Lidstrom & Datsyuk suspended for skipping ASG

[Yzersyukstromberg 0]

Bulls***!

Way to think that response through and post and intelligent response.

[55fan 5,133]

Yes, I am absolutely questioning their toughness.

Team captains and alternate captains should be stand-up men who lead by example, play through pain, stick up for their teamates, etc. Steve Yzerman. Cam Neely. Wendel Clark. Mark Messier. Those were tough men. Niether Paval nor Nick has ever struck me as being particularily tough. The All star game is an honour - these two d-bags should have been proud to show up and represent the Wings and the NHL to the best of their ability, nagging pain or not.

Are you saying they should have defied doctor's orders and PLAYED INJURED just to prove how tough they were?

That was the issue at hand when they made their decision not to go. The question was not "Do I attend?" The question was "Do I play?" Both answered "no", as have dozens before them who were injured and didn't want to risk complicating their injuries in a meaningless (standings-wise) game.

Did anyone question Zetterberg when he missed due to injury? Was he a soft Euro who didn't have the balls to play? No. Did anyone expect him to show up even though he didn't play? No. Because until Friday- hours before things began- NO INJURED PLAYER HAD EVER BEEN EXPECTED TO ATTEND. Even when Holland was informed, Nick and Pavel weren't. Holland didn't call them to tell them about the sudden change in both rule and protacal.

To put things in perspective, last year when Luongo missed to be with his pregnant wife, the people who posted here were overwhelmingly supportive of his decision. Even those who don't like him personally agreed that family should come first. That was the only debate that year; not if injured players should go. That was never in question.

We are sitting here dragging two of the classiest guys in hockey through the mud for doing what players have done for generations: They were injured, so they didn't go. They had replacements. The replacements were there to do their job, which includes playing, smiling for the camera, doing interviews, shaking hands, signing autographs, etc.

Had Crosby not called Bettman, who then changed his mind hours before the events started, we would not be having this conversation. They would have been like virtually every other injured player in the history of the ASG.

We'd be saying, "gee, would have been cool to see them, but, oh, well, better they get healed up."

Did you consider Zetterberg to be a soft douchebag last year when he didn't go? If so, you need to get your priorities straight. The players health and well-being is more important than PLAYING in an exhibition game. The "just show up" clause came after the fact.

[Yzersyukstromberg 0]

Suspension was warranted. It's the original rule. It was voted on and passed by the GM's. This rule has been in effect all year. I don't blame the league that teams didn't take the rule seriously and make arrangements when all they had to do was pick up the phone and handle it like Crosby did. Think before you post.

Lidstrom could have went and, in my opinion, should have. He's not injured. He has sore elbows.

The bottom line is that the Wings could have, and should have sent SOMEBODY. I'm sure more than a few younger players would have been thrilled to go. It looks to me like the Wings basically thumbed their nose at the league. The Wings are at fault here too, in my opinion. Obviously not as much as Bettman.

OK, good point. I can disagree that the Wings could have sent some sort of representation...absolutely. But my point was that the exception made for Crosby wasn't set up until the last minute. The rule should have been a steadfast rule, with no exceptions...it was supposed to be that if you need to miss a game either before of after the ASG in order to not play in the ASG itself. Just because Crosby sits there for the weekend and plays the media game shouldn't mean he gets to not play in the ASG and yet not miss any regular games.

Trust me, I think before I post.........that's why I think that the penalty should have been against the club itself rather than against the individual players. There's too much at stake to be handing out suspensions for missing an exhibition game. Whether or not people agree with me, it just doesn't make sense. There are fans buying tickets in Columbus to see the Red Wings and their marquee players, and now they'll be treated to a depleted Wings lineup. There are teams fighting for playoff spots, and now Columbus gets to face a depleted Wings lineup and potentially get a shot at an easy 2 points.

There's just too many factors that make it, in my opinion at least, a questionable suspension. I have no problem with the fact that this rule was laid out at the start of the season, but I disagree with how the punishment is being carried out. There should be some other way to fine the organization and send a message that way.

Anyways, not looking to argue, just want to get my thoughts out there...

[Guest micah]

Go cheer for another team, seriously. If Lidstrom and Datsyuk are not "tough" enough for you, and are literally "d-bags" in your estimation, there is not much this team has going for you. It is a free country and you are free to cheer on anyone you wish. I personally think you have s***-for-a-brain.

<sniff>

You're going to hurt my feelings. I'm very sensitive to how nice people are to me on the internet. Maybe I'll skip the next gala I'm invited to speak at because my feelings are hurt - that'd be about the same as skipping the ASG with a sore elbow.

It's amazing that Gordie Howe was able to protect his elbows so well for all those years! I bet he only attended the ASG at the age of 51 because he wasn't suffering from any aches or pains at the time.

It is a d-bag move to skip an event that exists to promote the league that pays your salary. I think it was a d-bag move to be such seeming ingrates, and I think it reflects negatively on the Wings, on Pav and Nick, and on the league.

I appreciate your suggestion, but I think I'll continue to pull for the Wings. I won't be a homer, I won't make excuses for Wings when I believe they are in the wrong.

[lets go pavel 2]

<sniff>

You're going to hurt my feelings. I'm very sensitive to how nice people are to me on the internet. Maybe I'll skip the next gala I'm invited to speak at because my feelings are hurt - that'd be about the same as skipping the ASG with a sore elbow.

It's amazing that Gordie Howe was able to protect his elbows so well for all those years! I bet he only attended the ASG at the age of 51 because he wasn't suffering from any aches or pains at the time.

It is a d-bag move to skip an event that exists to promote the league that pays your salary. I think it was a d-bag move to be such seeming ingrates, and I think it reflects negatively on the Wings, on Pav and Nick, and on the league.

I appreciate your suggestion, but I think I'll continue to pull for the Wings. I won't be a homer, I won't make excuses for Wings when I believe they are in the wrong.

Can you tell me when, in past years, it has been the expectation that injured players show up for the ASG? Or do you think every injured player is a d-bag for not being tough?

[egroen 384]

<sniff>

You're going to hurt my feelings. I'm very sensitive to how nice people are to me on the internet. Maybe I'll skip the next gala I'm invited to speak at because my feelings are hurt - that'd be about the same as skipping the ASG with a sore elbow.

It's amazing that Gordie Howe was able to protect his elbows so well for all those years! I bet he only attended the ASG at the age of 51 because he wasn't suffering from any aches or pains at the time.

It is a d-bag move to skip an event that exists to promote the league that pays your salary. I think it was a d-bag move to be such seeming ingrates, and I think it reflects negatively on the Wings, on Pav and Nick, and on the league.

I appreciate your suggestion, but I think I'll continue to pull for the Wings. I won't be a homer, I won't make excuses for Wings when I believe they are in the wrong.

I prefer my stars to think more about their health and the success of their team, than suckling at the teet of Bettman and his corporate sponsores, thank you.

Might I suggest Pittsburgh? They are an up-and-coming team, with an illustrious past and current home of perhaps god's greatest gift to the world, Sidney Crosby. He obviously is not a ***** like Lidstrom and Datsyuk.

Oh, and WOW! You speak at galas!!?? Holy crap, I am impressed and thankful you felt it necessary to share that. I'll be sure to respect you more in the future!

[2probert4 8]

bettman apparently bad mouthed lidstrom and dats in a CBC interview, has anyone seen it?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/ondemand/?playlis...eoId=1012983828

[Guest micah]

Can you tell me when, in past years, it has been the expectation that injured players show up for the ASG?

This year we saw Roberto Luongo just off an injurry play in the ASG. He always struck me as a guy who just flat loves the game and is thankful fo rthe opportunity to play it. I like that about Roberto (doesn't mean I like everything about Roberto, but still).

As I mentioned earlier, Gordie Howe played in it when he was 51 years old. Do you suppose Gordie didn't have any tendenitus going on anywhere in his body?

Or do you think every injured player is a d-bag for not being tough?

Some injurred players can play despite their aches, some cannot. I have a problem with players saying "I'm too injurred to play in the ASG, but not too injurred to play in the reg season", yes. If you can play, you should play. If you cannot play, you cannot play.

Nick Lidstrom is a smart player who very seldom gets hit - that's why he never missed a lot of games. That doesn't make him remarkably tough. It has little to do with toughness and more to do with the fact that he is flat out amazing at what he does. He is great. He does not strike me as being particularily tough. Walter Payton was tough, because he elected to hit everything he could and still played.....he also never missed a Pro Bowl that he was elected to, rushed for 275 yard in a game when he had a fever and was throwing up that am, etc. That's tough. Calling Nick Lidstrom tough chepens the word. I mentioned some tough captains above - would you mention nick Lidstrom in the same senence as Steve Yzerman, Mark Messier, Cam Neely or Wendel Clark when it comes to toughness? Great players are not always tough players.

[2probert4 8]

Nashville- (which had an excellent prospectus and raised initial funds faster than any franchise in NHL history)

What does Bettman have to do with Phoenix? The Winnipeg Jets put themselves up for sale in June 1992 (John Ziegler was the NHL's president at the time). Through 3 years, there were no offers from any prospective buyers to keep them in Winnipeg. There was an offer from a Toronto group, but they wanted to move the team to Atlanta. There was an offer from a Calgary group, who wanted to move the team to Minneapolis (who had just lost the North Stars). In 1995, the Shenkarow group opened up the bidding for the franchise to all comers. A group from Phoenix led by Steven Gluckstern and Richard Burke eventually bought the team (at a lower price than asked) and moved the team to Phoenix. So what does Bettman have to do Phoenix?

Atlanta has failed once but 26 owners liked the money they would be getting, so team is staying. Bottom line is all these teams are making money.

So please continue....

If you believe Bettman, then thats your decision.... The information is out there on everything I posted, not like im pulling these numbers out of my head. The Nashville stuff is all FACT , I live in the city and have contacts within the group that monitors how city funds are spent on this team, which means they also get to see NUMBERS. If you think these teams are making money, then please explain why Atlanta, Nashville and Phoenix to name a few, are receiving Revenue Sharing, which will be somewhere in the area of 17 million dollars? Bettman admitted Phoenix was getting advances on their revenue sharing and other monies in order to prop them up until perhaps a new owner was found. Nashville is buying their own tickets for petes sake ! If you want to think they are making money, think as you will; but the rest of us know whats up. Oh by the way, Nashville as of this morning, is averaging just over 13,800 per game in attendance, yep big money maker there eh ?

[HockeytownRN 0]

Yes, I am absolutely questioning their toughness.

Team captains and alternate captains should be stand-up men who lead by example, play through pain, stick up for their teamates, etc. Steve Yzerman. Cam Neely. Wendel Clark. Mark Messier. Those were tough men. Niether Paval nor Nick has ever struck me as being particularily tough. The All star game is an honour - these two d-bags should have been proud to show up and represent the Wings and the NHL to the best of their ability, nagging pain or not.

Is this concept that difficult for people to understand? First of all they weren't VOTED in for the ASG, they were invited. You can question whether Lids should have played or not all you want, but to question him as a captain is laughable. He didn't SHOW UP b/c he obviously decided it was more important to heal (and who knows, maybe he got treatments here in Detroit), instead of showing up at the ASG when he didn't even know it was an option. Has ANY other player just "shown up" in the past years? Name one. I bet you are another Crosby lover, and let me tell you as a Captain of a team he lost all respect from me by the insinuations in all of his comments regarding this whole thing. He didn't PLAY either, so why are you calling Lids and Dats d-bags? You say you speak at Galas? Why don't you watch and see how Lidstrom handles this whole thing and see how he represents himself and his teammates.

[egroen 384]

Micah,

You extoll Luongo as an example. Were you aware Luongo skipped the All Star Game last year so he could be with his pregnant wife?

[esteef 2,679]

Micah,

You extoll Luongo as an example. Were you aware Luongo skipped the All Star Game last year so he could be with his pregnant wife?

What a d-bag!

esteef

[Guest micah]

I bet you are another Crosby lover, and let me tell you as a Captain of a team he lost all respect from me by the insinuations in all of his comments regarding this whole thing.

Yeah, not so much. A for effort though. I listed 4 captains who I consider tough, no need to beat-up the strawman. I know it's the easy way out, but still.

He didn't PLAY either, so why are you calling Lids and Dats d-bags?

I'm not a fan of the Penguins or of Sydney Crosby. I don't feel it necesarry to call out players on opposing teams for every one of their actions that I disapprove of. I am harder on people that I like....isn't that how it' ssupposed to be? If I drive through Milwaukee and see some bum dealing drugs, I won't likely comment on it - I don't have to comment on every person who's behavior I disapprove of. If I saw my son dealing drugs, you better bet I would have some pretty strong oppinions about it. The actions of sydney Crosby have nothing to do with the actions (or inactions) of Nick or Pavel - THAT's why I didn't bring him up.

You say you speak at Galas? Why don't you watch and see how Lidstrom handles this whole thing and see how he represents himself and his teammates.

Occasionally. Believe me, it isn't something anyone wants to do....but then you consider how lucky you are, how rare the opportunity is to give something back, how many people would love to be standing in your place and you suck it up, smile, and shake some hands.

[Guest micah]

Micah,

You extoll Luongo as an example. Were you aware Luongo skipped the All Star Game last year so he could be with his pregnant wife?

I was right where I've always been, or at least tried to be. As Gayle Sayers lived by: God is first, friends and family are seccond, I am third. It is a selfless thing, not a selfish thing, to be with your wife when she is giving birth to your child and in the days that follow. that's more important than any hockey game.

[egroen 384]

I'm not a fan of the Penguins or of Sydney Crosby. I don't feel it necesarry to call out players on opposing teams for every one of their actions that I disapprove of. I am harder on people that I like....isn't that how it' ssupposed to be? If I drive through Milwaukee and see some bum dealing drugs, I won't likely comment on it - I don't have to comment on every person who's behavior I disapprove of. If I saw my son dealing drugs, you better bet I would have some pretty strong oppinions about it. The actions of sydney Crosby have nothing to do with the actions (or inactions) of Nick or Pavel - THAT's why I didn't bring him up.

You use this one perceived (by you) slight from Pavel and Nick to question their toughness, call them "d-bags" and "ingrates", despite careers to the contrary, so in a similar light, it is not unfair to assume Crosby posters are hanging from your walls as we speak.

Occasionally. Believe me, it isn't something anyone wants to do....but then you consider how lucky you are, how rare the opportunity is to give something back, how many people would love to be standing in your place and you suck it up, smile, and shake some hands.

I'm just so thankful you took the time to share this with all of us.

I was right where I've always been, or at least tried to be. As Gayle Sayers lived by: God is first, friends and family are seccond, I am third. It is a selfless thing, not a selfish thing, to be with your wife when she is giving birth to your child and in the days that follow. that's more important than any hockey game.

Kudos for being willing to pull anything and everything currently available to you out of your own ass at a moment's notice to dig yourself out of your hole, but you are really not doing yourself any favors.

If "friends" (in this case team) is second, *I* am third... where is Bettman? Is he "God"? Because Lidstrom and Datsyuk need to put Bettman ahead of their team and themselves?

Edited January 26, 2009 by egroen

[DMAC 25 18]

Excellent comments by Holland. I hope the Wings refuse to start the 2009-10 season in Europe because of this.

he is really smart with his words lol but the only problem with them not starting in europe is that it could cause more problems in the future but i could be wrong too

[55fan 5,133]

I was right where I've always been, or at least tried to be. As Gayle Sayers lived by: God is first, friends and family are seccond, I am third. It is a selfless thing, not a selfish thing, to be with your wife when she is giving birth to your child and in the days that follow. that's more important than any hockey game.

Just a slight correction: His wife was not giving birth at that time. She was on bedrest due to a difficult pregnancy, and was staying in Florida with her parents. He just went for a visit. I supported his decision then and I still say he made the right one.

Oh, and Micah, I'm miffed that you didn't come for breakfast this morning. Fargo has an airport. You could have just gotten on a plane and been here. Surely you are aware that I would be eating breakfast. If anyone on my friends list had called me and asked to come, I'd have gladly let them watch me eat. You didn't. Therefore you are not tough and are a douchebag. What? You didn't know about the invitation to attend until now? You didn't realize that just because other people were eating that you would be expected to come and watch them eat? Now that it's too late to catch that flight? No one told you? Hmm. Maybe I've been too harsh on you. Maybe I should reconsider telling everyone how you are not supportive of LGW.

[lets go pavel 2]

This year we saw Roberto Luongo just off an injurry play in the ASG. He always struck me as a guy who just flat loves the game and is thankful fo rthe opportunity to play it. I like that about Roberto (doesn't mean I like everything about Roberto, but still).

As I mentioned earlier, Gordie Howe played in it when he was 51 years old. Do you suppose Gordie didn't have any tendenitus going on anywhere in his body?

Luongo was, in your own words, "just off an injury" ... he wasn't hurt anymore! Datsyuk had to come out of the last game early because he was hurt. Lidstrom has a nagging injury that he could play through when the games mattered (toughness, perhaps?) but that could use the rest. Neither of us have any idea if Gordie had tendinitis, but even if he did, the fact that he decided to play doesn't make Lidstrom a douchbag.

[Guest micah]

You use this one perceived (by you) slight from Pavel and Nick to question their toughness, call them "d-bags" and "ingrates", despite careers to the contrary, so in a similar light, it is not unfair to assume Crosby posters are hanging from your walls as we speak.

I'm an adult. I don't have posters on my walls.

It was wrong of me to call them D-Bags, and I'd like to take this opportunity to appologise to them and to all for that. They may in fact be fine men - to be honest I have no way of knowing if they are good people or not. I do get sick of seeing people who have been given much act as if they are owed much. that's how I percieved this situation at first, as if Nick and Pavel thought they were bigger than the ASG, that somehow they were too valuable to play in it. Maybe that's not the case, maybe they really were absolutely too injurred to play in this game, and it had nothing to do with the fact that it was merely an exhibition game. I do believe that Pavel and Nick owe the league a little something in return, and I hope that they give a weekend of their time to promote it outside of their normal duties - such is the duty that comes with being named an All Star.

It was wrong of me to assume that their decisions were anything less than honorable. Perhaps they are very greatful to the league and the fans that give them their lives of luxery. I hope they are.

I don't think that either player has shown themselves to be remarkably tough. I mentioned some tough players earlier. Niether Lids or Pavel come to my mind when one says "tough hockey player". If you disagree, that's fine with me.

I'm just so thankful you took the time to share this with all of us.

I'm sorry if I came accross as prideful. I have been given much, and not because I have earned it. For whatever reason, I have a skill that came easier to me than it does to most and I've been able to exploit for great gain. It wasn't earned, it just kind of came naturally. Right place at the right time, you know?

Kudos for being willing to pull anything and everything currently available to you out of your own ass at a moment's notice to dig yourself out of your hole, but you are really not doing yourself any favors.

Do you disagree that family trumps career?

If "friends" (in this case team) is second, *I* am third... where is Bettman? Is he "God"? Because Lidstrom and Datsyuk need to put Bettman ahead of their team and themselves?

Bettman is who he is, Commisioner of the hockey leage that Nick and Pavel play for.

I mentioned that specifically because you asked about Roberto Luongo, and I thought it fit.

Last year, Roberto skipped because he had a more important commitment - his family. This year, he had a nagging injurry that he had just healed from. It is clear to me that to Roberto, Family > nagging injury and/or risk of pain or future injury. I think that's good, and I think he should be applauded for it.

[Guest micah]

Just a slight correction: His wife was not giving birth at that time. She was on bedrest due to a difficult pregnancy, and was staying in Florida with her parents. He just went for a visit. I supported his decision then and I still say he made the right one.

Oh, and Micah, I'm miffed that you didn't come for breakfast this morning. Fargo has an airport. You could have just gotten on a plane and been here. Surely you are aware that I would be eating breakfast. If anyone on my friends list had called me and asked to come, I'd have gladly let them watch me eat. You didn't. Therefore you are not tough and are a douchebag. What? You didn't know about the invitation to attend until now? You didn't realize that just because other people were eating that you would be expected to come and watch them eat? Now that it's too late to catch that flight? No one told you? Hmm. Maybe I've been too harsh on you. Maybe I should reconsider telling everyone how you are not supportive of LGW.

To be fair - I wasn't appointed by the people who give me money to attend your breakfast, and I didn't use the excuse that my elbow was too sore to eat breakfast with you, despite the fact that I ate breakfast with it a few days ago and will again in a few days.

My bad on the bedrest part. My wife was on bedrest prior to the birth of our 3rd. Bedrest sucks. Good on Luongo for making himself available to his spouse durring that time.

[55fan 5,133]

Micah, since you retracted your "douchebag statement", I also retract my last paragraph. It was intended to show that people are coming down on and calling out Lids and Dats for not attending something they had no idea they were expected to attend, and my opinion that this is stupid. It was pointed at you because you called them douchebags.

I'm glad we can at least agree that they are not douchebags, even if we disagree on whether or not they should have been there.

[Guest micah]

Luongo was, in your own words, "just off an injury" ... he wasn't hurt anymore! Datsyuk had to come out of the last game early because he was hurt. Lidstrom has a nagging injury that he could play through when the games mattered (toughness, perhaps?) but that could use the rest. Neither of us have any idea if Gordie had tendinitis, but even if he did, the fact that he decided to play doesn't make Lidstrom a douchbag.

Lidstrom wasn't too injured to play in any games except the ASG. I don't appreciate that. Datsyuk I can more easily understand, especially if he had every intention of playing before he hurt his hip.

[DMAC 25 18]

Lidstrom wasn't too injured to play in any games except the ASG. I don't appreciate that. Datsyuk I can more easily understand, especially if he had every intention of playing before he hurt his hip.

so are u saying u would rather take the risk and let our captain get injured?? whats your point, let him get the rest he needs and like holland said hes done everything the league has asked him to do before, so i think he should be able to play it when he wants

[rage 24]

.

Edited January 26, 2009 by rage

[Ratbastrd 90]

Oh please Nick has been in the league more YEARS than games he's missed for crying out loud and he's a Defenseman.

to question his toughness is a slap in the face and for that you deserve one too. He has been the most durable player the wings have had in recent years and you are calling him out....... obviously your not a REAL wings fan

speaking of playing through pain.... what about Cry Baby Crosby??? the supposed "FACE OF THE NHL" he didnt play either.....

No but he had the class to show up and represent his team and the league that generates the revenues that pay his paychecks.

That is the part of this that few of you seem to get. This is a job people! There are certain things you have to do as an employee that you may not like, but that doesn't mean you just blow it off.

Anyhow, enough of this, it is clear that this point has become a dead horse.