't be guaranteed the starting job he asked the Packers to release him.

Must've been a tough decision for him to make and tough for the Packers. But if he was such an icon for the Packers, why hold the man hostage as a backup. He wanted to play, he earned the right to play somewhere else. If you're the Packers, make the prudent move and release him or trade him for something.

The point is Favre wanted to come back to the Packers and when they said no he wanted to be released. Doesn't seem so difficult to understand IMO.

Yes, he was the property of the Packers technically so they didn't have to release him or trade him at all. But why keep the man from playing? Why punish him? If he's a Green Bay legend you don't punish him. You don't keep him out of the NFL. You work to find a solution.

And they did.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

You remember incorrectly, remember Modo's woman running her mouth about how disrespectful that was!

Dallas Star News

Well he def reconciled these thoughts, and obviously didn't protest it.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

As you probably remember, at the time I figured it had to be some advanced thing Niedermayer and Burke had worked out. A big part of that was because I found it harder to believe that Scott would put his team in such a bad situation, and easier to believe Burke would exploit every loophole he could find.

But more and more, you're right. It looks like Niedermayer really did leave Burke in the dark. And it really f*cked that team over. Honestly I don't think Niedermayer should get the C back. Not because he allegedly colluded with Burke, but because he didn't behave in the best interest of the team. Yes retirement is a difficult thing, but he took it to the extreme, and look at the Ducks lineup as a result of all the cap-related moves Burke has had to make.

And it's not about Niedermayer being classy, though up until last year I thought he was. I honestly think they should have kept it with Pronger. He's likely not going anywhere, he's dedicated, and love him or hate him, he is a good leader. Whereas Niedermayer may be gone next season. And the Ducks could probably use some stability.

Solid points Harold. And you're right about Pronger, love him or hate him he can lead. For all we know he offered to return the C to Scott. For all we know Scott didn't ask for it? Who knows what happened. Maybe the Ducks should've kept it with Prongs. I don't know. Either way I think they still have a good team and will be even better than they were last year.

As for Niedermayer, i'm not going to pass judgment on anybody who has to make that type of life altering decision. If somebody ragged on me about a decision as big as that I'd tell them to mind their own ******* business before I smack 'em.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Off topic, but if you're going to insinuate something you might want to make sure what you're saying is accurate. This comment is not. Favre had every intention of competing for his job back, he didn't expect it to get handed back to him.

Apples to Oranges. You're comparing *playing* every game on the fourth line to riding the pine.

Also, Favre never whined to the press. He simply said he wanted to come back and that the Thompson didn't want him.

Wow, if that is indeed true, then I have even more sympathy for Brett.

[Opie 308]

Well he def reconciled these thoughts, and obviously didn't protest it.

That would be like Yzerman complaining about ice time, not going to happen. Mike Modano was a North Star he was/is the face of that Org, he has known no other team. If he came out ripping the org because he is no longer the 'C', then it looks like he shouldn't have worn the 'C' to begin with, because he was not team oriented.

As the article I posted states very very rarely do you ever see this done because it looks like the Org has lost all faith in the guy, this may have been the right move for the future but a disrespectful one.

Think of it this way, at the start of the season the Wings take the ice and Lids is an A again and Z has the C on. Would that seem right, granted Z is for all intents and purposes the future C, but what good does it do you to give it to him now, what harm is caused by waiting until the C retires. Weigh that against what harm is caused by stripping the C from the face of your Org.

[VM1138 1,921]

He still stands for what it means to be captain more than Pronger ever will, at least.

That's like saying Hitler is better than Satan.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Off topic, but if you're going to insinuate something you might want to make sure what you're saying is accurate. This comment is not. Favre had every intention of competing for his job back, he didn't expect it to get handed back to him.

Apples to Oranges. You're comparing *playing* every game on the fourth line to riding the pine.

Also, Favre never whined to the press. He simply said he wanted to come back and that the Thompson didn't want him.

Then the Packers called his bluff and told him ok, you can compete...then Favre asked for a trade

[Konnan511 1,736]

Well he def reconciled these thoughts, and obviously didn't protest it.

After asking around this is the answer I found for the whole Modano issue:

Well, I’m sure others have there own POV on the subject. I try not to read into it that much. A lot of folks here in Dallas really started pounding Modano when he was captain, because at the time we weren’t having much success in the PO’s, and his play diminished slightly due to age, and abuse he’s taken in his years.

So by him being captain, it appeared that he took more criticism than usual, which was a big distraction IMO for him and the team.

All I can say is, he didn’t show much leadership on the ice, because at that point in his career, he was working on getting his own game together, and didn’t have much left for the team.

Morrow being younger, and more relentless stepped up, and was giving 110% each game. So naturally his play by example was more than perfect for a captain.

Which gave modano some breathing room to clear the cobwebs out.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

All hatred and rage aside (which is what this thread has seem to become), I find this move to be poor. I don't care for Pronger or the cheapshots he just can't seem to get enough of, but to strip him of his captaincy after one season where the team as a whole just wasn't balanced enough to repeat is weak, IMO.

Niedermayer bailed on his team last year until mid-season and the team moved on with Pronger as a result. To strip a player of that role with Prongers history of leadership seems like a low blow to him unless something transpired in the locker room that we don't know about.

...the female sports writers were starting to be too much of a distration!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Then the Packers called his bluff and told him ok, you can compete...then Favre asked for a trade

Incorrect, the report you're referring to was proven false a few hours after it was released.

Earlier in the ordeal Thompson said Favre could come back, but that his role on the Packers may have changed (meaning he would be the backup to Rodgers). When Favre decided to come to camp Thompson moved him as quickly as possible.

Wow, if that is indeed true, then I have even more sympathy for Brett.

It is true. He was quoted as saying something such as "let me compete for the job and we'll see who's the best QB at the end of preseason".

NOTE: Sorry OP, this belongs in the Other Sports forum.

[egroen 384]

ABSOLUTELY!

Lidstrom's life is his own. He is under no obligation to continue playing hockey whatsoever. If he decided tomorrow that he was favoring retirement but wasn't sure, then so be it. It'd be up to the organization to fill the void. If he decided to come back mid-season, if league rules allowed it I would be all for it.

And PS. So would you and everybody else.

You are such a weirdo (not necessarily a bad thing, mind you)...

Have you even played team sports? Have you ever been a captain? I can not imagine just sitting out because you're not sure if you want to play or not... especially as a captain. What sort of message does that send to your team? At a pro level, the implications are exponentially increased because your actions directly affect the GMs team personel decisions, and even more so with a salary cap.

Bad captain. Pretty simple... does not make him a bad person, but that is a terrible thing to put your GM and team through as a captain of a team. Maybe you would be fine with that as a player, but I would be really disappointed in my captain and obviously disheartened at his lack of drive and passion for the team. Would not exactly inspire me to give my 110% every night.

Edited October 8, 2008 by egroen

[Dabura 12,232]

You are such a weirdo (not necessarily a bad thing, mind you)...

Have you even played team sports? Have you ever been a captain? I can not imagine just sitting out because you're not sure if you want to play or not... especially as a captain. What sort of message does that send to your team? At a pro level, the implications are exponentially increased because your actions directly affect the GMs team personel decisions, and even more so with a salary cap.

Bad captain. Pretty simple... does not make him a bad person, but that is a terrible thing to put your GM and team through as a captain of a team. Maybe you would be fine with that as a player, but I would be really disappointed in my captain and obviously disheartened at his lack of drive and passion for the team. Would not exactly inspire me to give my 110% every night.

Not sure I've ever fully agreed with you -- until now.

It's one thing to say, "Give me a couple of weeks. You'll have my decision then." It's quite another to do what Niedermayer did (twice!), knowingly handicapping his team for an extended period of time because he, the "leader," couldn't find it in himself to make a yes or no decision within a time frame that would be in the team's best interest. "Hey man, give him his space, he's only human" is an argument you make for someone who's calling in sick for his 9-to-5 job at Staples because he's clinically depressed -- not for the anointed leader of a multi-million dollar professional sports team who, bottom line, shot his team and franchise in its collective foot, and then had the nerve to flirt with that scenario a second time! If he were Tom Brady (i.e., "Gisele Bündchen vs. Work"), then yeah, I might give him a pass.

[Shaman 713]

Not sure I've ever fully agreed with you -- until now.

It's one thing to say, "Give me a couple of weeks. You'll have my decision then." It's quite another to do what Niedermayer did (twice!), knowingly handicapping his team for an extended period of time because he, the "leader," couldn't find it in himself to make a yes or no decision within a time frame that would be in the team's best interest. "Hey man, give him his space, he's only human" is an argument you make for someone who's calling in sick for his 9-to-5 job at Staples because he's clinically depressed -- not for the anointed leader of a multi-million dollar professional sports team who, bottom line, shot his team and franchise in its collective foot, and then had the nerve to flirt with that scenario a second time! If he were Tom Brady (i.e., "Gisele Bündchen vs. Work"), then yeah, I might give him a pass.

But, it doesnt make him a bad leader, Pronger was named captain, it wasnt like 'hey you decided to come back, here take the C from Pronger's chest, hes not using it anyway'. Retirement is a very personal decision and all i can say from what i heard is that there was no conspiracy from other side, of course nieds didnt want to hurt his team, I mean s*** if for any other reason then his brother plays on it and he may come back.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Shaman464

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

People have alot of nerve still badmouthing Niedermayer and insinuating what he did last year was contrived or that he colluded with Brian Burke to help the Ducks. NO EVIDENCE that I am aware of backs any of the accusations or inflammatory bulls*** being spewed by less intelligent Wings fans around here.

Burke gave a press conference later in the year on what happened with Scott. He said Scott left him basically in the dark on his decisions and that Burke got pissed off when he found out through a third party that Scott was ready to come back.

It could be bulls***. But I watched the presser and I believe Burke was being truthful.

IMO, there's nothing more to this situation other than a player not being able to come to grips with leaving the game he loves. Ever ******* heard of Brett Favre people? It happens.

IMO, they did the right thing last year not stripping the "C" from Pronger. IMO, Pronger could've or should've offered it to Scott as he truly was their Captain. That being said, I don't know if Prongs offered it to him or not so I cannot say.

IMO, the Ducks are doing the right thing now honoring a long time, great player in Niedermayer by renaming him Captain. Getzlaf's time will come. But not while Nieds is still suiting up for them.

It's one thing to know something is fishy. It's another for it to simply look fishy or not agree with your own thoughts. Until somebody proves to me that the Ducks, Burke, Scott did something shady in collusion with each other to circumvent the cap then i'll give them the benefit of the doubt. That's the great thing about America. You're innocent until proven guilty.

So somebody proffer up some cold, hard evidence please before continuing this bulls***, phony hatred of the Ducks, Burke, Scott for something you think happened but cannot prove.

If you want to hate the Ducks, hate them for something legitimate like them beating us when we should've won. Like them playing dirty and trying to rough us up. At least that's the reason why I hate them and want to beat the s*** out of them every single time we play.

Dont get me wrong GST, that's why I hate them too. I just didnt like the Niedermayer thing, it pissed me off because I already hated the Ducks enough. I've made posts last year, where I said it would've been much sweeter to win the Cup by going through Anaheim. BTW, I also enjoyed Downeys beatdown of Parros

[Dabura 12,232]

But, it doesnt make him a bad leader

It does, though. He put himself before the team -- and in a really s***ty way, at that. And then he went and flirted with doing it again. That's not good leadership.

I'm not saying he's not a good captain. But he's showing his true colors, and they're not especially admirable.