Latest on Zetterberg talks

[Jedi 1,865]

Yes, While Z is an all-world talent, his injury problems are a concern for me. I hope his contract is incentive laden, like a million for every 12 games he plays or such, cause well ask anyone who has had back problems, they dont go away over night. Its really begning to seem like a chronic problem...

At this stage of his career, Z is ineligible to sign an incentive based contract.

The CBA allows only 3 types of players to sign a contract with performance based bonuses.

1 - Players on entry level contracts.

2 - Players signing one year contracts who are returning from a long-term injury. This is specified as a player who has played 400 or more career games, and spent 100 or more days on IR in the last year of their most recent contract.

3 - Players over the age of 35 who sign a one year deal.

Since Z doesn't fall into any of those categories, we can't sign him to an incentive based contract.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I wouldn't think twice about allowing Huds and Sammy to walk in order to keep Hossa around

[Konnan511 1,736]

I wouldn't think twice about allowing Huds and Sammy to walk in order to keep Hossa around

With Sammy and Huds gone, that doesn't make up enough money for a pay increase to Zata and Franzen. We'd also need Lebs and Chelios off the book along with D-Mac. Plus a couple more players. If we had to do away with Huds, Sammy, lebs, Cheli plus either waive Cleary or trade Lilja, I would be in favor of it.

[Doggy 130]

Actually, that contract would be rejected by the NHL, as per the CBA.

While the CBA does allow for variations from year to year on the contract, such a drastic change over the course of the deal is not allowed. The higher end years (salary wise) can't be more than double the lower end years. So if you were only going to pay Z 3 million on the lowest-paid year of the deal, his highest-paid year could not be any more than 6 million.

There are also clauses in there that would prevent a player's salary from rising/dropping too much from year to year, but your example is actually in line with that.

If a contract has a player raising in salary from one year to the next, it cannot raise more than 100% of the value of the lowest salary given in the first 2 years. So if a player has a 3 year contract making 3 million the first year, 4 million the 2nd, and 8 million the 3rd, it would be rejected, since his salary cannot rise more than 3 million from year to year. Spreading it to 4mil, 4mil, 7mil would be accepted, and the player would still make the same amount of money over the course of the contract.

If a contract has a player dropping in salary from one year to the next, it cannot drop more than 50% of the value of the lowest salary given in the first 2 years. In your proposed contract example, the minimum salary from the first 2 years of the contract is 10 million, half of that is 5 million. So from year to year, Z's contract cannot drop by more than 5 million per year, which your proposal falls in line with. It was that kind of fluctuation from year to year that caused the NHL to reject Martin Erat's deal with the Preds over the summer. When they tweaked the salary given from year to year, the NHL accepted it, even though it was still the same length and same overall salary.

So to conform to all the aspects of the CBA, if you're wanting to sign Z to a front-loaded 7 year, $45 million contract, you would need to spread it out a bit more. For example...

Year #1 = 9mil. #2 = 9mil. #3 = 7mil. #4 = 6mil. #5 = 5mil. #6 = 4.5mil. #7 = 4.5mil.

That still lets you front-load the crap out of the deal, but it doesn't fluctuate too much over the course of the contract, nor fluctuate too much from year to year.

Jedi, your understanding of that rule is incorrect. The suggested contract would be valid. The contract can't drop by more than $5m per year. It hasn't, therefore it's valid.

See Lecavalier's contract. $10m for seven years, $8.5m, $4m, $1.5m and $1m. It should have been rejected according to your definition but was not.

[FunkedUp 29]

Just look at Vinny's deal.

16 Lecavalier, Vincent TBL C 28

Cap # 09/10 - 6.875

Cap # 08/09 - 7.727

Salary 09/10 - 7.167

Salary 10/11 - 10.00

Salary 11/12 - 10.00

Salary 12/13 - 10.00

Salary 13/14 - 10.00

Salary 14/15 - 10.00

Salary 15/16 - 10.00

Salary 16/17 - 8.500

Salary 17/18 - 4.000

Salary 18/19 - 1.500

Salary 19/20 - 1.000

[Doggy 130]

His salary for 08/09 is $7.167m. For 09/10 it's $10m.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

No, but I can see Kenny letting Franzen, Hudler and Sammy walk in order to keep Hossa

Franzen would be the one missed, the rest can go now...

[chrisdetroit 189]

Franzen would be the one missed, the rest can go now...

Ideally, we re-sign Z, Hossa and Mule. That would be something like 8mil, 8mil and 5 mil. 21mil.

or in terms of this years numbers; +5.1, +0.55mil, +3.85 which is +9.5. This means that there has to be a combination of the cap going up and us shedding salaries of 9.5mil. It's unlikely the cap is going to go up more than 6 mil best case so we need to drop 3.5 mil in salaries.

Lilja 1.125

Rex 1.15

Sammy 1.2

Cheli 0.75

Lebda 0.65

And you have to replace these guys with guys making around 0.5 each.

I think that it's just not going to be possible unless there is a monster cap increase. Or all 3 agree to take less money.

[StephenGregoryYzerman 0]

I think we may be disappointed next summer. We were all ok with Hossa signing a 1 year contract and (hopefully) getting his ring with us, but after just 13 games I've grown very very fond of him. He's been great so far with this team and I hope Kenny can find a way to retain him. Hell maybe he falls in love with mantra of our organization and takes another pay cut. *crosses fingers*

[Z and D for the C 712]

Ideally, we re-sign Z, Hossa and Mule. That would be something like 8mil, 8mil and 5 mil. 21mil.

or in terms of this years numbers; +5.1, +0.55mil, +3.85 which is +9.5. This means that there has to be a combination of the cap going up and us shedding salaries of 9.5mil. It's unlikely the cap is going to go up more than 6 mil best case so we need to drop 3.5 mil in salaries.

Lilja 1.125

Rex 1.15

Sammy 1.2

Cheli 0.75

Lebda 0.65

And you have to replace these guys with guys making around 0.5 each.

I think that it's just not going to be possible unless there is a monster cap increase. Or all 3 agree to take less money.

I think you're over-doing it on the salaries for them. I think if it's for long term Z and Hossa would sign for around 7 million (won't be more than 7.45) and Franzen would get four. 2 mili not a huge difference, but it would very well be the difference (and it might give room for sammy, who I think is more valuable to our team/depth than people realize)

[South Dakota wings fan 7]

With Sammy and Huds gone, that doesn't make up enough money for a pay increase to Zata and Franzen. We'd also need Lebs and Chelios off the book along with D-Mac. Plus a couple more players. If we had to do away with Huds, Sammy, lebs, Cheli plus either waive Cleary or trade Lilja, I would be in favor of it.

While I think Huds is gone for sure next year, I highly doubt they will waive Cleary since they just signed him to a 5 year contract with a no-trade clause. Could they waive Lebs, yes. I see no way D-mac is back next year. Kopecky is a UFA next year as well.

I can see a deal with a long term for around 7.5 average cap hit. This will hopefully allow for long-term security as well as give Z the payday he deserves.

In a perfect world for management, Hossa could sign one more one year deal until Lids comes off the books. I don't see Lids playing past next season. I think he will play out the contract, play in the Olympics next year and then retire, which would free up a lot of cap space in the future.

[South Dakota wings fan 7]

Ideally, we re-sign Z, Hossa and Mule. That would be something like 8mil, 8mil and 5 mil. 21mil.

or in terms of this years numbers; +5.1, +0.55mil, +3.85 which is +9.5. This means that there has to be a combination of the cap going up and us shedding salaries of 9.5mil. It's unlikely the cap is going to go up more than 6 mil best case so we need to drop 3.5 mil in salaries.

Lilja 1.125

Rex 1.15

Sammy 1.2

Cheli 0.75

Lebda 0.65

And you have to replace these guys with guys making around 0.5 each.

I think that it's just not going to be possible unless there is a monster cap increase. Or all 3 agree to take less money.

Could the lineup look like this next year?

Homer-Dats- Hossa

Mule-Z-Leino

Cleary-Flip-Helm

Malts-Drapes-Abdelkader

Downey

Lids-Raffie

Kronner-Stewie

Lilja-Ericcson

Meech

Hell, I think I would take that right now!

Make it happen Kenny!

[Matt 1,049]

Considering some of the Wings' young talent ready to burst onto the NHL scene, I don't think that going next season without Hudler, Samuelsson, etc., would be a tough pill for Holland to swallow.

Hossa's been incredible so far this season and if keeping him meant losing Franzen I'm definitely comfortable with that.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

No worries, but what might happen that could lower his cap hit is give him something like 12 mil the first year, 10 mil the second, 7 mil the third, 5 mil for the 4th, 4 mil for the 5th, 4 mil for the 6th, 3 mil for the 7th.

Front load the crap out of it because who is going to turn down a contract that over the first 2 years gives you 22 mil. This would give a cap hit of 6.42 which would help for the future and it would also be money in the bank for Zata.

This is especially smart if they are smart enough to get an accountant to calculate the present value of both contracts at the end of the contract term (using a conservative estimate of the rate of return he'd get on investment).

[dicksmack 33]

i Wince because Z was underpaid for so long and now the bell tolls for he...

[Opie 308]

Considering some of the Wings' young talent ready to burst onto the NHL scene, I don't think that going next season without Hudler, Samuelsson, etc., would be a tough pill for Holland to swallow.

Hossa's been incredible so far this season and if keeping him meant losing Franzen I'm definitely comfortable with that.

Couldn't agree more, as much as I love the way Mule plays and he is a very good player, but not as good as Hossa!

[Dominator2005 558]

ESPN.COM: Pierre Lebrun reports contract talks between Henrik Zetterberg and the Detroit Red Wings are heating up. Zetterberg could command between $9 -$10 million per season but Lebrun believes he'll have to accept less to stay in Detroit, suggesting $7-$8 million per is the sweet spot.

SPECTOR'S NOTE: I agree with Lebrun, who also suggests Zetterberg will have to decide if he's willing to accept less than market value to stay with the Wings. I believe he will but it'll likely cost the Wings upwards of $8 million per to do it.

http://spectorshockey.net/index.php?option...8&Itemid=55

[Matt 1,049]

SPECTOR'S NOTE: I agree with Lebrun, who also suggests Zetterberg will have to decide if he's willing to accept less than market value to stay with the Wings. I believe he will but it'll likely cost the Wings upwards of $8 million per to do it.

http://spectorshockey.net/index.php?option...8&Itemid=55

I'm still calling $7.3M for Hank.

[Jedi 1,865]

Is it just me, or does it seem like a vast majority of the non-Detroit media is playing the whole "Z must decide on to accept less money to stay, or test the market" card alot more than is probably true?

So many of the Detroit media outlets are pointing to the fact that it's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN, and that Z has stated publicly he wants to stay with Detroit for his whole career.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Is it just me, or does it seem like a vast majority of the non-Detroit media is playing the whole "Z must decide on to accept less money to stay, or test the market" card alot more than is probably true?

So many of the Detroit media outlets are pointing to the fact that it's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN, and that Z has stated publicly he wants to stay with Detroit for his whole career.

I agree, but are you suprised? Its boring when a high profile player re-signs with his current team for a reasonable contract. People either want to see 1) the team get screwed into paying a boatload of money for said player 2) the high profile player walking for nothing at the deadline or 3) The media favorite - Zetterberg traded at the deadline to the Toronto Canadien Shark-Preying Penguins for anything ranging from a 2nd round pick and Mike Sillinger to an impossible package of Syndey Crosby, Joe Thornton, Roberto Luongo and the coveted 2nd rounder in an 8-way deal.

[diehardredwing19 11]

all i want for christmas is ZETTERBERG re-signed....dead serious

[Bannedforlife 403]

all i want for christmas is ZETTERBERG re-signed....dead serious

Same here. Except its Hossa for me. And a jersey...

[Earthhuman 8]

I'm thinking Zetterberg will be signing between $7-8m, which just makes that Datsyuk deal look even better. I can't believe anyone (myself included) was ever skeptical about that deal. Of course, it was before his two best playoff years.

Strange that so many were content to enjoy Hossa for one season, and thank the Wings' lucky stars, but now want more, more, more! How awkwardly optimistic. I myself would always prefer Franzen in the lineup if it comes down to one or another, because there are some things more important than top offense in the league or whatever. He's a guy that was drafted and made it to the NHL late, after working in a glass factory... he hated it, all he wants now is the privilege to play in the NHL. He has always seemed 3rd linish, until the preseason last year, the last 16 games and beyond. That's worth more to me than 10 more goals.

[finalfilppula 2]

I'm thinking Zetterberg will be signing between $7-8m, which just makes that Datsyuk deal look even better. I can't believe anyone (myself included) was ever skeptical about that deal. Of course, it was before his two best playoff years.

Strange that so many were content to enjoy Hossa for one season, and thank the Wings' lucky stars, but now want more, more, more! How awkwardly optimistic. I myself would always prefer Franzen in the lineup if it comes down to one or another, because there are some things more important than top offense in the league or whatever. He's a guy that was drafted and made it to the NHL late, after working in a glass factory... he hated it, all he wants now is the privilege to play in the NHL. He has always seemed 3rd linish, until the preseason last year, the last 16 games and beyond. That's worth more to me than 10 more goals.

+1

[YoungGuns1340 1]

If the difference between Franzen and Hossa is 4M on average vs 8M on average, you have to consider what you could do with that 4M extra in terms of depth.

Its not simply Franzen vs Hossa, its Franzen + extra money (cap space), flexibility, depth vs Hossa.

Honestly, if I'm Holland, and I'm trying to re-sign Hossa, the first corner I'm looking to cut besides letting the obvious dead weight go via their contracts ending (Sammy, Mac, Downey, Cheli, etc.) is Valterri Filppula. Say what you want about Filppula, but if we re-sign Hossa long-term, then you can be sure that Datsyuk is your 1st center, and Zetterberg is your 2nd. A $3M third-line center at that point is unnecessary with Darren Helm available. Besides Helm being some 2.5M cheaper, hes also just as fast, just as good defensively, and has enough offensive talent to produce a little secondary offense in a third line role.

The only other spot for Filppula on this team is in a 2nd line winger role, and the difference between a would-be long-term contract for Franzen as our 2nd line scorer and a 3M Filppula as our 2nd line scorer is not enough difference IMO to justify keeping Filppula over Franzen. You could feasibly re-sign Franzen for what Filppula (3M) and Samuelsson (1.2) collectively make on the long-term. Say, 4.2M over 6 years for Franzen. Not to mention, you could gain something of value in trading Filppula - a pick/prospect package. Theres also the option of trading Hudler and replacing him with Leino, keeping Hudler and re-signing him low-cost via arbitration or otherwise, or trading Hudler AND Filppula - either separately or together - to add a low-cost forward like Jiri Hudler ca. '08-09 and a pick or prospect or other package.

Edited November 10, 2008 by YoungGuns1340