Drapers line

[Red Crazy 201]

I am glad to see most of us are on the same page!

I wonder if the Wings could put Maltby on the LTIR and bring up Helm? Scratch Kopecky and use Meech, Helm, and Draper on the 4th line. Maltby could have a "groin injury" and that would avoid putting him on waivers.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Once the roster limit expires at the deadline, the Wings will have much more flexibility. At the very least to bring up Helm. I dont think Abdelkader is the answer yet. He looked pretty lost at times in the defensive zone during the pre-season. Good energy, and he'll be a great 3rd liner, but I wouldn't want him in the playoffs, even if it means we have to keep someone in from the current 4th line.

I'd like to see Kopecky scratched in favor of Helm at the least, but ideally I'd like to see us sign someone who is actually is a physical presence yet not a waste of a roster spot - Chris Neil - throw Helm in full time, and rotate Draper and Maltby, but I don't see any way that Draper doesn't stay in the line up, save for an injury.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I disagree with those who have said Draper is the best player on the line. Hes been the worst defensively out there, bar none, and does s*** with his offensive chances. Offensively, hes become the natural worst on that line, and lately hes been the worst defensively. And the "hitting" that the entire line does is a complete joke. Draper and Kopecky have been credited with a ton of hits, yet they're all gimmes. They bounce of the player, and in Kopecky's case, he ends up on his ass when he gives a hit more often than not. While Draper is awesome on faceoffs, hes a liability to be on the ice for anything more than that.

Ironically, Maltby has been the most serviceable guy on the 4th line. On some nights, he actually looks like an NHL 4th liner. Sadly, though, Draper is gonna be the one given a free pass this year. And Kopecky will be a member of this team until July 1st, whether hes in the lineup or not....although I'd pat Holland on the back if he shipped off Kopecky and told Marian to suck it up before the deadline.

[egroen 384]

Don't we take the cap hit even if they do retire? Since the age at which they signed the contracts.

You're right, I forgot about that -- multi-year contracts signed after the age of 35 count against the cap, even if the player retires, is sent to the minors or misses an entire season due to injury. What a stupid rule.

Edited January 13, 2009 by egroen

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I'd really like to defend these guys, but I can't. The fourth line is, in my opinion, the Red Wings biggest and most glaring weakness looking forward. My heart sinks every time they take the ice, almost guaranteed to get trapped in the defensive zone and give up a goal or a penalty. Remember the days when they were our crack shutdown line and could chip in offensively, too? Those days are long gone. I don't even care about scoring, if they could just spell our productive players for a handful of minutes a night and not be huge liabilities out there it'd be just fine.

Honestly, the only reason Kopecky is out there is because he has a pulse. He's the new and improved Devereaux. Hell, give me 450 grand a year and I can hang out in my own zone for a few minutes a night and get nothing done.

[Sepster 0]

I'm utterly shocked... I've just read through two pages of complaining about a certain aspect of the Wings and everyone is pretty much in agreement and no flame wars have errupted.

This IS a changed world we are in, indeed.

P.S. I agree, the 4th line is brutal. As someone said before, when your 4th line is left on the bench while one of your top 2 are playing against the opposing teams top lines, thats a problem.

Even more glaring, when Draper and Maltby have made their careers out of being "Defensive Specialists" and their more often than not the 4th penalty kill unit off the bench (Behind Datsyuk/Franzen, Zetterberg/Cleary, Filppula/Hossa) that's terrible.

[esteef 2,679]

I have the perfect 4th line.

McCarty - Lilja - Downey.

Nobody could mess with us then.

I'm with ya, but I like:

Helm - Meech - Downey

esteef

[Red Crazy 201]

You're right, I forgot about that -- multi-year contracts signed after the age of 35 count against the cap, even if the player retires, is sent to the minors or misses an entire season due to injury. What a stupid rule.

Wow this is new to me! So what your saying is if they are traded that would be the only way that the Wings wouldn't take a cap hit for Maltby and Draper?

[egroen 384]

Wow this is new to me! So what your saying is if they are traded that would be the only way that the Wings wouldn't take a cap hit for Maltby and Draper?

Correct.

[drwscc 212]

I was at the game last night, and there was a brutal Dallas turnover in the 1st I think, and I got excited, until I saw that it was the 4th line out, and Kopecky had the puck. I turned to my casual Stars fan brother, and told him not to worry because there was no scoring threat on the ice. Sure enough, turnover happened, and Dallas escaped.

Our 4th line is BRUTAL, there is no way around it. Drapes and Malts are just not getting it done, and I think Kopay got derailed by that broken leg. I still like him though, and hope he can get back on track. I yelled out to him during the game "Kopper, you're useless, but I love you anyway." I guess I like the underdogs. However, as long as there is a chance we can resign Hossa, no way is Kopay going anywhere.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Correct.

The player had to be 35 before June 30th of the year the contract was to be implemented. Draper's new contract was supposed to take effect in 04-05, meaning he had to be 35 before June 30th of 2004. He wasn't. Therefore, that clause isn't applicable to Draper's contract...

...but he DOES have a NTC.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

It's the worst 4th line in hockey.

They add zero toughness, zero goals, and no positives whatsoever. If Babcock is such the hard ass that he portrays, then he'll man up and demolish that line after the Father/ Son roadtrip.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I'm with ya, but I like:

Helm - Meech - Downey

esteef

Verified for truth. That would be the best line and I can gaurantee it would provide results.

[r0bert8841 0]

to me, all of them are useless and should not b taking up the huge cap space they are

but i'm not in that locker room and draper has that A on his jersey for a reason, and its aparent that reason is not for his on ice work.

[egroen 384]

The player had to be 35 before June 30th of the year the contract was to be implemented. Draper's new contract was supposed to take effect in 04-05, meaning he had to be 35 before June 30th of 2004. He wasn't. Therefore, that clause isn't applicable to Draper's contract...

...but he DOES have a NTC.

He does indeed have a NTC -- But the extension he signed on October 25, 2007 (three-year, $4.75-million contract) went into effect July 1, 2008. So whether he is physically there or not, he will be factored into the salary cap until 2011!

[oldredbarnman 13]

How about we name them "The Arctic Circle" line. -29 below 0 and falling,

[taxijim 11]

I'm with ya, but I like:

Helm - Meech - Downey

esteef

I like that....the Manitoba Mafia on the same line. But seriously,look at the 4th line we had in the playoffs & the 4th line we have now ....no comparison. With Helm at center the unit constantly added energy,kept the puck out of our end, & even added a few key goals. I complained about Kopecky at the beginning of this season & most here said he needed time & was coming on. How much time does the guy need?? I wouldn't want to write Draper totally out of the picture yet....make him ride the pines for a while & he might get an attitude ajustment. Anyway, the 4th line now has no chemistry & the whole team is suffering because of it.

[Mors 201]

I disagree with those who have said Draper is the best player on the line. Hes been the worst defensively out there, bar none, and does s*** with his offensive chances. Offensively, hes become the natural worst on that line, and lately hes been the worst defensively. And the "hitting" that the entire line does is a complete joke. Draper and Kopecky have been credited with a ton of hits, yet they're all gimmes. They bounce of the player, and in Kopecky's case, he ends up on his ass when he gives a hit more often than not. While Draper is awesome on faceoffs, hes a liability to be on the ice for anything more than that.

Ironically, Maltby has been the most serviceable guy on the 4th line. On some nights, he actually looks like an NHL 4th liner. Sadly, though, Draper is gonna be the one given a free pass this year. And Kopecky will be a member of this team until July 1st, whether hes in the lineup or not....although I'd pat Holland on the back if he shipped off Kopecky and told Marian to suck it up before the deadline.

This is what bothers me the most, Kopecky is leading the team in "hits"...but if you actually look at these "hits" they're not exactly instilling fear in our opponents.

[Guest mindfly]

Its absolutely a salary cap/waiver issue. When Osgood was injured, the Wings couldn't even bring up Larsson/Howard for a game or two without putting Osgood on LTIR. And the issue won't go away. Many of the Wings' contracts are up in June. There will be no cap space room next year either - just trying to re-sign 2 out of the Big 3 who need renewals (Z, Franzen, Hossa), cap space will be tight - not to mention all of the others who hope for even modest raises. Unfortunately, Maltby and Draper are already both signed for next year (and Draper even the year after that).

What incentive (other than the hope of SOMEDAY being a Wing) does Ville Leino have to re-sign with Detroit? His contract expires in June. He led the league in Finland. He's leading the Griffins in scoring. Since this is his first year in the AHL, isn't he waiver-exempt for at least another year? So, say he signs with Detroit again. Chances are, he'll end up in GR again due to waiver eligibility. (Just like Helm this year, just like Ericsson this year). Chances are, call-ups will be tight again next year due to cap space.

If he signs with any other team, he'll be on the NHL roster - just like his top counterparts this year who came over from Europe. While the hope of SOMEDAY being a Wing is pretty good incentive for us fans - from a realistic standpoint, is it better for his future to go somewhere else next year?

What is the harm of putting Maltby out on waivers now? So, he gets taken. Seems to me that it would settle this year's problem and next. If he doesn't get taken, let him choose GR or retirement. Kopecky? Same deal - though his contract is up in June anyway. How long do we sacrifice good prospects to keep the older veterans around a few more years?

I wouldn't be surprised if he packed his bags and went home to finland or maybe try for another team, Leino from what I can understand is a player who loves to play and wants to proove himself, he was like that in Sm-Liiga atleast... If wings just could skip the loyalty thing and not be afraid to waive players like kopecky this team would look much better.

[T.Low 1,011]

I wouldn't be surprised if he packed his bags and went home to finland or maybe try for another team, Leino from what I can understand is a player who loves to play and wants to proove himself, he was like that in Sm-Liiga atleast... If wings just could skip the loyalty thing and not be afraid to waive players like kopecky this team would look much better.

Yes. At what point does "having assets" become "hoarding" good players and keeping them down for the sake of "having" them and not using them?

[eva unit zero 271]

I wouldn't be surprised if he packed his bags and went home to finland or maybe try for another team, Leino from what I can understand is a player who loves to play and wants to proove himself, he was like that in Sm-Liiga atleast... If wings just could skip the loyalty thing and not be afraid to waive players like kopecky this team would look much better.

Kopecky has been, IMHO, the best player on his line this season. He's also the youngest and cheapest. Waiving the three of Draper/Maltby/Lebda, and Chelios retiring and replacing them with Griffins would make keeping Franzen/Hudler/Samuelsson/Hossa more likely and having Meech as the 13th forward/7th defenseman on a 21-man roster would help free up space.

[egroen 384]

Draper could literally be abducted by aliens and the Wings are still on the hook for his salary towards the cap until 2011. He signed a multi-year deal after the age of 35 and has a NTC.

Maltby does not fall into those categories, however.

Edited January 13, 2009 by egroen

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

Draper could literally be abducted by aliens and the Wings are still on the hook for his salary towards the cap until 2011. He signed a multi-year deal after the age of 35 and has a NTC.

At least we would know that aliens do exist. It is worth some salary cap issues for Wings.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I wouldn't bench Draper as IMO, he's had the most impact game to game out of that group. Drapes has been doing more noticeable hitting, he's been getting involved and he's still able to carry the puck with speed and his faceoff ability is indispensible.

Now, as for Matlby and Kopecky. I can't believe we can't sit one of the guys, even just to rest so a young, hungry guy with a good two way game and good speed like Abdelkader can't get some game time in.

Kopecky is my least favorite Wing b/c he's the most useless IMO. He's a big guy but doesn't play that big. He throws an occasional hit but he doesn't really check with authority. And it sure would be nice if he did considering most of our players hit to impede and take guys out of plays, which is very important, but Kopa, with his size should be hitting like Kronner, trying to make statement hits and change things. But he doesn't.

If Kopecky never played another game for us I wouldn't lose 1 second sleep over it honestly. I doubt he'll ever transfer his scoring prowess to the next level, especially on Detroit. I'd deal him for a pick.

I'm thinking that that is exactly what will happen. The they will be able to bring up Leino or Helm.

Malts and Drapes aren't going anywhere though I wouldn't be surprised to see Drapes sit in the very near future.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Kopecky has been, IMHO, the best player on his line this season. He's also the youngest and cheapest. Waiving the three of Draper/Maltby/Lebda, and Chelios retiring and replacing them with Griffins would make keeping Franzen/Hudler/Samuelsson/Hossa more likely and having Meech as the 13th forward/7th defenseman on a 21-man roster would help free up space.

Not gonna happen.