Latest on Zetterberg talks

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Zetterberg will sign and Hossa is gone people.I mean I know im preaching to the choir but the only reason we even have Hossa is because Z and Franzen were already signed to deals well BELOW what they are really worth.I just say watch EVERY game POSSIBLE and enjoy this season because we have an awesome line up that most likely will look very different next year without Hossa.

I'm afraid so. It would take some sort of miracle to keep Hossa, Franzen and Z. Because as you point out, a lot of that is because we have two of them signed WELL below market value, and Hossa took a discount too. Plus the Wings have very little tied up in goaltending.

So you have a Conn Smythe winner making $2.9 million, a guy on pace for 50+ points and a ridiculously good goal scoring streak signed for $1.15, Hossa taking a discount on a one-year deal at $7.45, and only $2.5 million tied up in your goalie and backup. None of that is really sustainable.

[up2here 41]

So you know for a fact that Lids, Z, and Holland sat down and Lids said no, or that the 7.8 is a cap hit and would actually make 6.7 for the remainder of Lids career, or that Lids didn't say hey you know what this guy is part of this teams future and future 'C' let him earn more than me?

I ask because you seem pretty sure of your answer.

I say it because Holland was going to call Lidstrom to see if its ok Hossa made more than him so they obviously have an agreement. I doubt Hank would attempt to break it.

[Opie 308]

I say it because Holland was going to call Lidstrom to see if its ok Hossa made more than him so they obviously have an agreement. I doubt Hank would attempt to break it.

I see the two as completely different one is a one year wonder UFA.

The other is the future face of the franchise, Conn Smythe winner, future 'C', I would not be surprised if Lids ok'ed it for Dats or Z to make more than him.

Guys who came up through the org are looking to be Red Wings for life and even though it would be more than Lids makes, it would still be Z following Lids and Stevie and Shanny's lead of do what is best for the team and take a discount.

But that is only one man's opinion.

[up2here 41]

I see the two as completely different one is a one year wonder UFA.

The other is the future face of the franchise, Conn Smythe winner, future 'C', I would not be surprised if Lids ok'ed it for Dats or Z to make more than him.

Guys who came up through the org are looking to be Red Wings for life and even though it would be more than Lids makes, it would still be Z following Lids and Stevie and Shanny's lead of do what is best for the team and take a discount.

But that is only one man's opinion.

I would also hope that Hank gives us some kind of hometown discount. My original thought was that he would sign the same deal a Pavel give or take a few and I still beleive thats where he ends up. I hope I'm not wrong on this one because while Hank is worth 7.8mil, in the messed up sports world value system ,it would greatly hinder the teams ability to sign other players.

[Opie 308]

I would also hope that Hank gives us some kind of hometown discount. My original thought was that he would sign the same deal a Pavel give or take a few and I still beleive thats where he ends up. I hope I'm not wrong on this one because while Hank is worth 7.8mil, in the messed up sports world value system ,it would greatly hinder the teams ability to sign other players.

I also would ot be surprised in the least if he signed for less than Lids out of respect for Lids, that seems to be who he is.

But because of who Lids is I would not be surprised if he waived that "clause" for either Z or Dats. Hell I bet he would have let Hossa sign for 8, because he would see it as good for the team. I would have been pissed but I bet Lids would do it.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

I say it because Holland was going to call Lidstrom to see if its ok Hossa made more than him so they obviously have an agreement. I doubt Hank would attempt to break it.

I don't think it is really for Lids to say. You can't have too many people making equal to or greater than what Nick makes and still be with in cap restrictions. Ultimately, the number that Bettman gives is more important that the number that Nick "allows" others to be paid by Holland and Illitch.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I don't think it is really for Lids to say. You can't have too many people making equal to or greater than what Nick makes and still be with in cap restrictions. Ultimately, the number that Bettman gives is more important that the number that Nick "allows" others to be paid by Holland and Illitch.

Agreed. I doubt this something that Lids is even really a part of. Like he's the godfather and has to give the nod before someone can make more than him.

Lidstrom gave the Wings a hometown discount. It set an example for the team and Holland uses that as leverage in contract negotiations with the implication, "One of the greatest defenseman to ever play the game signed for 7.5 million to play here. Do you think you deserve more than him?"

[vladdy16 2,154]

I would also hope that Hank gives us some kind of hometown discount. My original thought was that he would sign the same deal a Pavel give or take a few and I still beleive thats where he ends up. I hope I'm not wrong on this one because while Hank is worth 7.8mil, in the messed up sports world value system ,it would greatly hinder the teams ability to sign other players.

Hank already gave us a huge hometown discount last time around. It's payoff time for him.

[Opie 308]

The only way both Hossa and Z stay is if they both feel so horrible about the economic crisis to take less pay to help out.

Other than that, see you later with a cap that will go down.

Hey btw where are all the people who swore the cap would be nearly 60m?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Hank already gave us a huge hometown discount last time around. It's payoff time for him.

It really wasn't a huge hometown discount at the time he signed that deal. The cap was only $39 million at that point and Z was fairly unproven. There was a fair chance he was going to turn into a great player, but elite was still up in the air. All in all, I think it was a fair deal at the time, with Kennly slightly winning, but not a huge discount.

*Now* though, he deserves up near $8 million on this Wings team, but I'm hoping he'll settle around $7.4-$7.6. The term will depend heavily on what he makes. If its 7 years, I expect the deal to be worth $7.6-$7.8. If its 10 years, it'll be closer to $7.3.

[norrisnick 1]

Agreed. I doubt this something that Lids is even really a part of. Like he's the godfather and has to give the nod before someone can make more than him.

Lidstrom gave the Wings a hometown discount. It set an example for the team and Holland uses that as leverage in contract negotiations with the implication, "One of the greatest defenseman to ever play the game signed for 7.5 million to play here. Do you think you deserve more than him?"

Did you not read any of those stories of Holland telling the tale of how he landed Hossa? Nick IS the godfather in this case and would have had to give the nod had Marian not told Holland not to bother calling the godfather. Kenny promised Nick that if he took a hit for the team that he wouldn't pay anyone else more than him. Marian was asking for more, Kenny told Marian he'd have to ask Nick, Marian asked how much Nick made, then said don't bother just give me the same.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Did you not read any of those stories of Holland telling the tale of how he landed Hossa? Nick IS the godfather in this case and would have had to give the nod had Marian not told Holland not to bother calling the godfather. Kenny promised Nick that if he took a hit for the team that he wouldn't pay anyone else more than him. Marian was asking for more, Kenny told Marian he'd have to ask Nick, Marian asked how much Nick made, then said don't bother just give me the same.

Apparently not. I saw many articles where Holland said he felt uncomfortable paying Hossa more than Lidstrom, but don't remember anything about actually going to Lidstrom to approve a salary above his own.

Not saying it didn't happen, but I also don't remember reading anything about Holland promising not to pay anyone more than Lidstrom if he took a hometown discount.

[Nick137 0]

If you wish to keep you head in the clouds, do not click on the following link:

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=54475

All I said was "IF" anyone can make it happen it would be Ken Holland. I didn't say I think it's going to happen. I wish it would! I am realistic and I do live on the ground not in the clouds. There's nothing wrong with being optimistic which is something that is sorely lacking on this board some times!!

[egroen 384]

Does bonuses count as cap?

Yes. Whether it is earned or not.

Edited December 4, 2008 by egroen

[norrisnick 1]

Apparently not. I saw many articles where Holland said he felt uncomfortable paying Hossa more than Lidstrom, but don't remember anything about actually going to Lidstrom to approve a salary above his own.

Not saying it didn't happen, but I also don't remember reading anything about Holland promising not to pay anyone more than Lidstrom if he took a hometown discount.

I can't find any of the good summaries of how it all went down, but did find this snippet from a TSN article.

"I asked what they were looking for," Holland told Landsberg. "It was north of 7.5 (million). I told them I was uncomfortable (having Hossa make more than Lidstrom).

"In the end, Marian Hossa told me to not bother calling Nik, one year at 7.45 - it was a done deal."

[Frozen-Man 144]

I have been wondering and am too lazy to do the research if someone else knows. Everyone keeps saying that the cap is going to go down next year. What if a team has no free agents and is under the cap this year. Then next year the cap goes down to a level that they are over. I assume the team has to trade or waive players to get under the new lower cap, is that correct. If so that is a horrible way to have the CBA set up where a team has to worry about lower caps in the future when they sign players.

[Viperar 16]

It'd be like comparing Lidstrom to a NBA player.

hahahaha :lol:

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I have been wondering and am too lazy to do the research if someone else knows. Everyone keeps saying that the cap is going to go down next year. What if a team has no free agents and is under the cap this year. Then next year the cap goes down to a level that they are over. I assume the team has to trade or waive players to get under the new lower cap, is that correct. If so that is a horrible way to have the CBA set up where a team has to worry about lower caps in the future when they sign players.

Yup, thats pretty much the way it goes. I grabbed a copy of the CBA a while ago because I was wondering the same thing. I originally thought they would issue some sort of referendum if the cap went down, like they did when the cap was first implemented. Maybe not reduce every players salary by 24% but maybe by allowing teams to buy out players without penalty against the cap.

But nope. Can't do that. You basically have to figure out a way to make it work on your own - buy-outs that count against the cap, waiver wire, or trades. I'm guessing its supposed to act as a deterrent from teams spending up to the absolute cap limit, which obviously hasn't worked.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I see the Hossa situation being incredibly different from the Zetterberg situation. To begin with, Hossa was going to be signing a contract for one year and one year only. That was known from the beginning of Hossa's interest. Secondly, Hossa wasn't a Wing. He didn't embody the Wings. He was essentially hopping on the coattails of the Wings.

Zetterberg is in a different situation. (1) Hes been a wing since "birth." (2) His winning the Conn Smythe as the Wings best player represents a passing of the torch between Lidstrom and Zetterberg and (3) Zetterbergs new contract will be much longer than one year, and by nature of that fact, will extend much longer than Lidstroms future tenure with the Wings. I don't think Lidstrom is going to get to dictate the pay of someone who will receive that designated salary long after hes gone. Especially when you consider the years for which Zetterberg will be signed on this contract will potentially be the best of his career, and that his role on this team (and his value to it) will only grow in Lidstroms absence.

Now, if you want to say hes gonna make less than Lidstrom does now because the cap is going down, then I could believe that. But I dont think its going to be because Zetterbergs salary is restricted by the "Nick Lidstrom Cap."

[Frozen-Man 144]

Yup, thats pretty much the way it goes. I grabbed a copy of the CBA a while ago because I was wondering the same thing. I originally thought they would issue some sort of referendum if the cap went down, like they did when the cap was first implemented. Maybe not reduce every players salary by 24% but maybe by allowing teams to buy out players without penalty against the cap.

But nope. Can't do that. You basically have to figure out a way to make it work on your own - buy-outs that count against the cap, waiver wire, or trades. I'm guessing its supposed to act as a deterrent from teams spending up to the absolute cap limit, which obviously hasn't worked.

Thanks, that's what I was afraid of but I appreciate the clarification.