Datsyuk

[Dano33 41]

And none of those people seem to notice when Crosby has games where he's got 2 goals and is a -4. I'll take Datsyuk with 1 goal and a +4 over that Crosby any day (for reference the game in question happened in the last week of this season). I'm not singling out Crosby here- Malkin and Ovechkin have games like that too. I'm just pointing out that goals and assists only tell part of the story.

Plus, as others have calculated (someone on HFBoard?)- if you take Dats off the PK and throw him some more even strength and PP time like all three players above him in points had and the numbers slide up for Dats.

By no means am I defending Crosby, or anyone else, but this argument is horrible. That's the only time it happened and his team won the game. Crosby and the others you mentioned are absolute monsters on the offensive side, and there's no denying that. Would I rather have Dtasyuk? Yes. But I wouldn't be too angry if i had to settle for Crosby.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Dano33

[clutchngrab 12]

Dats is quickly becoming my favortie Wing of all time.

He is the embodiment of a hockey player.

He plays all areas of the game well. He is amazing.

I cant say enough about him.

I didnt see Gordy's hay day, but I imagine it couldnt be much better than what we are seeing in Pavel.

Different times, so it hard to comapre. Dats is tough, no doubt - but the Howe elbow was legendary. No one talks about a PV hatrick now do they ...

Edited April 19, 2009 by clutchngrab

[titanium2 867]

A pony???? Though I'm sure that the many females on this board like to hear Pav speak like this.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090418/SP...0423/1128/rss16

Datsyuk got into a scrum after Antoine Vermette went hard to the Wings' net late in the second period.

They met up again in the third period, this time when Datsyuk went to the Blue Jackets' net.

Vermette ended up jumping on Datsyuk from behind.

"He just used me like pony," Datsyuk said. "He was on top of me.

"I don't like being the pony. I want to be on top."

[Kira 451]

Oh, that has such connotations...wash my mind out with soap for thinking them...

[FREE REDWINGS 0]

Dats is good at hockey and stuff

[thedisappearer 291]

By no means am I defending Crosby, or anyone else, but this argument is horrible. That's the only time it happened and his team won the game. Crosby and the others you mentioned are absolute monsters on the offensive side, and there's no denying that. Would I rather have Dtasyuk? Yes. But I wouldn't be too angry if i had to settle for Crosby.

Crosby hasn't had a two goal game this post season, so I assume he's talking regular season. So after your first sentence, you went down hill quickly.

Not to speak for him, but I think he realizes Crosby is an offensive force. His point is literally EVERYTHING else.

[EuroTwin 240]

A pony???? Though I'm sure that the many females on this board like to hear Pav speak like this.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090418/SP...0423/1128/rss16

Datsyuk got into a scrum after Antoine Vermette went hard to the Wings' net late in the second period.

They met up again in the third period, this time when Datsyuk went to the Blue Jackets' net.

Vermette ended up jumping on Datsyuk from behind.

"He just used me like pony," Datsyuk said. "He was on top of me.

"I don't like being the pony. I want to be on top."

Oh my Pavel... That sounds fine to me...

*clears throat* Uhh, what were we talking about...?

[smitty76 0]

Oh, that has such connotations...wash my mind out with soap for thinking them...

Free, he is the best in the game right now.. How about Osgood.. Frank is happy

[Dano33 41]

Crosby hasn't had a two goal game this post season, so I assume he's talking regular season. So after your first sentence, you went down hill quickly.

Not to speak for him, but I think he realizes Crosby is an offensive force. His point is literally EVERYTHING else.

One of us is missing something here, i dunno if it is you or me. I know which game he is talking about, it was a regular season game against Tampa which Pit won 6-4. I guess its possible i didn't understand his point, but whatever.

[thedisappearer 291]

One of us is missing something here, i dunno if it is you or me. I know which game he is talking about, it was a regular season game against Tampa which Pit won 6-4. I guess its possible i didn't understand his point, but whatever.

Ok. It that his only 2g, -4 night? I dunno, just asking.

Even so, that doesn't change the overall point- Dats is well known to play well both ways, in a fashion that does not light up the scoresheet. Crosby... isn't.

Wait, how could he be 2g -4, unless he scored to PP goals and was on the ice for all 4 TB goals?

*ETA* and all 4 TB goals were even strength? Hell, that makes the point right there, just happening once.

Edited April 19, 2009 by thedisappearer

[Dano33 41]

Ok. It that his only 2g, -4 night? I dunno, just asking.

Even so, that doesn't change the overall point- Dats is well known to play well both ways, in a fashion that does not light up the scoresheet. Crosby... isn't.

Wait, how could he be 2g -4, unless he scored to PP goals and was on the ice for all 4 TB goals?

*ETA* and all 4 TB goals were even strength? Hell, that makes the point right there, just happening once.

The thing is, +/- is an unrealiable stat, especially when looking at individual games. Dats ended the year +34, a good number. But there were two games this year where he was -3, his last 3 regular season games he recorded 0 points and a -4. Having one bad game does not make someone bad defensively. Crosby is no Datsyuk when it comes to defense, not even close, but he gets the job done.

I guess what i took from his argument was that he took one game as a sample for Crosby and compared it to the way Datsyuk plays on most nights. Seems a bit off to me.

[thedisappearer 291]

The thing is, +/- is an unrealiable stat, especially when looking at individual games. Dats ended the year +34, a good number. But there were two games this year where he was -3, his last 3 regular season games he recorded 0 points and a -4. Having one bad game does not make someone bad defensively. Crosby is no Datsyuk when it comes to defense, not even close, but he gets the job done.

I guess what i took from his argument was that he took one game as a sample for Crosby and compared it to the way Datsyuk plays on most nights. Seems a bit off to me.

Ok, whatever. But if you score two goals but are also on the ice for 4 even strength goals by the other team, there seems to be a disconnect between scoring and every other aspect of the sport. Yeah, it happening once can be a statistical anomaly. Sure. I do know Crosby has never won a Selke. Dats has. So I see more of his well roundedness.

I admit bashing Crosby is old. But when a lot of people here think he the best in the league but can't get mainstream media to pay any attention, yes, we pay more attention to the person appointed "over" us.

+/- is a bad stat... in short periods. It allows for these anomaly games. So let's look over the last few years.

Dats wins. Ok, thanks for playing. Dats does EVERYTHING. Besides fighting, he literally does everything. You can't say that abut Crosby. And if Crosby spent time doing everything else, he wouldn't score like he does.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ok, whatever. But if you score two goals but are also on the ice for 4 even strength goals by the other team, there seems to be a disconnect between scoring and every other aspect of the sport. Yeah, it happening once can be a statistical anomaly. Sure. I do know Crosby has never won a Selke. Dats has. So I see more of his well roundedness.

I admit bashing Crosby is old. But when a lot of people here think he the best in the league but can't get mainstream media to pay any attention, yes, we pay more attention to the person appointed "over" us.

+/- is a bad stat... in short periods. It allows for these anomaly games. So let's look over the last few years.

Dats wins. Ok, thanks for playing. Dats does EVERYTHING. Besides fighting, he literally does everything. You can't say that abut Crosby. And if Crosby spent time doing everything else, he wouldn't score like he does.

^ This.

And additionally, I feel that Datsyuk is funnier than Crosby. For example, as mentioned above:

Vermette ended up jumping on Datsyuk from behind.

"He just used me like pony," Datsyuk said. "He was on top of me.

"I don't like being the pony. I want to be on top."

[dicksmack 33]

Datsyuk is the best hockey player I've seen.

[egroen 384]

Plus, as others have calculated (someone on HFBoard?)- if you take Dats off the PK and throw him some more even strength and PP time like all three players above him in points had and the numbers slide up for Dats.

I've posted those numbers here and on Hfboards -- The big 3 all get significant even strength minutes over Datsyuk, but even more significantly, they get over 2 minutes of power play time a game. If you simply matched that, making no other alowances (still assuming Datsyuk is playing Selk-level defense) he comes out ahead of all of them. Datsyuk produces a point every 7 minutes on the PP and those guys get over 30 games' worth of extra PP than Datsyuk. While I do think he is more talented than them offensively, this hypothetical situation allows you to at least make the case Datsyuk is just as talented offensively as the the Big 3 -- and we all know he is on a complete other level than them defensively.

[Dano33 41]

Ok, whatever. But if you score two goals but are also on the ice for 4 even strength goals by the other team, there seems to be a disconnect between scoring and every other aspect of the sport. Yeah, it happening once can be a statistical anomaly. Sure. I do know Crosby has never won a Selke. Dats has. So I see more of his well roundedness.

I admit bashing Crosby is old. But when a lot of people here think he the best in the league but can't get mainstream media to pay any attention, yes, we pay more attention to the person appointed "over" us.

+/- is a bad stat... in short periods. It allows for these anomaly games. So let's look over the last few years.

Dats wins. Ok, thanks for playing. Dats does EVERYTHING. Besides fighting, he literally does everything. You can't say that abut Crosby. And if Crosby spent time doing everything else, he wouldn't score like he does.

That's basically all I was trying to say in the first place and i agree with a lot of what you said here. Does Crosby deserve the attention he gets from the media compared to everyone else? No.

And never once did I say 'Crosby Wins', or anything even remotely close to that, I said I'd take Datsyuk. So dont give me this "thanks for playing" ****** bag s***, you don't know everything.

[thedisappearer 291]

That's basically all I was trying to say in the first place and i agree with a lot of what you said here. Does Crosby deserve the attention he gets from the media compared to everyone else? No.

And never once did I say 'Crosby Wins', or anything even remotely close to that, I said I'd take Datsyuk. So dont give me this "thanks for playing" ****** bag s***, you don't know everything.

Sidney Crosby was +3 this season. Dats was third in the league. A full season is not a statistical anomaly, but if it was, we could last season as well. And the season before that. Which is my point that you are agreeing with. So to recap without resorting to "****** bag s***", your point seemed to be that only one data point was used which was too small to be relevant. I changed the data set to include a full season. Both players are among the top in the league in scoring. Only one is among the top of the league in +/-. Wanna take a bet on which one of the two will get nominated for a Selke this year?

[Dano33 41]

Sidney Crosby was +3 this season. Dats was third in the league. A full season is not a statistical anomaly, but if it was, we could last season as well. And the season before that. Which is my point that you are agreeing with. So to recap without resorting to "****** bag s***", your point seemed to be that only one data point was used which was too small to be relevant. I changed the data set to include a full season. Both players are among the top in the league in scoring. Only one is among the top of the league in +/-. Wanna take a bet on which one of the two will get nominated for a Selke this year?

I'll put $10 on Datsyuk, obviously. I don't think I said anything that would make one believe that I wouldn't.

[j.hoop 64]

crosby for selke? :rotflmao:

[solnyshko 8]

Pavel is outta control, in a very good way.

I concur. He is fierce. He rocks.. gotta love him!

[TheOwl 77]

The +/- is meaningless for defensive play. The - though tells the whole story. If less even-strength goals go in when Datysuk is on the ice, he's better defensively. And really I don't know if Mike Richards or whoever else is nominated for the Selke is on the penalty kill, but if you don't or can't kill penalties, you are not a defensive forward.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

^ This.

And additionally, I feel that Datsyuk is funnier than Crosby. For example, as mentioned above:

I dont hate Sidney, but he really doesnt ever show any side to himself but the buisness side, which kinda sucks because he's promoted so much. But that Datsyuk quote is hilarious, ponys

[under_par_00 45]

Is there a video of the hit that Vermette put on Datsyuk late in game 2? I missed it, I switched to watch a different game once the Wings had it locked up. How dirty was it?

[k3sparks 1]

we really should chant pavel's name or "pasha pasha" like we do for ozzie...