Hossa and Franzen to Stay?//Merged

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I haven't looked through the other pages of this thread, but the Wings can't re-sign both Hossa and Franzen if they make a combined 9.4M - otherwise, we're over the cap for next year, and the tagging rule would force us to cut/move salary otherwise.

So, essentially, if the Wings are looking at Hossa for 6 and Franzen for 3.5, they will make a trade by the deadline - they'd have to if they want them signed before the playoffs.

those players are both under contract this season already, just how does signing a player for next year affect this years cap? I do believe though I heard mentioned that Holland could only sign one before the trade deadline, so maybe that has something to do with it too. If that is the case sign one of them and come to a verbal agreement with the other. But yeah, one of either Franzen, Hudler or Fippula are gone no matter what. Probably Sammy too!

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I don't think Hossa will sign for 6M, it would be nice but I think it will need to be more between 6.5 & 7M. Unless he gives us a big

Hometown discount, lets hope.

Well, either you are not only new to this forum, but new to the Red Wings nation and fandom as well! Unless you've been under a rock in recent weeks then you should know that Hossa already said "I Will" to the notion that he'd take less to stay here. Rumor has him siginging for around the same Cap average as Zetterberg, and yes it would be a HUGE discount considering he wold make top dollar anywhere else!

so, he would sign for $6M-ish.

[Vladifan 680]

Maybe you misunderstood my post? I was saying I'd rather have Hudler than Flip because Hudler has shown a lot more in terms of potential to this team than Flip has.

I agree with you 100%. Flip looks soft, and Leino/Helm could easily take over his roll and do a better job.

If and when Flip learns to follow through and SHOOT THE DAMN PUCK, I will like him a whole lot better.

\

And as soon as Babs calls me, I'm gonna lay that on him.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I don't think Hossa will sign for 6M, it would be nice but I think it will need to be more between 6.5 & 7M. Unless he gives us a big

Hometown discount, lets hope.

He doesn't necessarily have to sign for 6M, so long as the average caphit of the entire contract is around 6M. I also expect that Hossa's average caphit will be closer to Datsyuk's 6.7 than Zetterberg's 6.2.

[Guest DetroitBoy313]

I'm very very sorry if this has been posted so don't kill me guys but I didn't see this and I haven't heard anyone talking about this.But here you go,and I know there has been a trillion Hossa/Franzen topics but this is the first time I'm reading about Hossa actually saying he would take less.

Selling Hossa on staying in Detroit

[Guest MrSandMan]

I'm not putting any stock into the Hossa signing until it's inked and stamped. According to Pens fans, Hossa mislead them. So who's to say he doesn't run to the Sharks for $5 million "for a chance to win the cup" (if he doesn't win one this year)

Can't put all your eggs in one basket in the CAP world/.

[Echolalia 2,961]

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=55675

[Guest Shoreline]

I said all along expect Hossa to go elsewhere, otherwise we'll end up with a bunch of people whining just like Pens fans. IF he stays, it's a pleasant surprise, but not at the cost of a ridiculous salary that will screw up the roster. If he takes a discount for the team, he's got a fan in me.

Edit: My post was more or less complimentary to post #2 (MrSandMan's) as I feel pretty similar.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Shoreline

[ben_usmc 253]

the only thing I fear is big money into aging stars. I just hope if we do people like Z know when it's time to hang them up. So we won't be stuck with a cap hit of 6 mill at age 38; if he can no longer play at that level.

[Chunkylover 26]

Definitely taken out of context. What I hear is, "I destroyed the Penguins by dragging out my decision to sign with Detroit, thus making it impossible for them to get adequate replacements. I'm going to do the same to the Red Wings. I'm just working my way back to Ottawa."

[dat's sick 1,002]

the only thing I fear is big money into aging stars. I just hope if we do people like Z know when it's time to hang them up. So we won't be stuck with a cap hit of 6 mill at age 38; if he can no longer play at that level.

You're disregarding the fact that even if the cap goes down a bit in the next few years, it will probably have gone up so much by the time Z is 38, that 6 mil won't be as big a hit as it is now.

[therock48880 14]

Definitely taken out of context. What I hear is, "I destroyed the Penguins by dragging out my decision to sign with Detroit, thus making it impossible for them to get adequate replacements. I'm going to do the same to the Red Wings. I'm just working my way back to Ottawa."

Free agency began on July 1, Hossa signed with Detroit on July 2. That's not really what I'd consider "dragging out the decision." Shero should have probably had a clue that he may not re-sign when he turned down their contract offers in the regular season. Hmmmm, maybe a backup plan in place would have been a good idea? Satan isn't much of a backup plan.

[RedWingedKitten 9]

Free agency began on July 1, Hossa signed with Detroit on July 2.

I remember that day... I was up north camping and I had to go to McDonalds to get some wifi. I went onto NHL.com and the headline was "Hossa to Hockeytown". Needless to say I started spazzing right there in Micky Ds.

If Hossa really wants to stay, he can stay. I believe in Ken Holland, but he will need to use a lot of his magic dust to keep Hossa and Franzen.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Free agency began on July 1, Hossa signed with Detroit on July 2. That's not really what I'd consider "dragging out the decision." Shero should have probably had a clue that he may not re-sign when he turned down their contract offers in the regular season. Hmmmm, maybe a backup plan in place would have been a good idea? Satan isn't much of a backup plan.

That reads funny

But I agree with your statement. It's not like Hossa held out a long time, I think it was mostly sour grapes (by the Pens fans) because we beat them then took Hossa for less money than they offered him.

[anthonyn66 89]

Hossa Hudler

if enough then Sammy

Kopecky can go, Chelios is retiring anyways

Hudler to me > Franzen, especially if Franzen wants 4 mil

Edited February 18, 2009 by anthonyn66

[therock48880 14]

That reads funny

I wish I could say I did that on purpose, but I truly didn't. I wasn't even considering the other pronunciation of Satan. lol

[Mark B 0]

Well, either you are not only new to this forum, but new to the Red Wings nation and fandom as well! Unless you've been under a rock in recent weeks then you should know that Hossa already said "I Will" to the notion that he'd take less to stay here. Rumor has him siginging for around the same Cap average as Zetterberg, and yes it would be a HUGE discount considering he wold make top dollar anywhere else!

so, he would sign for $6M-ish.

Ya" he said he would take less and no it has not been recent weeks!!! it was just this past weekend that he said he would take less,

But never heard him say anything about taking 6M maybe -ish being 6.5 - 6.8.. And yes I am new to this forum, I had to sign up to *****

and complain about Osgood playing os s***y, and No I been a wings fan for a long,Long time. Thanks.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

You're disregarding the fact that even if the cap goes down a bit in the next few years, it will probably have gone up so much by the time Z is 38, that 6 mil won't be as big a hit as it is now.

The next 3-5 years concern me, considering how much the salary cap will drop. Ron Maclean suggested its going to drop into the 40s on CBC a few weeks ago after next year. But you're right. 12 years from now, the salary cap will at least be in the 60s, and thats disregarding inflation, just a mere recovery from the recession.

Just for reference, about 12 years ago, during the 95-96 season, the average team payroll was a whopping 19.8M, and the Wings had a steep payroll that year. Don't know how Illitch managed to keep his house by spending 28.5M on the team that year. Even better, in 92-93, the average NHL team payroll was $10M.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Hossa Hudler

if enough then Sammy

Kopecky can go, Chelios is retiring anyways

Hudler to me > Franzen, especially if Franzen wants 4 mil

I agree that Hudler would be better to retain than Franzen, simply because Hudler is going to have the friendlier contract. As I've said elsewhere, Hudler can make the Wings an offer they can't refuse. If I'm Hudler, I force the Wings to retain me by taking a 2 year deal for around 2.3-2.8 per year. Why would Hudler do that? 1) He gets to remain on a competitive team; 2) He knows if he makes the Wings an offer they can't refuse, then it'll be someone else being traded/let go, which means a bigger role for Hudler and more ice time 3) More ice time = more opportunities to bolster his stats 4) If Hossa is staying, then Hudler knows he's going to be playing with at least one of Hossa, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk 5) By the time his contract expires with the Wings, hes a young, 27 year old unrestricted free agent whose likely to have posted 3 consecutive seasons of 65-85 points (hes on pace for 67 points as it is this year). Essentially, he hits the market as a young player with great stats and he doesn't have to worry about never experiencing Stanley Cup glory, so I doubt he'd have reservations about signing something like a $5M, 6 year deal with a desperate bottom-feeder.

If Hudler signs a cheap, 2 year contract with the Wings now, he's essentially Daniel Briere ca. July of 2007. And we all know how that turned out for Dan.

The crazy thing about that is, if the Wings did some creative manuevering, they could retain all of Franzen, Hudler, and Hossa. But it would take some Zetterberg-esque creativity from Holland.

What are people's opinions about Franzen taking this kind of contract? I honestly can't decide whether he'll go for more money, short term, or go for the long-term security in an uncertain economy as a 29/30 year old whos in the midst of his prime:

Johan Franzen @ 9 years, 25.5M = 2.83 per year

4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 2, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5 = 9 years, 2.83. That puts him up to 37/38 years old.

I guess it depends on how long Franzen thinks he can keep up his goal scoring.

[therock48880 14]

I agree that Hudler would be better to retain than Franzen, simply because Hudler is going to have the friendlier contract. As I've said elsewhere, Hudler can make the Wings an offer they can't refuse. If I'm Hudler, I force the Wings to retain me by taking a 2 year deal for around 2.3-2.8 per year. Why would Hudler do that? 1) He gets to remain on a competitive team; 2) He knows if he makes the Wings an offer they can't refuse, then it'll be someone else being traded/let go, which means a bigger role for Hudler and more ice time 3) More ice time = more opportunities to bolster his stats 4) If Hossa is staying, then Hudler knows he's going to be playing with at least one of Hossa, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk 5) By the time his contract expires with the Wings, hes a young, 27 year old unrestricted free agent whose likely to have posted 3 consecutive seasons of 65-85 points (hes on pace for 67 points as it is this year). Essentially, he hits the market as a young player with great stats and he doesn't have to worry about never experiencing Stanley Cup glory, so I doubt he'd have reservations about signing something like a $5M, 6 year deal with a desperate bottom-feeder.

If Hudler signs a cheap, 2 year contract with the Wings now, he's essentially Daniel Briere ca. July of 2007. And we all know how that turned out for Dan.

The crazy thing about that is, if the Wings did some creative manuevering, they could retain all of Franzen, Hudler, and Hossa. But it would take some Zetterberg-esque creativity from Holland.

What are people's opinions about Franzen taking this kind of contract? I honestly can't decide whether he'll go for more money, short term, or go for the long-term security in an uncertain economy as a 29/30 year old whos in the midst of his prime:

Johan Franzen @ 9 years, 25.5M = 2.83 per year

4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 2, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5 = 9 years, 2.83. That puts him up to 37/38 years old.

I guess it depends on how long Franzen thinks he can keep up his goal scoring.

I agree that they can retain all of those guys if they're willing to accept those types of contracts. I have a gut feeling, though, that Franzen might test the market if they sign Hossa first. To be honest, I wouldn't blame either one of those two if they tried to get a huge payday this summer. If all three stay, though, I think we may be looking at the closest thing to a dynasty this sport may ever see in the cap world.

In terms of Hudler-Franzen, which I think you and I argued about in a different thread, if salary wasn't an issue, I'd take Franzen. However, in a cap world, Hudler for 3 million is more attractive than Franzen for 4.5-5 million, or whatever he can get on the open market. I think it's really a silly dispute because Hudler's an rfa and isn't going anywhere. I doubt if he'll get a huge offer and if he doesn't get a huge offer, the Wings would match. Hudler=arbitration, imo.

[C-TownWing 0]

The next 3-5 years concern me, considering how much the salary cap will drop. Ron Maclean suggested its going to drop into the 40s on CBC a few weeks ago after next year. But you're right. 12 years from now, the salary cap will at least be in the 60s, and thats disregarding inflation, just a mere recovery from the recession.

Just for reference, about 12 years ago, during the 95-96 season, the average team payroll was a whopping 19.8M, and the Wings had a steep payroll that year. Don't know how Illitch managed to keep his house by spending 28.5M on the team that year. Even better, in 92-93, the average NHL team payroll was $10M.

Who knows if we'll even have a cap tied to revenues at the end of the contract? Don't forget that the CBA's up first.

I'm anxiously awaiting my prize for being the first to freak out about the 2011-12 season possibly being cancelled by a work stoppage.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Who knows if we'll even have a cap tied to revenues at the end of the contract? Don't forget that the CBA's up first.

I'm anxiously awaiting my prize for being the first to freak out about the 2011-12 season possibly being cancelled by a work stoppage.

True, but the NHLPA reinstated the CBA again already, so at least since its implementation, the players have approved.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I agree that Hudler would be better to retain than Franzen, simply because Hudler is going to have the friendlier contract. As I've said elsewhere, Hudler can make the Wings an offer they can't refuse. If I'm Hudler, I force the Wings to retain me by taking a 2 year deal for around 2.3-2.8 per year. Why would Hudler do that? 1) He gets to remain on a competitive team; 2) He knows if he makes the Wings an offer they can't refuse, then it'll be someone else being traded/let go, which means a bigger role for Hudler and more ice time 3) More ice time = more opportunities to bolster his stats 4) If Hossa is staying, then Hudler knows he's going to be playing with at least one of Hossa, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk 5) By the time his contract expires with the Wings, hes a young, 27 year old unrestricted free agent whose likely to have posted 3 consecutive seasons of 65-85 points (hes on pace for 67 points as it is this year). Essentially, he hits the market as a young player with great stats and he doesn't have to worry about never experiencing Stanley Cup glory, so I doubt he'd have reservations about signing something like a $5M, 6 year deal with a desperate bottom-feeder.

If Hudler signs a cheap, 2 year contract with the Wings now, he's essentially Daniel Briere ca. July of 2007. And we all know how that turned out for Dan.

The crazy thing about that is, if the Wings did some creative manuevering, they could retain all of Franzen, Hudler, and Hossa. But it would take some Zetterberg-esque creativity from Holland.

What are people's opinions about Franzen taking this kind of contract? I honestly can't decide whether he'll go for more money, short term, or go for the long-term security in an uncertain economy as a 29/30 year old whos in the midst of his prime:

Johan Franzen @ 9 years, 25.5M = 2.83 per year

4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 2, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5 = 9 years, 2.83. That puts him up to 37/38 years old.

I guess it depends on how long Franzen thinks he can keep up his goal scoring.

hell, sign them all to 9 year contracts just don't include any of the nutty no trade clauses!!!

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Yes, thats it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that Lilja is in his prime, and is having a career year, while Lidstrom will be in his 40s next year, and is having a "non-Lidstromesque" year already. If anyone recalls, the difference in 2 years from Chelios being nominated for the Norris to 2 years later was a world of difference.

And Lilja has been an elite PKer this season. Thats not to say anything of the rest of his play.

How dare you!?!? Nick and I will only be 39 next "season" and won't be 40 until the END of next "season" thank you very much! March and April respectively!

[rick zombo 3,739]

I can't believe, with the 3000 Osgood threads, that these topics were merged.