Z down. Who is next for extension?

[Swede40 0]

I think for Hossa its gonna come down to this:

Stay in Detroit...take less money..play on awinner the rest of your career.

or

Go somewhere else...most likely a middle of the road or crappy team...get paid big bucks...hope you make the playoffs.

I mean how many other Stanley Cup contenders can afford to pay him 7-8 mil a season??

[russianswede919293 95]

...So now we're going to judge our cap situation against most teams who have not been successful for longer than 3 years? We aren't talking about next year - we're talking about any number of years that are eaten up by having 5 guys at 6M+. Its a terrible way to plan for the future by banking on the present. Theres a reason NONE of this teams have had the success that the Wings have had over the past 15 years, or even since the salary cap days, and theres no indication that these teams can continue their success at the rate their at. Almost ALL the teams you listed DO have problems because of the big money spent on a limited number of players. Boston is going to have a hard time re-signing their young guys. The Ducks have no room for secondary scoring, and its hurt them. The Pens are already screwed. The Flyers have to figure out how to trade someone before they get Briere back on the roster because theres no space for them. The Rags can't wait to get rid of half of their bloated contracts, and are the worse for it.

These situations only work in the SHORT TERM. Soon enough, they come back to bite you in the ass.

[russianswede919293 95]

Holland said in the presser that they can really only afford one of Hossa and Franzen. So to all hoping for all three, nope...

That being said its a hard choice to make, and depends on numbers...

Franzen for 4 or Hossa for 7.5 I take Franzen

Franzen for 4.5 Hossa for 6, I take Hossa.

It will be interesting, and I'll be upset about either one of these players leaving.

[Datsyerberger 279]

...So now we're going to judge our cap situation against most teams who have not been successful for longer than 3 years? We aren't talking about next year - we're talking about any number of years that are eaten up by having 5 guys at 6M+. Its a terrible way to plan for the future by banking on the present. Theres a reason NONE of this teams have had the success that the Wings have had over the past 15 years, or even since the salary cap days, and theres no indication that these teams can continue their success at the rate their at. Almost ALL the teams you listed DO have problems because of the big money spent on a limited number of players. Boston is going to have a hard time re-signing their young guys. The Ducks have no room for secondary scoring, and its hurt them. The Pens are already screwed. The Flyers have to figure out how to trade someone before they get Briere back on the roster because theres no space for them. The Rags can't wait to get rid of half of their bloated contracts, and are the worse for it.

These situations only work in the SHORT TERM. Soon enough, they come back to bite you in the ass.

To be fair, the last 3 years are the only ones in which a discussion like this is even applicable. The Wings success from the mid 90s to early 2000s had nothing to do with properly managing a salary cap.

As for your statement about almost all of the teams having problems.. yea, that's life. Every team is dealing with problems. Except maybe San Jose, which has probably the most comparable salaries payscale and value-wise to the Wings out of all the teams in the league.

It's much more relevant to point out that, since the institution of the cap, the "good" teams on that list have had (for the most part) increasing levels of success, and the teams on the "bad" list have been getting progressively worse. Let's not be so spoiled as Wings fans as not to observe that no matter which of our up and coming FAs we sign, we're still in shape to be one of the top teams in the league.

I'm perfectly prepared to eat up 5 guys at an average of 6-7 million because that just happens to be the average for successful teams since the institution of the salary cap. You don't build around a bunch of 2nd/3rd tier players and then toss a couple of stars in.. you build around a core of solid 1st tier players.

[Vladifan 680]

At this point I think you have to look at trading Flip as a viable option solely because it gives Mr. Holland a ton more options and money to spread around. Even if that means keeping Hossa OR Franzen and Hudler. The Wings don't need a 3 million dollar defensive forward right now or in the near future really, with Helm and Abdelkader waiting in GRap.

Food for thought: We all know Hank could have easily gotten 7 mil if he played hard ball with Mr. Holland, there is just no question about that, and he would have been worth it even at that. But do you think Mr. Holland sat Hank down and said something along the lines of "Hank, we all know how much you are worth to this organization, but if you are willing to take 6 mil a year it sends a message to Hossa and in turn both of us can make a serious pitch to him staying here long-term at a contract similar to yours."

This is exactly what I'm hoping DID happen. And I agree with those who feel that's why Zets signed the way he did.

And DATSYERBURGER....Thank you for all the stellar research. I'm printing the last one out too.

[Datsyerberger 279]

This is exactly what I'm hoping DID happen. And I agree with those who feel that's why Zets signed the way he did.

And DATSYERBURGER....Thank you for all the stellar research. I'm printing the last one out too.

Hah! Little do you know that all I'm doing is opening up team windows and looking at the contracts in EHM (I have an accurate 08-09 database) as I sim through a season and wait for the RAID array on an Oracle-running Linux box to synchronize.

Thanks, though! I'm just trying to make the realistic options easily visible to other passionate Wings fans who don't have the same time liberties as me.

[dallas27 7]

My dream scenario, I'm not counting on it, so don't flip out on me internet style. Either Hudler or Sammy will sign for 1.5, take whoever will. The more I look at that 6 by Ralfaski's name the more I hate it. ZDH is reunited. Leino and Hudler = Datysuk in terms of dishing the puck to the Hoss. Lebda is a floater.

Offense:

Zetterberg (6) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Hudler (1.5) - Leino (.9) - Hossa (6)

Cleary (2.8) - Helm (.6) - Abdelkader (.74)

Meech (.483) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Stuart (3.75)

Ralfaski (6) - Kronwall (3)

Ericcson (.9) - Lilja (1.25)

Lebda (.650)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.717)

TOTAL : 55.573 (1.4ish million UNDER this year's cap for all the "the cap is going to go down" people)

*EDIT* QUESTION: I made my mock Wings jersey for Hossa before he signed, when everyone (except Eva) thought it was IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Do I keep it on him or do I make a mock long-term contract and put that as my avatar?

Edited January 28, 2009 by dallas27

[thedatsyukian 7]

I don't see hudler making 1.5 or hossa only making 6. Although that would be a stellar lineup.

[Vladifan 680]

Hah! Little do you know that all I'm doing is opening up team windows and looking at the contracts in EHM (I have an accurate 08-09 database) as I sim through a season and wait for the RAID array on an Oracle-running Linux box to synchronize.

Thanks, though! I'm just trying to make the realistic options easily visible to other passionate Wings fans who don't have the same time liberties as me.

Yeeeeeahhh....

."...contracts in EHM..."; "...RAID array..."; ..."Oracle-running Linux box..."...........

You lost me right after "opening up team windows".

I'm just going to have to take your word for Whatever it is you're doing. If it ain't about Donkey Kong, copy/paste or add/delete, I'll just nod politely and knowingly.

[Echolalia 2,961]

My dream scenario, I'm not counting on it, so don't flip out on me internet style. Either Hudler or Sammy will sign for 1.5, take whoever will. The more I look at that 6 by Ralfaski's name the more I hate it. ZDH is reunited. Leino and Hudler = Datysuk in terms of dishing the puck to the Hoss. Lebda is a floater.

Offense:

Zetterberg (6) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Hudler (1.5) - Leino (.9) - Hossa (6)

Cleary (2.8) - Helm (.6) - Abdelkader (.74)

Meech (.483) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Stuart (3.75)

Ralfaski (6) - Kronwall (3)

Ericcson (.9) - Lilja (1.25)

Lebda (.650)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.717)

TOTAL : 55.573 (1.4ish million UNDER this year's cap for all the "the cap is going to go down" people)

*EDIT* QUESTION: I made my mock Wings jersey for Hossa before he signed, when everyone (except Eva) thought it was IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Do I keep it on him or do I make a mock long-term contract and put that as my avatar?

As awesome as this is theoretically, I would be scared s***less to bring up a bunch of rookies (ie unproven players at the nhl level) to make up 1/3 of our forward lineup, plus Ericcson on the back. There's just WAY too much uncertainty there. If injuries were to strike any of the forwards, the Wings would be in a tough situation as well.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

In my opinion, id rather have Hossa than Rafalski. Deal Rafalski for next to nothing just to dump his salary. Keep Hossa, Franzen, Huddles.

Offense:

Zetterberg (6) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Franzen (4) - Filppula (3) - Hossa (6)

Cleary (2.8) - Hudler (1.5) - Leino (.9)

Helm (.6) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Abdelkader (.74)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Ericcson (.9)

Stuart (3.75) - Kronwall (3)

Lebda (.650) - Lilja (1.25)

Meech (.483)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.717)

TOTAL : 56.573

[lets go pavel 2]

In my opinion, id rather have Hossa than Rafalski. Deal Rafalski for next to nothing just to dump his salary. Keep Hossa, Franzen, Huddles.

Rafalski has a no-trade clause.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Rafalski has a no-trade clause.

well then....

[bellarina 1]

Holland said in the presser that they can really only afford one of Hossa and Franzen. So to all hoping for all three, nope...

That being said its a hard choice to make, and depends on numbers...

Franzen for 4 or Hossa for 7.5 I take Franzen

Franzen for 4.5 Hossa for 6, I take Hossa.

It will be interesting, and I'll be upset about either one of these players leaving.

Hold on a second, Holland said that they can only really afford 1, (at this moment) What if Flip and Cleary were traded?

[egroen 384]

Hold on a second, Holland said that they can only really afford 1, (at this moment) What if Flip and Cleary were traded?

Cleary has a no-trade clause

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

Cleary has a no-trade clause

Even if he didn't no one would take his sorry ass.

[lets go pavel 2]

Even if he didn't no one would take his sorry ass.

Why not? What do you have against Cleary?

[egroen 384]

Why not? What do you have against Cleary?

Sometimes it is amazing to me how the Wings can win a single game at all with so many worhtless, slack-jaw yokels on the team.

[therock48880 14]

I wonder if Franzen's history of difficult negotiations will come into play here. With his emergence the past year (remember it's still only been one year that he has been an offensive force) I wonder if he'll be looking to break the bank. Kinda the opposite of what Hossa did last summer. He's already won the cup so why wouldn't he chase the big payday?

It's those nagging thoughts that make me wonder if Hossa will be targeted next by Holland.

[esteef 2,679]

Even if he didn't no one would take his sorry ass.

[lets go pavel 2]

Outstanding!

[Red Crazy 201]

I wonder if Franzen's history of difficult negotiations will come into play here. With his emergence the past year (remember it's still only been one year that he has been an offensive force) I wonder if he'll be looking to break the bank. Kinda the opposite of what Hossa did last summer. He's already won the cup so why wouldn't he chase the big payday?

It's those nagging thoughts that make me wonder if Hossa will be targeted next by Holland.

Just what I was thinking. After Hanks payday do you not think that Mule will have $ signs in his eyes? He could get up to 6m on the open market if he finishes this year off strong and has another great playoff run. At the point he is at in his career I say that he goes for all he can get, after all he does have a cup. Hossa, I think should be Hollands next target. Hossa wants to be on a cup contender but does not want all the pressure of being the only star on the team. I don't think that it is out of the way to see him sign long term for 6.5m to play with Detroit.

[norrisnick 1]

I wonder if Franzen's history of difficult negotiations will come into play here. With his emergence the past year (remember it's still only been one year that he has been an offensive force) I wonder if he'll be looking to break the bank. Kinda the opposite of what Hossa did last summer. He's already won the cup so why wouldn't he chase the big payday?

It's those nagging thoughts that make me wonder if Hossa will be targeted next by Holland.

History of difficult negotiations? Kenny tried to pin him to a long term miniscule salary contract. He made what? $600K/yr the first couple seasons? You can't blame him for not wanting to lock in that low if there was any hope of him improving his standing on the team. And lo! He did. And even then his "difficult negotiations" only led to a 2 year deal that pays him $900K on average.

There is a big difference between not wanting to be bent over the barrel and bending the team over the barrel. Franzen was far closer to the former than the latter. And I suspect he still is.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Well done esteef, take that haters!

[Icesurfer 75]

IMHO Wings are NOT going to sign anyone else until they know what next year's salary cap will be. Whether it goes up, down or stay the same will determined who they decide to sign. If it goes down signing Hossa will be nearly impossilbe without trading away some other big contracts. If it goes up by at least $1 million signing Hossa is possible if he accepts a contract similar to Z's.

If the salary cap stays the same for next year the Wings have 14.958 million to replace the 8 expiring contracts. (Z, Hossa, Franzen, Sammy, Hudler, Chelios, Kopecky, & Conklin)

This is one way the Wings can retain Hossa without trading away other big contracts. The Wings will not be able to sign Franzen and Hudler (unless Hudler plays for "Sammy's salary":

6.08 - Z

6.0 – Hossa

0.6 - Helm

0.875 - Leino (RFA, not signed yet)

1.2 - Sammy (if he comes back for same salary)

0.716 – Howard or other backup

0.525 – Kopecky (if signs for same amount)

______

15.996 mil = TOTAL (salary cap would have to increase by about $1 mil)

Can’t afford 8 defencemen (If Ericsson will be with Wings Lilja will have to be traded, Chelios retires. Ericsson is .30 less than Lilja) Only Meech on the bench.

LET ME REITERATE THAT THESE ARE NOT SALARIES! These are cap numbers and they are NOT the same thing!

If you looked at Z's contract you will quickly realize that Hossa does not have to play for $6 million per year TO HAVE A CAP HIT OF $6 MILLION PER YEAR. These are entirely 2 different figures. Hossa's contract can go until he is 40, 41, 42, whatever with the last few years at $1 million per year IN ORDER to bring down the cap hit to $6 million.

FOR EXAMPLE: You can pay Hossa $8 million for 8 years and then $2 million for 4 years. A 12 year contract worth $72 million for a CAP HIT OF ONLY $6 MILLION PER YEAR. Hossa would get 8 million until he is 38 years old and 2 million until he is 42. You can even cut his salary down to 1 million the last 2 years for a cap hit of 5.8333 million per year. In 8-10 years a cap hit of 5.8333 million may just be peanuts!!!!!

Hossa is definitely LESS injury prone than Z. AND Hossa can retire at age 38 and there would be no more payment and no more cap hit. So Hossa still gets his $8 million and everyone is happy.

This is perfectly legal and a very creative way to manage the cap!!!!!!!!

Edited January 29, 2009 by Icesurfer