Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) This should make everyone smile. Apparently this is an actual debate on HF Boards. And there is even one, bless his heart, avid fan that will not accept the fact that Lidstrom is better than Markov. HFBoards debate Lidstroms game isn't what it once was. I'm not sure if you can call it Norris caliber defense anymore. Lidstrom really isn't on top of his game defensivly like he once was, even folks in Detroit will tell you that. But he still does hold and edge, because Markov is having an off year on D too. The thing that makes them close is that Markov is leading his team in scoring while Lidstrom isn't even leading the defense in scoring. Markov plays at two ends of the ice as well. Why do people always assume that if you put up good numbers you suck in your own end? Markov is outstanding defensivly, however, I do think Lidstrom is a tiny bit better. And how does not leading your team in scoring not count for anything? The offense is horrid for Montreal this season, but Markov is finding way to do it still. I am reversing my decision and now saying Markov is a tiny bit better. You are all over looking him because his name isn't Lidstrom, but he is a hell of a defensemen. I think Markov's offensive edge and his ability to lead a team outweigh Lidstrom's defensive edge. I was talking about how he can shoulder the workload of carrying the offense. Lidstrom can no longer do that, and he is lucky that he is on such a high scoring team, because if he wasn't you can bet his numbers would be a lot lower this year. Lidstrom is the best defensive defensman in Detroit, but the matter of the fact is that Markov carries both the offensive and defensive weight of his team. Edited March 11, 2009 by Konnan511 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Statts 4 Report post Posted March 11, 2009 Even though Lids has fallen a bit this year... Lidstrom 100 times out of 99 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted March 11, 2009 that guy has to be the definition of epic failure. This guy has probably never seen either of them play, ever. Markov is a good defensemen with good offensive sense, but, Lids will always be better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
softshoes 83 Report post Posted March 11, 2009 OK, I went to that link and it shows this Ultimate so and so is from San Jose. The defense(pun intended) rests. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NumbaSixty-Six Report post Posted March 11, 2009 Lidstrom could be on his deathbed and still be better than Markov, Chara/Gonchar/Green is a different story (Only include Green because of his amazing point totals, he sucks defensively though). Lidstrom has extreme values at both ends of the spectrum, he can shutdown and QB a Offensive Zone attack. He simply is the best defensemen in the last 10 years. I'd consider him better or just as good as RB,PC,DP... but thats just me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted March 11, 2009 Since Markov isn't even one of the 10 best defensemen in the league, I'd hate to think where that puts Lidstrom on this moron's list. Laughable comparison. This must be one of those people who goes on imdb to tell everyone that "The Dark Knight" is better than "The Godfather". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
interminded 1 Report post Posted March 11, 2009 This year ? Honestly ? Markov. sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedStormRising 7 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Career-wise, Lidstrom is obviously better. But the poll and debate is THIS year, so I think you could make a solid case for Markov. Statistically, with the exception of +/-, Markov is technically "better" than Lidstrom THIS year. The differences between Markov's and Lidstrom's +/- could partially be attributed to the team surrounding each of them and does not necessarily reflect how well or poorly they as an individual are playing. Therefore, I say it is a push THIS year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NumbaSixty-Six Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Since Markov isn't even one of the 10 best defensemen in the league, I'd hate to think where that puts Lidstrom on this moron's list. Laughable comparison. This must be one of those people who goes on imdb to tell everyone that "The Dark Knight" is better than "The Godfather". Ummm Godfather II sucked ass. You give off such a vibe of ignorance. Some people might have licked the Dark Knight better than the Godfather. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedStormRising 7 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Laughable comparison. This must be one of those people who goes on imdb to tell everyone that "The Dark Knight" is better than "The Godfather". Well, it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Ummm Godfather II sucked ass. You give off such a vibe of ignorance. Some people might have licked the Dark Knight better than the Godfather. I don't care if you "licked" The Dark Knight or not. Unless you're 10 years old and you have a moustache, it's not in the same league as The Godfather. Your pathetic responses are getting worse each time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Well, it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Ummm Godfather II sucked ass. You give off such a vibe of ignorance. Some people might have licked the Dark Knight better than the Godfather. Are you sure you're old enough to understand the Godfather? Godfather II is widely regarded as one of the few sequels to equal or better the original. Your posts are starting to smell like pre-deodorant teenager ... and why are you following GMR around, nipping at his heels? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Are you sure you're old enough to understand the Godfather? Godfather II is widely regarded as one of the few sequels to equal or better the original. Your posts are starting to smell like pre-deodorant teenager ... and why are you following GMR around, nipping at his heels? Because I've accused him before of coming here just to start crap. And you know what, he proves me right every time. Don't worry, he won't last for long with his attitude around here. BTW, I actually prefer the first movie over the second, but you're entitled to your opinion if you've seen both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Because I've accused him before of coming here just to start crap. And you know what, he proves me right every time. Don't worry, he won't last for long with his attitude around here. BTW, I actually prefer the first movie over the second, but you're entitled to your opinion if you've seen both. So it seems. As for the Godfathers, I honestly don't even bother to compare the two ... in my mind they were both epic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Ummm Godfather II sucked ass. You give off such a vibe of ignorance. Some people might have licked the Dark Knight better than the Godfather. Me fail english? That's unpossible! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) The funny thing is that this "NumbaSixty-Six" guy didn't start coming around until the Pens were actually back in the playoff race. When the Pens were stinking it up, he was nowhere to be found. He'd been absent since the Pens went home cupless. Edited March 12, 2009 by YoungGuns1340 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted March 12, 2009 My favorite line of thinking from this Einstein is when he uses the old "Markov carries his team's offense and defense, while Lidstrom doesn't even lead the Wings D in points!". By that insanely elementary line of thinking, one could argue the following: Put Markov on a team with the 5 worst defensemen in the NHL. Viola! He's now officially the greatest Dman on the planet b/c he carries his team's offense and defense by a mile and by comparison, no other defender in the league can come close. What a fecking moron. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 This was a pathetic thing to say about Lidstrom, but in all honesty as others have pointed out in the past, here on LGW we also tend to overrate certain players that other teams fans wouldn't. For instance, the arguments that Ozzie should be a Hall of Famer only seem to come from Wings fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Nick today, Nick tomorrow, Nick forever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seeinred 1,488 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 My favorite line of thinking from this Einstein is when he uses the old "Markov carries his team's offense and defense, while Lidstrom doesn't even lead the Wings D in points!". By that insanely elementary line of thinking, one could argue the following: Put Markov on a team with the 5 worst defensemen in the NHL. Viola! He's now officially the greatest Dman on the planet b/c he carries his team's offense and defense by a mile and by comparison, no other defender in the league can come close. What a fecking moron. That's pretty much exactly how the Hart is decided, unfortunately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted March 12, 2009 That's pretty much exactly how the Hart is decided, unfortunately. I don't know if I would go that far but I get your point. Seems that way sometimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 That's pretty much exactly how the Hart is decided, unfortunately. You do realize the Hart trophy is not a "Best Player" award but a "Most Valuable Player" award and therefore being a very good player who plays with very bad teammates pretty much makes you the kind of player who SHOULD be winning that award. The league's best player is not necessarily the league's most valuable player. The Hart trophy should be awarded to a player who is among the league's elite players and who was most important to his team's success, but whose team would probably not have made the playoffs without him. This automatically rules out players on non-playoff teams; as the player did not exactly do much for his team's success if they missed the postseason. So you consider who the most valuable player on each playoff team was. Sometimes, you'll have a clear winner, such as Steve Mason or Alexander Ovechkin. Other times, you'll get situations where multiple players could be challenging for MVP, such as Datsyuk vs Zetterberg vs Lidstrom or Malkin vs Crosby. Those situations would increase team success due to multiple high level players, but that would also reduce the chances of those players winning the Hart. For example: If two teams finished with the same record, but one team had three All-Stars and one had only one All-Star, I'll tell you who the best bet of the two teams for the Hart should be. The only "Best Player" award given out officially by the NHL is voted on by members of the NHLPA. It is the Lester B. Pearson Award and is given in most years to the same player as the Hart Trophy, with rare exception. This is due to the Hart trophy being voted on as a "Best Player" award rather than the "MVP" award it is supposed to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 Markov > Lidstrom Next thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 But....he provides so much LEADERSHIP to the Canadiens!! Can't you see by the way they handle themselves off the ice and give 110% effort every night on the ice? (Do people forget Nick is our captain?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
