Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) Before this kid gets a full season to show that he's worth more than a million. I want this kid to get a three to four year deal now while we can pay him a rookie's salary, and that could help offset the Zetterberg contract, and who knows, maybe we'll be able to fit some more big names into our roster in a couple years. But seriously, I feel crazy for wanting to get this kid signed for multiple years, especially after only seeing him play for three games, but he looks so comfortable out there. He looks like Zetterberg or Datsyuk when we first signed him. He's strong on the puck, he played well defensively tonight (I'm thinking of a particular play where he rushed back from the Oiler's zone, caused a turnorver at our blueline, and turned right around with it). He just seems to be doing everything right. What a steal he could turn out to be. By the way, he played 17:35 tonight. Edited February 7, 2009 by Echolalia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 He does have a lot of potential, that is for sure. Problem is, is there room on the roster? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zenway9 1 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 He does have a lot of potential, that is for sure. Problem is, is there room on the roster? Well, you never know what will happen with Draper and Maltby...will they retire together? Will we be letting some guys go at the trade deadline? Lots of factors will come into play. I hope to see Leino in the lineup for the rest of the year though, but will not happen when Stu comes back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 He does have a lot of potential, that is for sure. Problem is, is there room on the roster? Its a give an take thing, for sure. We're looking at who we want to keep out of Sammy, Franzen, Hudler, and Hossa. Obviously they aren't all coming back. Say Holland takes Hossa and Hudler and lets Sammy and Franzen walk. Leino could be looked at at that point to fill in Sammy's void, for a 1M caphit, if that. If we could sign the kid to something like .5, .75, 1, 1.5 for an average hit of less than 1M per year, that would be remarkable, especially for that last year, when we essentially have .5 M off the cap from his salary. I don't know if this is realistic, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 I would like to have Koper gone, but with all this buddy buddy crap with keeping him to keep Hossa is concerning... Leino would be good in his spot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 Should be a fair replacement for Franzen when he walks after we re-sign Hossa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) Leino is clearly better than Kopecky, and if he continues to play the way he has, one could make an argument for letting Flip go and signing Leino as cheap as we possibly could for 3-4 years. Leino just may be Holland's ace in the hole come negotiations and trade deadlines. Edited February 7, 2009 by VM1138 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 No way he signs long-term on the cheap. Agents exist for a reason. The good thing is he's RFA. If he prices himself out we get compensation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 I would like to have Koper gone, but with all this buddy buddy crap with keeping him to keep Hossa is concerning... Leino would be good in his spot. The problem with replacing Kopecky with Leino is Leino is better than a 4th liner. Holland's money would be going a lot farther by putting that (hypothetical) .9M cap hit into a solid goalscorer/play maker, potentially capable of anywhere between 30 and 60 points a season. Leino's role on the fourth line wouldn't be to score, and he wouldn't be put with other players who are as capable as him as making offensive plays. Holland would also still have to find someone who can play on the second line, and he won't find another player who will take less than 1 M a season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 Can Leino play a net-front presence on a game to game basis? Like he did on Rafalski's goal today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 Can Leino play a net-front presence on a game to game basis? Like he did on Rafalski's goal today. Yes. He always skates to the front of the net as a screen when a point shot is coming in. He's done it frequently in the last 3 games and he's done it a few times in GR too Leino wasn't the Finnish highest-tier-league MVP by accident. I'm sure the Wings management knows this and plans on signing him ASAP. Remember- Leino is a restricted free agent at the end of the season. RFAs are less likely to bolt on a team since the Wings have the right to match any offer and once the offers get unreasonable the Wings will end up with at least a 1st rounder for him. That's essentially a free first rounder since Leino was signed as a free agent last year. Of course no one wants to lose this guy, I'm just saying that it's almost a win-win, even if the second win is a crappy one for us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) Yes. He always skates to the front of the net as a screen when a point shot is coming in. He's done it frequently in the last 3 games and he's done it a few times in GR too Leino wasn't the Finnish highest-tier-league MVP by accident. I'm sure the Wings management knows this and plans on signing him ASAP. Remember- Leino is a restricted free agent at the end of the season. RFAs are less likely to bolt on a team since the Wings have the right to match any offer and once the offers get unreasonable the Wings will end up with at least a 1st rounder for him. That's essentially a free first rounder since Leino was signed as a free agent last year. Of course no one wants to lose this guy, I'm just saying that it's almost a win-win, even if the second win is a crappy one for us. Well I hope so. If he does fulfill that role, then he should really put on another twenty pounds. If he does that, with his skill and passing ability and hockey sense, he really could be the next Holmstrom. Why is it that according to lgw.com, Leino is not a restricted free agent. It's in green. Just a tad confusing. http://www.letsgowings.com/salarychart/index.php Edited February 7, 2009 by titanium2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 No way on earth does Leino take a 3 or 4 year deal. The best the Wings can hope for is a contract identical to Hudler's. 2 years, 1.05 per year. It shouldn't be hard to work him under the cap. Leino takes Sammy's spot, Helm takes Filppula's spot (if its required to re-sign Franzen/Hossa). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 No way on earth does Leino take a 3 or 4 year deal. The best the Wings can hope for is a contract identical to Hudler's. 2 years, 1.05 per year. It shouldn't be hard to work him under the cap. Leino takes Sammy's spot, Helm takes Filppula's spot (if its required to re-sign Franzen/Hossa). These moves are so mind-numbingly obvious I'm going to be royally pissed off if they don't happen. And I really hope Kenny doesn't do anything stupid like let Babcock talk him into letting Hudler go because Leino could play a similar role. Don't take the easy road out to create cap space. Move contracts. Just because one guy signs first or the summer before doesn't mean he should stay over a guy that needs a contract now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted February 7, 2009 Well I hope so. If he does fulfill that role, then he should really put on another twenty pounds. If he does that, with his skill and passing ability and hockey sense, he really could be the next Holmstrom. Why is it that according to lgw.com, Leino is not a restricted free agent. It's in green. Just a tad confusing. http://www.letsgowings.com/salarychart/index.php I think he'd actually make a better Franzen mold than Homer mold. Leino has too much hockey sense and too good of hands to be a Homer. If keeping Hossa means letting Franzen go, then I'll take it if it means Leino will be in full time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 These moves are so mind-numbingly obvious I'm going to be royally pissed off if they don't happen. And I really hope Kenny doesn't do anything stupid like let Babcock talk him into letting Hudler go because Leino could play a similar role. Don't take the easy road out to create cap space. Move contracts. Just because one guy signs first or the summer before doesn't mean he should stay over a guy that needs a contract now. You're too near sighted on this one NN. Filppula's contract right now looks like it is too much, but in year two/three of his deal it will look just a bout right then year 4/5 he's going to look like a steal. I love Helm as much as the next guy, but he doesn't possess nearly the same amount of offense as Filppula and their defence is relatively the same with an edge to Filppula. The Leino-->Sammy switch is the no-brainer if Leino continues to work on his back-checking like it seems he has. Sign Hossa for the cheap if you can and let Franzen walk or if you can't sign Franzen and Hudler. Name for me ONE time Holland signed a player to a long term deal and traded them away during the season. The person we really should look to trade is Kronwall or Stuart. Aside from tonight's game, Kronners has looked like crap and even tonight he still gets beat wide every time. Same with Stuart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SDavis35 140 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 There's no reason he shouldnt be up next year. I see now why he wants to go back to Europe if he's not up next year. We wait for his signing, but he's an awesome player from what I've seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 You're too near sighted on this one NN. Filppula's contract right now looks like it is too much, but in year two/three of his deal it will look just a bout right then year 4/5 he's going to look like a steal. I love Helm as much as the next guy, but he doesn't possess nearly the same amount of offense as Filppula and their defence is relatively the same with an edge to Filppula. The Leino-->Sammy switch is the no-brainer if Leino continues to work on his back-checking like it seems he has. Sign Hossa for the cheap if you can and let Franzen walk or if you can't sign Franzen and Hudler. Name for me ONE time Holland signed a player to a long term deal and traded them away during the season. The person we really should look to trade is Kronwall or Stuart. Aside from tonight's game, Kronners has looked like crap and even tonight he still gets beat wide every time. Same with Stuart. Near sighted? Fil's contract will never be a steal unless the economy goes meteoric and all salaries inflate like mad. His upside is right around where Cleary is now (if Fil wraps his head around the fact that cute plays isn't his thing and he needs to get more physical, more direct with his plays, and rather than circling back cutting right to the net) and yet he's making $200K/yr more. It was a dumb deal. Kenny should have signed him for a year or two around $1.5-2M/yr. With the way the roster is stacked there's no way he could have shown enough to warrant much more than a $3M/yr deal after that. So in essence, Kenny not only didn't save anything but he gave away at least $1M in cap space this year and next year. Nik and Stu are having trainwreck seasons. I won't deny that. But they have the luxury of playing a much more important role and having the ability to have a far greater impact than Fil when they are on their game. Maybe Fil will finally figure it out and become the Zetterberg-lite many were hoping for, but as it stands he might never be more than Draper-plus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 He does have a lot of potential, that is for sure. Problem is, is there room on the roster? ...there WILL be, there WILL be! Sign him now fro 5 years 875,000 each! IN 5 years, Drapes and Malts will be since retired, Cleary won't be making as much (he'll be a UFA.) Then, if he proves he is worth it, give him his million dollar contract! ...Leino is the real Deal, he'll more thatn offset the loss of Flip and Huds... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 You're too near sighted on this one NN. Filppula's contract right now looks like it is too much, but in year two/three of his deal it will look just a bout right then year 4/5 he's going to look like a steal. I love Helm as much as the next guy, but he doesn't possess nearly the same amount of offense as Filppula and their defence is relatively the same with an edge to Filppula. The Leino-->Sammy switch is the no-brainer if Leino continues to work on his back-checking like it seems he has. Sign Hossa for the cheap if you can and let Franzen walk or if you can't sign Franzen and Hudler. Name for me ONE time Holland signed a player to a long term deal and traded them away during the season. The person we really should look to trade is Kronwall or Stuart. Aside from tonight's game, Kronners has looked like crap and even tonight he still gets beat wide every time. Same with Stuart. ...he'll be traded in the off-season, probably near draft day or around training camp, and probably for no more than a 2nd round draft pick... ...you guys do not understand, you let HUDLER walk! Franz walks and we get nothing in return, Hudler walks and we get compensation draft picks!!! With the salary he is worth, we'll get at least a 1st and a 3rd for Hudler. These guys are right near each ther in scoring, Franzen was more valuable in the last post season, and they will BOTH get AT LEAST Filppula's salary! What makes the best sense for the team? Franzen for nothing or Huds for picks? You cannot have both (all three actually) and even think about Hossa. Let alone paying LEino, Howard, Helm or Ericsson, all of which must be in Detroit next season (not sure on Helm, but Ericsson and Howard are out of options, Leino is a RFA.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 You're too near sighted on this one NN. Filppula's contract right now looks like it is too much, but in year two/three of his deal it will look just a bout right then year 4/5 he's going to look like a steal. I love Helm as much as the next guy, but he doesn't possess nearly the same amount of offense as Filppula and their defence is relatively the same with an edge to Filppula. The Leino-->Sammy switch is the no-brainer if Leino continues to work on his back-checking like it seems he has. Sign Hossa for the cheap if you can and let Franzen walk or if you can't sign Franzen and Hudler. Name for me ONE time Holland signed a player to a long term deal and traded them away during the season. The person we really should look to trade is Kronwall or Stuart. Aside from tonight's game, Kronners has looked like crap and even tonight he still gets beat wide every time. Same with Stuart. 1. You contradict yourself twice here. First you say that NN is being too near-sighted, not looking at Flip's potential in 3 years, yet then you deride the notion that Helm can replace Filppula, despite the fact that Helm is 3 years younger and has never had a regular spot, whereas Filppula has barely earned half his salary in 3 years time. Then you go on to say that the Wings should trade Stuart or Kronwall, yet say that the Wings won't trade Filppula because he signed long-term, despite the fact that Kronwall and Stuart both signed 4-5 year contracts. 2. The Wings can't afford to be far-sighted with 3(4 including Leino) forwards that need raises/new contracts who have all proved to be more useful to the Wings than Filppula has. Yeah, he may warrant that contract in 3 years, but the Wings will have sacrificed too much in that time to make it worthwhile. Not to mention, keeping Flip means little chance or re-signing our big goal scoring wingers. If you watch Flip closely, you'll note how, unless hes serving time on Datsyuk's wing, a la last season, he can't score. He gets his points, at this point, from setting up Franzen, Hudler, and Hossa - at least 1 or 2 of which will be lost at Filppula's expense, which not only weakens our offense, it weakens Filppula's game as well. 3. Name for me the last time the Wings operated in the salary cap world, were damn close to the cap ceiling as is, and had a slew of players to re-sign who warrant additional cap expenditures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 ...thus is Gary Buttman's Cap world. You lose your players evetually! ...Lose Flip for a draft pick, lose Huds for compenstaion picks, sign Hossa, Franzen & Leino... ...in the cap world, you have to do what makes most business sense. Leino and Helm can make up for the loss of Flip and Huds, and won't cost more than $1.5 million as opposed to at least $6 million in combined Flip/Huds salary... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 3. Name for me the last time the Wings operated in the salary cap world, were damn close to the cap ceiling as is, and had a slew of players to re-sign who warrant additional cap expenditures. That right there is the hard part. We're already capped out and we have guys due raises to the tune of about $5M. Ericsson and Howard join for good next season they both make more money than the players they'll replace. Even if Kenny does trade Fil, it won't be enough. There's a trio of guys that Kenny needs to take a long hard look at this summer. Draper, Maltby, and Holmstrom. Can the Wings afford to lose more important players on account of loyalty to foot soldiers well beyond their "best by" date? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 ...thus is Gary Buttman's Cap world. You lose your players evetually! ...Lose Flip for a draft pick, lose Huds for compenstaion picks, sign Hossa, Franzen & Leino... ...in the cap world, you have to do what makes most business sense. Leino and Helm can make up for the loss of Flip and Huds, and won't cost more than $1.5 million as opposed to at least $6 million in combined Flip/Huds salary... Leino and Helm can replace Filppula. They can't replace Hudler as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 Holmstrom. What's all this nonsense here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
