10/11 GDT: Red Wings 3, Senators 2

[henrik40 76]

WOOO wings win!

[Heaton 1]

Actually yea, look at what I just said.

So should I lump you into the Flip is going to have 70 points this season and he is a superstar because of his playoff goal group too or?

No, no one is going to get 70 points a year playing on a 3rd line with no PP time. However, if Datsyuk and Z get back together there's no one more qualified to center Hossa. Filppula will not score more than 50 points this year since the line for the premium scoring lines are longer than ever.

[Matt 1,048]

Babs put ZDH on the ice together during a PP, next shift was Franzen - Flip - Hossa, then the powerplay was over. That's pretty much it.

Again, I'll have to back to the DVR to check for sure, but if I remember correctly that happened some time into the power play itself and was the result of a partial linechange. The Franzen-Flip-Hossa unit came out at the tail end and was still on the ice at even strength. It was necessitated by Z-D-H being out there and not changing long enough it didn't make sense to keep Zetterberg on the ice to keep him with his line.

[Heaton 1]

At the same time, theres a difference between being a skilled offensive player and an intelligent offensive player. Filppula doesnt have the presence of mind to be the puck carrier and distributor to an elite winger. Hes got skill, no doubt, but hes lost on a top offensive line. Thats why his offensive play is more or less conducive to a fast paced "checking" (Im using that term liberally) line as opposed to the PP. Filppula is like the antithesis of Robert Lang.

That remains to be seen, he's never played with an elite scorer. I doubt Fil will ever scored 60 points consistently but his offensive "deficiencies" are greatly overblown.

[dallas27 7]

Sorry dallas, you need to go back and watch some games of Hossa back in his Atlanta days. Filppula is a hall of famer compared to his centers there.

I don't give a s*** about comparing Flip to centers in Atlanta. That means ABSOLUTELY nothing. Are those centers on this team now? I'll give you a minute.

No. You have Datsyuk, Hudler and Flip. You can even throw Hank in there too. Flip is the last option.

[Guest DetroitBoy313]

I seen a good Wings team tonight.When the lines start clicking it's gonna be something else.It's been 2 games and our best players haven't even scored yet (Datsyuk,Zetterberg,Hossa) respectively.People read too much into the first few games.Rangers are 4-0,the way everyone is acting here s*** just give the Rangers the cup already.Wings win and you guys are still complaining,wow!!

[Matt 1,048]

You must let us freely express ourselves. We sit. Alone. And cry. Black. Tears. Staring into the sky. My knee. It jerks. Left and right. No ZDH? My face. Pale and white.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

The fact you're wasting time arguing it is stupid. But it is good for a laugh, so I'll give you that.

I think its more of an indication that you dont have anything left to argue with.

As I said in the original post, I recall that shift as a result of a partial line change and NOT something that was intended late in the game. I don't see how Babcock is going to go and shuffle the power-play units 2 games into the season regardless of what was going on during the game. Each unit is the Red Wings' top two lines and if he's not going to shuffle the main units there's even more reason not to do so with the power play. The only reason it was "together" on Thursday was due to the extra attacker.

Yet the sequence of changes and time of the game would indicate otherwise, as typically the perfect time to make a change is late in a game when youre in need of a goal.

It isn't "extreme" when taking into consideration some of the posts here over the last three days and mindfly's occasional penchant for left-field posts in the past.

You are the boss. You can feel free to ban "irrational" posting whenever you feel.

[Heaton 1]

I don't give a s*** about comparing Flip to centers in Atlanta. That means ABSOLUTELY nothing. Are those centers on this team now? I'll give you a minute.

No. You have Datsyuk, Hudler and Flip. You can even throw Hank in there too. Flip is the last option.

Well, if Datsyuk and Z aren't centering him since they're back together who is going to center him? Hudler isn't an NHL center. I'm really confused why you seem to dislike Filppula so much, are you just trying to overcompensate for the people who "overrate" him?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

That remains to be seen, he's never played with an elite scorer. I doubt Fil will ever scored 60 points consistently but his offensive "deficiencies" are greatly overblown.

Hes never played with an elite scorer on a consistent basis. But thats not to say that he hasnt had his chance with elite scorers. It speaks more to the fact that he hasnt been able to prove that he can keep it that way.

I think Flip can still be a 20-25 goal scorer, but I just dont see him as a top 2 center. His goals are almost always the result of his own efforts, which alone is a great type of player to have.

Edited October 12, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[Matt 1,048]

Okay, just watched the DVR of the purported powerplay line where Z-D-H were together. This was the short power play because Draper was already in the box, and in the sequence that it happened 1) Hossa was on the ice helping kill the current Detroit penalty the shift earlier and 2) at the tail end of the 4-on-4 Datsyuk and Zetterberg were already on the ice during 4-on-4 play after Cleary and Filppula started it.

I'd hardly call that a "change" the power play unit considering Hossa was out just shift earlier helping kill a power play and Holmstrom was sitting on the bench the entire time.

Again, when Babcock has a faceoff and trots out Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Holmstrom together as a unit is when we'll talk about Babcock actively "changing the lines to get a spark".

It wasn't tonight.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

Oh my God, we won. We came back from behind and won! After the last game I was certain the Wings were doomed, now they are the best damn team in hockey. Franzen, MVP! Bring on Lord Stanley again!!!!

[norrisnick 1]

Simple. You don't put Z and Pavel back together.

Whatever else happens you don't deviate from Z, Pavel, Fil, and Draper as our 4 centers. Our center depth along with our defensive depth is what will carry our team. Don't waste it.

[Heaton 1]

Hes never played with an elite scorer on a consistent basis. But thats not to say that he hasnt had his chance with elite scorers. It speaks more to the fact that he hasnt been able to prove that he can keep it that way.

I think Flip can still be a 20-25 goal scorer, but I just dont see him as a top 2 center. His goals are almost always the result of his own efforts, which alone is a great type of player to have.

Well of course he isn't the perfect choice for a top 2 center at this point of his career how many 23 or 24 year old 2nd line centers are out there on elite teams? At this point he's a perfect 3rd line center but if Datsyuk and Z are together, Filppula is the best guy to center the 2nd line with Hossa. That's what I'm saying - there's no one else on the roster who can anchor that line.

[dallas27 7]

Well, if Datsyuk and Z aren't centering him since they're back together who is going to center him? Hudler isn't an NHL center. I'm really confused why you seem to dislike Filppula so much, are you just trying to overcompensate for the people who "overrate" him?

Hudler. He has way more offensive awareness than Flip. You don't stick defensive centers with someone like Hossa.

I don't dislike Flip at all, read any other thread I talk about him in. He has the potential to be a top 2 line guy and a 60-70 point guy. But the fact of the matter is he isn't anywhere near that this year. He is an excellent defensive forward that you don't have to worry about coughing up the puck, he's solid. He IS, he IS a perfect third line center on this team. There is a reason why Babcock quickly pulled that line off the ice. If he wanted to give them a chance he would have left them out more than 15 seconds.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Okay, just watched the DVR of the purported powerplay line where Z-D-H were together. This was the short power play because Draper was already in the box, and on the shift that it happened 1) Hossa was on the ice helping kill the current penalty and 2) at the tail end of the 4-on-4 Datsyuk and Zetterberg were already on the ice during 4-on-4 play.

I'd hardly call that a "change" the power play unit considering Hossa was out just shift earlier helping kill a power play and Holmstrom was sitting on the bench the entire time.

And by that same token, Datsyuk and Zetterberg dont play together on the 4 on 4. Its been Hossa and Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Franzen. So why didnt he go with Franzen and Zetterberg?

...and Im asking this question seriously cause I cant see a replay. Was Franzen just coming off a shift? Also, Hossa and Datsyuk had been a regular PK unit so far in the game, so why did he NOT go with Hossa and Datsyuk when he knew the PP was coming up after the respective penalties no longer cancelled one another out?

Edited October 12, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[Heaton 1]

Simple. You don't put Z and Pavel back together.

Whatever else happens you don't deviate from Z, Pavel, Fil, and Draper as our 4 centers. Our center depth along with our defensive depth is what will carry our team. Don't waste it.

Exactly but we're not debating that, we're debating semantics of a fairy tale.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Well of course he isn't the perfect choice for a top 2 center at this point of his career how many 23 or 24 year old 2nd line centers are out there on elite teams? At this point he's a perfect 3rd line center but if Datsyuk and Z are together, Filppula is the best guy to center the 2nd line with Hossa. That's what I'm saying - there's no one else on the roster who can anchor that line.

And thats the reason why I dont think Babs would ever go back to the ZDH line 5 on 5. The PP is a different story. We've seen Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen as the 2nd unit last year. So going with Franzen as the center for the 2nd PP unit, and Hossa and Hudler on the wings, thats entirely feasible.

[Uncle Danny 155]

Sorry for not wading through 28 pages to see if this was already discussed, but Flip was 73% on faceoffs tonight? 11/15 ???? Dayuhm!!!!!

[Heaton 1]

And thats the reason why I dont think Babs would ever go back to the ZDH line 5 on 5. The PP is a different story. We've seen Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen as the 2nd unit last year. So going with Franzen as the center for the 2nd PP unit, and Hossa and Hudler on the wings, thats entirely feasible.

The lines as is would have to be absolutely horrible for Babcock to throw everything out the window and go back to it. It's a great ace in the hole if there's an emergency but these are the lines (for the most part) as it'll stand. Hudler might go down, Samuelsson or Cleary might come up but Datsyuk and Z are staying apart.

[norrisnick 1]

Exactly but we're not debating that, we're debating semantics of a fairy tale.

Ok. In the fairy tale where Z and Pavel are together on a line... you slap Babcock upside the head and break them up.

If that won't work I'd prefer Franzen taking the draws and shifting to the wing with Hudler in the middle. Hudler can properly distribute the puck. Much better than Filppula can.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

That remains to be seen, he's never played with an elite scorer. I doubt Fil will ever scored 60 points consistently but his offensive "deficiencies" are greatly overblown.

Again, I dont see Filppula as being "deficient offensively." I just don't see him as a playmaking center, which is what an elite scorer needs.

[Guest Shoreline]

Exactly but we're not debating that, we're debating semantics of a fairy tale.

Anyone else watch the show I dream of ZDH?

Edited October 12, 2008 by Shoreline

[YoungGuns1340 1]

The lines as is would have to be absolutely horrible for Babcock to throw everything out the window and go back to it. It's a great ace in the hole if there's an emergency but these are the lines (for the most part) as it'll stand. Hudler might go down, Samuelsson or Cleary might come up but Datsyuk and Z are staying apart.

The PP is a different beast than 5 on 5, though. Again, this is a hypothetical matter as it is, and it doesnt really have anything to do with ZDH being split up so much as it does with Filppula being capable of playing with Hossa.

[Rivalred 630]

Ok. In the fairy tale where Z and Pavel are together on a line... you slap Babcock upside the head and break them up.

If that won't work I'd prefer Franzen taking the draws and shifting to the wing with Hudler in the middle. Hudler can properly distribute the puck. Much better than Filppula can.

Thank You NN!!!!

It all comes down to passing and who will get the puck to Hossa more effectively... Franzen and or Hudler...