Keeping "The Big 3"

[C-TownWing 0]

Keeping Zetterberg and Hossa is impossible. Lets say the cap stays right where it is, which is optimistic. We are right up against the cap. Now best case senario, Conn Smyth winner Henrik Zetterberg and Marian Hossa care so little about money they decide to split Hossa's current salary, leaving us right up against the cap still, but now both are making around $5 mil a season, a tremendous stretch. Now factor in Hudler, Franzen, and Samuellson wanting and deserving raises each, especially Franzen and Hudler, all would have to go and you would have to replace them with a list of players from GR, cutting the Wings depth in half, the same depth that won us a cup last spring.

I'd like to be as optimistic as the next guy, but the ceiling for my optimism is in the realm of possibility, sign Zetterberg, Franzen and Hudler if we can, and we're lucky enough. I love Hossa as much as the next guy, but don't get too attached.

Exactly...it seems like any halfway realistic "keep Hossa" scenario has us gutting a lot of the rest of the roster. If that's the choice we have, then no thanks. We were fine pre-Hossa, we'll be fine after Hossa.

[pjgj13 30]

What would happen if the cap is at $50 in 2 years and the Wings have a team salary of $55 million before the cap is set. Do players take a certain percent pay cut? Will they get an exception? Will they have to buy out players and release them like post lockout?

[LeftWinger 4,963]

...we were just talking about this at work today. The ONLY way the Wings sign all three is if Zetterberg signs for $6,000,000, Franzen for $3,000,000 and Hossa would have to take $4,000,000. The Wings only have about $15,000,000 available under the cap next season, a little more if it goes up a bit. But even this scenario would see Hudler, Kopecky, Chelios (gone anyhow,) McCarty (gone too,) & Howard gone. They'd have to get Conklin to sign or less as well. (I don't think they are even looking at giving Howard and chance, he may as wel be packaged for some picks this trade deadline.)

...ok, in a perfect world, that would allow the Wings to retain all three, BUT, it'll never happen! Why? Well, Zetterberg will probably get AT LEAST Datsyuk's $6.7. Franzen will get at least $4 million because of Filpulla making $3MM. Hossa would be absolutely insane to sign here for $4MM when he is goning to get league maximum anywhere else. I believe the Wings are too high og Hudler to let him go (or trade him) and they love Sammy too much to NOT offer him a contract...

...one can hope, but I believe they are going to concentrate on Zetterberg and Franzen and whatever is left over, split up between Sammy, Hudler and Kopecky...

...with Filpulla makig $3MM, how much is it gonna take to retain Hudler? He'll rate at least has much as Filpulla, ya think?

...of course if they trade Hudler and Flip and let Sammy go, they MIGHT be able to retain Hossa (as long as he takes a discount (again.))

...sucks to be Holland come July!

[going_top_shelf 6]

I know everyone loves Hossa. I think Hossa is AWESOME and phenomenal player, but my heart still lies with the Mule. I would gladly lose Hossa to keep Franzen and Z.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

...I guess you'd have to ask yourself, would you trade Hudler, Filpulla, Kopecky, Chelios & Sammy for Hossa, Leino, Helm, Eriksson and Abdelkader? Hossa would still have to sign for FAR less than what he is worth!

[This Is Bida 0]

...I guess you'd have to ask yourself, would you trade Hudler, Filpulla, Kopecky, Chelios & Sammy for Hossa, Leino, Helm, Eriksson and Abdelkader? Hossa would still have to sign for FAR less than what he is worth!

First and foremost... absolutely. Kopy and Flip don't do much for me. I'd be sad to see Huds go but I'd be far happier keeping Hossa. Sammy, never been a fan and Cheli is getting up there. From the sounds of it Eriksson is ready and we've already seen that Helm should be in a Wings uniform this year. Yes, it would be a much younger squad but truthfully, I've always said this team needs some more young, high energy kids on our roster.

As for the whole Pittsburgh comments, lets remember one thing here... Hossa had ZERO choice of going to Pitt. While I'm sure he liked playing with Crosby, I'll bet he would tell you he would take Dats on his line over Crosby any day. Did the Pittsburgh fans, media and even Pens PLAYERS get way too worked up when Hossa left? Hell yea! Talk about whinny *******.

That is why IF Hossa is not a Red Wing after this season I will not be all pissy about it. I'll be the first to admit that I'll be upset, but it would never be ANYTHING personal.

Now with that said, it's been very very clear for a while that Hossa has wanted to be a Red Wing for some time. Too many of you people are writing him off and saying he's gone after this year when you're not realizing how bad he'd love to stay with this team.

If the Wings don't win the Cup this year, who has the best chance of winning it in the next 5 years? The Wings.

Truthfully, it's pretty clear that Hossa isn't the type of player who runs after big money. I think as long as the Wings gave him something reasonable and something long team, I would bet Hossa will take it. When I imagine Holland dealing with it, and Holland saying "look, you can go make around 8-10 mill a year on a team that has no chance of winning (basically, back to an Atlanta type of team) or you can stay in Detroit, you won't make as much money but you'll be with an organization that is proven to be very very faithful to it's players".

Anyways, enough rambling. All I'm saying is too many people are just writing it off as it's impossible.

As for me, I'm hoping and praying the man stays a Red Wings until the day he retires. To me he is a perfect example of what every athlete should be!

[Nev 1,085]

I've said it before, but to re-sign Hossa & Zetterberg, we need to find approx $5M in cap space.

Even if we don't re-sign all of Sammuelsson, Hudler, Franzen, Chelios, McCarty, Downey and Kopecky, that only comes to $5.75M - because the problem is that all those guys will have to be replaced by Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm and Leino who total about $3M, for a net cap gain of only $2M

Thats the issue - all our FAs are making so little, that the young 'uns who will replace them are making pretty much the same. Its not just a case of Hossa or Franzen, its Hossa or Franzen, Hudler, Sammuelsson, Kopecky, McCarty, Chelios and Downey.

[r0bert8841 0]

while readding this it seems like people have the wings having 8 defenseman on the roster

lidstrom, raf, kron, stuart, lilja, lebda, meetch, erik

if u trade lilja and lebda/meetch/erik then u have a few more mill under the cap

and throw those 2 in a deal with filp and u can probably get some pretty elite young talent(s) or picks

and have huds go for some nice picks

and not only will we have a strong lienup for next season but we have pretty nice security for our future

and we will probably have 4 rookies on the team ( leino-helm-abelkader-erik-and possibly a young prospect from filp trade) which will help our future even more

[eva unit zero 271]

Jonathan Ericsson will be on the roster next season. His past as a forward, combined with Derek Meech's ability to play forward and defense, might be the secret to what allows us to keep Hossa.

If Ericsson is on the roster as a top six defenseman, and Meech is the only spare, for a 21-player roster, that might allow enough flexibility under the cap to keep Hossa.

First, the signed players from the current roster:

F: Datsyuk, Filppula, Cleary, Holmstrom, Draper, Maltby

D: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

G: Osgood

These players add up to $41,216,666 in total cap hit. Add six to eight more forwards and one goaltender for a complete roster. Assuming the cap is the same $56.7m, that means $15,483,334 in available cap space to sign or replace the following players:

Zetterberg, Hossa, Hudler, Franzen, Samuelsson, Kopecky, Conklin

Zetterberg will likely cost less than Lidstrom currently does. Hank's respect for Nick alone is enough to keep him from asking for more than Nick makes. Look for a contract close to $7m even.

Of Hudler/Filppula/Zetterberg/Datsyuk, Hudler outperformed each of the other three in the season the player turned 24, and is continuing the trend as the years go by. Does this make Hudler the best player of the quartet? Scary thought. And yet, I don't see him costing the Wings more than Filppula does. Probably about $2m or so for a few years.

Franzen is an interesting question. He'll probably be worth decent money in the 35-40 goal range and approaching 55-60 points for the season at the end of the year. He's good defensively and big and physical, and can play all three forward positions. But he just turned 29 and hasn't "proven" anything yet. Is $3.5m too much as an estimate of what he'll go for? Is it too little? It's hard to say.

Samuelsson will probably be close to $1.5m, but as a discount from what his kind of performance and ability would normally earn.

Kopecky will stick around on the cheap, likely about $550k.

I expect either Howard or Larsson to replace Conklin because he can get big money with his performance this year and the Wings can't afford to pay him.

So signing all of those players EXCEPT Hossa already has used up $14.55m in cap space, plus the cap hit of either Howard, Larsson, or someone else.

The only way Hossa stays without significant loss from the roster is if the forwards agree to take big cuts and go something like this:

Zetterberg $4m

Hossa, $4m

Franzen, $2m

Hudler, $1.75m

Samuelsson, $1.5m

Kopecky, $550k

[Guest MrSandMan]

The only way Hossa stays without significant loss from the roster is if the forwards agree to take big cuts and go something like this:

Zetterberg $4m

Hossa, $4m

Franzen, $2m

Hudler, $1.75m

Samuelsson, $1.5m

Kopecky, $550k

So basically what you're saying is there's no chance in hell... If so, I agree!

I'll take Zetterberg over Hossa hands down. And we cannot lose Franzen. Hudler and the others can leave...

[pockets 9]

Hossa wont be back the only way he comes back is if by some act of god.

Heres a question though if... franzen wants too much as in much more then he is worth who would you take Hossa or the Mule

I say we let Sammy and Hossa go im tired of seeing sammy SoG it up although he is playing better this year...

We bring back Z, Fran, Huds, and Kopecky (our grinders are getting old) and replace Sammy with Leino and Helm

We trade Lebda away and bring up Erick

Huds/Dats/Homer Lids/Ralfs Extras Meech and Abdelkader

Franzen/Z/Leino Kronner/Stewie

Cleary/Helm/Flip Lils/Erick

Malts/Drapes/Kopecky

[pockets 9]

Of Hudler/Filppula/Zetterberg/Datsyuk, Hudler outperformed each of the other three in the season the player turned 24, and is continuing the trend as the years go by. Does this make Hudler the best player of the quartet? Scary thought. And yet, I don't see him costing the Wings more than Filppula does. Probably about $2m or so for a few years.

One problem with that Z and Dats were 24 before the rule changes

[zenway9 1]

I think if/when we win the Cup this year, Hossa will leave and sign a gigantic multi-year deal elsewhere. He signed a 1-year deal for a reason.

[Guest nutz2u]

Personally I think Lebda and Sammy should be traded for picks like, yesterday to get a little wiggle room.....Lebda should have been traded b4 the season even started.

Edited January 11, 2009 by nutz2u

[chrisdetroit 189]

First and foremost... absolutely. Kopy and Flip don't do much for me. I'd be sad to see Huds go but I'd be far happier keeping Hossa. Sammy, never been a fan and Cheli is getting up there. From the sounds of it Eriksson is ready and we've already seen that Helm should be in a Wings uniform this year. Yes, it would be a much younger squad but truthfully, I've always said this team needs some more young, high energy kids on our roster.

As for the whole Pittsburgh comments, lets remember one thing here... Hossa had ZERO choice of going to Pitt. While I'm sure he liked playing with Crosby, I'll bet he would tell you he would take Dats on his line over Crosby any day. Did the Pittsburgh fans, media and even Pens PLAYERS get way too worked up when Hossa left? Hell yea! Talk about whinny *******.

That is why IF Hossa is not a Red Wing after this season I will not be all pissy about it. I'll be the first to admit that I'll be upset, but it would never be ANYTHING personal.

Now with that said, it's been very very clear for a while that Hossa has wanted to be a Red Wing for some time. Too many of you people are writing him off and saying he's gone after this year when you're not realizing how bad he'd love to stay with this team.

If the Wings don't win the Cup this year, who has the best chance of winning it in the next 5 years? The Wings.

Truthfully, it's pretty clear that Hossa isn't the type of player who runs after big money. I think as long as the Wings gave him something reasonable and something long team, I would bet Hossa will take it. When I imagine Holland dealing with it, and Holland saying "look, you can go make around 8-10 mill a year on a team that has no chance of winning (basically, back to an Atlanta type of team) or you can stay in Detroit, you won't make as much money but you'll be with an organization that is proven to be very very faithful to it's players".

Anyways, enough rambling. All I'm saying is too many people are just writing it off as it's impossible.

As for me, I'm hoping and praying the man stays a Red Wings until the day he retires. To me he is a perfect example of what every athlete should be!

No way that the Wings are going to say goodbye to kopy, Sammy, Huds and Flip. And replace them with 4 guys from Grand Rapids. That would be just stupid. We would be trading alot of experience for guys that have barely played any in the NHL. Getting younger is great but you don't do it all at once.

That is just not going to happen.

Face the facts man, Hossa is gone. The Wings are going to sign Z, Mule and Huds. They may have to trade away Sammy or Lebda but the numbers just don't add up to keep Hossa unless you gut the team and Kenny just isn't going to do that. We are just to good to trash the roster for 1 guy even if it's Hossa.

As far as Pittsburgh. I think that Therien was one of the reasons that Hossa left. Word is that the players don't like him. I expect Therien to be gone if the Pens don't make the playoffs and they are in danger of just that. It wouldn't surprise me to see Hossa back in Pittsburgh. But thats IMO.

Enjoy the year with Hossa in a Red Wings uniform because he won't be back next year - simple math...

[Yzermania 156]

As much as I'd love to keep Hoss, I'd rather not tear apart our Stanley Cup Championship team to do it.

[b.shanafan14 733]

The only way Hossa stays without significant loss from the roster is if the forwards agree to take big cuts and go something like this:

Zetterberg $4m

Hossa, $4m

Franzen, $2m

Hudler, $1.75m

Samuelsson, $1.5m

Kopecky, $550k

Exactly, just more in depth. It would take bizarro professional sports world to keep Hossa and not lose all of our depth. If such a thing ever happened all wars would stop, diseases would be cured, and hunger eliminated. Thanks for putting it into perspective for those who don't understand simple explanations, Eva. Next topic: Pavel Datsyuk, god or satan?

[WingNut 25 5]

Well we're all seeing, and will continue to see in the years ahead, that the NHL's salary cap is bad for the league. There are too many teams as it is and now we are seeing a situation in Phoenix where they may not be able to make payroll in the very immediate future. There are rumors in Tampa that the Lightning are shopping Lecavalier before is 11 year contract (with a no movement clause none the less) kicks in July 1. The NHL needs to seriously look at contraction and they also need to go back and revisit the CBA. I just find it comical how it has negatively impacted the league. Fans are going to continually be turned away when their favorite players leave because their current team can't keep them. And not that they can't afford to keep them necessarily but cannot under the cap. Look at Pittsburgh. The cap was created for teams like them and look how many players they lost and those losses have negatively impacted them as they are currently sitting out of the playoff picture. Look at a team like Washington who could lose some of their good young stars going forward if the huge contract they gave Ovechkin eats up too much of a continually diminishing cap number. It is a ******* joke and yet another Bettman mistep. We lost an entire season for this?

It makes me sick to think we could lose guys like Hossa, Franzen and Hudler simply because we can't keep them under the cap. We all know Ilitch has the cash to keep them and that makes it worse!

[zenway9 1]

As much as I'd love to keep Hoss, I'd rather not tear apart our Stanley Cup Championship team to do it.

Devils Advocate here...What if we win the Cup again with a huge postseason by Hossa?

[b.shanafan14 733]

Well we're all seeing, and will continue to see in the years ahead, that the NHL's salary cap is bad for the league. There are too many teams as it is and now we are seeing a situation in Phoenix where they may not be able to make payroll in the very immediate future. There are rumors in Tampa that the Lightning are shopping Lecavalier before is 11 year contract (with a no movement clause none the less) kicks in July 1. The NHL needs to seriously look at contraction and they also need to go back and revisit the CBA. I just find it comical how it has negatively impacted the league. Fans are going to continually be turned away when their favorite players leave because their current team can't keep them. And not that they can't afford to keep them necessarily but cannot under the cap. Look at Pittsburgh. The cap was created for teams like them and look how many players they lost and those losses have negatively impacted them as they are currently sitting out of the playoff picture. Look at a team like Washington who could lose some of their good young stars going forward if the huge contract they gave Ovechkin eats up too much of a continually diminishing cap number. It is a ******* joke and yet another Bettman mistep. We lost an entire season for this?

It makes me sick to think we could lose guys like Hossa, Franzen and Hudler simply because we can't keep them under the cap. We all know Ilitch has the cash to keep them and that makes it worse!

My point exactly WingNut, I hate that there are some teams that hug the floor almost refusing to get better, and other teams throwing around frivolous big-money contracts at players who don't deserve them, maxing out the cap and still not icing more than a mediocre club. Then there are the few exceptions like the Wings who draft and develop their own talent, build a deep team with players who have no desire to play elsewhere and making them choose between getting the pay they deserve or playing with the team they want. Its a horribly flawed system that didn't fix much if anything. Wasn't it supposed to prevent $10mil+ per year contracts.

And I also love how the NHL is dying to market a 'dynasty' like the one allegedly starting last year in Pittsburgh and yet they have created a system to cause not parity, but mediocrity in most teams year to year. A similar problem has the possibility of appearing in Detriot next season, except unlike in Pittsburgh where you play under a spineless coach in Therrien and alongside the egos of Crosby and Malkin causing anyone who could to bolt for greener pastures and paychecks soon as they could, you have a team in the Red Wings where players are willing to exchange cash for comfort and cups, but reach a point where it would literally take half the team taking half pay or less to stay.

f*** the salary cap and f*** Bettman.

[r0bert8841 0]

pay them under the table?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

pay them under the table?

New York, Toronto, Montreal, and Detroit would be loaded with superstars if that wasn't kept in check. The fact that a team like New York (and Detroit) could once support 80-90M payrolls and now function with half of that payroll tells you how regulated the funny business is.

Edited January 11, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[thedisappearer 291]

OK, Imma throw out my pipe dream plan to make this work.

Hossa signs for Dats money.

Z signs a 1 year deal at 7.4

Next off season (2 from now), Lids either retires (NOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) or resigns at a greatly reduced price. He has tons of money already, why not get a third straight Cup?

Z get a long deal at Dats money.

But, out of Sammy, Huds, and Mule, we lose two.

[Z and D for the C 712]

In the discussion about the salary cap, what if teams were able to go over the cap to sign our own players, but not for picking up free agents? That way it places much more emphasis on developing your draft picks and what not.

[WingNut 25 5]

I've said it many times before that I think Lids will return from his present contract and take a greatly reduced salary to benefit the organization. I'm hoping at this point that because of the opportunity the Wings granted him that Franzen will be willing to stay for a lower price than some other team would overpay for him on the market. Hudler's breakout season is really complicating things. Hopefully he'll do the same as Franzen. I think Samuelsson is as good as gone. We know Chelios is gone too. Conklin will probably have to be let go to bring up one of the cheaper, younger goalies like Howard or Larsson. The tricky one is gonna be Zetterberg. What is he wanting in terms of dollars? Does he stay around Dats' number or does he take $5 million to help the team? Hossa would have to accept a similar number to make it work.

It is unreal how the NHL wanted "cost certainty" and now the teams this cap was supposed to help have either been hurt by the cap or still can't manage to operate to a profit. I can't imagine how bad things will be if the cap drops to $50 million.