Steve Mason -- A Bit Overrated

[Datsyerberger 279]

Just looking to stir the pot here and see what others think. Keep in mind this isn't a Mason bash by any means, coming into the league and securing a position like he has at 20, all while putting up good numbers, is nothing to scoff at. However, he's starting to get mentioned as a Vezina candidate over some very worthy netminders.

A few things to consider here:

Ken Hitchcock coaches an amazingly effective defensive system. In fact, I believe Columbus is around #2 for least SA/G. Goaltenders seem to have an excellent track record on Hitchcock coached teams as well, including some that went on to be absolutely terrible on non-Hitchcock teams. Not only do his teams limit SA/G very well, but they also do a great job of limiting scoring chances.

Here are some other goaltenders to consider this year, in no particular order:

Tomas Vokoun -- .925 SV% on a defensively unspectacular Panthers team. Probably the most overlooked starter in the league. The guy is a consistently great goalie.

Pekka Rinne -- Worse team than C-Bus, higher SV% and near as many shutouts (team stat), though a few less games played. Also a rookie, like Mason.

Mike Smith -- Guy doesn't get near enough notice because he's on a s*** team. .916 SV%, 31.2 SA/G .. that's the 2nd highest SA/G in the league, and probably in the top 5 for shot quality as well.. and only .02% off from Mason. Being someone who watches a lot of TBL as well, I have to say this guy has been very impressive besides the stats.

Jonas Hiller -- Another guy beating out Mason in the SV% category, and also on one of the most penalized teams in the league.. thus doing a considerable amount of his workload on the PK. Again, a few less GP than Mason.

Ryan Miller -- Tons of Miller fans in the D, obviously.. again, higher SV%, defensively inferior team. Also plenty of starts to go to his name. This guy, imo, carries the Sabres more than Mason does the Jackets.

The "other" Mason -- .917 SV%, .01% shy of S. Mason, all while playing on a defensively inferior team.. and furthermore, one that has close to 500 games worth of injuries -- including top d-men, team captain, top 3 and top 6 forwards. This is the Mason who, in my opinion, should be getting more consideration this year.

Tim Thomas -- Even with Boston having great D, there's no denying how effective his Hasek-eqsue (as a Montreal fan in a fantasy league I play in put it) "Wacky Waiving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Goalie Style" has been.

Niklas (or is it Nicklas?) Backstrom -- As much as people like to argue the Minnesota defensive system, SA/G wise Columbus has been even better this year... and yet Backstrom leads Mason in SV%, with more starts and GP as well.

Roberto Luongo -- Equal SV% to Mason.

HM: Marc-Andre Fleury -- Falling on his ass aside, this guy has a great A game when his confidence is up. Still over .910 SV%, on a team that was missing their top 2 d-men for a considerable chunk of the year, not to mention some terrible floaters.

Note: I didn't put Brodeur on here because of very low GP, but in what he has done this year, he's been usual solid Brodeur.

So if I had to rate these goalies performance-wise this year?

1. Thomas

2. Vokoun

3. Miller

4. Backstrom

5. Rinne

6. Smith

7. C. Mason

8. Hiller

9. Luongo

10. S. Mason

11. Fleury

I can only imagine the flaming having Steve Mason at 10 might incur some places, but consider this: He's one of 2 rookie goalies on the list, and of all the goalies in that list, he's the youngest by a considerable amount, and also has more starts than a decent number of them.

Top 10 NHL goalie in his first year, at 20. That's pretty damned impressive. I just don't think he should be christened as a top 3 Vezina finalist, yet.

Thoughts?

[eva unit zero 271]

I'd agree with most of those ratings, or rank them within a couple slots. Rinne and S.Mason I would put at almost a tie based on what I have seen of them, although I know Mason has not looked as superhuman recently so that might cause some slippage.

Backstrom should be no lower than third...of course he's far and away my Hart vote if Minnesota manages to make the postseason.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I'd agree with most of those ratings, or rank them within a couple slots. Rinne and S.Mason I would put at almost a tie based on what I have seen of them, although I know Mason has not looked as superhuman recently so that might cause some slippage.

Backstrom should be no lower than third...of course he's far and away my Hart vote if Minnesota manages to make the postseason.

To be honest, I almost put Miller at 4th and Backstrom at 3rd, and if making the list again I possibly would. Both have been very impressive. Rinne could possibly be notched a bit lower, but I'd put him a touch above Mason, still.

[Doggy 130]

With Mason - playoffs.... easily.

Without - no chance, just like last year.

This is the same a last year's Hart winner, Ovechkin. Except his team didn't make it easily.

[Datsyerberger 279]

With Mason - playoffs.... easily.

Without - no chance, just like last year.

This is the same a last year's Hart winner, Ovechkin. Except his team didn't make it easily.

But with Rinne? Miller? Backstrom? Lu? Thomas? Vokoun? Could none of these other goalies have landed them in the playoffs?

[C-TownWing 0]

You're my hero for seeing past the hype, like me. However, unlike me, you had the stones to post it for all to see and ridicule. But they’d be dead wrong.

You pretty much hit it all in your post, but I just wanted to supplement a couple things. First off, why is everyone handing Mason the Calder? Even disregarding the very worthy skater candidates, Pekka Rinne’s put up nearly identical stats behind less talent (IMO) and also has his team positioned for an unexpected trip to the playoffs. He gets almost zero attention (especially compared to Mason), which is a shame.

Rinne (season): 24-11-4, 2.23, .922, 7 SO

Mason (season): 30-17-4, 2.22, .918, 9 SO

The one thing that nobody seems to mention: Mason hasn’t been all that great since the calendar hit 2009. In fact, he’s the second-best goalie…named Mason in the Central Division. Obviously, he had mono for a little of this, but hey, results are results. Besides, he hasn't improved on the overall number in the last month all that much (2.39, .916).

Steve (2009 only): 18-10-3, 2.56, .906, 4 SO

Chris (2009 only): 17-9-5, 2.04, .927, 4 SO

Being that I’m at work, I’m not going to go goalie-by-goalie for 2009, but it would be an absolute joke if someone with (Steve) Mason’s performance down the stretch ends up being a Vezina finalist.

[Dano33 41]

much hit it all in your post, but I just wanted to supplement a couple things. First off, why is everyone handing Mason the Calder? Even disregarding the very worthy skater candidates, Pekka Rinne’s put up nearly identical stats behind less talent (IMO) and also has his team positioned for an unexpected trip to the playoffs. He gets almost zero attention (especially compared to Mason), which is a shame.

Rinne (season): 24-11-4, 2.23, .922, 7 SO

Mason (season): 30-17-4, 2.22, .918, 9 SO

I think it is mainly because last year, without Rinne the Preds were a playoff team, and the Jackets were 13th in the west without Mason. Currently, the Jackets are 7 spots higher than last year, and the Preds have dropped out of a playoff spot. Can the Preds still get in? Of course, but the voters see Mason as a big difference maker and Rinne as a guy with good numbers.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Dano33

[Doggy 130]

I think it is mainly because last year, without Rinne the Preds were a playoff team, and the Jackets were 13th in the west without Mason. Currently, the Jackets are 7 spots higher than last year, and the Preds have dropped out of a playoff spot. Can the Preds still get in? Of course, but the voters see Mason as a big difference maker and Rinne as a guy with good numbers

This.

I think it's pretty valid hype when a 21-year old rookie carries a pretty average team into the playoffs right off the bat with nine shutouts. I think he's been the most valuable player to his team in the league. That's arguable, but the fact that it's even arguable says enough about what an amazing season this 21-year old goalie is having.

[Datsyerberger 279]

You're my hero for seeing past the hype, like me. However, unlike me, you had the stones to post it for all to see and ridicule. But they’d be dead wrong.

Boredom pushes me to great motivation at times XD

You pretty much hit it all in your post, but I just wanted to supplement a couple things. First off, why is everyone handing Mason the Calder? Even disregarding the very worthy skater candidates, Pekka Rinne’s put up nearly identical stats behind less talent (IMO) and also has his team positioned for an unexpected trip to the playoffs. He gets almost zero attention (especially compared to Mason), which is a shame.

I have a few words for you to consider:

Canadian

East

Columbus. Playoffs.

Canadian

East

East

Canadian

Shutout. GAA. Team stat. Media. Hype.

Canadian

[dat's sick 1,002]

I agree with most of the OP, except for the mention of Fleury.. yeah, lately he's been playing better, but he's been mostly terrible all year.

Put Lundqvist in there instead, who even though he's having his worst year since coming to the league is still carrying the Rangers.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I agree with most of the OP, except for the mention of Fleury.. yeah, lately he's been playing better, but he's been mostly terrible all year.

Put Lundqvist in there instead, who even though he's having his worst year since coming to the league is still carrying the Rangers.

Oh, you're right, I did completely forget Lundqvist. Yea, I'd stick him ahead of Fleury this year, and probably S. Mason and Luongo as well.

[C-TownWing 0]

Boredom pushes me to great motivation at times XD

I have a few words for you to consider:

Canadian

East

Columbus. Playoffs.

Canadian

East

East

Canadian

Shutout. GAA. Team stat. Media. Hype.

Canadian

I do see the anti-Rinne points, but at the same time, I see a lot of similarities. Both Rinne and Mason came in when the incumbent starter was failing, either due to injury or general sucktitude. Either team would've been completely screwed without these guys, and both have (on the whole) played outstanding, and both will probably lead their teams to the playoffs with almost identical stats. This isn't so much of a pro-Rinne argument I'm putting forward as much as it is a "hey, there should at least be a discussion here" argument.

It's a little harder to refute the "it's Columbus...in the playoffs" thing, but given my location, I see a decent number of their games. That's a pretty good hockey team with or without Steve Mason. You could sort of see this coming last year behind the last next big thing, Pascal LeClaire. They made it semi-interesting as far as the playoffs before faltering late. This team's been coming on for a couple years, really ever since Hitchcock arrived.

My contention is that Columbus makes the playoffs even with an average goalie. How do I know this? Because that's all Mason's been in 2009, and the Jackets are playing their best hockey, well, ever.

None of this is meant to bash on Steve Mason...he's been tremendous (overall). It's just that with most people and awards, mediocre in the second half takes you out of the running, regardless of what you did in December. For whatever reason, Mason's exempt.

[interminded 1]

Vokoun has my vote for the Vezina.

[Carman 387]

And people laugh at me when I think Rinne should get at least a hard look for Calder...

[CenterIce 83]

And people laugh at me when I think Rinne should get at least a hard look for Calder...

As was pointed out, Hitchcock has a defensive style. If you look back, a lot of the goalies that played for Columbus recently got a lot of shutouts. He is a good goalie, but he also benefits from Columbus' style.

[TheOwl 77]

Vokoun has my vote for the Vezina.

Well it looks like Florida is going to miss the play-offs. Mason or Rinne should get the Calder. But if you think about it, Columbus is in 5th right now, last year they sucked, Mason changed it all around. But if you look at stats alone, Rinne is equally as good as Mason, it's just that as a team, Columbus >> Nashville.

Thomas is probably going to get the Vezina. Even though he doesn't really deserve it. The Kipper should be a finalist, what goalie can play more games then he can? So what if he breaks down at times, the pressure on Kipper is immense compared to any other goalie.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

So if I had to rate these goalies performance-wise this year?

1. Thomas

2. Vokoun

3. Miller

4. Backstrom

5. Rinne

6. Smith

7. C. Mason

8. Hiller

9. Luongo

10. S. Mason

11. Fleury

I can only imagine the flaming having Steve Mason at 10 might incur some places, but consider this: He's one of 2 rookie goalies on the list, and of all the goalies in that list, he's the youngest by a considerable amount, and also has more starts than a decent number of them.

Top 10 NHL goalie in his first year, at 20. That's pretty damned impressive. I just don't think he should be christened as a top 3 Vezina finalist, yet.

Thoughts?

Woh. I strongly disagree with you here, but this post certainly isn't a flame.

You give everyone other than Steve Mason bonus points for their great numbers when they're on a strong defensive team, but throw that out the door for Mason? How can you reconcile the rankings you gave Backstrom and Thomas relative to Mason then? I read your post, but I still can't fathom why you put Thomas and Backstrom ahead of Mason when they're equally gifted with strong defensive schemes in front of them.

You strongly reward great goaltenders on horrible teams, but don't give that same credit to Mason? Mason is the only reason why the Jackets are 6th in the West. Why do you give Backstrom's performance so much credit when his team, a better team on paper, is out of the playoffs?

Lastly, I think your rankings fail to account for consistency. Miller's performance this season was not worth a placement in the top ten for the first half of the season, same goes for Fleury- he was retched for the first 2/3rds of the season.

Look at the teams these goalies are playing for. Rinne's team is exactly where we'd expect it to be in the standings based on their performance over the last few seasons. Hiller's team? Same deal except they're even worse off then we'd expect. Plus he's playing behind 2 Norris winners.

Really, only S. Mason, Vokoun and possibly Luongo are on teams that have played far above expectations.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I think it is mainly because last year, without Rinne the Preds were a playoff team, and the Jackets were 13th in the west without Mason. Currently, the Jackets are 7 spots higher than last year, and the Preds have dropped out of a playoff spot. Can the Preds still get in? Of course, but the voters see Mason as a big difference maker and Rinne as a guy with good numbers.

Quoted for truth.

Mason is by far the most important player on the Jackets.

No one's saying Rinne isn't impressive! But he happens to be playing great for a team that's sitting about the same placer they were last year. Mason's carried his team on his back half way up the standings.

[Doggy 130]

Mason just got his tenth shutout of the season over Calgary. All Hitchcock right?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Mason just got his tenth shutout of the season over Calgary. All Hitchcock right?

Of course!

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Steve Mason is a huge asset to my fantasy roster. That's all I have to say.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

I think (and I preface this by saying I see a LOT of CBJ games due to my location), that with Mason in goal the Jackets are actually playing defense with confidence.

They didn't have that even with LeClaire back there. While I'm sure most of the top goalies in the NHL could have done as well in the system, let's remember that in Late November when Leclaire and Norrena went down all they had was Mason and someone named Dan LaCosta as their goalies.

He stepped up to the plate and system or no he has gotten the job done. The scary part is he played very well for 3 weeks with ******* MONO and only started to fade in weeks 4 and 5 when he shouldn't have been playing at all.

That said, Nashville is truly a mediocre team that took advantage of a weaker part of their schedule to claw their way into contention and Rinne was right there the entire time. they probably don't do that without Rinne being there and being consistent for them.

The Calder is going to Steve Mason though simply due to the fact that Columbus is between 5 and 7 points out from a playoff spot as it stands right now.

Edited March 27, 2009 by BuckeyeWingsfan80

[I Red Wings I 40]

Wrong topic lol

Edited March 27, 2009 by I Red Wings I

[Datsyerberger 279]

You give everyone other than Steve Mason bonus points for their great numbers when they're on a strong defensive team, but throw that out the door for Mason? How can you reconcile the rankings you gave Backstrom and Thomas relative to Mason then? I read your post, but I still can't fathom why you put Thomas and Backstrom ahead of Mason when they're equally gifted with strong defensive schemes in front of them.

Minny and Boston both have really good defense, but.. Columbus's is better this year. Seriously, examining SA/G and shot quality, Columbus has really, really solid team defense this year, which is a usual for Hitchcock teams. I'm not discrediting Mason.. just pointing out that while he plays on the (albeit slightly, quite present) better defensive team, those two have better SV%s.. in Thomas's case, considerably so, and in Backstrom's case, with quite a few more GP.

One thing you'll notice is that quite a few of those teams are at least above average defensive teams: Rinne's, Steve Mason's, Thomas's, Backstrom's, Luongo's. For those on average or worse: Miller, Chris Mason, Smith, and Vokoun -- Smith in particular gets props for being a bright spot on a defensively god-awful team, and Chris Mason for helping hold up such a crippled team.

Also worth noting is that 3(!) of them are in the central.

Finally, it is worth noting that Mason IS one of the main reasons (if not THE reason) that team is in playoff contention... then again, the same could be be said for Rinne in Nashville, Miller in Buffalo, Mason in St Louis, Vokoun in Florida, and Backstrom in Minnesota (Smith is just boned). If Mason gets credit for that, then all of those guys should get (at least) the same amount.

Seriously guys, I'm putting a 20 year old rookie goalie in the top 10 goaltending performers of the year, AFTER taking excellent team defense and other goalie's SV% (relevant to SA/G and shot quality) into account. If that's not good enough for people, I guess Columbus might as well trade him now while he still has value.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Datsyerberger

[elriqo28 2]

Just looking to stir the pot here and see what others think. Keep in mind this isn't a Mason bash by any means, coming into the league and securing a position like he has at 20, all while putting up good numbers, is nothing to scoff at. However, he's starting to get mentioned as a Vezina candidate over some very worthy netminders.

A few things to consider here:

Ken Hitchcock coaches an amazingly effective defensive system. In fact, I believe Columbus is around #2 for least SA/G. Goaltenders seem to have an excellent track record on Hitchcock coached teams as well, including some that went on to be absolutely terrible on non-Hitchcock teams. Not only do his teams limit SA/G very well, but they also do a great job of limiting scoring chances.

Here are some other goaltenders to consider this year, in no particular order:

Tomas Vokoun -- .925 SV% on a defensively unspectacular Panthers team. Probably the most overlooked starter in the league. The guy is a consistently great goalie.

Pekka Rinne -- Worse team than C-Bus, higher SV% and near as many shutouts (team stat), though a few less games played. Also a rookie, like Mason.

Mike Smith -- Guy doesn't get near enough notice because he's on a s*** team. .916 SV%, 31.2 SA/G .. that's the 2nd highest SA/G in the league, and probably in the top 5 for shot quality as well.. and only .02% off from Mason. Being someone who watches a lot of TBL as well, I have to say this guy has been very impressive besides the stats.

Jonas Hiller -- Another guy beating out Mason in the SV% category, and also on one of the most penalized teams in the league.. thus doing a considerable amount of his workload on the PK. Again, a few less GP than Mason.

Ryan Miller -- Tons of Miller fans in the D, obviously.. again, higher SV%, defensively inferior team. Also plenty of starts to go to his name. This guy, imo, carries the Sabres more than Mason does the Jackets.

The "other" Mason -- .917 SV%, .01% shy of S. Mason, all while playing on a defensively inferior team.. and furthermore, one that has close to 500 games worth of injuries -- including top d-men, team captain, top 3 and top 6 forwards. This is the Mason who, in my opinion, should be getting more consideration this year.

Tim Thomas -- Even with Boston having great D, there's no denying how effective his Hasek-eqsue (as a Montreal fan in a fantasy league I play in put it) "Wacky Waiving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Goalie Style" has been.

Niklas (or is it Nicklas?) Backstrom -- As much as people like to argue the Minnesota defensive system, SA/G wise Columbus has been even better this year... and yet Backstrom leads Mason in SV%, with more starts and GP as well.

Roberto Luongo -- Equal SV% to Mason.

HM: Marc-Andre Fleury -- Falling on his ass aside, this guy has a great A game when his confidence is up. Still over .910 SV%, on a team that was missing their top 2 d-men for a considerable chunk of the year, not to mention some terrible floaters.

Note: I didn't put Brodeur on here because of very low GP, but in what he has done this year, he's been usual solid Brodeur.

So if I had to rate these goalies performance-wise this year?

1. Thomas

2. Vokoun

3. Miller

4. Backstrom

5. Rinne

6. Smith

7. C. Mason

8. Hiller

9. Luongo

10. S. Mason

11. Fleury

I can only imagine the flaming having Steve Mason at 10 might incur some places, but consider this: He's one of 2 rookie goalies on the list, and of all the goalies in that list, he's the youngest by a considerable amount, and also has more starts than a decent number of them.

Top 10 NHL goalie in his first year, at 20. That's pretty damned impressive. I just don't think he should be christened as a top 3 Vezina finalist, yet.

Thoughts?

good thing you're opinion doesn't count.