3/29 GDT: Predators 4 at Red Wings 3

[Doc Holiday 0]

On another note: Franzen is so cash. We are not getting rid of him.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Osgood was a career back up

Without concern to his play this season, which speaks for itself, this is only an accurate remark if you became a hockey fan four years ago. Which is fine in and of itself, but at least do your homework before making such declarations.

As far as the game's concerned, well...

ZzzZzzz wake me when the playoffs start.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[Electrophile 3,554]

Woohoo Wings lost! *fapfapOzziesucksfapfapfapjumpoffbandwagonwankwanksplat*

Now, realistically, the Wings are hard pressed to take #1 in the Conference now so should focus on their playoff game and possible #7 seeds who they will face.

And whoever said any goalie + this defense = fail was correct.

While I agree that taking the #1 seed is slowly drifting away, it can still happen. I'd like to see the Wings attack these last 6 games with some intensity. If anything else, it'll show that we're not meandering into the playoffs, rather we are diving right in. Even if we end up #2, if they turn their amps up to 11, I'll be more than satisfied with that finish.

I believe I was the one that mentioned the fact that whether Ozzie is in net or Conklin is, if the defense is s***ting the bed in front of them, we're going to lose regardless. Hell, Terry Sawchuk in front of this defense right now would be in trouble. I think that is really the bigger problem, rather than goaltending. An average goalie in front of above-average defense will come on top the majority of the time. An average goalie in front of below-average defense will be on the back-end of a loss more times than not. If the goaltending situation is what it is, meaning it's Ozzie/Conks or bust.....the defense really, really, really needs to pick up the slack. Nick's been a little off, but I don't know how much of that can be attributed to his elbow or the fact he's going to be 39 in a few weeks. I'd put more money on the elbow since I'm pretty sure there were rumors around the AS break that he'd need surgery on it in the off-season.

This team is in trouble on a couple different fronts, but they can be fixed before it becomes BIG trouble.

[Guest Shoreline]

Without concern to his play this season, which speaks for itself, this is only an accurate remark if you became a hockey fan four years ago. Which is fine in and of itself, but at least do your homework before making such declarations.

As far as the game's concerned, well...

ZzzZzzz wake me when the playoffs start.

Hopefully these whiners will be off the bandwagon by then.

[Electrophile 3,554]

On another note: Franzen is so cash. We are not getting rid of him.

Oh God yes. We have to keep him. I hope Kenny can work some magic and keep both him and Hossa, because they are just too valuable to let go.

[Guest Shoreline]

While I agree that taking the #1 seed is slowly drifting away, it can still happen. I'd like to see the Wings attack these last 6 games with some intensity. If anything else, it'll show that we're not meandering into the playoffs, rather we are diving right in. Even if we end up #2, if they turn their amps up to 11, I'll be more than satisfied with that finish.

I believe I was the one that mentioned the fact that whether Ozzie is in net or Conklin is, if the defense is s***ting the bed in front of them, we're going to lose regardless. Hell, Terry Sawchuk in front of this defense right now would be in trouble. I think that is really the bigger problem, rather than goaltending. An average goalie in front of above-average defense will come on top the majority of the time. An average goalie in front of below-average defense will be on the back-end of a loss more times than not. If the goaltending situation is what it is, meaning it's Ozzie/Conks or bust.....the defense really, really, really needs to pick up the slack. Nick's been a little off, but I don't know how much of that can be attributed to his elbow or the fact he's going to be 39 in a few weeks. I'd put more money on the elbow since I'm pretty sure there were rumors around the AS break that he'd need surgery on it in the off-season.

This team is in trouble on a couple different fronts, but they can be fixed before it becomes BIG trouble.

I really doubt this team is in much a position to supplant both Boston and San Jose who both hold edges (San Jose with 2 points and a game in hand, plus easier schedule / Boston with 1 point behind and 1 game in hand, and an easy schedule as well), and with half a dozen games left. At least, the play in the last month or so is indicative that they will coast through these last games too, likely win, oh, 3 or 4 of the last 6, and finish a well off #2 seed. It isn't like getting the #2 seed is that bad a situation, but I kinda think that people focusing on the President's Trophy right now are kinda doing wishful thinking more than anything. At this point just look ahead to the playoffs and let's hope the boys get their s*** together on defense or it's gonna be a long golf season. I do agree with your entire post, just am not as optimistic now with these recent developments that the Wings are gonna put in the needed effort when they haven't shown much of it at all recently.

By the way, one thing that must have went unnoticed was this last week Boston had a 5-day break between games. They played on Sunday the 22nd and their next game was Saturday the 28th. And this late in the season? What's up with that? Now they're rested for the playoff run.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Shoreline

[clutchngrab 12]

Without concern to his play this season, which speaks for itself, this is only an accurate remark if you became a hockey fan four years ago. Which is fine in and of itself, but at least do your homework before making such declarations.

As far as the game's concerned, well...

ZzzZzzz wake me when the playoffs start.

lol. Don't forget to wake up cause you might miss em.

[clutchngrab 12]

I really doubt this team is in much a position to supplant both Boston and San Jose who both hold edges (San Jose with 2 points and a game in hand, plus easier schedule / Boston with 1 point behind and 1 game in hand, and an easy schedule as well), and with half a dozen games left. At least, the play in the last month or so is indicative that they will coast through these last games too, likely win, oh, 3 or 4 of the last 6, and finish a well off #2 seed. It isn't like getting the #2 seed is that bad a situation, but I kinda think that people focusing on the President's Trophy right now are kinda doing wishful thinking more than anything. At this point just look ahead to the playoffs and let's hope the boys get their s*** together on defense or it's gonna be a long golf season. I do agree with your entire post, just am not as optimistic now with these recent developments that the Wings are gonna put in the needed effort when they haven't shown much of it at all recently.

By the way, one thing that must have went unnoticed was this last week Boston had a 5-day break between games. They played on Sunday the 22nd and their next game was Saturday the 28th. And this late in the season? What's up with that? Now they're rested for the playoff run.

who cares. It's time to be concerned about playing good hockey.

[clutchngrab 12]

Then why are you here?

Because you don't understand my post.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I really doubt this team is in much a position to supplant both Boston and San Jose who both hold edges (San Jose with 2 points and a game in hand, plus easier schedule / Boston with 1 point behind and 1 game in hand, and an easy schedule as well), and with half a dozen games left. At least, the play in the last month or so is indicative that they will coast through these last games too, likely win, oh, 3 or 4 of the last 6, and finish a well off #2 seed. It isn't like getting the #2 seed is that bad a situation, but I kinda think that people focusing on the President's Trophy right now are kinda doing wishful thinking more than anything. At this point just look ahead to the playoffs and let's hope the boys get their s*** together on defense or it's gonna be a long golf season. I do agree with your entire post, just am not as optimistic now with these recent developments that the Wings are gonna put in the needed effort when they haven't shown much of it at all recently.

The seeding issue is a legitimate one if you believe the match ups favor the number one seed. I'm not so sure about that, but match ups are important nonetheless. It's upsetting, but not at all unforeseen, that they would drop the ball like this given how rarely they've seen fit to grace us with a 60 minute effort, but what's done is done. I don't think the team's nearly as bad as they've been showing this year, and when they've risen to the occasion against "worthy" foes their ability is evident. It's hard to ignore all the dicking around and nonsense but at the end of the day that gives me some peace of mind.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[Guest Shoreline]

who cares. It's time to be concerned about playing good hockey.

Who cares? Reading cares.

I really doubt this team is in much a position to supplant both Boston and San Jose who both hold edges (San Jose with 2 points and a game in hand, plus easier schedule / Boston with 1 point behind and 1 game in hand, and an easy schedule as well), and with half a dozen games left. At least, the play in the last month or so is indicative that they will coast through these last games too, likely win, oh, 3 or 4 of the last 6, and finish a well off #2 seed. It isn't like getting the #2 seed is that bad a situation, but I kinda think that people focusing on the President's Trophy right now are kinda doing wishful thinking more than anything. At this point just look ahead to the playoffs and let's hope the boys get their s*** together on defense or it's gonna be a long golf season. I do agree with your entire post, just am not as optimistic now with these recent developments that the Wings are gonna put in the needed effort when they haven't shown much of it at all recently.

By the way, one thing that must have went unnoticed was this last week Boston had a 5-day break between games. They played on Sunday the 22nd and their next game was Saturday the 28th. And this late in the season? What's up with that? Now they're rested for the playoff run.

[Stolsanov 0]

One play stands out to me more than anything in this game. Kopecky Skating a foot in-front of Ericsson when he was carrying the puck through the neutral zone and causing Ericsson to turn the puck over and then resulting to Wards goal. I honestly think Osgood made quite a few good saves throughout the game. The first goal he could have stopped but where was the defense? They let that dude skate right past Them. The 2nd was a just a big crowd and he couldn't see the puck. The 3rd was a turnover from Stuart i believe, and a perfectly placed one timer for the guy at the side of the net. Not a whole lot of goalies will stop a perfect setup one timer and when there's no one even close to guarding him. Well the 4th he simply should have had.. but got roasted. But i honestly think Babcock needs to quit messing with lines. We all know ZDH is the best line. Filpulla Hossa and Franzen should be their 2nd line.

[Guest Shoreline]

One play stands out to me more than anything in this game. Kopecky Skating a foot in-front of Ericsson when he was carrying the puck through the neutral zone and causing Ericsson to turn the puck over and then resulting to Wards goal. I honestly think Osgood made quite a few good saves throughout the game. The first goal he could have stopped but where was the defense? They let that dude skate right past Them. The 2nd was a just a big crowd and he couldn't see the puck. The 3rd was a turnover from Stuart i believe, and a perfectly placed one timer for the guy at the side of the net. Not a whole lot of goalies will stop a perfect setup one timer and when there's no one even close to guarding him. Well the 4th he simply should have had.. but got roasted. But i honestly think Babcock needs to quit messing with lines. We all know ZDH is the best line. Filpulla Hossa and Franzen should be their 2nd line.

There have been a lot of guys hurt or in and out of the lineup, and I'm under the impression there's likely other guys hurt that they aren't admitting to, for obvious reasons. But yeah, Ozzie saved the team's ass many times over and couldn't help but let one in, then made his own mistakes and wasn't bailed out, so all one can do is shrug their shoulders or shake their head in dismay at the way this team has been covering defensively and hanging the goalies out to dry.

[clutchngrab 12]

Who cares? Reading cares.

My point was I don't give that much of a crap as to whether we finish 1 or 2 as to whether this team seems ready to approach the post-season. When this team plays in the manner of which the should be capable of, then success will come. In some ways this team is like 2002 - they have to be pushed to perform. If you remember that 2002 team sucked in the stretch as well. I'm cool with that to a point.... However there is a different wrinkle this year in that the goalie does not seem to have anyones confidence.

Edited March 30, 2009 by clutchngrab

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

The 3rd was a turnover from Stuart i believe, and a perfectly placed one timer for the guy at the side of the net. Not a whole lot of goalies will stop a perfect setup one timer and when there's no one even close to guarding him.

I didn't like any part of the third goal. Blindly throwing the puck up the middle by Stuart, and then Ozzie with the five hole shot. It was a shame too, he read the play, got over with plenty of time, and let it get by anyways. I'd say there are plenty of goalies who would have left a yawning cage for Smithson to slam it into, but it's disappointing because Chris Osgood can make that save and he didn't.

[Lazerbeam 13]

Babcock, for whatever reason, seems intent on squashing a square peg into a round hole and continues to force feed us and his team a steady stream of Osgood mediocrity. Maybe he is a genius and knows something that isn't as painfully obvious as the obvious. I don't see it. I see a mediocre goalie with no drive and no passion. On the bench, I see a young goalie with better stats, more confidence and something to prove. But what do I know?

I can only hope that it's some master plan to dangle a s***ty goalie out for Conference rivals to key up on, only to pull a bait and switch just before playoffs and f*** everyone up. That seems a little far fetched... no?

Good Post!!!

[Guest Shoreline]

My point was I don't give that much of a crap as to whether we finish 1 or 2 as to whether this team seems ready to approach the post-season. When this team plays in the manner of which the should be capable of, then success will come. In some ways this team is like 2002 - they have to be pushed to perform. If you remember that 2002 team sucked in the stretch as well. I'm cool with that to a point.... However there is a different wrinkle this year in that the goalie has no-ones confidence.

I agree, I was just confused as to why you'd say who cares when clearly I also said the same thing you did. And again, I agree, and you're absolutely right. Even though, unlike the 02/08 playoff team, this one likely won't be going in as the #1 seed /Pres trophy winner, the Wings are still favorites, just need to start playing like cup defenders when it's going to matter most.

[Electrophile 3,554]

I agree, I was just confused as to why you'd say who cares when clearly I also said the same thing you did. And again, I agree, and you're absolutely right. Even though, unlike the 02/08 playoff team, this one likely won't be going in as the #1 seed /Pres trophy winner, the Wings are still favorites, just need to start playing like cup defenders when it's going to matter most.

Do you think the team as presently constructed can do that? Assuming the roster doesn't change at all between now and then, aside from Babcock potentially choosing Conks over Ozzie to start in goal.

I think they can, we've seen it from them before. This team is not that fundamentally different than last year's squad.

[gcom007 1,465]

This game was really a rough one to watch us lose. Like some have said, Osgood made some solid saves throughout the night but struggled when not getting help from the D. While it'd be nice to see a save or two out of that, I still think the bigger question is why on earth is our D still this bad???????? Wholistically speaking, as in team D.

What's absolutely insane to me is that so much of what is happening boils down to stupid mental mistakes. We're not talking a lack of hustle or just getting plain beat, we're talking look before you pass. Don't cut guys off. Cover the net. These are really, really, really simple things. If you can't take care of that, no goalie will save us and only our offense might have a chance of saving us and I'm sure not too geeked on it having too.

Here's a few observations...

-looking at the whole season, it's fair to say that Osgood has shown a lot of improvement in the last month. He's had some great games and even on nights like tonight came up with some big saves. But he certainly needs to keep improving...

-the offense while hardly bad seems to be struggling a bit more with putting the puck in the net lately, they've been inconsistent to say the least

-the defense continues to utterly flounder. I feel they've been the biggest problem all season and they continue to prove this. The level of sloppiness is just unbelievable. I just don't know where they get off making the stupid plays they do.

-in terms of Babcock, the only thing I'm thinking is that Bowman was coach, just about every defensemen sans Lidstrom would've spent a few games in the press box by now to think about their game. And I think you would've seen a fast improvement. Considering the simple mental nature of so many of these mistakes and the consistency in which they occur, you've got to wonder why their hasn't been more in terms of "punishment" for guys like Rafalski, Stuart and Kronwall. No goalie and no amount of goals scored is going to keep us going long enough to win a Cup if they keep up that kind of play. It won't happen.

I still think the #1 concern heading into the playoffs is defense. I'm one of the few who still has plenty of faith in Osgood, but more so, even if we had a Robert Luongo on his A-Game, with the way our D has played, we're not going to win a Cup let alone even make it to the finals.

It's as simple as this: If the forwards score and the D gets their game together, we're fine with Osgood even if he only improves marginally heading into the playoffs.

If the D doesn't get their game together, we're done in the semi's most likely at best.

It's all going to come down to the D.

[Electrophile 3,554]

This game was really a rough one to watch us lose. Like some have said, Osgood made some solid saves throughout the night but struggled when not getting help from the D. While it'd be nice to see a save or two out of that, I still think the bigger question is why on earth is our D still this bad???????? Wholistically speaking, as in team D.

What's absolutely insane to me is that so much of what is happening boils down to stupid mental mistakes. We're not talking a lack of hustle or just getting plain beat, we're talking look before you pass. Don't cut guys off. Cover the net. These are really, really, really simple things. If you can't take care of that, no goalie will save us and only our offense might have a chance of saving us and I'm sure not too geeked on it having too.

Here's a few observations...

-looking at the whole season, it's fair to say that Osgood has shown a lot of improvement in the last month. He's had some great games and even on nights like tonight came up with some big saves. But he certainly needs to keep improving...

-the offense while hardly bad seems to be struggling a bit more with putting the puck in the net lately, they've been inconsistent to say the least

-the defense continues to utterly flounder. I feel they've been the biggest problem all season and they continue to prove this. The level of sloppiness is just unbelievable. I just don't know where they get off making the stupid plays they do.

-in terms of Babcock, the only thing I'm thinking is that Bowman was coach, just about every defensemen sans Lidstrom would've spent a few games in the press box by now to think about their game. And I think you would've seen a fast improvement. Considering the simple mental nature of so many of these mistakes and the consistency in which they occur, you've got to wonder why their hasn't been more in terms of "punishment" for guys like Rafalski, Stuart and Kronwall. No goalie and no amount of goals scored is going to keep us going long enough to win a Cup if they keep up that kind of play. It won't happen.

I still think the #1 concern heading into the playoffs is defense. I'm one of the few who still has plenty of faith in Osgood, but more so, even if we had a Robert Luongo on his A-Game, with the way our D has played, we're not going to win a Cup let alone even make it to the finals.

It's as simple as this: If the forwards score and the D gets their game together, we're fine with Osgood even if he only improves marginally heading into the playoffs.

If the D doesn't get their game together, we're done in the semi's most likely at best.

It's all going to come down to the D.

Completely agree and excellent post.

[gcom007 1,465]

Do you think the team as presently constructed can do that? Assuming the roster doesn't change at all between now and then, aside from Babcock potentially choosing Conks over Ozzie to start in goal.

I think they can, we've seen it from them before. This team is not that fundamentally different than last year's squad.

My hope is that Kronwall can up his game like he did last year and Lids goes all out once it matters. I think he's holding back now with some injury issues, but come playoffs, the Yzerman-effect will take over and he'll be on his A-game. I have no doubt. But again, Kronwall's a wildcard. Stuart as well. Those two in particular are responsible for so many stupid plays this year that have lead to goals or scoring chances. It's unbelievable. It's almost a given that they're going to make 4-5 blundering passes or clears a game not to mention failing to even consider covering guys at the net.

I thought last year that Stuart seemed like a guy who didn't really mind playing for the Wings, but wasn't exactly thrilled about it either. Usually guys come here and they're extatic. He never gave off that vibe and you heard all the stories about the family issues. I can't help but wonder if he has any regrets about signing on for 4-years. Maybe it's been harder than he thought. Maybe his family is unhappy. Who knows? The bottom line is his head is not in the game and he's not the same guy he was last year for us at this point. Maybe he'll turn it on in the playoffs, but part of me wouldn't be surprised if he requested a trade in the off-season either. Something is obviously not right.

Kronwall though??? Ugh...I've never been too high on him to be honest. I don't dislike him and I'm not pissed about the money. Whatever. I just thought he always seemed a little iffy out there. He's capable of turning it up and certainly did last year. Again, I just hope he can do it again.

If the D gets going, we're fine. We're cruising, in fact.

[Guest Shoreline]

Do you think the team as presently constructed can do that? Assuming the roster doesn't change at all between now and then, aside from Babcock potentially choosing Conks over Ozzie to start in goal.

I think they can, we've seen it from them before. This team is not that fundamentally different than last year's squad.

Of course I think they can. We've seen how this team has smashed some of the best opponents in the league. But it's all a matter of which Wings team shows up in the playoffs. We've got 2 and a half, almost three weeks til we find out.

[Superman54 91]

I think people go overboard on the whole judging thing as soon as you say something wrong about Ozzie. I have always liked Ozzie, and always will, but this kind of play from him won't get us anywhere in the playoffs. Sure the defense has had some piss poor efforts throughout the year, but yet they usually seem to be able to shut most teams down with 25 shots or fewer. Maybe its Quality over Quantity when saying that, but when the defense screws up its the goalie's job to bail him out. Osgood has had trouble the entire year when finding his groove. He seems to lack emotion in his game, when he is asked about his mistakes he fails to address issues and blames it on the "bad bounces" or "unlucky breaks". Defense hasn't been up to standards, both have been problems for Detroit. It's just hard to see us giving Ozzie so many chances when its been proven the team plays better when they have Conklin backing them up.

[Holmstrom96 347]

I'm dissapointed in Chelios for bad penalties. The guy spent more time in the box than he did on the ice. Osgood disapointed too. I don't expect Osgood to be a miracle goalie... He made some great saves and bailed out the defence a couple times, but then he let some head-scratchers by.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I didn't like any part of the third goal. Blindly throwing the puck up the middle by Stuart, and then Ozzie with the five hole shot. It was a shame too, he read the play, got over with plenty of time, and let it get by anyways. I'd say there are plenty of goalies who would have left a yawning cage for Smithson to slam it into, but it's disappointing because Chris Osgood can make that save and he didn't.

What confuses me is I didn't see hardly any opening in the fivehole and somehow it snuck under. I'm less angry at Osgood for letting it in than I am confused for it being able to make it right under his right pad.

Seriously, how did that happen?