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Wings got the talent, but what about the coaching?


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#21 GoWings1905

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:27 PM

QUOTE (Detroit # 1 Fan @ December 13, 2008 - 01:20PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was with you until you took a shot at Cleary, again with this. 2 goals and 8 points in 5 games, and consistently the hardest working player on the ice, WITH the big guns also on the ice. What more does he need to do? Start playing like Ovechkin night in and night out for people to give him respect? He's versatile. He can kill penalties, and he does it well, he can score goals, 20 in back to back years, he can set up plays, maybe his 14 assists this season arent that good afterall right?

As for Babcock, yeah, I mean three straight 50 win seasons is nothing. And a Stanley Cup and a trip to the WCF, man anyone could do that.


clap.gif Great post. I couldn't agree more.


 
 
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#22 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE (wingslionstigers @ December 13, 2008 - 11:44AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Um im gonna stop reading because you already proved you dont know much about nothing. Why do you think they brought Drake to the Red Wings? To score points?? LOL He was brought here for grit and leadership something were missing and need badly this year. Drake would be about the best thing that could happen to our team right now. Do you know nothing besides what shows up on the stat sheet?



Cleary has played like s*** on the top lines. Are we watching the same guys? He looks like he has no idea how to flow with them players. He doesnt even play his game when hes on those lines. He plays much better when he is on the 3rd line and sticks to his game. You said he has like 5 assists, how couldnt you get points all you have to do is touch the puck here and there and you have a good chance of getting a few helpers when your on a line with Hossa and Dats. I haven't seen Cleary make any good passes that created goals all i have seen is him hand the puck off to his line mates.

Easy sparky with the personal attack there. We're allowed to make mistakes.

And a point is a point is a point, shouldn't and it doesn't matter how you get them. Points help with confidence and contribution.

What do you expect Cleary to do, just pick his nose or crouch down in a fetal position in the other goal and say, "Hey guys, I don't feel like playing anymore, the heck with me even attempting to get points, I just want to hang out inside the net, why don't you guys take the puck and pass it to the other guy to score. That sounds jolly good!" You know how ridiculous that sounds, and how silly you sound by knocking him for not getting points with style or properly?

#23 chrisdetroit

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE (FourtyThirteen @ December 13, 2008 - 02:52AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We've all seen the Wings this year and how they've still got great depth and a roster that is by far one of the best in the league. The one thing that's bothering me is the coaching. It seems every game we're just holding on by a one goal lead and when ever we lose it's by two or three goals. I'm really starting to think that Todd McLellan was a huge part of making the 2007-2008 Stanley Cup Champions, Detroit's defense last year was unbelievable. But that's the past...

Lately Mike Babcock has been changing up the lines quite a bit this season. All the lines are mix-matched and there's no consistency through out the game (the Dallas Stars game is one example that was embarrassing). Mike Babcock thinks he has to swap the lines up because Marian Hossa is here, that's not the case. Zetterberg and Datsyuk were incredible last year due to their playing experience together and chemistry they had. Sure, new lines mates can build new chemistry, but that's going to take a while. I think the lines should have stayed the same and add Hossa with Franzen and Flippula. You saw how Flippula was setting up Franzen last year with his straight on passes, so why not add Hossa into the bunch? Not Zetterberg, Franzen, and Holmstrom. Why have two big guys? Hossa's big but he's not the type who stands in front of the net.

Sorry about the ranting, but I think a few things need to be cleaned up to give the Wings a kick start.

What's Daniel Cleary doing up with Hank and Pav? Even Hossa? I'd throw him with Hudler and Samuelsson. Cleary's not the type of player that can keep with the pace or even playing style with Z, Pav, or Hossa. He does decent when he's playing with teammates that play his style.

Lines that I want- (forwards wise)

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Hossa-Flippula-Franzen
Cleary-Hudler-Samuelsson
Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

Defensive paring

Kronwall-Rafalski
Lidstrom-Staurt
Lelja-Lebda
Chelios-Meech

What do you think? Seriously though something needs to be done about their defense...BRAD MCCRIMMION YOU SUCK! rolleyes.gif


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#24 chrisdetroit

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:41 PM

You're kidding right?
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#25 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:44 PM

QUOTE (FourtyThirteen @ December 13, 2008 - 02:52AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We've all seen the Wings this year and how they've still got great depth and a roster that is by far one of the best in the league. The one thing that's bothering me is the coaching. It seems every game we're just holding on by a one goal lead and when ever we lose it's by two or three goals. I'm really starting to think that Todd McLellan was a huge part of making the 2007-2008 Stanley Cup Champions, Detroit's defense last year was unbelievable. But that's the past...

Lately Mike Babcock has been changing up the lines quite a bit this season. All the lines are mix-matched and there's no consistency through out the game (the Dallas Stars game is one example that was embarrassing). Mike Babcock thinks he has to swap the lines up because Marian Hossa is here, that's not the case. Zetterberg and Datsyuk were incredible last year due to their playing experience together and chemistry they had. Sure, new lines mates can build new chemistry, but that's going to take a while. I think the lines should have stayed the same and add Hossa with Franzen and Flippula. You saw how Flippula was setting up Franzen last year with his straight on passes, so why not add Hossa into the bunch? Not Zetterberg, Franzen, and Holmstrom. Why have two big guys? Hossa's big but he's not the type who stands in front of the net.

Sorry about the ranting, but I think a few things need to be cleaned up to give the Wings a kick start.

What's Daniel Cleary doing up with Hank and Pav? Even Hossa? I'd throw him with Hudler and Samuelsson. Cleary's not the type of player that can keep with the pace or even playing style with Z, Pav, or Hossa. He does decent when he's playing with teammates that play his style.

Lines that I want- (forwards wise)

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Hossa-Flippula-Franzen
Cleary-Hudler-Samuelsson
Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

Defensive paring

Kronwall-Rafalski
Lidstrom-Staurt
Lelja-Lebda
Chelios-Meech

What do you think? Seriously though something needs to be done about their defense...BRAD MCCRIMMION YOU SUCK! rolleyes.gif


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#26 Earthhuman

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:45 PM

Clearly is having a great run for sure, but Hudler has 25 points in 28 games. I don't know what line he's been playing on lately, but it's not a good idea to let him languish on the lower lines. He needs to be up with the scorers, he's on pace for 73 points and that projection is only getting better. This, after being one of the top producers in the playoffs.

Edited by Earthhuman, 13 December 2008 - 01:46 PM.


#27 lets go pavel

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:50 PM

Over the past 5 games, Cleary has 8 pts (2G, 6A). In those same 5 games, Datsyuk has 2 pts (2A) and Hossa has 3 pts (2G, 1A). He's not getting garbage points from them. And the rest of the roster over the last 5? Z has 3 pts, Franzen 4 pts, Homer 3 pts, Huddles 5 pts, Flip 5 pts, Sammy 0, Maltby 1, Draper 1, Kopecky 1. Looks to me like Cleary's more than holding his own, regardless of who he's playing with.
"The one thing I love about Datsyuk, and there is much to love, is that no other player is like him. And, at least in recent history, it's hard to think of any player who has really been like him. He is a unique freak of nature in how he stick checks and operates in tight quarters. It's amazing how he deceives people from a stand-still position or when he isn't moving very fast. He is hockey's David Blaine." -- John Buccigross

#28 chrisdetroit

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:52 PM

QUOTE (IceMunkee @ December 13, 2008 - 04:05AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand your frustration, I do. The wings have been slightly frustrating. Here is my complaint with your post. You propose Babs is the issue. You propose he swapping lines to much. He did not start doing that until two games ago. When things get stale it is pretty common to swap lines up. As far as ZDH versus Dats and Hossa, have you seen the numbers? Our top two lines are rolling.... HARD. I think your grasping at straws with this. The reason the sharks are doing so well is Todd has taken everything he learned from Babs and applying it to the Sharks. Lets not think for 1 minute that Todd is the reason for our success. Our issues are on the defensive end. At this time we do not have a goalie that is coming up with the game winning saves/ Our defense is out of whack as well. We need to tighten up the net and the blueline. I believe the Wings are ranked pretty high in goals this year. I think right now we need 3 goals per game to win... Thats not Red Wings hockey. This is not a Coaching problem. Babs is one of the best in the league.


Ok but the Sharks thing... They are doing marginally better than they did last year when they missed the Presidents Trophy by about 3 points. You have to take into account that their division got a lot weaker since last year. The Stars have dropped down to being the worst team in the Western Conference and the Duckies are a mediocre 16-11-3 (16-14). They are currently 8-2 against their division.

Granted they are playing great the first 3rd of the season but until they get past the 2nd round of the playoffs, I'm not ready to annoint McClellan as the savior. Keep in mind that he is a rookie head coach and the Sharkies are perennial underachievers.

As far as our defense, we went from about 20th at the start of the year to 3rd in the league in shots against while our goals against has not changed. Our defense has pretty much been fixed. Goaltending is the issue now.

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#29 chrisdetroit

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:53 PM

QUOTE (EZBAKETHAGANGSTA @ December 13, 2008 - 01:44PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Words cannot describe how little I will value your opinion on anything hockey related because of this post


well said

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#30 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:42 PM

QUOTE (chrisdetroit @ December 13, 2008 - 11:52AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok but the Sharks thing... They are doing marginally better than they did last year when they missed the Presidents Trophy by about 3 points. You have to take into account that their division got a lot weaker since last year. The Stars have dropped down to being the worst team in the Western Conference and the Duckies are a mediocre 16-11-3 (16-14). They are currently 8-2 against their division.

Granted they are playing great the first 3rd of the season but until they get past the 2nd round of the playoffs, I'm not ready to annoint McClellan as the savior. Keep in mind that he is a rookie head coach and the Sharkies are perennial underachievers.

As far as our defense, we went from about 20th at the start of the year to 3rd in the league in shots against while our goals against has not changed. Our defense has pretty much been fixed. Goaltending is the issue now.

Just because we allow less shots doesnt mean we fixed anything. The defence is still playing bad, we give up lots of quality shots to the opponents. And when it comes to shots, it's quality not quantity. GA is much more important then shots against, I dont see how that could've changed our defence.. at all.

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#31 FourtyThirteen

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE (j.hoop @ December 13, 2008 - 12:07PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sorry man, after i saw that, this post loses all validity. you wanna see what happens with those two getting more ice time than lids?!?


You haven't seen how Lidstrom's been playing the last few games? Teams always tend to dump the puck into his side because he's older and can barely battle. I never said he was a bad player, but I think he's just getting old. Did you the the Stars vs Detroit Red Wings? Lidstrom moved out of the way and gave the Stars player the open slot. It was like a shootout!


#32 FourtyThirteen

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:50 PM

So basically everyone is going to disagree with me because I have some complaints about the Wings this season?

#33 lets go pavel

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:52 PM

QUOTE (FourtyThirteen @ December 13, 2008 - 03:50PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So basically everyone is going to disagree with me because I have some complaints about the Wings this season?


Uhh, nope, that's not it. I'm sure we all have our complaints. We just don't necessarily agree with yours.

Oh yeah, and welcome to LGW!

Edited by lets go pavel, 13 December 2008 - 02:53 PM.

"The one thing I love about Datsyuk, and there is much to love, is that no other player is like him. And, at least in recent history, it's hard to think of any player who has really been like him. He is a unique freak of nature in how he stick checks and operates in tight quarters. It's amazing how he deceives people from a stand-still position or when he isn't moving very fast. He is hockey's David Blaine." -- John Buccigross

#34 ComradeWasabi

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:53 PM

QUOTE (thedisappearer @ December 13, 2008 - 10:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, we're dogpiling on the goalie sammy Hudler the defense the refs league bias against us coaching now? Ok.

Babcock is lazy and he sucks!


Sigged. wink.gif
QUOTE (thedisappearer @ December 13, 2008 - 10:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, we're dogpiling on the goalie sammy Hudler the defense the refs league bias against us coaching now? Ok.

Babcock is lazy and he sucks!

#35 uk_redwing

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:54 PM

QUOTE (FourtyThirteen @ December 13, 2008 - 07:50PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So basically everyone is going to disagree with me because I have some complaints about the Wings this season?


I also find the blind faith everyone is showing in Babcock quite worrying, like hes some kind of God who cant make a single mistake.

Just to correct a few people in the thread, Mike Babcock DID NOT win the cup last season. The Detroit Red Wings did. And theres alot of that Detroit Red Wings that is missing/has changed this year. The biggest change being at coach level.

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#36 OsGOD

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:57 PM

why are we questioning coaching in December when we are still near the tops in the league?



Just one chance is all i ever wanted...just one time i'd like to win the game...from now on i'll take the chance if i can have it...just one just one

#37 wingslionstigers

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 03:00 PM

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I was with you until you took a shot at Cleary, again with this. 2 goals and 8 points in 5 games, and consistently the hardest working player on the ice, WITH the big guns also on the ice. What more does he need to do? Start playing like Ovechkin night in and night out for people to give him respect? He's versatile. He can kill penalties, and he does it well, he can score goals, 20 in back to back years, he can set up plays, maybe his 14 assists this season arent that good afterall right?

As for Babcock, yeah, I mean three straight 50 win seasons is nothing. And a Stanley Cup and a trip to the WCF, man anyone could do that.


Im not dogging Cleary by any means. I'm saying that i havent been impressed with how he mingled with Hossa and Dats. Theres no doubt hes a good solid player and a hard worker, no doubt in my mind. He just doesnt seem to look comfortable with them guys is what i was trying to get at. You guys can have your own opinions but when i watch the games i find myself noticing that almost every time Clearys out to shift with them. I guess i havent had a chance to watch as many games this year as i would like but thats the way lifes going for me this year. I have watched atleast half and i have seen Cleary do very little with those guys. You going to get points no matter who you are if your on the ice with Hossa and Dats and thats a fact that cant be denied. You say well Babs been choosing cleary to be on that line for a reason. Well Babs does do some odd things sometimes, like not keeping Huds on the 1st 2 lines and giving him ice time.

I know a couple other of you had opinions in reply to me but i just got in the door and i gotta run back out it right about now.

#38 Heaton

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 03:01 PM

QUOTE (OsGOD @ December 13, 2008 - 02:57PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
why are we questioning coaching in December when we are still near the tops in the league?


Because if the Wings aren't dominating all of the best teams in December it obviously spells a 1st round knockout. Just like last year when we didn't have the secondary scoring or "toughness" for a long playoff grind.
Moral victories are for losers.

#39 OsGOD

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 03:09 PM

QUOTE (Heaton @ December 13, 2008 - 03:01PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because if the Wings aren't dominating all of the best teams in December it obviously spells a 1st round knockout. Just like last year when we didn't have the secondary scoring or "toughness" for a long playoff grind.

dammit you know this is why i am finding it hard to be a fan of this team... we always suck all the time! *shakes fist* play like professionals you BUMS!



Just one chance is all i ever wanted...just one time i'd like to win the game...from now on i'll take the chance if i can have it...just one just one

#40 lets go pavel

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE (uk_redwing @ December 13, 2008 - 03:54PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also find the blind faith everyone is showing in Babcock quite worrying, like hes some kind of God who cant make a single mistake.


Not blind faith. But I think the majority of us feel he has earned the faith in him. Of course he makes mistakes, but what evidence do you have that the Wings current lack of consistent play is his responsibility? What are your complaints with Babcock? All the OP could provide was a disagreement over lines, which seems to be a rather silly thing to throw Babs under the bus.
"The one thing I love about Datsyuk, and there is much to love, is that no other player is like him. And, at least in recent history, it's hard to think of any player who has really been like him. He is a unique freak of nature in how he stick checks and operates in tight quarters. It's amazing how he deceives people from a stand-still position or when he isn't moving very fast. He is hockey's David Blaine." -- John Buccigross





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