Osgood has worst save percentage in the league

[lets go pavel 2]

As a Club...

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Why are people defending Ozzie?

If he has the lowest save percentage in the league, he deserves to be bashed. A better goalie would have a higher save percentage even with the defensive breakdowns.

In my opinion, save percentage is a more telling stat than GAA.

People are just unhappy because this stat is a direct sign of how much their boy has sucked this year. Get over the bashing folks. It's warranted.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Here again we see the soft-minded notion that criticism must be irrational hating. Several hockey commentators have said that while the Wings are a great team, their achilles heel is in net. I bet these likely non-fans are just haters too. Last season Oz and Dom were around tops in the league no? Most attributed that to the Wings' stellar defense. Ozzie, however showed he was playing well to the very top! This year is different. He (and Conklin too) have given up way too many softies. I fear that the Wings will stick with Ozzie cuz he went all the way last year. My gut tells me Conklin would be the more solid tender. Look what he did for Pittsburgh late last reg. season... I hope that unless Ozzie turns it around, the Wings make a move for a goalie before the deadline.

No, here we see the notion that criticism that's way the hell off base is irrational. It's one thing to say that Ozzie hasn't played at all well this year. Clearly he has not. It's another to draw the conclusion that therefore every single goalie in the league is better. Just because he's criticizing Osgood doesn't make him automatically right. You can't honestly think, for example, that it would be a good idea to trade Osgood straight up for Lalime or Hedberg, do you? That's what the OP is claiming.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Why are people defending Ozzie?

If he has the lowest save percentage in the league, he deserves to be bashed.

So anyone should be able to say anything bad they like about Osgood without fear of being called on it? Nonsense.

[lets go pavel 2]

Why are people defending Ozzie?

If he has the lowest save percentage in the league, he deserves to be bashed. A better goalie would have a higher save percentage even with the defensive breakdowns.

In my opinion, save percentage is a more telling stat than GAA.

People are just unhappy because this stat is a direct sign of how much their boy has sucked this year. Get over the bashing folks. It's warranted.

I agree with most of what you are saying about Ozzie, he has played badly and deserves criticism. I don't hear anyone on here saying he doesn't. But I take issue with singling out one person or area and saying that this is the reason for our woes. Right now we have threads blaming Ozzie, defense, the 4th line, and Brad McCrimmon, and probably a few others I've missed. Probably all of these things are contributing to our poor play of late, but none of them are solely responsible. The OP made the claim that our defense has been one of the best in the league and Ozzie is the problem, and this is what people are disagreeing with.

Edited February 1, 2009 by lets go pavel

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

As much as I think the defense is failing this year, defense has absolutely nothing do to with save %. Ozzie can let in 2 out of 10 shots with a great defense, or 20 out of 100 shots with a bad defense. Either way, the save % is still the same.

[lets go pavel 2]

As much as I think the defense is failing this year, defense has absolutely nothing do to with save %. Ozzie can let in 2 out of 10 shots with a great defense, or 20 out of 100 shots with a bad defense. Either way, the save % is still the same.

Defense has much to do with the quality of shots allowed. The quality of shots allowed has much to do with how many shots go in. How many shots go in has much to do with save %.

Defense has much to do with save %.

[Mike 0]

Riding on players that have done good for the Wings in the past has almost always turned out bad, i.e. Osgood, Draper, Maltby, Hasek. The past is nice, but the present is what counts. Just because Osgood has won Stanley Cups before does not mean he is going to win them again. If the Wings are to continue to be a great team, they need to stop living in the past with old players that are past their prime. It sucks to let players go that have done so well for you before, but it has to be done.

[lets go pavel 2]

Riding on players that have done good for the Wings in the past has almost always turned out bad, i.e. Osgood, Draper, Maltby, Hasek. The past is nice, but the present is what counts. Just because Osgood has won Stanley Cups before does not mean he is going to win them again. If the Wings are to continue to be a great team, they need to stop living in the past with old players that are past their prime. It sucks to let players go that have done so well for you before, but it has to be done.

We're not talking about a player whose glory days were 3-4 years ago, Ozzie won the cup for us LAST YEAR. I'd say it's a little soon to declare him over the hill ...

[Outsider 42]

Why are people defending Ozzie?

If he has the lowest save percentage in the league, he deserves to be bashed. A better goalie would have a higher save percentage even with the defensive breakdowns.

In my opinion, save percentage is a more telling stat than GAA.

People are just unhappy because this stat is a direct sign of how much their boy has sucked this year. Get over the bashing folks. It's warranted.

There's a vast difference between "bashing" Osgood because he's having a crappy season, and advocating trading him and putting Ty Conklin? and Daniel Larsson in his place.

A vast difference.

By the way...

Dennis Wideman is a +29, with 29 points, and makes $3.26M per year. Duncan Keith is a +26, with 29 points, and makes $1.6M per year.

Nicklas Lidstrom is a +15, with 32 points, and makes a whopping $7.45M per year.

It's quite obvious, based upon these stats, that the Wings need to jettison Lidstrom immediately, and replace him with one of the above mentioned players, who are clearly better than he, by quite a large margin. An d at half the price, too!

Lids is clearly not pulling his weight around here any more.

[Mike 0]

Don't forget that Osgood started to play worse as the Stanley Cup Finals went on. After that first loss, he was not the same goalie that won the 8 or so in a row.

[digitaljohn88 4]

As much as I think the defense is failing this year, defense has absolutely nothing do to with save %. Ozzie can let in 2 out of 10 shots with a great defense, or 20 out of 100 shots with a bad defense. Either way, the save % is still the same.

Very, very untrue.

Team A allows 10 shots but keeps them to the outside, doesn't allow clear chances in the slot or cross-crease tap-ins. Maybe one or two good scoring chances.

Team B allows 10 shots, but their defense is running around and most shots taken are very good scoring chances. Open players in the slot, cross-crease passes, breakaways, etc.

What I'm trying to say is, with bad defense there will be more quality scoring chances per X amount of shots, lowering a goalie's sv%.

[Outsider 42]

As much as I think the defense is failing this year, defense has absolutely nothing do to with save %. Ozzie can let in 2 out of 10 shots with a great defense, or 20 out of 100 shots with a bad defense. Either way, the save % is still the same.

With all due respect, that's an utterly ridiculous statement. As a matter of fact, it's nearly as ridiculous as it is inaccuate.

Are you saying that a Team which allows 40 unscreened shots from the blue line is playing worse defense than a Team which gives up 15 clear cut breakaways? And that a goalie who gives up 2 goals on 40 unscreened shots from the blue line is playing better than a goalie who gives up 2 goals on 15 clear cut breakaways?

Give your head a shake.

Quality. Not quantity. Defense is intrinsically tied to Save Percentage.

[ArcticWing 0]

What another goalie thread

[Kevvie 0]

hmm...seems to me that someone needs to have the worst save percentage. The argument that it shouldn't be a Detroit tender doesn't really hold much water, imo. I can understand that nobody here wants it to be a Detroit tender, but it's not really a valid argument. There would be a revolving door for goalies in the NHL if everybody saw things this way.

I agree there is an issue, but I think this is a pointless...uhm...point.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. We win and lose as a team. Trading Oz is a band-aid. Helping Oz is a solution. The right people need to get on with that.

[Outsider 42]

Don't forget that Osgood started to play worse as the Stanley Cup Finals went on. After that first loss, he was not the same goalie that won the 8 or so in a row.

???????

Well, considering that he opened the Cup Finals with two consecutive SHUT OUTS, I'd say that the only way to go from there was down.

<sheesh>

After that "first loss" he posted a 2-1 Win, in Pittsburgh, allowing 1 goal on 23 shots, for a .957 SVP.

That 1 goal, by the way, was a Power Play goal, scored by Marian Hossa, (yeah...that guy). It was the only goal Osgood allowed, in spite of the fact that the Pens had 6 PP's that night.

Yeah. He sucked in that game after the "first loss", alright.

The Wings lost Game 5 in Triple Overtime. Osgood allowed 4 goals in nearly 6 periods of hockey that night, for a GAA of 2.18.

The Triple OT Winner? Once again....

On the Power Play.

Game 6 in Pittsburgh, he allowed 2 goals on 22 shots. One to Evgeni Malkin, one to Marian Hossa.

BOTH on the Power Play.

I don't know, but I'm starting to see a pattern here.....

Maybe it wasn't Osgood who "played worse" as the Finals wore on.

Maybe it was the fact that his Teammates spent far too much time in the box as the Finals wore on.

Saying that Osgood "played worse" as the Finals wore on is the epitome of grasping at straws.

Try another tack. You should simply stick to the "Osgood hasn't played well this year". Because your "other" theory doesn't hold water.

[Wingsallwin 0]

And yet, he hasnt been even close to the worst.

Raycroft, Lalime, Toskala, Giguere, Hedberg, Legace, Turco, Auld, Garon have all been worse. You need to watch the games, not the stats. Yeah, Ozzies been bad the past couple games, but throughout the season he's had solid games and kept us in some games, some games he gets us the save. He's just been very hot and cold, that's been his problem. Plus, he has no confidence, and then our defence has no confidence, and that's a recipe for disaster. Honestly, what are you trying to prove with this thread? We know he hasnt been great, but your mistaken if you think he's been the worst.

I understand the goalie lists you show there, they are all bad right now. But Giguere at least has better stats than Osgood and Turco is loooking to be back on his track, his last few games stats are great.

We all know the Wings are having a rough time to solve the defenses but the goalies should not give up soft goals too many times. We don't blame Osgood for unstoppable shots. Like Conklin yesterday against the Caps, except for the 3rd goal, he never gave up any soft goals. I agree our bad defenses make our goalies look bad but we cannot say Osgood is good this season and Conklin has been better doubtlessly by performances on games and stats. I don't say Osgood is the worst goalie and terrible but I don't think we can expect Osgood to bounce back to his game right now.

The thing is we really now have to decide who should be our first starting goalie for rest of the season and the playoff. I like Babcock still rotates our goalies but Conklin has to have more chances to start than now. I don't mind Conklin is a carried as a back up goalie. Any back up goalie can alternate the spot of starting goalie.

[Kp-Wings 3]

What another goalie thread

*goalie picture*

Is that available in Blu-ray, by any chance?

Edited February 1, 2009 by Kp-Wings

[Wingsallwin 0]

Defense has much to do with the quality of shots allowed. The quality of shots allowed has much to do with how many shots go in. How many shots go in has much to do with save %.

Defense has much to do with save %.

I agree with this post. We know Osgood is not as good as top goalies like Luongo so our defenses should cover a lot of part but they did not.

But the problem you did not mention is Osgood is not improving at all. We already gave him ton of chances to prove his stats so far was a joke and wanted him to bounce back but he did not. We now finally have to realize Osgood cannot carry this team to the far in the playoff with this performance. If he has good 5 games, and terrible 10 games, I don't know which is good, and it shows how inconsistent Osgood is right now.

Throughout this season so far, I remember only one game Osgood's performance was great, game aginst the Wild. Even though Osgood makes key saves, there is no excuse for any starting goalie in the league that allows more than 4 goals pretty much every game.

Next monday is game against the Blues. It does not matter we lose or win, in next few games, we finally at least need to show the progress or improvment on our problems. 30 games seem to be many games but the truth is, it is not.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I agree that defense is our biggest issue, but you can't excuse our goaltenders from their performance. They give up a soft goal every game. Of recent memory, the 3rd goal against Conklin last night, and the third goal against Osgood in Dallas. Have people forgotten that giving up soft goals is not something that is supposed to happen every game? Every once in a while, yeah, its gonna happen.

This is the thing - if your defense makes a mistake, it is the goaltenders JOB to make up for it. This year, when our defense has made a mistake, more often than not its in the net. Goalies around the league make up for their teams shoddy defense. Conklin and Osgood - on most nights - haven't been able to do that.

Also, the point that everyone seems to be missing in this goaltending vs defense debate is the fact that its a lot easier to change ONE guy than it is to change SIX. Especially when our goaltending tandem combined makes less than any of our Top 4 Dmen. But you get what you pay for, I guess.

More outlanish exaggerations. EVERY game huh? How then did Conklin get 4 shutouts?

How did we have the 1.9 GAA in the 10 games before the losing streak.

Don't make statements that are just pure exaggerations.

[Wingsallwin 0]

More outlanish exaggerations. EVERY game huh? How then did Conklin get 4 shutouts?

How did we have the 1.9 GAA in the 10 games before the losing streak.

Don't make statements that are just pure exaggerations.

Sorry for saying like that. Let me change to Osgood, then does it make sense?

[chrisdetroit 189]

There has been a lot of talk about defence this year. Sure, there is room for improvement in our defence. But the statistics show that we have out-shot our opponents in 29 of 49 games this year. That is the best record in the league (SJS is second with 24). We have the fifth best defence in terms of shots against per game. So overall, even though our defence hasn't been as good as last year, it has still been one of the best in the league.

One stat sticks out one the negative side though: Osgood's save percentage of 88.0%. Out of all 44 goalies that have played this year, Osgood has the lowest save percentage. That's right - Osgood is in last place.

To me, save percentage is the only really relevant statistic for goalies. After all, stopping shots is what they are there for. How can Detroit expect to win the cup with the worst goalie in the league? Why are people focusing on the defence when goal-tending seems to be the obvious flaw in our roster? Our number one goalie is worse than the back-up on all other all other teams!

In my mind, we need to:

1) Short-term: Dump Osgood. Make Conklin number one, and bring up Larsson as the back-up (Larsson has a much better save percentage than Howard). To those who say Larsson isn't ready I contend that we already have the worst goalie in the league - Larsson only has to be better than one goalie to be an improvement on Osgood.

2) Long-term: Make room in the cap to acquire a goalie before the next trade dead-line. Any goalie. Remember - all other goalies in the league have performed better than Osgood.

Am I making sense?

(All stats are from nhl.com)

You read the stat wrong. The stat is that the Wings are 29-9-4 when they out shot their opponents. That means that they have outshot their opponents 42 out of the 49 games. They are #1. San Jose would be #2 with 33.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Sorry for saying like that. Let me change to Osgood, then does it make sense?

It's certainly not as big an exaggeration but Osgood has had a few good games but not many.

[Guest mindfly]

TSN Crew also claim that it all comes down to the goaltending, blaming everything on osgood, and a bit on the defense

http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/#clip135495

Edited February 1, 2009 by mindfly

[Red Crazy 201]

Could it be just a Cup Hangover????? cause it sure looks like it to me. I am not saying that the season is over but we all can admit that the Wings overall have not played great hockey this year....not bad but not great. They have been coasting along up until now playing with just enough effort to win. ( look at the one goal games and who they were against) Our veterans are tired looking even our guy Lidstrom is not playing well. Lets face it they had a really short summer and this has taken its toll. I am not saying that there are bot a few players that need to suck it up but over all we look tired and I hope Babcock uses his cap freedom in the next couple of weeks to rest some of our key guys.