Pick 2 Players.

[TheOwl 77]

Datysuk and Hasek. Hasek in his prime years 1994-2001 was better then Roy, Brodeur, anyone you can name.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Ovechkin

Lidstrom

Grapes

I see what you did there. Well played.

[MidMichSteve 1,115]

Datysuk and Hasek. Hasek in his prime years 1994-2001 was better then Roy, Brodeur, anyone you can name.

It was a tossup between Roy and Hasek for me. The only reason I picked Roy was because he had more success in the playoffs.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

I can't believe only one freaking person has picked Wayne Gretzky. How can he not be the obvious choice? Yeah Yzerman was a great leader, but as far as the best, Gretzky is way above Stevie. Nobody ever dominated any sport the way he did hockey. People are still dissing him because he complained to the refs in that game against the Wings, as coach for Coyotes.

As far as current players, Ovechkin would get my pick, simply because Lidstrom only has a few years left at most.

For current Wings players, I'd take Datsyuk.

For coach I'd take Mike Keenan. At least he knew how to build tough teams full of goons.

[Doggy 130]

For coach I'd take Mike Keenan. At least he knew how to build tough teams full of goons.

Lol, no he didn't. What team did he do this with GMR? Because the opposite is probably more true.

[HomeNugget 2]

I'd take Lidstrom from this year's team and Gordie Howe all time. Gordie Howe, in my opinion, is the only choice for an all time player. A lot of players were elite, but only one player was elite for 30 years.

I don't really know too much about coaches, but Al Arbour would probably be my choice since I can't pick Scotty Bowman.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I'd take Lidstrom from this year's team and Gordie Howe all time. Gordie Howe, in my opinion, is the only choice for an all time player. A lot of players were elite, but only one player was elite for 30 years.

I don't really know too much about coaches, but Al Arbour would probably be my choice since I can't pick Scotty Bowman.

Ooh, two long lasting, low injury guys who have basically had 20 year primes. Well played, well played.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Lol, no he didn't. What team did he do this with GMR? Because the opposite is probably more true.

The 94 Rangers had Joey Kocur, Jay Wells, Jeff Beukeboom and Nick Kypreos. That's a pretty tough team, and most of those guys played in the playoffs.

Those Blackhawks teams he coached in the early 90's were also tough. Both Mike Peluso and Stu Grimson played regularly for them in the playoffs. "Crazy" Dave Manson was also playing for him back then from what I remember.

I shouldn't even have to explain those Flyer teams in the 80's, but I will anyway. Dave Brown, Ed Hospodar, Glen Cochrane, Rich Tocchet, Scott Mellanby, and many others.

In Vancouver, he had Brashear and Odjick playing together. I believe Enrico Ciccone also had a stint with that team.

His Blues teams in the 90's had Tony Twist, Kelly Chase, Shayne Corson, Basil McRae.

Finally, in Florida he had Peter Worrell, Paul Laus, and you guessed it, "THE PAIN TRAIN"

I'm guessing hockey wasn't being broadcasted in Australia back then, because those are some tough lineups that I've included, and many more gritty players that I left out, which dropped the gloves from time to time, but weren't really known as heavies or enforcers.

Edited April 3, 2009 by GMRwings1983

[Doggy 130]

The 94 Rangers had Joey Kocur, Jay Wells, Jeff Beukeboom and Nick Kypreos. That's a pretty tough team, and most of those guys played in the playoffs.

Those Blackhawks teams he coached in the early 90's were also tough. Both Mike Peluso and Stu Grimson played regularly for them in the playoffs. "Crazy" Dave Manson was also playing for him back then from what I remember.

I shouldn't even have to explain those Flyer teams in the 80's, but I will anyway. Dave Brown, Ed Hospodar, Glen Cochrane, Rich Tocchet, Scott Mellanby, and many others.

In Vancouver, he had Brashear and Odjick playing together. I believe Enrico Ciccone also had a stint with that team.

His Blues teams in the 90's had Tony Twist, Kelly Chase, Shayne Corson, Basil McRae.

Finally, in Florida he had Peter Worrell, Paul Laus, and you guessed it, "THE PAIN TRAIN"

I'm guessing hockey wasn't being broadcasted in Australia back then, because those are some tough lineups that I've included, and many more gritty players that I left out, which dropped the gloves from time to time, but weren't really known as heavies or enforcers.

He built zero of those teams. You shouldn't explain the Flyers. Their tough culture had been around since 72. That team was built by Keith Allen. You really should know this.

Also, in Chicago when he was actually a GM he got rid of more tough guys than he brought in. How can you be such a fight fan and think MIKE KEENAN built the Broad Street Bullies?

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

He built zero of those teams. You shouldn't explain the Flyers. Their tough culture had been around since 72. That team was built by Keith Allen. You really should know this.

Also, in Chicago when he was actually a GM he got rid of more tough guys than he brought in. How can you be such a fight fan and think MIKE KEENAN built the Broad Street Bullies?

It doesn't matter what was in place when he arrived. He kept those guys around and played them in the playoffs every place he coached. If he didn't like those guys or that style of hockey, he would have gotten rid of the goons. That's the kind of imposing personality that he had.

His love for fighters is actually well known amongst fight circles as far as coaches who love enforcers go. I didn't think anyone would debate this until I saw your surprising post.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

Scott Stevens

Rocket Richard

(How's that for a nasty duo?)

Scott Neidermayer

Alex Ovechkin

[Doggy 130]

It doesn't matter what was in place when he arrived. He kept those guys around and played them in the playoffs every place he coached. If he didn't like those guys or that style of hockey, he would have gotten rid of the goons. That's the kind of imposing personality that he had.

His love for fighters is actually well known amongst fight circles as far as coaches who love enforcers go. I didn't think anyone would debate this until I saw your surprising post.

I'll keep my argument simple. GM's build teams. Not coaches. There are instances where coaches have a major say, but in Philadelphia, Keenan did not. Your compelling evidence from "fight circles" notwithstanding, your statement was far from true. That's all I'm saying. Brian Burke and Bobby Clarke built tough teams. As did former-Wing, Keith Allen.

Hockey history, dude.

[jjd06e 10]

Konstantinov

Stevens

Id just try to knock out every player on the other team with huge hits.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

I'll keep my argument simple. GM's build teams. Not coaches. There are instances where coaches have a major say, but in Philadelphia, Keenan did not. Your compelling evidence from "fight circles" notwithstanding, your statement was far from true. That's all I'm saying. Brian Burke and Bobby Clarke built tough teams. As did former-Wing, Keith Allen.

Hockey history, dude.

So you're telling me that even though every team he coached had numerous tough guys, he had nothing to do with it? Don't you think there's too much evidence against your case here. How many coaches have coached more tough guys than Keenan has? I can't think of anyone. The guy loved toughness and grit, and wasn't a big fan of European players. What does that suggest to you when you combine it with the rosters that he's coached?

[Doggy 130]

So you're telling me that even though every team he coached had numerous tough guys, he had nothing to do with it? Don't you think there's too much evidence against your case here. How many coaches have coached more tough guys than Keenan has? I can't think of anyone. The guy loved toughness and grit, and wasn't a big fan of European players. What does that suggest to you when you combine it with the rosters that he's coached?

He went to teams with tough guys.

How is that the same as building them?

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

He went to teams with tough guys.

How is that the same as building them?

I didn't say that he built all his teams (although he was a GM in St. Louis) I said that he kept those enforcers on the roster and played them regularly. I've already explained that if he didn't love tough guys, he wouldn't have played them so damn much.

I could also argue that he went to teams with lots of toughness because that's the style of hockey that he preferred, as opposed to coming to teams that were less gritty.

[Doggy 130]

I didn't say that he built all his teams (although he was a GM in St. Louis) I said that he kept those enforcers on the roster and played them regularly. I've already explained that if he didn't love tough guys, he wouldn't have played them so damn much.

I could also argue that he went to teams with lots of toughness because that's the style of hockey that he preferred, as opposed to coming to teams that were less gritty.

Sigh. So you agree with me then. I never said he didn't like tough guys. I said he never built a tough team. He was always a hopeless GM anyway.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Sigh. So you agree with me then. I never said he didn't like tough guys. I said he never built a tough team. He was always a hopeless GM anyway.

Just a semantics problem, I guess with what "build" means. I do think, however, that coaches have a big role with building a team, and I'm sure the GM's he worked with were heavily influenced by his style of hockey coaching.

[uk_redwing 495]

All-Time

Probert

Yzerman

-Cherry

Current

Datsyuk

Stastny

-Cherry could still get the job done

[Doggy 130]

Just a semantics problem, I guess with what "build" means. I do think, however, that coaches have a big role with building a team, and I'm sure the GM's he worked with were heavily influenced by his style of hockey coaching.

Well as I said, the one truly tough team he had, the Flyers, had nothing to do with him. This is a fact. They's been the Broad St. Bullies a decade before he came along. Guys like Tocchet, Brown, Carson, Clarke, etc. were already a part of their system. He should get zero credit for putting that great team together.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I can't believe only one freaking person has picked Wayne Gretzky. How can he not be the obvious choice? Yeah Yzerman was a great leader, but as far as the best, Gretzky is way above Stevie. Nobody ever dominated any sport the way he did hockey. People are still dissing him because he complained to the refs in that game against the Wings, as coach for Coyotes.

I actually made a very good argument for why I chose Yzerman as opposed to a guy like Gretzky or Lemieux. Believe me- I considered both of them. Yzerman had a greater long term impact on a single franchise than Gretzky had on any of his 4 teams. As far as the Yzerman level of skill vs Gretzky level of skill- they were both super high end players, yeah- Gretzky had an entire extra gear in his goal scoring engine, but Yzerman had a far, far greater positive impact on the franchise that drafted him- his legacy in that respect is still ongoing. No one is crazy enough to argue against choosing Gretzky based on skill! I just happen to hold more admiration for Yzerman. How couldn't I after watching Yzerman in the 2001-2002 season (especially in the Olympics and playoffs)?

Edit: (Torry) Spelling

Edited April 3, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Well as I said, the one truly tough team he had, the Flyers, had nothing to do with him. This is a fact. They's been the Broad St. Bullies a decade before he came along. Guys like Tocchet, Brown, Carson, Clarke, etc. were already a part of their system. He should get zero credit for putting that great team together.

He didn't design or assemble them, but he did encourage and enable their ape-s*** crazy hard-ass play.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Datsyuk

Stastny

-Cherry could still get the job done

"Take that damn visor off you Russian bastard!"

"Nyet! I trust mine eyes to Dr. Rammani, not angry little man in plaid jacket!"

Edit: Red Occctobbber

Edited April 3, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[55fan 5,133]

"Take that damn visor off you Russian bastard!"

"Nyet! I trust mine eyes to Dr. Rammani, not angry little man in plaid jacket!"

Edit: Red Occctobbber

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I actually made a very good argument for why I chose Yzerman as opposed to a guy like Gretzky or Lemieux. Believe me- I considered both of them. Yzerman had a greater long term impact on a single franchise than Gretzky had on any of his 4 teams.

A few things. For one, Yzerman does have the advantage of being with the Wings for his entire career, whereas the Oil traded Gretzky for cash, so that doesn't reflect poorly on him. His impact in LA was significant, but that was never a strong hockey market anyways so in time that faded -- unlike Detroit, which is both a strong hockey market and still fresh off the Yzerman era. By the time he left LA he was getting older and his skills were diminishing (as they had also been post-Suter hit), so they didn't really get Grade-A Gretzky in those places.

I realize it's a whole lotta coulda woulda shoulda, but if Wayneo had been allowed to stay in Edmonton for the balance of his career I think he'd be even more of a legend than he is now and his so-called long term impact on that club would've been as strong as Steve's is with Detroit.