Lidstrom & Datsyuk suspended for skipping ASG

[Broken 16 381]

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hock...sby_in_montreal

There was a clip of it up at TSN as well, it looks like he can barely contain a giggle while talking about their suspensions.

Q. Pavel Datsyuk and Nick Lidstrom will be kept out of their next game on Tuesday evening. How do you feel about that? And did you and Gary discuss that if you didn’t come and take part in some of the events, that that would be the issue for you? And I think you play Wednesday next week.

SIDNEY CROSBY: Yeah, as for them, that’s their decision. It’s up to the player, up to the team in order to keep that in mind.

You know, for an event like this, for the All-Star Game, it’s important to get everyone involved in it, and on board, especially from the players. So I don’t see anything wrong with that, as long as everyone’s aware of the situation. That’s something that guys have to deal with.

As for me, I was planning on being here anyway. It wasn’t a huge issue, so, there wasn’t a lot of discussion with that.

Is this the quote you're talking about? He's spot on. There are enough reasons to dislike Crosby. Do we really need to manufacture more out of thin air?

Edited January 24, 2009 by Broken 16

[sibiriak 84]

I must have missed the part where Crosby bashed the Wings...

"There are none so deaf as those who would not hear."

Try to think in context of the question and the answer given, compare it to the answers to the same question that EVERY other ASG player gave. Crosby should have said something like: " I respect their decision, Pavel and Nick have been great representatives of the NHL in the past and it is unfortunate that they couldn't attend." That's the classy way to say it. Instead he said that he supports the rule, and given that he is in the same situation as Pavel and Nick, he implicitly states that "I'm here and so I'm a nice guy, and they are not, so they are selfish." Not classy at all.

And, I don't think that I'm reading beteen the lines too much.

Edited January 24, 2009 by sibiriak

[lets go pavel 2]

Are you implying that Bettman wouldn't have worked with either of them had they called like Crosby? I guarantee you that if they had called Bettman and expressed what was going on and wanted to find a resolution, he would have worked with them. They didn't, so they didn't, so he didn't. Crosby did...

The rule, as I understand it (and it doesn't seem to be written explicitly anywhere) was created to keep players from faking injuries. As it says here:

Both will miss the Red Wings next game Tuesday night in Columbus under an NHL rule adopted last February that says players who skip the all-star game must demonstrate that they are really injured by sitting out either the game just before or just after the all-star break.

link

If this is the case, and it would make sense, then they have to sit out to prove they are injured. Holland had that discussion with league earlier in the week, and understood that. Assuming that was the intention of the rule, and Holland had no problem with it because it was agreed to at the last GM meeting, why would he call again to try to work out something different?

Then the rule changed, apparently stemming from the conversation with Crosby, and in changing the details it changed the whole purpose of the rule. Explain to me how Crosby's appearance at the off-ice events verifies his injury? Instead of being designed to confirm the authenticity of a player's injuries, the rule became a punishment for not attending the event at all ... a completely different animal entirely! Datsyuk and Lidstrom made their decisions based on one rule, and now are being made an example of for breaking a different one.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I'm not a grouch... I'm just passionate.

I'm mostly responding to people that are claiming that them being suspended is some kind of travesty of justice. It's not. They are, basically, blowing off the All-Star game and deserve to be suspended. Period.

Huh? There's no precedence for this rule change, let alone for the rule being enforced. Holland was warned about the rule, no one except Crosby was given a chance to avoid suspension by showing up for the media wine and dines.

If your a player that's done everything that you can for the game and they spit in your face by suspending you for being hurt (which is the actual letter of the rule being enforced- if you don't play you have to miss one game before or after the allstar game. There is zero option to get out of that by flying to Montreal and standing around injured instead of resting), how are you blowing the game off?

THEY ARE ******* INJURED. They were told they would be suspended for not playing in the game. They were NOT told they could avoid that suspension in any way.

Does Holland want Datsyuk walking around on an injured hip schmoozing with executives for 43% of the "rest" period he's being given to get better and ******* play for his damn team like he gets paid to? NO.

Lidstrom and Datsyuk are employed by the Detroit Red Wings. They were told to rest for 7 days to recuperate their respective injuries (elbow and hip). Both have medical evidence of their injury. Both are ambassadors for this game. Both are respected member of the god damn hockey community. And the NHL literally spit in their face by telling them they would be suspended just for being injured because of a stupid rule that had never, in the history of the NHL, been enforced before. Then, to top it off, the NHL made the Crosby exception by editing the rule less than 12 hours before the event to allow Crosby to avoid suspension.

Don't you dare speak of either of these players "blowing off the all star game". That is not in their character nor their actions.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Then the rule changed, apparently stemming from the conversation with Crosby, and in changing the details it changed the whole purpose of the rule. Explain to me how Crosby's appearance at the off-ice events verifies his injury? Instead of being designed to confirm the authenticity of a player's injuries, the rule became a punishment for not attending the event at all ... a completely different animal entirely! Datsyuk and Lidstrom made their decisions based on one rule, and now are being made an example of for breaking a different one.

Q.E.D.

[egroen 384]

Is this the quote you're talking about? He's spot on. There are enough reasons to dislike Crosby. Do we really need to manufacture more out of thin air?

I like when Crosby states his injury is "real"... and that "others" are just getting rest. Classy.

Shane Doan, Lecavalier, Souray, Campbell and Tkachuk so far have chosen to side with their fellow players, and said if they are injured, especially those two, they do not deserve to be suspended and should not have to be there.

So far I have only heard JS Giguere and Crosby throw Lidstrom and Datsyuk under the bus.

Crosby, of all people, should be shutting his mouth about the whole thing because he received special treatment.

[Broken 16 381]

I like when Crosby states his injury is "real"... and that "others" are just getting rest. Classy.

Shane Doan, Lecavalier, Souray, Campbell and Tkachuk so far have chosen to side with their fellow players, and said if they are injured, especially those two, they do not deserve to be suspended and should not have to be there.

So far I have only heard JS Giguere and Crosby throw Lidstrom and Datsyuk under the bus.

Crosby, of all people, should be shutting his mouth about the whole thing because he received special treatment.

Him recieving special treatment is a bogus claim unless you can show that Lidstrom and Datsyuk made similiar attempts with Bettman. Its fairly obvious that NO attempt was made.

I still don't see where Crosby threw anybody under the bus. I guess I'm not looking hard enough.

[Broken 16 381]

Don't you dare speak of either of these players "blowing off the all star game". That is not in their character nor their actions.

I dared once and I'll dare again... They are blowing it off.

Wake up... Datsyuk and Lidstrom aren't perfect, flawless human beings. No matter how much you would like to pretend they are. They broke the rules and they are being punished. Get over it.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Broken 16

[esteef 2,679]

Him recieving special treatment is a bogus claim unless you can show that Lidstrom and Datsyuk made similiar attempts with Bettman. Its fairly obvious that NO attempt was made.

No attempt needed to be made, the rule was clear. Until the Crosby call of course...

esteef

[lets go pavel 2]

I dared once and I'll dare again... They are blowing it off.

How do you not understand that injured players have NEVER been expected to attend if they weren't playing, that is, until Bettman changed the new rule yesterday? How do you blow off something you aren't expected to attend in the first place?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Him recieving special treatment is a bogus claim unless you can show that Lidstrom and Datsyuk made similiar attempts with Bettman. Its fairly obvious that NO attempt was made.

I still don't see where Crosby threw anybody under the bus. I guess I'm not looking hard enough.

Agreed. I've not seen any compelling evidence about the timing of the various phone calls to the Wings and of the supposed exception for Crosby, but it's kinda pointless to argue anymore. I'll just agree to disagree.

This all should've been handled better, mostly by Bettman. But Holland hasn't really acknowledged that by letting his players sit, he should have already known that by that rule they would have to miss a game.

As I've said, basically it's a bad rule that no one really paid attention to and has now come to light in the stupidest way. Which makes an already lame ASG look like even more of a joke.

The upside being that by Lidstrom and Datsyuk being the ones punished for this, Bettman looks like even more of a douchebag.

Edited January 24, 2009 by haroldsnepsts

[Broken 16 381]

No attempt needed to be made, the rule was clear. Until the Crosby call of course...

esteef

Ok... so the beef here is that Crosby made a call to see what could be worked out and Lidstrom or Datsyuk didn't? Again, you guys imply that Bettman was unwilling to work with anyone except Crosby. Thats some really weird paranoia s*** there...

[esteef 2,679]

Ok... so the beef here is that Crosby made a call to see what could be worked out and Lidstrom or Datsyuk didn't? Again, you guys imply that Bettman was unwilling to work with anyone except Crosby. Thats some really weird paranoia s*** there...

The point is, there's nothing to "work out", it's a rule and every GM knows about it and has agreed to it. Why would anyone think they could just make a phone call and start changing rules to fit their situation? So is every rule up for interpretation now?

Bettman should have just said that in light of the apparent confusion surrounding the rule no players will sit out this year and clarifications will be made for next year so this doesn't happen again. Singling out Dats and Lids is ridiculous and everyone knows it.

esteef

[lets go pavel 2]

Agreed. I've not seen any compelling evidence about the timing of the various phone calls to the Wings and of the supposed exception for Crosby, but it's kinda pointless to argue anymore. I'll just agree to disagree.

This all should've been handled better, mostly by Bettman. But Holland hasn't really acknowledged that by letting his players sit, he should have already known that by that rule they would have to miss a game.

As I've said, basically it's a bad rule that no one really paid attention to and has now come to light in the stupidest way. Which makes an already lame ASG look like even more of a joke.

I think he has, Harold. I dont feel like going back through all the pages here, but somewhere I remember reading that the team was aware of that and prepared to play without them if need be. I don't think that's what he's upset about. I think Holland's issue, and most of our issues, is that by Bettman eliminating Crosby's suspension for showing up at the meet-and-greets he changed the intention of the rule, from one designed to prevent players faking injury to one designed to have them present no matter what. Again, when Lidstrom and Datsyuk made their decisions not to attend the rule was the former, and the missed game was simply to verify their injuries. Since then, the rule has changed and now the missed game has become a punishment for not attending the other events, and they are being made an example of publicly for this.

[egroen 384]

I wonder how excited Crosby will be as an injured 38 year-old to attend the All Star Game, after appearing in about 15 straight. I hope he remembers his responsibilities to the "fans" then.

Crosby, Datsyuk and Lidstrom all knew they might face suspension by not playing in the game... it is more than apparent that Crosby found a way to wiggle out of it by simply attending the event. He was not planning on being there until Sunday originaly, because he had no idea of any "exception". Holland, once made aware of the exception, was not willing to call Datsyuk and Lidstrom and make them attend the event. It's pretty simple.

I think Bettman knew it was a pretty stupid rule, and was faced with ignoring it, or suspending not only Lidstrom and Datsyuk, but also Crosby. Once it was apparent Crosby could attend the entire event, he made an exception, which I am sure the NHL then informed Holland about -- but that was Friday and Holland was not about to ask them to change their plans... especially considering they were injured.

If this "exception" was in place for the past year, why was Crosby not planning on coming until Saturday or Sunday? I also find it hard to believe Lidstrom wouldn't be there if he knew this all along. From Holland's reaction, they obviously did not (or why would he even comment on calling them?).

Edited January 24, 2009 by egroen

[Broken 16 381]

The point is, there's nothing to "work out", it's a rule and every GM knows about it and has agreed to it. Why would anyone think they could just make a phone call and start changing rules to fit their situation? So is every rule up for interpretation now?

Bettman should have just said that in light of the apparent confusion surrounding the rule no players will sit out this year and clarifications will be made for next year so this doesn't happen again. Singling out Dats and Lids is ridiculous and everyone knows it.

esteef

Obviously, there was something to "work out"... because Crosby worked it out. Right? Apparently, this rule is "up for interpretation". Crosby showed that all one needed to do was make a simple phone call. I can't believe that you are implying that Bettman was ONLY willing to work with Crosby and that he is recieving special treatment. Maybe Bettman was willing to work with whoever called him. I know its more fun to create more reasons to hate Crosby... but c'mon.

For whatever reason, Holland refused to call Lidstrom and Datsyuk and give them a heads up. He felt it would be fine for them to just take the suspension and move on. All indications show that neither the Wings or Ken Holland cared enough to make any attempt at a resolution. That's their business.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I think he has, Harold. I dont feel like going back through all the pages here, but somewhere I remember reading that the team was aware of that and prepared to play without them if need be. I don't think that's what he's upset about. I think Holland's issue, and most of our issues, is that by Bettman eliminating Crosby's suspension for showing up at the meet-and-greets he changed the intention of the rule, from one designed to prevent players faking injury to one designed to have them present no matter what. Again, when Lidstrom and Datsyuk made their decisions not to attend the rule was the former, and the missed game was simply to verify their injuries. Since then, the rule has changed and now the missed game has become a punishment for not attending the other events, and they are being made an example of publicly for this.

Ah. I see. I hadn't seen anything from Holland that made me think that, but I may have missed it.

It sucks, but honestly I think the rest will ultimately help them, and by Bettman making an example of these two great players, he only makes himself look more like a dickhead.

[egroen 384]

Ah. I see. I hadn't seen anything from Holland that made me think that, but I may have missed it.

It sucks, but honestly I think the rest will ultimately help them, and by Bettman making an example of these two great players, he only makes himself look more like a dickhead.

It really does, doesn't it? Doesn't he have PR people? Are they being paid enough?

There are plenty of fans from other teams out there right now treating Bettman like a hero, for laying down the law on two Red Wings stars, and of course the media is loving any controversey they can get.

But how does this "You're going to come and you're going to have fun!" treatment look to the players? How about to the GMs and owners? Holland was obviously pissed, and you do not see that too often, if ever, to be honest. All told, Bettman really handled this poorly. It is just strange someone in that position can be so inept.

[esteef 2,679]

Obviously, there was something to "work out"... because Crosby worked it out. Right? Apparently, this rule is "up for interpretation". Crosby showed that all one needed to do was make a simple phone call. I can't believe that you are implying that Bettman was ONLY willing to work with Crosby and that he is recieving special treatment. Maybe Bettman was willing to work with whoever called him. I know its more fun to create more reasons to hate Crosby... but c'mon.

That's exactly the point. Rules SHOULDN'T be open for interpretation, regardless of who's on the phone. Had Sean Avery been in Crosby's shoes, would he have gotten the exception? Absolutely not!

It boils down to Crosby being able to take advantage of a rule change/work out/clarification, without the rest of the league (Dats and Lids in this case) being able to even know about in time to take advantage of. The end result is public embarrassment for two top ambassadors of the league. Everyone should've either been held to the rule as it's written, or they all get a warning this year and it's certainly clarified for next year. That way, nobody looks like an ass in the media and everybody understands how the "rule" will be enforced. Letting Crosby weasel around it f***ed it up for everybody in more ways than one.

Bettman is dumb.

esteef

Edited January 24, 2009 by esteef

[egroen 384]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=264365&lid...s=topStory_main

Currently the first video, "Sending a Message" has Colin Campbell talking about the suspension to Lidstrom and Datsyuk. Twice, he states that a player must miss a game immediately before or after the ASG if tht player does not play because of an injury -- to validate that injury. This was the rule, or policy, that Bettman created last February and presented to the GMs.

Nothing about an "exception" and that somehow being present at the All Star Game validates your injury.

Clearly an exception to the rule was made for Crosby, because he could attend the entire event.

Edited January 24, 2009 by egroen

[Kira 451]

Look, to those of you who think that Nick and Pasha are faking these injuries, I personally think you're nuts.

Explain to me what the point of them being in Montreal is when they can't play...what in the hell is the use of them going up there just to sit around and answer stupid questions from the media? Why can't they just stay home and recuperate with their families to help take care of them? Is that selfish? I don't think so.

If it was your favorite player, you'd be just as hot under the collar as we are. And I appreciate the guys who have come out in support of Nick and Pasha.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The Crosby hate is rediculous, he was going to the game anyway, just showed up early. No exception was made for him. He's hurt too.

The league is making itself look really bad through this whole thing though. That's all that matters, besides Paul Kelly said the other day on TSN he doesnt agree with the NHL's ruling and will have something to say about it, so it might not even happen, but with Bettmans iron fist, you never know.

I also think its stupid the way the NHL is handling this, legit injuries is an excuse to miss. Stay home and get heathly for something that really matters.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[egroen 384]

The Crosby hate is rediculous, he was going to the game anyway, just showed up early. No exception was made for him. He's hurt too.

The league is making itself look really bad through this whole thing though. That's all that matters, besides Paul Kelly said the other day on TSN he doesnt agree with the NHL's ruling and will have something to say about it, so it might not even happen, but with Bettmans iron fist, you never know.

I also think its stupid the way the NHL is handling this, legit injuries is an excuse to miss. Stay home and get heathly for something that really matters.

Colin Campbell states twice in his interview the rule created by Bettman in February was that you had to PLAY in the ASG, or miss one. This exception for Crosby was created later, or he would be suspended as well.

Crosby's later interview where he states he agrees with Bettman, and that "he is actually injured" while the others are just getting "rest", makes it really hard to like the guy. He's literally putting himself on a pedastal and throwing Lidstrom and Datsyuk under the bus.

[redwing_sparty 0]

rock on kenny!

i hate bettman soo much. dude's a tool.

anyone see the little video clip on espn.com about this issue? they two commentators can't get enough of how crosby is showing up even though hes not playing. well big surprise that crosby is sucking bettmans dick.

[Kira 451]

And you wonder why we hate that douchebag Crosby. I bet if the tables were turned, he'd be getting ten tons of support and sympathy. How much you wanna bet???