Retire #'s 18,25,33,96

[hosehead9 0]

#5 will be the next to go. no others are even worth consideration right NOW.

(with special emphasis on "NO", meaning NOT federov, NOT shanahan, and NOT any other former wing for which people have a love affair)

plaque, statue... sure, mr. illitch could hook them up with free lifetime hot and ready little caesar pizzas for all i care... but NO jerseys in the rafters.

the grind line will especially be honored upon their exit in one form or another... count on it. this is an organization with the most class in the league. they already have a few distinguished murals/pictures in the joe louis suites to honor #18/#33/#25.

Dude you are way of on Fedorov. His 3 cups and total points as a Wing already put him a head of some players with jerseys retired.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Dude you are way of on Fedorov. His 3 cups and total points as a Wing already put him a head of some players with jerseys retired.

I'm not being confrontational, but can I ask whom? Because there's more than numbers involved in a decision like this, I feel.

[spyder 0]

#16 belongs up in the rafters. Also what city is Chelios' number getting retired in?

[Yzersyukstromberg 0]

I realize this one might get some flack, however I would fully advocate once these guys retire, placing their numbers on the rafters along with Stevie Y, anyone who has watched the 4 cup runs knows how much a part of this these guys have been. Obviously Lids will get #5 retired and although I doubt the others will... if it were a vote I think it would be a very close and hotly contested one... so I lay the discussion before you...

If they manage to win their 5th cup in the next 2 years, it will only serve to make this a real possibility...

My vote would for placing #18 - Maltby, #25 McCarty, #33 Draper and #96 Homer in the rafters

That's just me...

I understand that it's your opinion...but,

#18 - Not a chance

#25 - Never

#33 - Nope

#96 - Best of the bunch, but no

All of these guys played very important parts in the Wings' 4 Cup runs, but if we drop the 'standard' required to retire a jersey number, then we'll have no numbers left to wear on the ice in a matter of another 20 years. It just can't happen. In a franchise with 83 years of history, there are lots of players who will pass through the organization and have a very big impact, but to retire each of their numbers just isn't feasible. I respect how you appreciate each of these guys contributions, but none of them warrant a jersey retirement.

[eva unit zero 271]

Looking at it right now, the guys who deserve to have their numbers retired based on their Red Wings career as it stands right now are as follows:

#2 Jack Stewart, D

#4 Red Kelly, D

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom, D

#6 Larry Aurie, RW

#30 Chris Osgood, G

#91 Sergei Fedorov, C

After those guys, there are a couple other banners possibly deserving of being hung for players whose numbers are or would have already been retired.

#1 Johnny Mowers, G

#1 Roger Crozier, G

#5 Ebbie Goodfellow, D

#7 Norm Ullman, C

A note: I did not include anyone on these lists who did not begin their career with Detroit. Hence the exclusion of guys like Syd Howe, Brendan Shanahan, Harry Lumley, and others.

[jvxp 0]

If we were honoring numbers like the Maple Leafs, then I'd say sure! You can add 30, 14, and 91 too.

The Wings retire numbers, so I'm ok with 5, and possibly 40 and 13 only.

Agreed!

[talex 1]

Lets retire Kyle Calder's number, and whoever that really crappy D man we got the year before too...

Edit Cory Cross is that D man deserving of his number in the rafters

were either of these guys 4 cup winners on the same team?

[talex 1]

I understand that it's your opinion...but,

#18 - Not a chance

#25 - Never

#33 - Nope

#96 - Best of the bunch, but no

All of these guys played very important parts in the Wings' 4 Cup runs, but if we drop the 'standard' required to retire a jersey number, then we'll have no numbers left to wear on the ice in a matter of another 20 years. It just can't happen. In a franchise with 83 years of history, there are lots of players who will pass through the organization and have a very big impact, but to retire each of their numbers just isn't feasible. I respect how you appreciate each of these guys contributions, but none of them warrant a jersey retirement.

I would agree with most posters here with an exception. Some list #13 and #40 who have won 2/1 cups respectively. These guys have won 4 and might just win a 5th all with the wings, the only players who took part in all 4 to date, not even Stevie has 4. Looking at the way players move around now adays I do not believe this would be an issue, as you state there are alot of players that pass through, other than Mac breif stint away, these guys have all been here. I do not know how often everyone things our beloved wings are going to win cups, but I doubt we will see 4 in a 10 (lockout) year stretch anytime soon, so I do not think we will run out of numbers. Also as I stated, if they pull off a 5th, how special and how often does anyone really think this is going to happen? I think to some degree some fans do not realize how lucky we have been to have these guys, 4 cups and are still in contention. As far as #40 and #13, I love them both but their over all contribution has not equalled any of the 4 above, it hopefully will exceed those guys but at this point I think it is nuts to already want to put their numbers in the rafters. In todays free agent type market the wings may sometimes be the exception to the rule, but if you cannot get your number honored for history by sticking with a team and winning 4 cups, then who knows what the qualification should be, I guess the media and popularity should be the judge.

[talex 1]

#16 belongs up in the rafters. Also what city is Chelios' number getting retired in?

I have a feeling Cheli will be going to Chicago for next season and I would think they will retire it there, if not next season then the following for sure, if he retires in Detroit I do not know if we will retire his number here or not. I read an article awhile ago where Cheli stated he saw himself back in Chicago before he retires...

[egroen 384]

I'm not being confrontational, but can I ask whom? Because there's more than numbers involved in a decision like this, I feel.

Fedorov has similar accomplishments as a Red Wing to Abel and better accomplishments than Delvecchio -- and not just numbers, I recognize we are talking completely different eras. A Hart and two Selkes, plus Fedorov's unbelievable playoff performances give him a much higher peak than those two, though their entire body of work as Red Wings closes the gap.

[BlakChamber 8]

I would agree with most posters here with an exception. Some list #13 and #40 who have won 2/1 cups respectively. These guys have won 4 and might just win a 5th all with the wings, the only players who took part in all 4 to date, not even Stevie has 4. Looking at the way players move around now adays I do not believe this would be an issue, as you state there are alot of players that pass through, other than Mac breif stint away, these guys have all been here. I do not know how often everyone things our beloved wings are going to win cups, but I doubt we will see 4 in a 10 (lockout) year stretch anytime soon, so I do not think we will run out of numbers. Also as I stated, if they pull off a 5th, how special and how often does anyone really think this is going to happen? I think to some degree some fans do not realize how lucky we have been to have these guys, 4 cups and are still in contention. As far as #40 and #13, I love them both but their over all contribution has not equalled any of the 4 above, it hopefully will exceed those guys but at this point I think it is nuts to already want to put their numbers in the rafters. In todays free agent type market the wings may sometimes be the exception to the rule, but if you cannot get your number honored for history by sticking with a team and winning 4 cups, then who knows what the qualification should be, I guess the media and popularity should be the judge.

I think most of the people who are saying to retire #13 and #40 are saying retire them, assuming they play the rest of their career with Detroit and win another Cup or two. If, godforbid, they both suffered career ending injuries in the next game, I don't think there'd be anyone saying those number should be hung in the rafters.

It's harder to get a number retired in Detroit than it is to get into the Hockey Fall of Fame. If Maltby, McCarty, Draper, and Homer don't get in the Hall of Fame (a safe assumption), why on earth should they get their numbers retired?

I think they Wings should, and will do something nice for those guys, but not retiring their number.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Great thread.

Mattias Ritola should get his #42 retired. Those two games he played were amazing. If he plays any more, it's just further proof.

[VM1138 1,921]

I realize this one might get some flack, however I would fully advocate once these guys retire, placing their numbers on the rafters along with Stevie Y, anyone who has watched the 4 cup runs knows how much a part of this these guys have been. Obviously Lids will get #5 retired and although I doubt the others will... if it were a vote I think it would be a very close and hotly contested one... so I lay the discussion before you...

If they manage to win their 5th cup in the next 2 years, it will only serve to make this a real possibility...

My vote would for placing #18 - Maltby, #25 McCarty, #33 Draper and #96 Homer in the rafters

That's just me...

I think that's too many, but maybe "unofficially" retiring them, like #6?

[uk_redwing 495]

#20 and #44 should be retired. You shouldnt have to ask why

[egroen 384]

I think that's too many, but maybe "unofficially" retiring them, like #6?

#6 was officially retired and then officially unretired by Ilitch -- largely because Aurie is not in the Hall of Fame.

Though his number is out of circulation, just like #16.

I would love to see Red wings numbers "honored" in the rafters, just like Toronto.

Honor Aurie and Konstantinov like they deserve to be -- and in these two cases maybe you keep their numbers out of circulation.

Maybe Maltby, Draper, McCarty and Homstrom would qualify for "honored" jerseys in that case, but even then, you are opening up the rafters to a lot of guys who deserve it easily before them. Remember, Maltby and Draper did not even start their careers as Red Wings.

[toby91_ca 620]

I'm basing this post on reading the title of the thread only, so pardon my ignorance for points that might have already been made in the 4 pages of replies (seriously, what is there to discuss here?)

I'm being 100% honest here when I say "I think I have just as good of a chance at getting my number sent to the rafters as any of the players mentioned"

Edited February 16, 2009 by toby91_ca

[Casey 145]

Retiring? 4, 5, 6. Maybe 13 and 40 someday.

Honoring? 18, 25, 33, 96. Number is still honored, but active.

[Yzersyukstromberg 0]

I would agree with most posters here with an exception. Some list #13 and #40 who have won 2/1 cups respectively. These guys have won 4 and might just win a 5th all with the wings, the only players who took part in all 4 to date, not even Stevie has 4. Looking at the way players move around now adays I do not believe this would be an issue, as you state there are alot of players that pass through, other than Mac breif stint away, these guys have all been here. I do not know how often everyone things our beloved wings are going to win cups, but I doubt we will see 4 in a 10 (lockout) year stretch anytime soon, so I do not think we will run out of numbers. Also as I stated, if they pull off a 5th, how special and how often does anyone really think this is going to happen? I think to some degree some fans do not realize how lucky we have been to have these guys, 4 cups and are still in contention. As far as #40 and #13, I love them both but their over all contribution has not equalled any of the 4 above, it hopefully will exceed those guys but at this point I think it is nuts to already want to put their numbers in the rafters. In todays free agent type market the wings may sometimes be the exception to the rule, but if you cannot get your number honored for history by sticking with a team and winning 4 cups, then who knows what the qualification should be, I guess the media and popularity should be the judge.

I completely understand what you're saying, but all I'm getting at is this...over the 83 years of Red Wings hockey there have been PLENTY of guys who have been involved in multiple Cup wins...go back to the 50's when the Wings were a dynasty; there were plenty of similar type players who won Cups but didn't walk away with their jersey # retired. If we just make it so that all you have to do is be on the team for multiple Cup wins, we're better off to honor the team, not the individuals. Jersey retirements are for the best of the best. None of these guys fit that category. On the note of Stevie Y, and how he doesn't even have 4 cups...that's only a matter of when he came in to the league. If Stevie wasn't the age he is, he'd have been a part of the 4th Cup as well...but unfortunately for him (and fortunately for us), Stevie paid the price from 1983-1993 helping build the Wings into the team they are now. He took his lumps for 10 or so years, with little chance of a Cup win, and was a big part of why the Wings finally made the leap to a serious contender starting in about '94. Long story short, I still don't feel the guys mentioned deserve a jersey retirement.

[bellarina 1]

Dude you are way of on Fedorov. His 3 cups and total points as a Wing already put him a head of some players with jerseys retired.

91 will never hang in the rafters( unless we draft a new Yzerman or Lidstrom), it's not only about points.

18,25,33,96 <--although we love all these guys and thier contributions, these numbers will also never hang in the rafters. They will be remembered in some other way but not the rafters.

The only other number I see going up is #5

I think that no.16 should be up there as well. (i know it won't happen)

Here are some other numbers that need to be recognized. 8,30,39 13,40, 14, and many more.

Thats what happens with a great team every man is important.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The following is not meant to be directed at anyone in particular.

What exactly is it with people and their fascination/obsession with retiring as many Wing's jersey's as possible?

I don't get it. Is it an attempt to prolong the glory years and live them forever? Is it an ego thing? Is it something to compare against the retired jersey counts of other teams? Or are people simply incapable of separating love/emotion from this monumental decision.

Jersey retirements ought not to be taken lightly. Retiring every Tom, Dick and Harry that helped the Wings succeed or played a long time with the Wings is absurd. It may be an honor to those players. But IMO it waters down what it means to have your jersey retired.

Where would we stop? Would we retire Doug Brown's number? What about Mike Vernon? Hasek's number? Why not add Slava Fetisov?

I don't understand this need some folks have to see as many jersey's retired as possible. I don't get it at all. Keep it to a minimum. Put only the best of the best up there.

Steve Yzerman, duh.

Nick Lidstrom, duh.

After that, there is nobody worth mentioning except Chris Osgood. I am not a proponent of retiring Ozzie's number. But he's far more deserving than any other player including Zetterberg and Datsyuk at this point.

Other than Oz, Sergei Fedorov would be another guy and you all know what I think about retiring Fedorov. But I would retire Fedorov's number and declare every Wing's home game "Sergei Fedorov Night" before I would be ok with retiring Draper, Maltby, Mac, Homer, etc..

[egroen 384]

I don't understand this need some folks have to see as many jersey's retired as possible. I don't get it at all. Keep it to a minimum. Put only the best of the best up there.

Steve Yzerman, duh.

Nick Lidstrom, duh.

After that, there is nobody worth mentioning except Chris Osgood. I am not a proponent of retiring Ozzie's number. But he's far more deserving than any other player including Zetterberg and Datsyuk at this point.

Other than Oz, Sergei Fedorov would be another guy and you all know what I think about retiring Fedorov. But I would retire Fedorov's number and declare every Wing's home game "Sergei Fedorov Night" before I would be ok with retiring Draper, Maltby, Mac, Homer, etc..

How do you feel about Red Kelly?

I just see him as a no-brainer and have yet to hear a single good reason why he should not be up in the the rafters.

[spydrwebb 0]

when making an intellectual retort, absence of the word "dude" will likely result in you being taken seriously.

the point stands, #91 will not be hanging from the rafters.

the man love people have for him has got to stop.

respect, sure... i'll give him that much... retiring his jersey, give me a break.

Dude you are way of on Fedorov. His 3 cups and total points as a Wing already put him a head of some players with jerseys retired.

[talex 1]

The following is not meant to be directed at anyone in particular.

What exactly is it with people and their fascination/obsession with retiring as many Wing's jersey's as possible?

I don't get it. Is it an attempt to prolong the glory years and live them forever? Is it an ego thing? Is it something to compare against the retired jersey counts of other teams? Or are people simply incapable of separating love/emotion from this monumental decision.

Jersey retirements ought not to be taken lightly. Retiring every Tom, Dick and Harry that helped the Wings succeed or played a long time with the Wings is absurd. It may be an honor to those players. But IMO it waters down what it means to have your jersey retired.

Where would we stop? Would we retire Doug Brown's number? What about Mike Vernon? Hasek's number? Why not add Slava Fetisov?

I don't understand this need some folks have to see as many jersey's retired as possible. I don't get it at all. Keep it to a minimum. Put only the best of the best up there.

Steve Yzerman, duh.

Nick Lidstrom, duh.

After that, there is nobody worth mentioning except Chris Osgood. I am not a proponent of retiring Ozzie's number. But he's far more deserving than any other player including Zetterberg and Datsyuk at this point.

Other than Oz, Sergei Fedorov would be another guy and you all know what I think about retiring Fedorov. But I would retire Fedorov's number and declare every Wing's home game "Sergei Fedorov Night" before I would be ok with retiring Draper, Maltby, Mac, Homer, etc..

I never promoted every tom, dick and harry. The players I spoke of are the ONLY ones to be with the wings for ALL 4. Mac in particular played a HUGE role in 2 of the 4, but all 4 players had pivitol roles, I do not feel they were just along for the ride. The superstars changed, but these guys were still there and it got done. I do not take cup wins litely which is why I think the discussion is worthy. None of those guys will get their numbers retired, but without them we would most likely not be having discussion about #14 or #91 either because I do not think they would have won all 3 cups those 2 were part of, winning the cup last year I think is a testiment to our "grinders" who have stood solid and provided heart when we needed it, that's just my take and I once heard it so eloquantly put... all those numbers will hang high in the rafters of my heart for eternity...

[lets go pavel 2]

I never promoted every tom, dick and harry. The players I spoke of are the ONLY ones to be with the wings for ALL 4. Mac in particular played a HUGE role in 2 of the 4, but all 4 players had pivitol roles, I do not feel they were just along for the ride. The superstars changed, but these guys were still there and it got done. I do not take cup wins litely which is why I think the discussion is worthy. None of those guys will get their numbers retired, but without them we would most likely not be having discussion about #14 or #91 either because I do not think they would have won all 3 cups those 2 were part of, winning the cup last year I think is a testiment to our "grinders" who have stood solid and provided heart when we needed it, that's just my take and I once heard it so eloquantly put... all those numbers will hang high in the rafters of my heart for eternity...

You don't retire numbers because of heart, effort, longevity, devotion, grit, hustle ... you retire a number because of greatness. When you retire a number, it essentially is saying that no one could ever do that number justice, so no one should wear it again. If anything, I would think they would encourage people to wear those numbers you're talking about. As has been said before, there are other ways to honor these guys.

[RedWingAbner 13]

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