10/11 GDT: Red Wings 3, Senators 2

[YoungGuns1340 1]

It is amazing on how many people think the sky is falling. 1st game back with new lines and lost by one goal. 2nd game they play, they win by 1 goal and one of the goals they surrendered was on a 5-3.

I am all for freedom of speech and letting ones express that, but please be a little more articulate about it. The Wing's have been one of the more consistent teams in the last 15 years. They just won the Cup and had an outstanding run in the playoffs. Where does anyone come off criticizing their play?

I chalk this one up to people getting too spoiled to the Wings dominating every aspect of the game. There is always room for improvement and they played a HELL of a lot better than they did Thursday night against TO.

Now, if any member here does not want to recognize that and all the other aspects, please just keep your outlandish comments to yourself. Matt usually does not say anything to someone unless it is total off the level, so take that information and chew on it for a while people.

I think you just answered that question yourself. For a team that just one the cup AND added the best UFA available, the expectations are incredibly high.

[Rivalred 630]

Some of these posts should get them committed.

I will even help them pick our their jacket size if you want.

[Cern 0]

Oh yeah. I forgot thats the reason why criticism existed! To change the minds of those controlling decisions. Someone go and call Roger and Ebert and tell them to put a stop to their useless criticism.

Good thing I rarely hold much weight in the opinions of media critics because sure enough, their criticism IS useless. Anyone can be paid off enough to say a movie/game/book is good, and I've found myself suckered into enough duds on account of 'critical acclaim' to be suspicious of most of it.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Cern

[Rivalred 630]

I think you just answered that question yourself. For a team that just one the cup AND added the best UFA available, the expectations are incredibly high.

If you read my post from the other night, the dynamics of the team has changed. The lines have been shuffled and it will take time for the players to get accustom to that. I directly came out and said it may be a long month, it is a learning process. The Wing's are good at adapting, learning from their mistakes, accepting them, and moving forward respectively. The public needs to be aware of that and respond accordingly. Being overly emotional never resolves a debate or a conflict; philosophy 101.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Rivalred

[dallas27 7]

But then he had Flip out there centering Hossa and Franzen and....that didnt look so hot.

That's a surprise..................................................................Babs should still put ZDH back together and have Flip center Hossa.

Sorry Flip lovers, but seeing that made me extremely happy, it is physical evidence that Flip has absolutely no right to be centering Hossa, so you can stop that whole charade. Even though the idea was ridiculous to begin with.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Good thing I rarely hold much weight in the opinions of media critics because sure enough, their criticism IS useless. Anyone can be paid off enough to say a movie/game/book is good, and I've found myself suckered into enough duds on account of 'critical acclaim'.

There are plenty of things useless. If you want to get down to it, this board is useless depending on what you consider to be utility. At any rate, this has turned into an epic exaggeration on both sides and at this point, Im lost, as evidence by my projected disassociative disorder on Roger Ebert.

If you read my post from the other night, the dynamics of the team has changed. The lines have been shuffled and it will take time for the players to get accustom to that. I directly came out and said it may be a long month, it is a learning process. The Wing's are good at adapting, learning from their mistakes, accepting them, and moving forward respectively. The public needs to be aware of that and respond accordingly. Being overly emotional never resolves a debate or a conflict; philosophy 101.

"Overly emotional" is again, pure subjectivity. I myself said the same thing both tonight and today - that both players would take time to get accustomed to one another - but that doesnt explain the tendency to pass through blocked lanes, Hossas inconsistent energy, the D pairings apparent lack of communication (who know each other incredibly well), Zs inability to protec the puck, and the nearly non-existant usage of the body, especially on the back-end, for example. Those things werent expected, and that leads to harsh criticism. And Ill be the first to profess to that, especially when the two teams weve played so far are at best middle of the pack squads, yet weve made them look very good.

Edited October 12, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[Vladiator 116]

Stupid DVR cut off with 3 minutes left in the game. Was able to watch the post game to see Franzen's GWG. The Wings looked way better than the last game but there is a lot of room for improvement. The lines still aren't clicking but when they do it's gonna be sick.

[Rivalred 630]

Honestly, Hudler or Franzen would do a better job centering Hossa than Flip in my opinion.

[Matt 1,048]

Haha. Theres none of either. Criticism is, by nature, subjective.

Sure, it's subjective. Lots of things are. Hell, I'd guess that being considered "irrational" or "rational" in the general sense is "subjective" then, too. Let's not argue semantics -- it's stupid.

Again, where are these posts coming from? Mindfly made a comment about Nicks visor in jest, and then suggested some changes to the PP which Babcock did in the game himself. So whats the problem again?

When Babcock makes wholesale changes to his lines (that includes the power play) -- then get back to me. One shift in a game isn't a permanent change. I'd have to go back to the recording, but at least once was because of a partial line change that made it appear they were put out on the ice together.

[FinRedWing 172]

That's a surprise..................................................................Babs should still put ZDH back together and have Flip center Hossa.

Sorry Flip lovers, but seeing that made me extremely happy, it is physical evidence that Flip has absolutely no right to be centering Hossa, so you can stop that whole charade. Even though the idea was ridiculous to begin with.

And I thought you said Hossa can do whatever he wants?

He needs linemates now?

And btw - wasn't Fil centering Hossa like one shift so way to jump to conclusions,people.

[Cern 0]

There are plenty of things useless. If you want to get down to it, this board is useless depending on what you consider to be utility. At any rate, this has turned into an epic exaggeration on both sides and at this point, Im lost, as evidence by my projected disassociative disorder on Roger Ebert.

This forum is useful in the sense that I can get information about the team that I, living on the other end of the continent, probably wouldn't have quite as easy a time of acquiring without. The rollercoaster exaggerations people make on it are an unfortunate byproduct of what otherwise has been a decent source of information.

Media critics are useless in the sense that their opinions can simply be bought and ergo are by definition untrustworthy in what they support and reject.

In other news, Bertuzzi just scored. My joke pick from my fantasy draft (everyone in my pool made one - one guy even picked Sundin lol) might not be as entirely useless as once thought.

[Matt 1,048]

The bottom line for me is we're 120 minutes into the season. 2 games. If you're going to rant for changes then wait until you've got at least a good test sample.

Two games is NOT it.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Sure, it's subjective. Lots of things are. Hell, I'd guess that being considered "irrational" or "rational" in the general sense is "subjective" then, too. Let's not argue semantics -- it's stupid.

Its not semantics. Again, its subjectivity. What is "irrational criticsm" or "rational criticims" is purely of your opinion. And that is not stupid, but a fact.

When Babcock makes wholesale changes to his lines (that includes the power play) -- then get back to me. One shift in a game isn't a permanent change. I'd have to go back to the recording, but at least once was because of a partial line change that made it appear they were put out on the ice together.

It doesnt matter if it was a whole sale change. There was a problem, and Babcock saw that and adjusted to it late in the game when things werent picking up. THerefore, in Babcocks mind, changing the lines was not an "irrational" move at the time, but rational. And for you to call Mindflys comments vomit-inducing were a little extreme for a guy who was suggesting something that was obviously a consideration - whether longterm or short - on the part of the coach.

[Matt 1,048]

In other news, Bertuzzi just scored. My joke pick from my fantasy draft (everyone in my pool made one - one guy even picked Sundin lol) might not be as entirely useless as once thought.

Ah, but did you play him?

[dallas27 7]

And I thought you said Hossa can do whatever he wants?

He needs linemates now?

And btw - wasn't Fil centering Hossa like one shift so way to jump to conclusions,people.

He can do whatever he wants but he can't do everything, something of which he would have to do if Flip were to center him.

He was centering Hossa for one shift, that of which lasted a whole, what, 15 seconds, and that is ALL that was NEEDED for Babcock to realize that it was a horrible idea. Look, you're Finnish, I fully expect you to defend Flip 'til the death. But he is a perfect third line center and a 45 point guy, as I have said before. No right to be centering Hossa, who in all likelihood will have close to 100 points at the end of the season. Today proved that.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

This forum is useful in the sense that I can get information about the team that I, living on the other end of the continent, probably wouldn't have quite as easy a time of acquiring without. The rollercoaster exaggerations people make on it are an unfortunate byproduct of what otherwise has been a decent source of information.

Media critics are useless in the sense that their opinions can simply be bought and ergo are by definition untrustworthy in what they support and reject.

In other news, Bertuzzi just scored. My joke pick from my fantasy draft (everyone in my pool made one - one guy even picked Sundin lol) might not be as entirely useless as once thought.

And the option to ignore it is there. For someone who suggests respectability, theres always the option to give it to others. If youre watching the game, then the GDT isnt offering much information in the way of the game - its almost always a source of passion, criticism, freak-out, condescension, and debate more than anything.

[Heaton 1]

That's a surprise..................................................................Babs should still put ZDH back together and have Flip center Hossa.

Sorry Flip lovers, but seeing that made me extremely happy, it is physical evidence that Flip has absolutely no right to be centering Hossa, so you can stop that whole charade. Even though the idea was ridiculous to begin with.

Yeah a 25 second shift is all the evidence we need!

[Cern 0]

Ah, but did you play him?

I did, actually. I'm in a ridiculously large fantasy pool - 16 people - so after three rounds of picks it starts becoming a matter of picking whoever has the coolest remaining name since the players start getting so mediocre. I have people on my bench I've never even heard of before, all of us are screwed if any of our players get injured.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Cern

[Z and D for the C 712]

When Babcock makes wholesale changes to his lines (that includes the power play) -- then get back to me. One shift in a game isn't a permanent change. I'd have to go back to the recording, but at least once was because of a partial line change that made it appear they were put out on the ice together.

Babs put ZDH on the ice together during a PP, next shift was Franzen - Flip - Hossa, then the powerplay was over. That's pretty much it.

[Heaton 1]

He can do whatever he wants but he can't do everything, something of which he would have to do if Flip were to center him.

He was centering Hossa for one shift, that of which lasted a whole, what, 15 seconds, and that is ALL that was NEEDED for Babcock to realize that it was a horrible idea. Look, you're Finnish, I fully expect you to defend Flip 'til the death. But he is a perfect third line center and a 45 point guy, as I have said before. No right to be centering Hossa, who in all likelihood will have close to 100 points at the end of the season. Today proved that.

Sorry dallas, you need to go back and watch some games of Hossa back in his Atlanta days. Filppula is a hall of famer compared to his centers there.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

He can do whatever he wants but he can't do everything, something of which he would have to do if Flip were to center him.

He was centering Hossa for one shift, that of which lasted a whole, what, 15 seconds, and that is ALL that was NEEDED for Babcock to realize that it was a horrible idea. Look, you're Finnish, I fully expect you to defend Flip 'til the death. But he is a perfect third line center and a 45 point guy, as I have said before. No right to be centering Hossa, who in all likelihood will have close to 100 points at the end of the season. Today proved that.

Flip, to me, is a guy thats going to accomplish his offense through simple plays or all on his own. His goal today was vintage Filppula. He used his speed and his shot to make things happen, not any fancy playmaking or playing off his teammates positioning. Thats why hes centering the third line, and its also why Babs isnt going to go right back to the ZDH line.

[dallas27 7]

Yeah a 25 second shift is all the evidence we need!

Actually yea, look at what I just said.

So should I lump you into the Flip is going to have 70 points this season and he is a superstar because of his playoff goal group too or?

[Matt 1,048]

Its not semantics. Again, its subjectivity. What is "irrational criticsm" or "rational criticims" is purely of your opinion. And that is not stupid, but a fact.

The fact you're wasting time arguing it is stupid. But it is good for a laugh, so I'll give you that.

It doesnt matter if it was a whole sale change. There was a problem, and Babcock saw that and adjusted to it late in the game when things werent picking up. THerefore, in Babcocks mind, changing the lines was not an "irrational" move at the time, but rational.

As I said in the original post, I recall that shift as a result of a partial line change and NOT something that was intended late in the game. I don't see how Babcock is going to go and shuffle the power-play units 2 games into the season regardless of what was going on during the game. Each unit is the Red Wings' top two lines and if he's not going to shuffle the main units there's even more reason not to do so with the power play. The only reason it was "together" on Thursday was due to the extra attacker.

And for you to call Mindflys comments vomit-inducing were a little extreme for a guy who was suggesting something that was obviously a consideration - whether longterm or short - on the part of the coach.

It isn't "extreme" when taking into consideration some of the posts here over the last three days and mindfly's occasional penchant for left-field posts in the past.

[Guest Shoreline]

There's rational criticism and irrational criticism. I'm seeing more of the latter.

Am I happy about the Red Wings' play to start the season? No, it's left a bit to be desired in all areas. Having said that, it's nothing that doesn't get fixed a few games into the season. Kinks work themselves out, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, etc...

But by no means is it "SHUFFLE THE LINES! TAKE OFF YOUR VISOR, NICK! WE'RE GOING TO LOSE IN THE FIRST ROUND!" rants that I've read over the last three days.

Some of these posts should get them committed.

You must let us freely express ourselves. We sit. Alone. And cry. Black. Tears. Staring into the sky. My knee. It jerks. Left and right. No ZDH? My face. Pale and white.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Sorry dallas, you need to go back and watch some games of Hossa back in his Atlanta days. Filppula is a hall of famer compared to his centers there.

At the same time, theres a difference between being a skilled offensive player and an intelligent offensive player. Filppula doesnt have the presence of mind to be the puck carrier and distributor to an elite winger. Hes got skill, no doubt, but hes lost on a top offensive line. Thats why his offensive play is more or less conducive to a fast paced "checking" (Im using that term liberally) line as opposed to the PP. Filppula is like the antithesis of Robert Lang.