ManLuv4Clears 7 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Great point, unfortunately there's no "stat" to "back it up". esteef Because some people around here only pay attention to the stat sheet, and to them, that's the game of hockey. See above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 For those who are anti-downey and think that enforcers have no impact on the game, can you explain to me why Babcock says that Downey is here to "Keep the flies off?" I thought he was referring to teams being physical with the stars but that must not be the case since he's useless. So, please, feel free to explain that comment. Also, I've read in this thread that fighting is dying in hockey. Really? Fighting is up 25% this year compared to last year, which was up dramatically from the previous year. Anyone watch the San Jose-Montreal game a week or so ago? The Sharks came out on fire and dominated the early portion of the first period. Laraque and Shelley had a fight in which BGL destroyed Shelley. The crowd went nuts, the players responded and Montreal scored 3 straight. The ENTIRE momentum of that game changed due to the fight. Yet, fighters are worthless, right? Why badmouth a mediocre player? The far more important question is this, if "keeping the flies off" is so vitally important why has Downey only played 3 games this season? How useful was Shelley for the Sharks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Why badmouth a mediocre player? The far more important question is this, if "keeping the flies off" is so vitally important why has Downey only played 3 games this season? How useful was Shelley for the Sharks? To be fair the Sharks also have 8 current roster players who have at least 1 fight this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) Downey is entertaining and by all accounts a great teammate. I'm content with having him play some regular season games, but by no means should Downey dress in the playoffs over the likes of Helm and Leino. I'm fairly confident the Red Wings feel the same way. Edited March 7, 2009 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 To be fair the Sharks also have 8 current roster players who have at least 1 fight this season. I was talking about that specific scenario. What good did Shelly getting pounded by Laraque do for the Sharks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I was talking about that specific scenario. What good did Shelly getting pounded by Laraque do for the Sharks? It's better than your philosophy of duck and cover. What would that have done for the Sharks, except make them look like *******? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 It's better than your philosophy of duck and cover. What would that have done for the Sharks, except make them look like *******? It's pretty simple. 1. You don't give Laraque what he wants (ie a way to change momentum). 2. This in all likelihood would lead to Big Georges taking a stupid penalty trying to goad Jody into dropping the gloves or venting frustrations elsewhere. 3. PP time. The Stanley Cup isn't won in a dick measuring contest contrary to what guys like Cherry would have you believe. You actually have to win 16 games of hockey come playoff time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheUkrainian 49 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Downey is entertaining and by all accounts a great teammate. I'm content with having him play some regular season games, but by no means should Downey dress in the playoffs over the likes of Helm and Leino. I'm fairly confident the Red Wings feel the same way. I agree. not to de-rail the thread, but does anyone know when the Wings are hosting an open practice? I heard that it was sometime in March and had it written down somewhere, but can't find it. Just got my Winter Classic poster laminated and would like to get some autographs on it. ...carry on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 The Stanley Cup isn't won in a dick measuring contest contrary to what guys like Cherry would have you believe. You actually have to win 16 games of hockey come playoff time. Yep, but teams without players with "big dicks" usually don't get very far. esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I like the way some people on this board think they know better than every team in the NHL. Cos guess what all you anti enforcers, even Babcock disagrees with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xBrave_Heartx 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I'm not anti-enforcer/fighter. I'm pro-hockey player. The ability to play hockey should never take a back seat to fists and a willingness to get punched in the face. There is a reason fighting and fighters take a seat come playoff time. NHL coaches know that when push comes to shove and the games matter, you can't risk tapping guys on the shoulder that wouldn't be any less useless if they didn't bother taking a stick out on the ice with them. Which boils it all down to this, if they aren't good enough to play in the playoffs why bother with them during the regular season? It's a waste of time for everyone involved. The thing is though, as an average 4th line player Draper,Malts for instance. Draper - 7g 9a 16pt -9 Maltby - 5g 6a 11pt -6 Look at notable toughguys around the league Asham - 5g 6a 11pt +1 Eager - 10g 4a 14pt +8 Fedoruk - 5g 6a 11pt -9 Crombeen - 10g 8a 18pt -7 ERIC ******* BOULTON - 2g 8a 10pt -2 These guys dont have any skill? yet they are just as productive as Malts/Drapes.. All they are are Knuckledaggers and Meatheads, yet they are on pace for about 20-30 points this season. Guys like downey? 1 dementional as hell.. but he does a great job of keeping players at bay.. Downey had Lappys attention all night, Lappy wasn't running around at our stars, he was aiming for Downey. and McLeod was invisible and so was McCormick. in the STL game, Winchester and Janssen were on downey all game, had no effect on anyone else of ours.. Look at the Nashville game, and you saw Weber and Tootoo just running around, because they had no-one to look at them in the face and make them chose otherwise. Am i trying convert people into thinking hockey fighters/goons are a viable part of hockey. But they are not just 1 demention for the most part.. guys like Downey are part time enforcers.. they are good in short stints.. But any extended period of time, there lack of skill will show through, where as guys like Asham always have there skill to fall back on, when there fists and intimidation skills aren't needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 The thing is though, as an average 4th line player Draper,Malts for instance. Draper - 7g 9a 16pt -9 Maltby - 5g 6a 11pt -6 Look at notable toughguys around the league Asham - 5g 6a 11pt +1 Eager - 10g 4a 14pt +8 Fedoruk - 5g 6a 11pt -9 Crombeen - 10g 8a 18pt -7 ERIC ******* BOULTON - 2g 8a 10pt -2 May I add to those? Parros 4g 5a 9pt +7 Boll 3g 8a 11pt -5 Lucic 13g 21a 34pt +13 Crombeen 10g 8a 18pt -7 Barch 4g 5a 9pts even Damn these one dimensional liabilites Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atariboy 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 This is HOCKEY, and physicality is part of the game. When it's missing, the product is sorely lacking. Remember: the NHL is for the fans first. If we're not there, the game can't exist. Bettman the clown is off his rocker for trying to rid hockey of enforcers. The people want hard hits and the gloves off every once in a while. Anybody who's ever been to a game realizes this. As for Downey? One of my favorite Wings. Love a guy like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Yep, but teams without players with "big dicks" usually don't get very far. esteef The softest team in the history of mankind (as some would have us believe) cruised to the Cup last year. Euros are hung like skittles but they sure did alright last spring... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I like the way some people on this board think they know better than every team in the NHL. Cos guess what all you anti enforcers, even Babcock disagrees with you. The Wings are the best run franchise in pro sports, let alone hockey. They've dressed a fighter less than a dozen times this season and they won't in the playoffs. Obviously having a fighter is critical to success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 The Wings are the best run franchise in pro sports, let alone hockey. They've dressed a fighter less than a dozen times this season and they won't in the playoffs. Obviously having a fighter is critical to success. On the other hand, the Wings signed Downey, played him a good deal last year, and kept him around this year too, albeit primarily in GR. I don't think they have any illusions about Downey's abilities, and yet they clearly seem to think his contributions are valuable or he wouldn't be here. Of course the Red Wings are skilled enough to succeed without him, but that doesn't mean they aren't better with him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 On the other hand, the Wings signed Downey, played him a good deal last year, and kept him around this year too, albeit primarily in GR. I don't think they have any illusions about Downey's abilities, and yet they clearly seem to think his contributions are valuable or he wouldn't be here. Of course the Red Wings are skilled enough to succeed without him, but that doesn't mean they aren't better with him. If the Wings were better with him, he'd be playing every game and in the playoffs. That obviously isn't the case. He's a warm body. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 The Wings are the best run franchise in pro sports, let alone hockey. They've dressed a fighter less than a dozen times this season and they won't in the playoffs. Obviously having a fighter is critical to success. You're forgetting that in all the seasons when this team had more toughness in the regular season, they won the Cup. In my opinion that had a big part to do with this teams toughness last year in the playoffs. In prior years, the team tanked come playoff time, because they dressed a soft lineup of euro wussies only in the regular season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 In prior years, the team tanked come playoff time, because they dressed a soft lineup of euro wussies only in the regular season. In '06 when Legace dropped the ball, or in '07 when they beat the Flames and Sharks and gave the Cup-winning Ducks all they could handle before bowing out in an incredibly close series? Or in '04 when they had guys like Mac, Shanny, and Hatcher, and still lost to the clutching and grabbing Flames? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman54 91 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 You're forgetting that in all the seasons when this team had more toughness in the regular season, they won the Cup. In my opinion that had a big part to do with this teams toughness last year in the playoffs. In prior years, the team tanked come playoff time, because they dressed a soft lineup of euro wussies only in the regular season. Calling our best players Euro Wussies! too far.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 If the Wings were better with him, he'd be playing every game and in the playoffs. That obviously isn't the case. He's a warm body. Why would the Wings need a warm body? We have tons of players who could contribute, why sign a 34 year old warm body if he has nothing to contribute? That doesn't sound like something the best run franchise in pro sports would do. This year they haven't had a spot for him ... we have a glut of forwards. We all know he has his limitations, and that's why he doesn't play all the time or in the playoffs. I will readily admit that there are times that his contributions aren't needed ... why can't you admit that there are times when they ARE valuable? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 The softest team in the history of mankind (as some would have us believe) cruised to the Cup last year. Euros are hung like skittles but they sure did alright last spring... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Why would the Wings need a warm body? We have tons of players who could contribute, why sign a 34 year old warm body if he has nothing to contribute? That doesn't sound like something the best run franchise in pro sports would do. This year they haven't had a spot for him ... we have a glut of forwards. We all know he has his limitations, and that's why he doesn't play all the time or in the playoffs. I will readily admit that there are times that his contributions aren't needed ... why can't you admit that there are times when they ARE valuable? Injuries. Your guess is as good as mine as to why we'd sign a 34 year old scrub that has nothing to contribute. We also signed Chelios to give him a hobby during his retirement and signed McCarty as a charity case. Sure Downey might be nice to have around in case there's a linebrawl as he's the most expendable, but we haven't had one of those in a while. Trying to plan around it is kind of pointless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Never_Retire_Steve 35 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I think that there are guys like Downey bring intangibles to the team. I know one game isn't a very good sample size, but the game against the Blues the Wings looked motivated and played really well. I'd be interested to see the Wings record with Downey and without him in the lineup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therock48880 14 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 It's pretty simple. 1. You don't give Laraque what he wants (ie a way to change momentum). 2. This in all likelihood would lead to Big Georges taking a stupid penalty trying to goad Jody into dropping the gloves or venting frustrations elsewhere. 3. PP time. The Stanley Cup isn't won in a dick measuring contest contrary to what guys like Cherry would have you believe. You actually have to win 16 games of hockey come playoff time. Well, you certainly have ALL the answers don't ya? For some reason 25+ GM's in hockey see things differently than you do. What a bunch of morons. In terms of the Shelley situation, nice job of twisting around what I was talking about. (are you actually my wife logged in as norrisnick?) The fight COMPLETELY CHANGED THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME. THAT was my point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
