Osgood has worst save percentage in the league

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Perhaps this is because the backup goalie is better than the starting goalie so the players will play at a higher level for a higher level goalie. The players would know better than the fans.

So what you're telling me is that our team full of professional hockey players decides that playing in front of Ozzie is just crap and so they throw the entire game away over it?

Yeah, makes sense.

I can promise you that nobody goes back in that locker room and starts bashing Osgood the way the "fans" do on this forum. In fact, I doubt they even say anything to him. To assume that they just have a massive confidence drop-out when Osgood is in net a horrible excuse for our team to play the way they are. If anything, that should push them harder to be BETTER.

[Mike 0]

LOL. That's not even funny.

Look, I'm about as far from being a Hasek fan as anyone on the face of the planet. That's a well established fact.

But even I admit that the Wings played far better in front of Manny Legace in 2002 than they did in front of Hasek.

They played far better in front of Legace than they did in front of Osgood in years prior.

Are you suggesting that Manny Legace is a better goaltender than not only Chris Osgood, but Dominik Hasek, as well? And that the Wings played better in front of him because they "knew it" better than the fans?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The Wings played so bad in front of Hasek in 2002 that they won a Presidents Trophy and the Stanley Cup in decisive fashion. Had Manny not chocked in the playoffs, he would have been the starting goaltender and Ozzie would be on the bench as the backup. You might want to stop making these asinine leaps in logic because I said no such thing. And I said that the players would know a better goaltender than the fans because they actually play hockey.

[Mike 0]

So what you're telling me is that our team full of professional hockey players decides that playing in front of Ozzie is just crap and so they throw the entire game away over it?

Yeah, makes sense.

I can promise you that nobody goes back in that locker room and starts bashing Osgood the way the "fans" do on this forum. In fact, I doubt they even say anything to him. To assume that they just have a massive confidence drop-out when Osgood is in net a horrible excuse for our team to play the way they are. If anything, that should push them harder to be BETTER.

I'm saying the team would play better in front of a goalie that they know can give them a better chance to win. I never said that they throw the game away because Ozie is in net. That is pretty stupid to think. It is only human nature to play better if you know that you have a better chance at winning.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I'm saying the team would play better in front of a goalie that they know can give them a better chance to win. I never said that they throw the game away because Ozie is in net. That is pretty stupid to think. It is only human nature to play better if you know that you have a better chance at winning.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

Ozzie is an average goalie - and the players know that. But he's well-loved by his teammates and this entire organization. Detroit is his home. These guys have formed off-ice personal relationships with him.

And I'm certain they remember his playoff performance last season - which brought him to a Cup in the first place. Babcock and the Red Wings franchise don't keep starting Osgood out of sympathy. They start him because they believe in him. They know he hits bumps in the road but they also know he's capable of turning his game around.

I don't believe, for one second, that any of the players lose confidence because Osgood is in net.. or that they play better with Conklin just because they feel they have a better chance of winning.

[uk_redwing 495]

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

That line made me laugh...

[betterREDthandead 58]

I can promise you that nobody goes back in that locker room and starts bashing Osgood the way the "fans" do on this forum. In fact, I doubt they even say anything to him. To assume that they just have a massive confidence drop-out when Osgood is in net a horrible excuse for our team to play the way they are. If anything, that should push them harder to be BETTER.

I'll take that a step further. Osgood played his first game as a Wing over 15 years ago. He's got more seniority in that locker room than anyone but the captain, Lidstrom. That kind of seniority - and the loyalty Osgood showed to this organization by coming back - commands respect among the players. I really doubt that guys who've got a decade of history with Osgood somehow lack confidence in his abilities. And I really doubt that a whole team of guys who just won a Stanley Cup with Osgood in net somehow forgot about all that.

The idea that the players slack off and play worse when Ozzie is in net is ludicrous. This means that his struggles are at least as much his fault as the team's, but they're not out there suddenly losing confidence in his abilities after all he's done for the team. Unlike many of the fans.

[Mike 0]

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

Ozzie is an average goalie - and the players know that. But he's well-loved by his teammates and this entire organization. Detroit is his home. These guys have formed off-ice personal relationships with him.

And I'm certain they remember his playoff performance last season - which brought him to a Cup in the first place. Babcock and the Red Wings franchise don't keep starting Osgood out of sympathy. They start him because they believe in him. They know he hits bumps in the road but they also know he's capable of turning his game around.

I don't believe, for one second, that any of the players lose confidence because Osgood is in net.. or that they play better with Conklin just because they feel they have a better chance of winning.

Off-ice relationships are just that, off-ice. They start Osgood because they cannot start Conks every game and there is no alternative in GR because of cap room and because neither goalie is NHL ready.

[Mike 0]

I'll take that a step further. Osgood played his first game as a Wing over 15 years ago. He's got more seniority in that locker room than anyone but the captain, Lidstrom. That kind of seniority - and the loyalty Osgood showed to this organization by coming back - commands respect among the players. I really doubt that guys who've got a decade of history with Osgood somehow lack confidence in his abilities. And I really doubt that a whole team of guys who just won a Stanley Cup with Osgood in net somehow forgot about all that.

The idea that the players slack off and play worse when Ozzie is in net is ludicrous. This means that his struggles are at least as much his fault as the team's, but they're not out there suddenly losing confidence in his abilities after all he's done for the team. Unlike many of the fans.

Last season was last season and this season is this season. We need to look how Osgood is playing now, not how he has played and right now he is struggling badly.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Off-ice relationships are just that, off-ice. They start Osgood because they cannot start Conks every game and there is no alternative in GR because of cap room and because neither goalie is NHL ready.

Leaving aside the fact that Osgood has started more games than Conklin, isn't that basically the description of every backup goaltender in the league? You make it sound like a tremendous condemnation of Ozzie's abilities

[betterREDthandead 58]

Last season was last season and this season is this season. We need to look how Osgood is playing now, not how he has played and right now he is struggling badly.

And that's a fair case for starting Conklin more than they have been. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not a reason to kick the most loyal Wing off the team and replace him with a thoroughly untested rookie, nor is it anything even resembling a good reason to suggest that he is the worst goalie in the league and that Johan Hedberg, Patrick Lalime, etc. would somehow be better long-term alternatives.

[Outsider 42]

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

Ozzie is an average goalie - and the players know that. But he's well-loved by his teammates and this entire organization. Detroit is his home. These guys have formed off-ice personal relationships with him.

And I'm certain they remember his playoff performance last season - which brought him to a Cup in the first place. Babcock and the Red Wings franchise don't keep starting Osgood out of sympathy. They start him because they believe in him. They know he hits bumps in the road but they also know he's capable of turning his game around.

I don't believe, for one second, that any of the players lose confidence because Osgood is in net.. or that they play better with Conklin just because they feel they have a better chance of winning.

I'm with you, Ms_Hockey....

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

So anyone should be able to say anything bad they like about Osgood without fear of being called on it? Nonsense.

If by "whatever they want" you're referring to people saying that he sucks and needs to be benched, then yes there's nothing wrong with criticising him in that sense.

There's a vast difference between "bashing" Osgood because he's having a crappy season, and advocating trading him and putting Ty Conklin? and Daniel Larsson in his place.

A vast difference.

By the way...

Dennis Wideman is a +29, with 29 points, and makes $3.26M per year. Duncan Keith is a +26, with 29 points, and makes $1.6M per year.

Nicklas Lidstrom is a +15, with 32 points, and makes a whopping $7.45M per year.

It's quite obvious, based upon these stats, that the Wings need to jettison Lidstrom immediately, and replace him with one of the above mentioned players, who are clearly better than he, by quite a large margin. An d at half the price, too!

Lids is clearly not pulling his weight around here any more.

I don't know about trading Ozzie, but benching him for Conklin isn't that ridiculous a suggestion. The guy is LAST in save percentage. How can that fact be treated lightly?

As for Lidstrom, his +15 is pretty damn good, if he was last in plus/minus like Ozzie is in save percentage, then we could argue about him getting traded. Bad analogy there.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Last season was last season and this season is this season. We need to look how Osgood is playing now, not how he has played and right now he is struggling badly.

The whole team is struggling. This goes far beyond just Ozzie's performance in goal.

[gcom007 1,465]

The Wings played so bad in front of Hasek in 2002 that they won a Presidents Trophy and the Stanley Cup in decisive fashion. Had Manny not chocked in the playoffs, he would have been the starting goaltender and Ozzie would be on the bench as the backup. You might want to stop making these asinine leaps in logic because I said no such thing. And I said that the players would know a better goaltender than the fans because they actually play hockey.

Except Legace did choke because he's a fan-glorified career backup that can't take the heat when it counts. He proved that two years in a row by not only not winning, but downright playing bad and contributing to the reasons why we lost. He's the only goalie we've had in over 15 years that has played as bad or worse than the team in a losing playoff run. Every other year, maybe the goalies weren't phenominal, but they weren't awful either and we just couldn't score.

Meanwhile, Osgood's won 2 Cups on his watch and has won 59 playoff games. Legace's only won 177 regular season games! 4 in the playoffs.

Even Babcock was delusional on this one. It's to this day the only major mistake I think he's bad since being here.

[Outsider 42]

Last season was last season and this season is this season. We need to look how Osgood is playing now, not how he has played and right now he is struggling badly.

Once again, since coming back from injury, Osgood has not played badly.

Watch.

The.

Games.

No wonder so many posters are leaving this site for more "mature" boards....

<sheesh>

[RedWing87 0]

Osgood's probably not worrying about the fact that he's got the worst save percentage in the league, I bet that hasn't even crossed his mind. He'll turn things around because he's not freaking out about everything like some people are doing.

I've got faith in him and I bet the team does too.

[betterREDthandead 58]

If by "whatever they want" you're referring to people saying that he sucks and needs to be benched, then yes there's nothing wrong with criticising him in that sense.

That's not even close to the extent of the OP's argument.

And yes, I would argue with anyone who decided to make the argument that "Osgood sucks." He's playing badly. There's a big difference. I would even argue that he ought to be playing just as much as he is now. We have the luxury of being able to let him work through his struggles. If we're 3rd or 2nd seed and not 1st, oh well. There's a good enough chance he'll have those struggles behind him come playoff time, and I'd much rather have two goalies playing well by that time than just one. Osgood's save percentage is not carte blanche for the Osgood-bashers to run rampant and expect no rebuttal to their criticism.

[Mike 0]

Once again, since coming back from injury, Osgood has not played badly.

Watch.

The.

Games.

No wonder so many posters are leaving this site for more "mature" boards....

<sheesh>

I watch every game and have seen time after time Ozzie letting in soft goals, playing too far back in the crease and all around not looking very confident. Why don't you become one of those posters and leave.

[Mike 0]

The whole team is struggling. This goes far beyond just Ozzie's performance in goal.

I will agree that the whole team is struggling now, especially the defense. But, when there is a defensive breakdown, you have to rely on your goaltender to come up with a save. Can the Wings rely on Osgood to make that save?

[gcom007 1,465]

Who's PROVEN to have more potential to succeed in their careers? Chris Osgood or Ty Conklin?

We all know the obvious answer to that is Osgood. If anyone picks Conklin over a guy with as many wins and 2 Cups that are all his over Conklin's career-backup status and ONE, again, 1, playoff game, and 5 minutes at that, you're absolutely crazy.

That said, say all you want about performance this season, in the playoffs, you want to have the best goalie possible playing. Osgood clearly has the potential to be the better goalie and to be outstanding when it counts at that. Again, 2 shutouts in a row to open the Stanley Cup Finals last year and likely #2 on the list in Conn Smythe voting. Osgood playing at his best is absolutely our best option.

Just like we did with Hasek last year, we need to ride him a lot down this stretch to get him ready and then see what he does in the playoffs. If he fumbles, you give Conklin a chance and pray for him to live up to half of Osgoods standard last year, which would still be great. But until then, you've gotta give Osgood every opportunity to get this thing going. I was a proponent of Osgood starting last year in many ways as I felt Dom was well into his decline, but I said the same thing as I am now. You've got to give your best guy a chance to get it together. It's simply ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

[Outsider 42]

I don't know about trading Ozzie, but benching him for Conklin isn't that ridiculous a suggestion. The guy is LAST in save percentage. How can that fact be treated lightly?

It is when you realize that Osgood has not been playing badly since his return from injury, and that during this little "slump" the Wings are currently mired in, Conklin has played NO BETTER than Osgood.

It is when you realize that you've got two months to get your STARTER on track, (because let's face it, Osgood IS the Wings Starter), or face going into the Play Offs to defend the Stanley Cup with a guy who has SIX MINUTES of Play Off experience, with a GAA of 10.71, and a SVP of .667.

Going into the Post Season with Legace, (another career back up), was a huge mistake in 2005. It is no less a mistake this year, with Conklin.

As the Stars have done with Turco, sooner or later, the Wings are going to have to get Oz ready for the Post Season.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

That's not even close to the extent of the OP's argument.

And yes, I would argue with anyone who decided to make the argument that "Osgood sucks." He's playing badly. There's a big difference. I would even argue that he ought to be playing just as much as he is now. We have the luxury of being able to let him work through his struggles. If we're 3rd or 2nd seed and not 1st, oh well. There's a good enough chance he'll have those struggles behind him come playoff time, and I'd much rather have two goalies playing well by that time than just one. Osgood's save percentage is not carte blanche for the Osgood-bashers to run rampant and expect no rebuttal to their criticism.

If being last in save percentage doesn't mean that he sucks, then no one sucks. I don't see how else to judge your position.

If Ozzie was middle of the pack, that's different. But the guy is dead last. There's no one who has a worse save percentage than him. I still say he deserves the bashing.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I will agree that the whole team is struggling now, especially the defense. But, when there is a defensive breakdown, you have to rely on your goaltender to come up with a save. Can the Wings rely on Osgood to make that save?

I'm quite sure the Wings believe they can. I have every confidence in Ozzie in crunch time.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

It is when you realize that Osgood has not been playing badly since his return from injury, and that during this little "slump" the Wings are currently mired in, Conklin has played NO BETTER than Osgood.

It is when you realize that you've got two months to get your STARTER on track, (because let's face it, Osgood IS the Wings Starter), or face going into the Play Offs to defend the Stanley Cup with a guy who has SIX MINUTES of Play Off experience, with a GAA of 10.71, and a SVP of .667.

Going into the Post Season with Legace, (another career back up), was a huge mistake in 2005. It is no less a mistake this year, with Conklin.

As the Stars have done with Turco, sooner or later, the Wings are going to have to get Oz ready for the Post Season.

Conklin is inexperienced, but Ozzie has shown little sign of improvement this year. Conklin seems to have more confidence than Ozzie, and doesn't have as much pressure on him.

It'd be nice if one of these guys took the job outright, but right now I can see why people are asking for a change. Who knows, maybe it'll light a fire under Ozzie to be benched.

[therock48880 14]

You should stop watching the stat lines on NHL.com, and start watching the Games.

I've watched every game and Ozzie lets in a soft goal at least once per game, it seems. I fail to see how that's NOT his fault. Granted, the defensive lapses lead to some goals that aren't his fault, but he's got to stop letting in ones that he should stop.

Finally, if we think back, an alarming trend has taken place with Osgood. He started last year on fire and his save percentage was hovering around .930 at the mid season point. He finished the year with a .914. In other words, his save percentage dropped quite a bit in the second half of the season, which resulted in his season percentage to drop. I don't have the time, nor the energy to figure out his save percentage in the second half of the year but it must have been around .900. This year it's at .880. So, in the past full regular season of hockey, his save percentage is under .900. It's time people quit making excuses and realize that right now, his play is a very serious threat to the team's chances of repeating.