I think hfboards hates wings because of the euro players

[sureWhyNot 19]

why is it that hfboards bash wings every day on the mainboard and always trying to downplay wings as a great team? Well I simply think it is wings is filled with euro players. Canadians on hfboards are incredible homers and take every oppurtunity to downplay any accomplishment by a swedish or russian player. I doubt wings would get as much hate with yzerman still playing.

I blame Don Cherry for brainwashing an entire generation.

To be completely honest, I see more euro fans whining about the euro bashing at HF then any actual bashing itself. I think you would be doing yourself a favor by getting over it.

As far as Don Cherry goes -- with all due respect man, the guy has forgotten more about the sport then any of us will ever know. I can understand you not liking him and thats perfectly fine. The solution is really quite simple -- CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

Personally I love the guy -- he is entertaining as all hell, I do realize his brand isn't for everyone, but then again his show is on "Hockey Night in Canada" so I guess you have a pretty clear cut way of ignoring him -- again, DON'T WATCH HIS SHOW.

He has been around the game a lot longer then any of us, and has achieved quite a bit in the sport, and while you may not like it, a lot of people do.

Tough luck I guess.

Edited March 13, 2009 by sureWhyNot

[Guest micah]

In every definition of the term. I'm sure he'd run and hide if Maltby challenged him to a fight.

How many definitions of the term are there?

I thought I made it clear that I don't think I'm all that tough.

...but I have been in a few scraps, occasionally with fellas that were bigger than and a hell of a lot more scary than Kirk Maltby. Yeah, I think I could handle a blind one-armed Maltby. That makes me an internet toughguy? Really?

[BlueMonk 102]

The Calgary fan contingent on HFBoards is just particularly poor, that's all. All the fan sites have their village idiot fans, but for some reason a disproportionately high percentage of Flames fans on HF are, um, intelligence challenged. Some of the dudes there couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted them the c and the t. It's not like that with most of the other fan bases there, though.

One fan base in particular that I'm impressed with - based, admittedly, on just a handful of personal encounters - is San Jose's.

[Namingway 146]

Well no, we don't play for the Wings, they do. But when you're at a sporting event, and you hear people chanting "We're #1!", I don't think you'd correct them and say "well really, they're #1, we're just the goobers sitting here watching". I say "we" all the time when talking about sports teams I root for. As in "we're better than this" or "we can do better" or "we're going to win it all". It may be annoying to some people, but fans are as much as part of the organization as the players are, we just have a different role in it all.

My $0.02.

I'm with you on that one. I say to each their own. There's nothing really wrong with saying "we". If you don't like it then don't say it. I don't think there is a right or wrong for that. To each their own my friends

Edited March 14, 2009 by Namingway

[Ms_Hockey 0]

This post gives me goose pimples.

I'm so glad we're hated. That's means we're the best!

Exactly.

"If you can't beat 'em, hate 'em".

[#19forPresident! 1]

Bulls***. Finesse does not negate toughness in hockey. Rule changes have negated toughness in hockey.

Well any jackalope knows rule changes have encouraged finesse / scoring and penalized toughness, but that doesn't change the fact that finesse can negate toughness. We ARE talking about players in the current NHL not the Hansons and Slapshot, so the statement is spot on.

[eva unit zero 271]

Bulls***. Finesse does not negate toughness in hockey.

So what you're saying is that Aaron Downey is a better hockey player than Wayne Gretzky, since despite Downey's lack of skill, he's tough enough to make up for it and despite Gretzky's incredible vision and finesse ability, he was one of the most physically weak players in the NHL, as well as being a skater on the level of Downey.

Toughness is part of hockey, but is not more important than finesse, despite what Cherry and his brainwashed followers would say. If you believe an otherwise useless enforcer is more important than a player who, while not being a first liner, can play a skilled game at one or both ends of the ice and hopefully is capable of contributing physically as well, then you are, well, wrong.

[lomekian 201]

People always call Don Cherry a racist, what is the difference with some of you smack talking Canadians? Here's a frickin tip PEOPLE PICK UP FOR THEIR PEOPLE. I'll take a Canadian over anyone. An American would take an American. A European a European. That's how it is. Sure some people differ, and that's where the problem starts. God, what is the world coming too, I love Americans, good people, even frickin Bush. Racism, Statism, Countrism, whatever you want to call it is stupid. Ruins the world.

As far as this, they probably do. My English prof and I had a huge discussion about last nights game. He thinks the Wings are the golden boys of the NHL. I told him that they get penalties just like everyone else. He disagreed and said how most of those penalties shouldnt have been. I said the Flames werent trying to win in the 1st last night, they were trying to intimadate us. He disagreed and said the Flames were taking advantage of a bunch of wussies (his words). What I got from it, other then my English prof is a moron, is that everyone defends there team no matter what. That is where bias, and hate comes from. Not Nationalism (there it is), just the fact, you either hate them or you love them. That'a true with pretty much EVERY team in the NHL.

There's my contribution to this stuff.

Reasonably true, but Big Don and some the Canadien hockey commentators need to realise that its a global game, where you cna support your country in the Olympics, but still love all the foreign guys in your team.

Talking about toughness, I've got a lot of respect for canadians in this respect..but there are plenty of other tough guys out there.....russians tend to be soft as hell or hard as nails...in any sport. I'd love to see the impact if the irish, scots, aussies or even better some of the central asian communities ever played hockey. Bloody tough sods who know how to fight almost as a matter of genetics!

I'm English, and a massive fan of football (or soccer to the hard of understanding), but like much as I support England in international tournaments, I love the influx all the foreign players has had on the quality of the english league. From what I;ve seen it applies similarly in hockey. A league without recognitiona nd opportunites for a lidstrom, ovechkin, or Kiprusoff, or equally, Hasek, Bure or Federov would be much poorer in terms of both qualirty and entertainment. They're not tough guys (although ovie looks pretty hard to me), but they raise the standard of the league immeasurably. That's what the likes of grapes (and his frankly nuclear fallout dress sense) should get into their skulls and remember. No fans want to see an end to fighting or good clean hits, but 'good old time hockey' was also full of dirty, vicious cheating bastards, who got away with all sorts. THe game is more skillfull as a result of the changes in rules, and as long as the refs don't have even more forced upon them (and learn some consistency), the NHL will grow its fan base exponentially through more euro's being successful and the NHL having a more global game

Edited March 14, 2009 by lomekian

[lomekian 201]

Well no, we don't play for the Wings, they do. But when you're at a sporting event, and you hear people chanting "We're #1!", I don't think you'd correct them and say "well really, they're #1, we're just the goobers sitting here watching". I say "we" all the time when talking about sports teams I root for. As in "we're better than this" or "we can do better" or "we're going to win it all". It may be annoying to some people, but fans are as much as part of the organization as the players are, we just have a different role in it all.

My $0.02.

Totally..after all spectator sport without the fans is like actors without an audience - only of any value to the people on the ice/ field/ stage etc. Players, coaches etc come and go - the fans remain, and can vote with their feet and be vocal enough to influence the running of any good sports club....so it is as much, if not more about us - so We is entirely justified. And as the saying goes, there's no I in team...

[lomekian 201]

How many definitions of the term are there?

I thought I made it clear that I don't think I'm all that tough.

...but I have been in a few scraps, occasionally with fellas that were bigger than and a hell of a lot more scary than Kirk Maltby. Yeah, I think I could handle a blind one-armed Maltby. That makes me an internet toughguy? Really?

I think your self depricating irony was lost on some sadly.....and I'll raise you - i'm a coward and skinny as hell, but i reckon i could have a blind, 1-armed Chara....if they let me use my rapier or bokken....

[thedisappearer 291]

Jeez, I hate the word "we", what did I do? Just saying

They will, they will rock you? Rock you?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I fight the urge to say something sarcastic every time I read that. "We" are fans. "They" are players. "We" do not actually play for the Red Wings. "They" do. It isn't like I mean to be pedantic, it just makes no sense.

I don't tend to write and talk that way, as it is not right and proper, but don't take any offense from it. We, the fans, live through our team; it's natural to associate "us" vs "them" in that way.

CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

DON'T WATCH HIS SHOW.

Or, watch the show, and criticize the man when he says dumb things.

There, now we've covered the only two options in the universe.

[Guest micah]

So what you're saying is that Aaron Downey is a better hockey player than Wayne Gretzky, since despite Downey's lack of skill, he's tough enough to make up for it and despite Gretzky's incredible vision and finesse ability, he was one of the most physically weak players in the NHL, as well as being a skater on the level of Downey.

You have to immagine a whole s***load of words that I never said to construct such a grand strawman. He's glorious, really. Good job.

Toughness is part of hockey, but is not more important than finesse, despite what Cherry and his brainwashed followers would say. If you believe an otherwise useless enforcer is more important than a player who, while not being a first liner, can play a skilled game at one or both ends of the ice and hopefully is capable of contributing physically as well, then you are, well, wrong.

Who said toughness is more important than finesse? Where? When?

Are you working on building an army of illiterate strawmen? I'm not scared, they'll probably be ******* who hide behind visors.

[sureWhyNot 19]

So what you're saying is that Aaron Downey is a better hockey player than Wayne Gretzky, since despite Downey's lack of skill, he's tough enough to make up for it and despite Gretzky's incredible vision and finesse ability, he was one of the most physically weak players in the NHL, as well as being a skater on the level of Downey.

Toughness is part of hockey, but is not more important than finesse, despite what Cherry and his brainwashed followers would say. If you believe an otherwise useless enforcer is more important than a player who, while not being a first liner, can play a skilled game at one or both ends of the ice and hopefully is capable of contributing physically as well, then you are, well, wrong.

Wow, you cannot seriously be this slow? It must be an act.

You would have a point (even though it would be supporting the argument you were attempting to refute) if you brought up the fact that having Dave Semenko (on his line at that) in no way hindered Gretzky's greatness. In fact it probably aided it a hell of a lot more then anyone here will give it credit for.

Semenko's toughness, in no way, shape or form took away from Gretzky's finesse -- then again I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of this board had no clue who Dave Semenko was. That said, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the asinine statement you made above -- or should I say what you claimed (with what rationale I don't know) the guy you had quoted had said.

[eva unit zero 271]

Wow, you cannot seriously be this slow? It must be an act.

You would have a point (even though it would be supporting the argument you were attempting to refute) if you brought up the fact that having Dave Semenko (on his line at that) in no way hindered Gretzky's greatness. In fact it probably aided it a hell of a lot more then anyone here will give it credit for.

Semenko's toughness, in no way, shape or form took away from Gretzky's finesse -- then again I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of this board had no clue who Dave Semenko was. That said, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the asinine statement you made above -- or should I say what you claimed (with what rationale I don't know) the guy you had quoted had said.

So what you're saying is, Semenko should have won a few Hart trophies when he played with Gretzky instead of Gretzky winning them, since toughness is more important to winning in hockey than finesse is?

[sureWhyNot 19]

So what you're saying is, Semenko should have won a few Hart trophies when he played with Gretzky instead of Gretzky winning them, since toughness is more important to winning in hockey than finesse is?

Dude, where the hell do you pull these things from.

What I am saying is really quite simple -- You posed an absolutely insane statement attacking the idea that:

Finesse does not negate toughness in hockey.

Unless you are literally delusional, I have no clue in this world how you could have possibly gotten the idea I was saying "Semenko should have won a few Hart trophies when he played with Gretzky instead of Gretzky winning them, since toughness is more important to winning in hockey than finesse is?"

I mean really, you are out too lunch. What I was saying is that you are an idiot more or less for not realizing that Finesse (Gretzky) does not negate toughness (Semenko) in hockey -- or in this instance, the Edmonton Oilers during their dynasty years.

Now that I have explained it as clear cut as I possibly could, I hope your idiotic statements where you "question" what someone is "really" saying will stop. You have the brain capacity of a jar of peanut butter bro. I am not saying this cause you disagree about the toughness aspect of hockey, I am saying it based on your comprehension and counterargument techniques -- if you can even call it that.

Get it through your head -- A hockey team can have both fineness and toughness integrated into it's style of play. They are not mutually exclusive in hockey -- hence, the Gretzky/Semenko citation.

[skacore 2]

A lot of people hate the Red Wings because they are single handedly trying their damndest to turn the great game of hockey into Bettman's ballet on ice. Just accept it, don't defend it. If you enjoy it then watch it, but unhappy fans who like real hockey are going to continue to call them out for it until something changes. It's really that simple.

[Guest micah]

So what you're saying is, Semenko should have won a few Hart trophies when he played with Gretzky instead of Gretzky winning them, since toughness is more important to winning in hockey than finesse is?

Dear Ricky Retardo,

This is what the poster you're responding to said:

"Wow, you cannot seriously be this slow? It must be an act.

You would have a point (even though it would be supporting the argument you were attempting to refute) if you brought up the fact that having Dave Semenko (on his line at that) in no way hindered Gretzky's greatness. In fact it probably aided it a hell of a lot more then anyone here will give it credit for.

Semenko's toughness, in no way, shape or form took away from Gretzky's finesse -- then again I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of this board had no clue who Dave Semenko was. That said, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the asinine statement you made above -- or should I say what you claimed (with what rationale I don't know) the guy you had quoted had said."

That is not a synonym for "Semenko should have won a few Hart trophies when he played with Gretzky instead of Gretzky winning them, since toughness is more important to winning in hockey than finesse is." Seriously, are you so confused as to believe the bulls*** you spout, or are you just trying to improve your miserable life by being an internet douchebag? I keep hoping (for your sake) that there's some other possibility that I haven't thought of yet.

[norrisnick 1]

A lot of people hate the Red Wings because they are single handedly trying their damndest to turn the great game of hockey into Bettman's ballet on ice. Just accept it, don't defend it. If you enjoy it then watch it, but unhappy fans who like real hockey are going to continue to call them out for it until something changes. It's really that simple.

The style of hockey the Wings play has nothing to do with Bettman and everything to do with Bowman. And if it isn't 'real' hockey, then I'm fairly certain you have no idea just what 'real' hockey is supposed to be.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The style of hockey the Wings play has nothing to do with Bettman and everything to do with Bowman. And if it isn't 'real' hockey, then I'm fairly certain you have no idea just what 'real' hockey is supposed to be.

While true, when Bowman inplemented that style, he had different types of players on the roster. The Russians usually did it to perfection, while the rest of the team would play it while also grinding on the other teams. It's different now, but was his idea originally.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Well the proof is in the stats I suppose, in the leading Fighting Major pen takers only 3 players in the top 100 are European, Raitis Ivanans is 32nd, David Koci is 53 rd and

rookie Boris Valabik lies in 82nd. Only Ivanans and Koci would i consider as enforcer types

although Big Boris is no mug, he can play a bit too thou. I say we go all out to sign Big George in the off season, just to shut up all the Cherryboys out there. I mean the last game the fella played in the NHL (only one) was back in '55 and he hasn't coached in it

for nearly 30.

The guy is outta touch and is only on for his way out remarks and stupid attire. If i re-call correctly, he was saying to give the wings the Cup at the start of last years

playoffs as he couldn't see anyone getting close to them. Well he can get some calls right I guess!!

Edited March 14, 2009 by Andy Pred 48

[Grim 5]

I don't see why the Wings have to appease any particular group... they are what they are, which is a finesse team. adding a thug who will see 5 mins of icetime will not make this team tough.

[Kira 451]

Yup. Don't get me started on today's music...

I think that may be the only thing you and I can agree on, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

[skacore 2]

The style of hockey the Wings play has nothing to do with Bettman and everything to do with Bowman. And if it isn't 'real' hockey, then I'm fairly certain you have no idea just what 'real' hockey is supposed to be.

Bowman wouldn't ice this team and Bowman's team wouldn't act like vaginas night after night. I guess me, among many many many others, have no idea what "real" hockey is supposed to be then. When the 1st place team in the conference can't sell out games, create energy in an arena, and has a lot of their own fans turning against them.... I'd say there's something wrong with that product, no?

[skacore 2]

I don't see why the Wings have to appease any particular group...

Because the fans make the NHL what it is.

adding a thug who will see 5 mins of icetime will not make this team tough.

Really? It did last year...