What do you do with a struggling goaltender?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Tie him to the goalposts and shoot a thousand pucks at him like Goldberg in the Mighty Ducks movie.

On no I'm gonna die! I'm gonna die! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! This doesn't hurt!

[The Secret 304]

And as osgood's #1 fan has mentioned many times over on this board, he was also nominated the Isles MVP one year by the Isles org.

And they felt that he was so good and valuable to trade him away?! He's been a hot/cold goalie for his whole career... capable of showing #1 quality at times and even more capable of sucking and losing confidence for even longer periods of time. I think having Osgood as #1 hurts our Cup chances even more then sub-par defense.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

On no I'm gonna die! I'm gonna die! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! This doesn't hurt!

Hahahaha that was fun! Now guys...guys? Guys? Don't make me kill you Babs!

[Holmstrom96 347]

I agree with others that we have two issues:

1. Defense is mediocre

2. Osgood sucks

I like Conklin, however, he is hot and cold. However, I'll take hot and cold over cold and cold, which is what Osgood has been.

If the Wings don't do something about the goaltending situation we'll be making a first round exit in the play-offs.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Holmstrom96

[The Secret 304]

1. Defense is mediocre

2. Osgood sucks

I would add a 3rd issue that seems to happen yearly in Detroit in that with such skill in our line up our guys tend to play too much ticky tacky hockey with everyone trying to be too fancy or do too much. Especially when we are down I think we need to change the game plan to an even more basic strategy and shoot the damn puck at the net and crash for some ugly garbage goals and forget trying to get onto the nights highlight reel. And I don't mean shoot the puck toward the net, I mean get pissed and lean into a shot and hit the damn goalie in the nugget to ensure a rebound and chance for an garbage goal. How many times do we see the guys make one too many plays that ultimately spoil a good opportunity, or opt to pass instead of letting a screamer go.

[b.shanafan14 733]

We have cheap goaltending that has the potential to be very good, but both tenders are in a funk, and as others have said, what you need to get out of that is a couple good games. Unfortunately, the $53 mil team in front of our $2.5 mil goaltending turns over the puck for an entire first period and gives a cold goaltender a 2 on 0 for his first shot on goal and other such events. Goaltending can play a s*** load better, but I blame our defensive effort first.

[RedWingsRox 614]

Does our team have a specific goalie coach? I heard some teams do.

And maybe a team psychologist to get the mental toughness back ... is Tony Robbins available for a pep talk?

[puckloo39 5,686]

Does our team have a specific goalie coach? I heard some teams do.

And maybe a team psychologist to get the mental toughness back ... is Tony Robbins available for a pep talk?

Jim Bedard, the best in the business. The current situation in goal isn't something he can solve.

[C-Dub 0]

It's no secret that Ozzie needs a good defense to clean up his rebounds and bail him out (no pun intended). He'll make a few stellar saves at times but otherwise he will just be solid. So....either we start playing defense as we did last year OR we need us a new goalie. The way we are playing defense right now Ozzie won't be below 3.00 GAA any time soon.

I doubt Conklin will be any better and well, Howard would be worth a shot but they gotta take a good hard look at him now and not in March.

Edited December 16, 2008 by C-Dub

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I agree with others that we have two issues:

1. Defense is mediocre

2. Osgood sucks

I like Conklin, however, he is hot and cold. However, I'll take hot and cold over cold and cold, which is what Osgood has been.

If the Wings don't do something about the goaltending situation we'll be making a first round exit in the play-offs.

Honestly I think both Ozzy and Conklin have been hot and cold. Ozzy looked particularly bad last night, but usually combines some amazing saves with some total brain farts. Same goes for Conks. He doesn't give me a lot more confidence.

Agree about defense. Though I would specify it's team defense, not just the defenseman. Bad turnovers and bad linechanges have played a big factor. This whole damn team has been hot and cold, except maybe offensively speaking.

[Torless 0]

The problem seems to be mirroring what is happening across the league. Some goaltenders are flourishing with the new rules and others are struggling despite recent strong seasons. For as much as I do not like Turco, he is having an equally bad season despite being strong in '07-'08... even Nabokov is having problems and is relying upon his team to bail him out on many nights. He seems to be getting stronger, but it is obvious that the Sharks are playing better defensively as of late. Not only are the Wings still adjusting to the new faceoff rules, they're also struggling to find a balance after being called for hooks left and right at the beginning of the season... I truly think that defense is having to adjust their game completely based on all the weak calls being made league-wide... I don't know that there is a conspiracy, but a lot of edge has been lost since the Wings were taking 7+ penalties per game at the start of the season.

I think the Osgood thing is several different issues... if you have been watching closely, many of the bad goals are dumb luck and bad defensive plays. I think this has led to a lack of confidence on Ozzie's part as he just can't seem to break out of 3 GAA no matter how well he plays in a given game. The mental part is affecting the physical game... and this happened late last season too before the playoffs. I think in some areas he seems stronger and in others weaker... we've seen him make some amazing stops over the past couple games and let in some stinkers. Who doesn't want to shout at the goalie when a goal goes in - it's their job, right?

What it comes down to is this - Babcock has been honest when his goalies have been off their game, and he's not sugar coating anything for their benefit. When he says he's liking what he sees regardless of what the score may be you know things are going to be ok. Bottom line is - we aren't the pros here. Ozzie does seem to be off his game, but history shows that he will turn this around. His team appears to believe in him... why not the fans?

whether it be bad luck, shot confidence, no drive or bad gear it isn't going unnoticed... just take a deep breath. Life goes on.

[Johnny Law 15]

I understand the frustration with the team and ceratianly it is easy to focus that on Ozzie but I still don't think he's the problem. Take last night's game.

First goal is all Franzen's, a turn over like that with no one behind him is just bad.

Second goal Maltby crosses the ice to double up on the guy entering the zone, not realizing that a third offensive player has joined the rush. D-man is forced to cover the pass between the two unaccounted for players and simply hope Ozzie can make the save. It would be nice if he could but the whole play starts with Maltby not thinking and coming cross ice to engage a player already maned up.

Third was the penalty shot, that at best is a 50/50 proposition.

Ozzie had lots of good saves on plays that were a direct result of blown assignments, he will improve if the defense in front of him improves.

Its a mixed bag right now, some times they only give 50% other times they give 110% but its a dumb play to make. Maltby going cross ice takes a ton of effort and says to me that he is going all out to make a play, unfourtnelty it wasn't the right decision.

[Frozen-Man 144]

So, if every defensive breakdown is supposed to result in a goal, what is the point of even having a goalie?

I could see if he were getting shelled every game, but this unacceptable. The Wings are constantly playing in a deficit from the first 2 - 3 minutes a game, making them play the other teams game. Hell, they might as well have just kept Manny Legace, this is the same s*** as 2005-06.

He's always been as good as defence is, when his defence struggles, he sucks. Hence he didn't do so hot in other uniforms.

Not every defensive breakdown should result in a goal but that first goal last night was a 2 on 0 and was really not Osgood's fault. The second wasn't much better. Ozzy did not play good last night or really all season but the team put the wings down by 2 goals early on and Ozzy poor play combined with the 2-0 and 2-1 situations that he is facing in the first minutes is putting the Wings behind and further crippling his confidence.

[OsGOD 3]

Well on the bright side, ozzie lowered his GAA... looks like our fowards should share some blame.... i mean the avs goalie only played one game since halloween...

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Off topic, but every time I see this thread title, I hear it to the tune of "what do you do with a drunken sailor."

[Frozen-Man 144]

You can blame the defense for a few goals, but hell, you think Anderson or Thomas or Luongo have great defense behind them? Sure the D isn't as good as last year (for some unexplainable reason) but maybe the great D before was just covering for the Osgood? Now that the Defense can't bail him out, we see the true goalie he's become. It's not going to get better. It's just November has turned into it's just December, what's next? It's just March? It's just April?

Detroit has the worst goalie in the league, by far. He hasn't bailed us out once. It's time for a real #1 goalie. Either stick with Conklin for a month or two, or make a trade. We have tons of players we could easily trade to get a 2-3 million dollar goalie.

Versus brought up a very telling visual of shots blocked. The Av's blocked everything in the middle zone. As far as I can tell, Detroit rarely blocks anything. And when they do block a shot, it's usually by accident.

Wow, . . . . . . Just wow.

[OsGOD 3]

actually in light of the person whom started this thread and what happened to GW this weekend... i would say next game everyone take off their shoes and start throwing them at Ozzie showing their disdain for the the "almost" conference leading record so far this season.

[Coolio Mendez 7]

And as osgood's #1 fan has mentioned many times over on this board, he was also nominated the Isles MVP one year by the Isles org.

Osgood has never been a great goalie, just steady and good. Coincidentally, the Wings are good enough that all they have needed is steady. I guess even less than steady can get it done......as his record suggests.

He is locked up for the next couple of years so he will be in Detroit but the salary is low enough that he could become the back-up (I think that will happen).........on an average team? He would be less than an average goalie and I can't see a whole lot of teams where he would be the starter even.

Let's face it, he has been a back-up for the bulk of his career anyways, even Detroit has recognized this.....they pay him what he's worth. Even last year, Hasek was looked on as the starter for most of the season.

I find it funny how the Detroit brass and even Osgood himself have always known that he is what he is..........yet many Wings fans want to paint him as a superstar.

Has he ever gotten paid star money? They need to ask themselves why. Has he ever gotten International invites? No.....back up goalies don't play in the Olympics.

[Casey 145]

For God's sake. Osgood is struggling, but he'll pull it together. I promise.

Geez, all you yahoo's here screaming for him to be taken out behind the woodshed and shot were the same lot who were absolutely certain that, in the event of an injury to Hasek, were the Wings to be "forced" to rely on Osgood last Post Season, they'd surely be DOOOOOOOMED!!!

Everyone get a nice, long, exultant look at the perty, sparkly things Mr. I handed out a week or so ago?

He'll pull it together. And when he does, there won't be a ONE of you who will acknowledge it. Not a ONE of you. It will be the Defense, or better Team play, or weaker opponents, or some other such non-sense. And every ONE of you will do nothing but whine about how "bad" he was to start the Season, regardless of how well he happens to be playing.

Y'all ARE Wings fans, are you not? As if you've NEVER seen Osgood struggle. Never. And as if you've never noticed that Oz tends to follow up a great statistical Season with a mediocre start to the next Season, only to turn it on by mid-Season.

Look it up, folks. It's a fact.

Again.....Oz will be fine.

For all your whining like a little girl with sand in her tootie, reminding everyone how "mediocre" Osgood's always been....

You'd think you'd be MORE concerned about a 6 time Norris Winner who can't seem to get HIS Game back on track, rather than a goaltender who, (according to most), is doing nothing more than being exposed for the "average" 'tender he's always been.

It's Ozzie's second full game in the new gear, after having worn it ONLY in practice thus far this Season. His glove work sucks. He'll get under control....

Again....I promise.

<sheesh>

It's his second full game in the new gear, and you can tell it's affecting him. There was one goal last week where if he'd had the extra inch, the puck would've hit pads, not the net. That takes some getting used to, just like driving a new car for the first time. He'll be just fine, once he gets that swagger of confidence back.

[AtomicPunk 296]

I understand the frustration with the team and ceratianly it is easy to focus that on Ozzie but I still don't think he's the problem. Take last night's game.

First goal is all Franzen's, a turn over like that with no one behind him is just bad.

Second goal Maltby crosses the ice to double up on the guy entering the zone, not realizing that a third offensive player has joined the rush. D-man is forced to cover the pass between the two unaccounted for players and simply hope Ozzie can make the save. It would be nice if he could but the whole play starts with Maltby not thinking and coming cross ice to engage a player already maned up.

Third was the penalty shot, that at best is a 50/50 proposition.

Ozzie had lots of good saves on plays that were a direct result of blown assignments, he will improve if the defense in front of him improves.

Its a mixed bag right now, some times they only give 50% other times they give 110% but its a dumb play to make. Maltby going cross ice takes a ton of effort and says to me that he is going all out to make a play, unfourtnelty it wasn't the right decision.

Well said. Like I said in the GDT, if I was Franzen, after that goal, I would have skated back to Ozzie and let him punch me in the face.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Well said. Like I said in the GDT, if I was Franzen, after that goal, I would have skated back to Ozzie and let him punch me in the face.

Mule has had a few major mistakes like that this year. . . . Maybe it will help slightly limit his big pay raise next year.

[Outsider 42]

Jim Bedard, the best in the business. The current situation in goal isn't something he can solve.

With all due respect, to both yourself, and to Mr. Bedard....

Jim Bedard, in his twelve year tenure as goaltending coach for the Detroit Red Wings, has produced precisely how many NHL goaltenders, out of a stable of how many good goaltending prospects?

I'm not even talkin' about Top Notch, elite goaltenders. I'm talking about guys who've made it to the NHL in any capacity, at all.

Oddly enough....

Ozzie was considered one of the bright up and comers in the League right up until Bedard came on-board. Matter of fact, Chris Osgood placed second in Vezina voting in 1996, the year before Bedard arrived, at the age of 23. Never quite reached that level again. Some fans say he regressed.

Ozzie hires a DIFFERENT goaltending coach last Season, and has what many consider to be his best ever Season, playing the best hockey of his career. AND he just happens to lead the Wings to the Cup.

Just recently.....

Joey MacDonald was considered a solid goaltending prospect. Sucked in Detroit. Ended up being good for nothing more than a practice goalie. Joey Mac is, to my recollection, the only Wings goaltending prospect to even make it to the NHL. And THAT as a back-up who's only seeing ice time because Goalie 2021 is out with yet another long term injury. As soon as Ricky's back, Joey will be lucky to see a game a month.

Stefan Liv was a can't miss, sure-fire, fantastic SEL prospect.....arrives in Detroit.....and sucks. Goes home without ever having played an NHL game. Rumor has it that the only useful coaching Bedard provided for Liv was to take away his laptop computer so he'd stop obsessively reading posts by fans slamming his awful play on Griffins message boards .

Jimmy Howard was the, (flourish of trumpets), "Goalie of the Future", (dundundun). He was lights out at UMaine. Pretty good in his rookie year in the AHL, too. Unfortunately, he has REGRESSED every year since then, with each year he spends in the Detroit system getting progressively worse. It's now reached the point that he's been passed on the Organizational Depth Chart by not only a European goaltender who's never played the North American game, but by an EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD fresh outta the Draft.

There are many more, highly touted, greatly anticipated, long awaited.....Each name blending into the next as one after another they fall by the wayside, despite all of their "potential", all of their "talent"......not one of them good enough to even make it as a regular NHL BACK-UP?

Best in the business?

I'd say the Allaire Bros. are only the START of the long and distinguished list which places above and beyond Jimmy Bedard.

All the success the Wings have had developing Players, at EVERY position....

Every position but ONE, that is.

That is one helluvan unfortunate coincidence for the "best (goaltending coach) in the business."

Edited December 17, 2008 by Outsider

[TheOwl 77]

Mule has had a few major mistakes like that this year. . . . Maybe it will help slightly limit his big pay raise next year.

It must feel weird making a million dollar a year, scoring basically a goal every two games, when people like Flipulla are getting 3 million and doing nothing.

The one goalie who suffered the worst from the lock-out and rule changes was Theodore. This guy won the damn Vezina and after the lockout collapsed, at least he's found his game. The thing about Osgood is, he looks tiny in that net. Look at Giguere, looks like a Sumo wrestler. He's a terrible athlete, but he's huge. Osgood is just getting old. The fire within him is dieing. He wanted to be #1 so bad last year. Him and Hasek played great, best GA in the league. Then Hasek broke down and Osgood has his chance. Maybe the pressure to repeat is just so great.

Conklin right now is a lot better then Hasek in his last years, so how could we go from best GA in the league, to the worst? Defense? Or motivation. Conklin if anyone should be playing his heart out.

[Outsider 42]

The one goalie who suffered the worst from the lock-out and rule changes was Theodore. This guy won the damn Vezina and after the lockout collapsed, at least he's found his game.

Jim Carrey won the Vezina once, too. Once. And for the record, Theodore has been so bad in Washington that he's been replaced by Brent Johnson.

The thing about Osgood is, he looks tiny in that net. Look at Giguere, looks like a Sumo wrestler. He's a terrible athlete, but he's huge.

Osgood is considerbly smaller than Giguere, without even factoring in the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man get up Giggy wears. Matter of fact, Osgood isn't terribly "big" as a person, let alone as a goaltender. His size hasn't been too much of a handicap over the course of his 16 year career. And it didn't exactly cripple him during the Cup run just five months ago, either.

Osgood is just getting old.

We are all "getting old", every day we draw breath on this Earth. Oz was "young" enough to get the job done in sparkling fashion last Season.

The fire within him is dieing.

LOL. I wouldn't bet on that.

He wanted to be #1 so bad last year. Him and Hasek played great, best GA in the league. Then Hasek broke down and Osgood has his chance. Maybe the pressure to repeat is just so great.

Maybe the whole Team needs to get their Game back, 'cause while Oz IS struggling, he's far from the only one. He just happens to be the one who has a flashing red light and a foghorn go off every time he makes a mistake. Kinda draws a bit more attention to his mistakes than is drawn to the mistakes of say......Kronner. Or Stuart. Or Lebda. Or even Lidstrom. (Yes...I know.....SACRILEGE!)

Conklin right now is a lot better then Hasek in his last years,

HUH? WHAT? Okay, no one would ever, ever, mistake me for a fan of Dominik Hasek, but you have GOT to be kidding with THAT comment. Either kidding, deluded, or seriously inebriated. If it's the third, kindly share some of what YOU'RE having, as your comment just made me waste a perfectly good GG& Soda when I spat it all over my keyboard.

so how could we go from best GA in the league, to the worst? Defense? Or motivation. Conklin if anyone should be playing his heart out.

Motivation. And conditioning.

Let's not forget that these guys just spent what I'll wager was 90% of their already shortened off-season drinking, partying and travelling, where they usually spend it killing themselves in training.

[puckloo39 5,686]

With all due respect, to both yourself, and to Mr. Bedard....

Jim Bedard, in his twelve year tenure as goaltending coach for the Detroit Red Wings, has produced precisely how many NHL goaltenders, out of a stable of how many good goaltending prospects?

I'm not even talkin' about Top Notch, elite goaltenders. I'm talking about guys who've made it to the NHL in any capacity, at all.

Oddly enough....

Ozzie was considered one of the bright up and comers in the League right up until Bedard came on-board. Matter of fact, Chris Osgood placed second in Vezina voting in 1996, the year before Bedard arrived, at the age of 23. Never quite reached that level again. Some fans say he regressed.

Ozzie hires a DIFFERENT goaltending coach last Season, and has what many consider to be his best ever Season, playing the best hockey of his career. AND he just happens to lead the Wings to the Cup.

Just recently.....

Joey MacDonald was considered a solid goaltending prospect. Sucked in Detroit. Ended up being good for nothing more than a practice goalie. Joey Mac is, to my recollection, the only Wings goaltending prospect to even make it to the NHL. And THAT as a back-up who's only seeing ice time because Goalie 2021 is out with yet another long term injury. As soon as Ricky's back, Joey will be lucky to see a game a month.

Stefan Liv was a can't miss, sure-fire, fantastic SEL prospect.....arrives in Detroit.....and sucks. Goes home without ever having played an NHL game. Rumor has it that the only useful coaching Bedard provided for Liv was to take away his laptop computer so he'd stop obsessively reading posts by fans slamming his awful play on Griffins message boards .

Jimmy Howard was the, (flourish of trumpets), "Goalie of the Future", (dundundun). He was lights out at UMaine. Pretty good in his rookie year in the AHL, too. Unfortunately, he has REGRESSED every year since then, with each year he spends in the Detroit system getting progressively worse. It's now reached the point that he's been passed on the Organizational Depth Chart by not only a European goaltender who's never played the North American game, but by an EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD fresh outta the Draft.

There are many more, highly touted, greatly anticipated, long awaited.....Each name blending into the next as one after another they fall by the wayside, despite all of their "potential", all of their "talent"......not one of them good enough to even make it as a regular NHL BACK-UP?

Best in the business?

I'd say the Allaire Bros. are only the START of the long and distinguished list which places above and beyond Jimmy Bedard.

All the success the Wings have had developing Players, at EVERY position....

Every position but ONE, that is.

That is one helluvan unfortunate coincidence for the "best (goaltending coach) in the business."

All of that from one little statement? Amazing. You really are amazing. I stopped reading about half-way through this latest diatribe.

Wow.

edit: I am sure I will be sorry for asking, but who's Ozzie's coach this year? I refer to your statement:

Ozzie hires a DIFFERENT goaltending coach last Season, and has what many consider to be his best ever Season, playing the best hockey of his career. AND he just happens to lead the Wings to the Cup.

Ozzie doesn't even resemble the same goalie we last saw in June. Can we get that coach back, maybe? The only difference in the team this season vs last season is the absence of Hasek.

Edited December 17, 2008 by puckloo39