Avery comments & suspension

[OsGOD 3]

no different than calling people douchebags on here...

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Yeah, Avery was probably talking about food. It's just sloppy seconds.

Why would the NHL care? It's not like sloppy seconds is obscene or anything.

you talk like you have been called sloppy seconds before...what is the big deal about it..yes it is bad for him to say that in an interview..but its not THAT bad...this is making my head hurt..all this bobbing and weaving..im dizzy.

[Guest Shoreline]

you talk like you have been called sloppy seconds before...what is the big deal about it..yes it is bad for him to say that in an interview..but its not THAT bad...this is making my head hurt..all this bobbing and weaving..im dizzy.

Yeah, it wasn't that bad. It's not like now Phaneuf and Cuthbert get unnecessary attention for things unrelated to hockey, right? All one big uproar over nothing. Hell, why aren't I offended by it? This is some major flip flopping here.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Show me what worse things Hull has done than this.

Didn't Chelios say something to the effect of Bettman should be concerned for his family?

Personally, what Avery said left alot to the imagination. He was insinuating that he had sex with those women.

Chelios, IMO was insinuating that something violent could happen to Bettman or his family. Which seems more egregious?

I dunno, the whole thing is way overblown in my opinion.

There's some simple truths (at least in my mind) at play here.

1. There are not many Avery's in the league and allowing him to say what he said wasn't likely to start a rash of off ice trash talking. Especially considering this is the last sport played by honorable men, right?

2. Hockey fans and other sports fans/writers/etc...have stated, written about, whatever that they would've loved to tune in for that game. I have yet to meet or see 1 person who has said they would watch the game b/c the league did the "right thing" in suspending Avery. Leaving him in the game was going to generate viewership. Suspending him was not. That is a fact whether there's data or not. I call it common sense.

3. There's no denying that many sports fans love to hate something. Hating another team, hating a rival, hating a player, players hating other players, puts asses in the seats and gets people intrigued. The NHL has no great rivalry that any non-hockey fan would even know about. Conversely, we can bet our collective asses that the Aves/Wings rivalry brought some new fans into the game, even if just for a moment in time.

4. The NHL lacks personality. The players by and large act like automatons in front of the microphone. You get the same answers from just about any player you talk to. Everybody says how hard they have to work, how much respect they have for the other team and blah, blah, blah.... Non hockey sports fans don't give 2 flying fecks about that s***. They don't know that Crosby or AO or Datsyuk is fun to watch. They don't know that the game is graceful and brutal and exciting to watch. And bottom line you aren't going to get them to check it out by having canned responses given to reporters from all the "good guys" around the league.

IMO, there's a misconception by some here that allowing Avery to say what he did is going to turn the league into the WWF or whatever. Why is that? This is the league of gentlemen is it not? So why the worry about what a couple of asses like Avery have to say? At the most, Avery-type players might draw in some new fans. I don't care if those fans are Nascar or WWE fans or whatever. If they decide that the intensity, the hate, the drama or what Avery has to say makes them want to check out a game...then I say "AWESOME!" to that.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Firstly, I'm not offended by it. I say some of the most vulgar s*** here, albeit rarely to the extent of what my humor extends to as I bet even the moderators will easily have enough of that if I did. Secondly, "sloppy seconds" does not mean having Sloppy Joe's for seconds. I don't care for looking at two words individually (like he has to say f*** and s*** for it to mean anything.. does he actually have to describe blowing a load in Cuthbert for you to get that's what he means?), but what the words mean, and what the intent was behind saying them. He was trying to embarrass both Phaneuf and Cuthbert and using the hockey media as an outlet for it, for something unrelated to hockey at all.

Not quite sure what you're complaining about though. Just because you think trashing an NHL room (again, maybe the U.S. guys should apologize to the room and be suspended if it's feelings were hurt) is worse than basically Avery's embarrassing his teammates and the league, doesn't mean others don't find it differently.

Beyond that, you have to admit it's kinda fun watching some posters look absolutely silly with their arguments.

I'd disagree with that. It 100% has everything to do with hockey. Look at the timing and the other jabs he took at Iginla. He said what he said b/c he's an *******. But he also said it b/c of what you say, he intended to embarrass an opponent. One he was going to face very soon. This had everything to do with Avery being a dick as well as everything to do with him trying to get the other team focused on him and off of their game.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Didn't Chelios say something to the effect of Bettman should be concerned for his family?

Personally, what Avery said left alot to the imagination. He was insinuating that he had sex with those women.

Chelios, IMO was insinuating that something violent could happen to Bettman or his family. Which seems more egregious?

I dunno, the whole thing is way overblown in my opinion.

There's some simple truths (at least in my mind) at play here.

1. There are not many Avery's in the league and allowing him to say what he said wasn't likely to start a rash of off ice trash talking. Especially considering this is the last sport played by honorable men, right?

2. Hockey fans and other sports fans/writers/etc...have stated, written about, whatever that they would've loved to tune in for that game. I have yet to meet or see 1 person who has said they would watch the game b/c the league did the "right thing" in suspending Avery. Leaving him in the game was going to generate viewership. Suspending him was not. That is a fact whether there's data or not. I call it common sense.

3. There's no denying that many sports fans love to hate something. Hating another team, hating a rival, hating a player, players hating other players, puts asses in the seats and gets people intrigued. The NHL has no great rivalry that any non-hockey fan would even know about. Conversely, we can bet our collective asses that the Aves/Wings rivalry brought some new fans into the game, even if just for a moment in time.

4. The NHL lacks personality. The players by and large act like automatons in front of the microphone. You get the same answers from just about any player you talk to. Everybody says how hard they have to work, how much respect they have for the other team and blah, blah, blah.... Non hockey sports fans don't give 2 flying fecks about that s***. They don't know that Crosby or AO or Datsyuk is fun to watch. They don't know that the game is graceful and brutal and exciting to watch. And bottom line you aren't going to get them to check it out by having canned responses given to reporters from all the "good guys" around the league.

IMO, there's a misconception by some here that allowing Avery to say what he did is going to turn the league into the WWF or whatever. Why is that? This is the league of gentlemen is it not? So why the worry about what a couple of asses like Avery have to say? At the most, Avery-type players might draw in some new fans. I don't care if those fans are Nascar or WWE fans or whatever. If they decide that the intensity, the hate, the drama or what Avery has to say makes them want to check out a game...then I say "AWESOME!" to that.

I'd disagree with that. It 100% has everything to do with hockey. Look at the timing and the other jabs he took at Iginla. He said what he said b/c he's an *******. But he also said it b/c of what you say, he intended to embarrass an opponent. One he was going to face very soon. This had everything to do with Avery being a dick as well as everything to do with him trying to get the other team focused on him and off of their game.

great posts gs&t but they mean nothing to some. there is a scare for some in the form of sloppy seconds that they cant get over.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Yeah, Avery was probably talking about food. It's just sloppy seconds.

Why would the NHL care? It's not like sloppy seconds is obscene or anything.

Who exactly is so terribly offended by this that we care? Are hockey moms not taking their kids to practice anymore? Are hockey fans turning away from the game? Are sports writers by and large touting this as the greatest, most worthy suspension in history?

You talk about this being offensive like the people who heard it, the people most likely to tune into the game would be offended.

We're fecking hockey fans. And many of us want to see some ass kicking go down. Many of us want to see what the Flames would've done to Avery. Offended? My ass offended. We're chomping at the bit for them to drop the friggin' puck and "GET IT ON!"

[Guest Shoreline]

Who exactly is so terribly offended by this that we care? Are hockey moms not taking their kids to practice anymore? Are hockey fans turning away from the game? Are sports writers by and large touting this as the greatest, most worthy suspension in history?

You talk about this being offensive like the people who heard it, the people most likely to tune into the game would be offended.

I don't recall saying someone taking offense was a requisite here in terms of the suspension, nor did I ever say I was offended by it. In fact, I've said the opposite.

However, allowing this sort of thing to happen sets a precedent one way or another. Either let it happen or don't Very simple. The NHL chose the right way.

So no, I don't talk about anything being offensive. I talk about what a professional league does or doesn't want in it.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Shoreline

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

For what it's worth, Buccigross's take on Avery. At the end, I think he sums up Avery pretty well.

Hello John,

Not that I am defending Sean Avery because I think he is an egomaniac and a jackass, but how is it possible that Avery gets six games for conduct detrimental to the league for words, yet Mattias Ohlund gets four games for a two-handed slash that breaks a leg? Is Bettman saying that a vicious slash is less detrimental to the league than words? Especially considering his mission to make hockey a family-friendly sport. I know that Avery is "repeat offender" in the league's eyes, but nothing he's done has been so bad as to warrant a suspension before this latest incident, so I really don't see it that way. Your thoughts?

Chris

Atlanta

According to the Emotional Intelligence theory called "Emotional Hijacking," anger is explained by the fact that the emotional part of our brain and the logical part act quite independently of each other, and at different speeds. What was troubling for the league, despite Avery's past, is that he thought about his words. They were logical to him.

Anyone who plays hockey knows there are moments of temporary insanity. I'm not excusing any behavior, but I understand on-ice passion. Hockey, at its best, is not a "fan-friendly" sport. Hockey, at its best, is a physical game filled with a young-people-in-the-crowd tempest of passion, emotion and, yes, fighting. Avery's comment actually plays right into that crowd's hands. I think he understands that, but misses the other points. His comment was disrespectful to some women, perhaps many who follow hockey.

This is a business. Break an ankle, but don't turn away possible customers. I would have suspended him for trying to be funny and not being funny. Since he is not very interesting or funny, he tries too hard. Those are the people who say and do some things because they can't get attention with their deeds, words or intellect.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/stor...&id=3758465

[Guest Shoreline]

What's very clear about slashing plays like Ohlund's is, if his action directly caused the injury, his suspension time should be more relative to the time the player is out. In Bertuzzi's case, he's f***ed.

[drwscc 212]

Didn't Chelios say something to the effect of Bettman should be concerned for his family?

Personally, what Avery said left alot to the imagination. He was insinuating that he had sex with those women.

Chelios, IMO was insinuating that something violent could happen to Bettman or his family. Which seems more egregious?

I dunno, the whole thing is way overblown in my opinion.

There's some simple truths (at least in my mind) at play here.

1. There are not many Avery's in the league and allowing him to say what he said wasn't likely to start a rash of off ice trash talking. Especially considering this is the last sport played by honorable men, right?

2. Hockey fans and other sports fans/writers/etc...have stated, written about, whatever that they would've loved to tune in for that game. I have yet to meet or see 1 person who has said they would watch the game b/c the league did the "right thing" in suspending Avery. Leaving him in the game was going to generate viewership. Suspending him was not. That is a fact whether there's data or not. I call it common sense.

3. There's no denying that many sports fans love to hate something. Hating another team, hating a rival, hating a player, players hating other players, puts asses in the seats and gets people intrigued. The NHL has no great rivalry that any non-hockey fan would even know about. Conversely, we can bet our collective asses that the Aves/Wings rivalry brought some new fans into the game, even if just for a moment in time.

4. The NHL lacks personality. The players by and large act like automatons in front of the microphone. You get the same answers from just about any player you talk to. Everybody says how hard they have to work, how much respect they have for the other team and blah, blah, blah.... Non hockey sports fans don't give 2 flying fecks about that s***. They don't know that Crosby or AO or Datsyuk is fun to watch. They don't know that the game is graceful and brutal and exciting to watch. And bottom line you aren't going to get them to check it out by having canned responses given to reporters from all the "good guys" around the league.

IMO, there's a misconception by some here that allowing Avery to say what he did is going to turn the league into the WWF or whatever. Why is that? This is the league of gentlemen is it not? So why the worry about what a couple of asses like Avery have to say? At the most, Avery-type players might draw in some new fans. I don't care if those fans are Nascar or WWE fans or whatever. If they decide that the intensity, the hate, the drama or what Avery has to say makes them want to check out a game...then I say "AWESOME!" to that.

THIS sums up perfectly how I feel about the whole situation.

[Dabura 12,232]

I haven't seen any coach or player actually employed by the NHL speak out against Avery's suspension. I wonder why? All the coaches and players are in 100% agreement with it? Hard to believe

Oh for crying out loud. This is not V for Vendetta; the league is not a fascist dictatorship, and no one is being or will be black-bagged. I'm sure Bettman understands Avery's value to the league. But the fact is, Avery's been pushing buttons for awhile now and he was really asking for it this time. From a business perspective (since we're all so hung up on the league's viability, or perceived lack thereof), a loose cannon like him is an asset, yes, but also a risk. That's because he gets a lot of press for himself and, vicariously, for the league. If he has trouble keeping himself in line, he's basically a big-ass blowup waiting to happen. But, as I've said before, Bettman does not want to burn Avery at the stake. Rather, he wants Avery to learn how to do what he does without crossing that fine line. If he can reign himself in a little, the league will benefit, and hockey will benefit. But to get him to reign himself in, a strong message needed to be sent. And it was.

I know, I know, there are two counterarguments against what I just said. First, there is the argument that Avery can't do what he does without crossing the line, as what he does is inherently a matter of crossing the line. But I don't think that's true. No one's saying he needs to behave like an angel and say please and thank you every time he talks to the media. No one is saying that. Avery just needs to understand -- like a number of people here do -- that 1) the NHL is and will always be a corporate business with corporate considerations and corporate clients; 2) the NHL prides itself on relatively classy, gentlemanly conduct; and 3) we're living in a disgustingly PC era, and a big chunk of the people the NHL is targeting as potential new fans are therefore sure to be disgustingly PC people (not to mention some of those aforementioned corporate clients).

Now, the second counterargument -- that this incident has created some sort of Nazi Germany-esque culture of fear and intolerance. Um...gimme a break. Yeah, I do think this suspension sends a message about biting your tongue. But at the same time, people know this is about Sean Avery. He's been looking for an ass-kicking, he's pissed off a lot of people in the process, and now it's all catching up to him. That's the bottom line.

But he'll be back, he'll continue to push buttons (within reason), and everyone will forget about this.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Dabura

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Avery isn't being banished from the league. There's just the chance that teams across the league may feel that the good qualities he does have as a hockey player are still not worth risking such a jackass.

Who knows though. I can't see the Kings or Wings taking him back. Dallas is trying to get rid of him. And I don't think the Rangers want him back. There's still 26 teams that haven't had a firsthand experience of Sean Avery's antics? Maybe one will sign him and see if this time he'll really change.

Players in the past have had problems on and off the ice and were given second chances. In Avery's case, never has someone that's done so little within the game been talked about so damn much outside of it.

[Guest Shoreline]

Avery isn't being banished from the league. There's just the chance that teams across the league may feel that the good qualities he does have as a hockey player are still not worth risking such a jackass.

No idea how many times this point has been raised in this topic alone (several by me), but yet again it always comes back to the Evil Bettman banishing the saintly Avery from the NHL for life for his kind and warm-spirited compliment of Phaneuf's lovely girlfriend.

(I'm sure esteef will certainly agree with the latter part here)

Edited December 10, 2008 by Shoreline

[RedArmy 4]

this suspension is getting way too much attention. Stars over reacting, NHL is over reacting. Sooo stupid... for one dumb comment they want anger management lol Pronger should be in jail then for all his boarding and chross checking... this is beyong retarded... On tsn they were saying before tonight's game that dallas will either suspend him, suspend him to make him get help, put him on waivers and send him to minors and then buy out of his contract... How idiotic is that over a stupid comment. This comment was stupid that is all it was, it wasn't horrible.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Bettman is a bumbling idiot. As I've already stated, he's the Jacques Clousseau of the NHL.

How can anyone defend his paranoid actions in this situation? If he does think that Avery is bad press for the NHL, then this suspension only made things worse, because it drew more so-called negative attention to the league. Either way you look at it, Bettman failed.

[Guest Shoreline]

6 game suspension by the league is a little steep - is it not?

I get the impression that Bettman, & his "little Napoleon" like insecurity wants to see trouble makers like Avery outta the league.

This ain't school. The league shouldn't have to babysit a player who can't figure out what professionalism in a professional league is. Of course, the Bettman fanboys overlooked that Dallas is eying a far steeper punishment of Avery than "Bettman" just handed down.

this suspension is getting way too much attention. Stars over reacting, NHL is over reacting. Sooo stupid... for one dumb comment they want anger management lol Pronger should be in jail then for all his boarding and chross checking... this is beyong retarded... On tsn they were saying before tonight's game that dallas will either suspend him, suspend him to make him get help, put him on waivers and send him to minors and then buy out of his contract... How idiotic is that over a stupid comment. This comment was stupid that is all it was, it wasn't horrible.

In this case, you're only limited by your own perspective, not to those who actually had to deal with him.

[RedArmy 4]

This ain't school. The league shouldn't have to babysit a player who can't figure out what professionalism in a professional league is. Of course, the Bettman fanboys overlooked that Dallas is eying a far steeper punishment of Avery than "Bettman" just handed down.

In this case, you're only limited by your own perspective, not to those who actually had to deal with him.

what you mean in a sense that he is a pain in the ass in the locker room and is a distraction?

[Guest Shoreline]

what you mean in a sense that he is a pain in the ass in the locker room and is a distraction?

In the sense that he causes teammates unnecessary concern on things they shouldn't be concerned about. Someone who's a distraction to his team is going to find himself not getting any sympathy when things like this occur.

[RedArmy 4]

In the sense that he causes teammates unnecessary concern on things they shouldn't be concerned about. Someone who's a distraction to his team is going to find himself not getting any sympathy when things like this occur.

yea I guess. I am sure hull wasn't thrilled to fly to NY to sit with bettman and have a hearing on this crap...

[Guest Shoreline]

yea I guess. I am sure hull wasn't thrilled to fly to NY to sit with bettman and have a hearing on this crap...

Should have said he's allergic to assholes.

[theman19 47]

Should have said he's allergic to assholes.

I love hully, but that'd mean he's allergic to himself.

[Guest Shoreline]

I love hully, but that'd mean he's allergic to himself.

Hah, ouch.. and touche.

[Dabura 12,232]

for one dumb comment they want anger management

As I've explained, this is not just about one isolated incident. Avery is a special case; he has a history of pushing buttons, and he's in a high-risk position, what with all the exposure he gets for himself and for the league. Pronger does not get that kind of exposure; no non-NHL fans know or care when Pronger elbows somebody in the face.

he does think that Avery is bad press for the NHL

As I've explained, Bettman wants Avery to do what he does -- as long as he does it without going overboard. Unfortunately, it seems like the only way to get through to Avery is to really shake him up. The hope, I'm sure, is that this will do just that. Moreover, Bettman has to protect and project at least some semblance of class for the league, as that has, I think, always been one of its finer selling points. Slamming Avery with this suspension sends a message not only to Avery, not only to people within the league, but also to "outsiders" looking in. The message is that there's no place for this kind of garbage (and it is garbage) in the NHL, unless it's said on the ice. You see that as bumbling idiocy and borderline paranoia, but it's not, and if we're talking about non-NHL fans who are hearing about this, they are probably generally in agreement with this idea. Overall, the only people who are going to see this suspension as horribly misguided and wrong are those who have a bone to pick with Bettman in the first place. I hate the guy and I'd love to see him him resign, but I'm not going to let that cloud my judgment in this case -- and neither should you.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Dabura

[Dabura 12,232]

To add to the first part: Avery might, in fact, have some sort of anger management problem. If he does seek help there, and if it does make a difference, then great. It's not like it'll turn him into a puppy; it doesn't work that way.