Would you want Crosby on the Wings?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

No, I'm implying that since I did a report on it, I'm not a moron and I know what I'm talking about.

No matter, here's a few quotes from an article I'm pulling up:

I may have mixed some things up, but I'm absolutely 100% certain that McCarty proving he was clean and level-headed was a must for him playing for the Wings again. The Wings had a reputation to uphold and McCarty had to fit that. That's all that needs to be said.

Did you do a report on Todd Bertuzzi? Or did he cripple Steve Moore after he left the Red Wings?

Did you do a report on Dino Ciccarelli spending a night in jail for clubbing Luke Richardson in the head with his stick multiple times? Or about him exposing himself publicly?

I think Mac had problems with alcohol during his Wings days.

I think Probie had addiction problems during his days here as well.

As far as what needs to be said. The fact that Todd Bertuzzi did one of the most despicable things in hockey history and THEN the Red Wings brought him aboard pretty much nullifies what you have to say.

[egroen 384]

Did you do a report on Todd Bertuzzi? Or did he cripple Steve Moore after he left the Red Wings?

Did you do a report on Dino Ciccarelli spending a night in jail for clubbing Luke Richardson in the head with his stick multiple times? Or about him exposing himself publicly?

I think Mac had problems with alcohol during his Wings days.

I think Probie had addiction problems during his days here as well.

As far as what needs to be said. The fact that Todd Bertuzzi did one of the most despicable things in hockey history and THEN the Red Wings brought him aboard pretty much nullifies what you have to say.

It's a fair point -- Probert, McCarty, and Avery contributed to their departures from Detroit, for sure.

Bertuzzi, as well as Ciccarelli were a few years removed from their violence on-ice and had not exactly shown those incidents had much of a chance of being repeated. I do think it is safe to say character is important to Wings' management, but that they are also willing to overlook past transgressions.

[OsGOD 3]

nope i don't want the NHL to kiss the wings asses as well as versus and nbc... talk about total gag me! i like being the team most media hates

[puertoricanWingsfan 5]

I have one reason why I wouldn't want Crosby over Hossa:

System.

The beauty of the Wings offense is the system of role players as well as skill players fitting as cogs within a scoring machine.

I'm gonna use a cheesy example, but remember in the movie Miracle when Herb Brooks is making his Olympic roster? His assistant coach questions him for passing up the "best" players. Brooks said, "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right ones." He intended to beat the "better" Russian skill players by using a system of role players.

Sidney Crosby is not a role player. He's the bettman proclaimed God's Gift to Hockey. He's self centered, immature, whiny and cranky. The guy is one of the most incredible scorers to ever play the game, no doubt. But he's a selfish *****. Hossa on the other hand, is a great role player. He did so well with the Penguins because he played a role. He wasn't their savior. That was Cindy.

The wings overall system is so much more powerful than one player. That's why we are a perennial power, that's why we're a permanent playoff team, and... oh yeah: that's why we beat Sidney Crosby's punk ass last year

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ok i was wrong, Datsyuk was 29 and 30 however, Datsyuk did not turn 30 this year, but rather last July. I would say that Datsyuk was most certainly a late bloomer and this may not be the peak of his career, although very few male athletes reach their peak statistical performance in their mid to early thrities compared to their mid to late 20s (Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, other athletes on juice nonwithstanding) and if he does improve his point output, I doubt it will be by much, thats just the nature of the beast that is aging. As far as Crosby's peaking offensive output, i didn't necessarily mean that he will be putting up 150 points seasons year after year, although if he focused only on offense then he would almost certainly be able to achieve those heights......what i meant is that through most of the next decade I'm sure he will work on other facets of his game (defense, etc) and spend less time on offense, but will continue to put up 100 point seasons year after year. You more than anyone would seem to appreciate a consistent level of offensive production while a player added a higher level of defense to his game.

Well we can both agree that if he continues to put 100+ pts up every year for the next 15 years he'll definitely live up to the expectations up upon him.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Well we can both agree that if he continues to put 100+ pts up every year for the next 15 years he'll definitely live up to the expectations up upon him.

The amazing thing to me is he legitimately could rack up 2000 points when its all said and done. A feat only Gretzky has been able to accomplish.

If Crosby has 6 more consecutive seasons at, above or close to 100 on average, he'll be at 1000 career points at the tender age of 28 (he'll be 22 in August). Now stop and think about that:

1000 career points before age 30! And I think we'd all agree that 30 is still a prime hockey age. Could he play until he's 40?

It's going to be interesting. With the dead puck/trapping era over, with scoring up and with his obvious God given ability, if anybody could do it I think it would be him.

I'd like to see him put up a really big season or 2 in the next couple of years....by that I mean a 130+ point season. That'd be a treat for me as a fan just to see scoring back up to those figures.

[Autika 34]

I finally got motivated enough to make an account for this thread, so be gentle with me and keep the skates on the ice.

I cannot claim to have ever been a Sid fan, and I really do like what Hossa has accomplished with us this season. The way I see it Crosby is a bigger liability on the ice than we need. I know I'm gunna catch flak for this, but I'm going to cite everyone's least favorite statistic... the +/-. Regular season he might have had 103 points, but he is only +3 overall. That is abysmal. Hossa on the other hand only had 71 points, but was still +27.

I also think that Crosby's current career path has been detrimental to his growth as a player. He is good, I can't say anything to the contrary, but he would be amazing if he weren't being piled on top of with all this crap Gary has come up with. If he weren't the league's golden boy, and if he started out with a coach who wouldn't stand for his Holier than thou style, put him in his place and strip his C, he would be fine. Yes, I know, stripping the C may seem a little extreme...ish, but you can't tell me that Crosby is a leader on pens. Statistics leader yes, but in the locker room? not a chance. If you don't believe me go and look at some of the interviews in which his teammates talk about him. They always say he is a great player, we are lucky to have him or something along those generic lines that everyone says about their teammates aside from Avery. On the ice his team doesn't stick up for him (much like the Caps Pens game a couple months ago when Ovie was getting the better of him verbally and physically) which says a lot about how they feel about him as their leader. In contrast when the team is talking about Malkin they have wonderful things to say about him, they love having him on their side, and they love having him in their locker room.

So as is? I would not want to risk introducing Crosby to the Wings.

BUT

If we formatted his hard drive THEN brought him on, I wouldn't miss Hossa.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

I finally got motivated enough to make an account for this thread, so be gentle with me and keep the skates on the ice.

I cannot claim to have ever been a Sid fan, and I really do like what Hossa has accomplished with us this season. The way I see it Crosby is a bigger liability on the ice than we need. I know I'm gunna catch flak for this, but I'm going to cite everyone's least favorite statistic... the +/-. Regular season he might have had 103 points, but he is only +3 overall. That is abysmal. Hossa on the other hand only had 71 points, but was still +27.

I also think that Crosby's current career path has been detrimental to his growth as a player. He is good, I can't say anything to the contrary, but he would be amazing if he weren't being piled on top of with all this crap Gary has come up with. If he weren't the league's golden boy, and if he started out with a coach who wouldn't stand for his Holier than thou style, put him in his place and strip his C, he would be fine. Yes, I know, stripping the C may seem a little extreme...ish, but you can't tell me that Crosby is a leader on pens. Statistics leader yes, but in the locker room? not a chance. If you don't believe me go and look at some of the interviews in which his teammates talk about him. They always say he is a great player, we are lucky to have him or something along those generic lines that everyone says about their teammates aside from Avery. On the ice his team doesn't stick up for him (much like the Caps Pens game a couple months ago when Ovie was getting the better of him verbally and physically) which says a lot about how they feel about him as their leader. In contrast when the team is talking about Malkin they have wonderful things to say about him, they love having him on their side, and they love having him in their locker room.

So as is? I would not want to risk introducing Crosby to the Wings.

BUT

If we formatted his hard drive THEN brought him on, I wouldn't miss Hossa.

Crosby has the C on his chest, it would be embarrassing to have somebody else finish his business for him, the buck is supposed to stop at the leader, and believe me, if Crosby was having someone else finish his business for him (a la Marty McCsorley did with Gretzky) he would be made fun of on here by his haters more than he is already. As far as not being a leader, I disagree, doing things like going after Ballard after Ballard lowbridged Malkin last month gains alot of respect in the room, I don't know if you have ever played hockey before, but if you did at any serious level then you would know that a leader going after someone to protect his team gains a ton of trust and respect among the guys.

[Autika 34]

Crosby has the C on his chest, it would be embarrassing to have somebody else finish his business for him, the buck is supposed to stop at the leader, and believe me, if Crosby was having someone else finish his business for him (a la Marty McCsorley did with Gretzky) he would be made fun of on here by his haters more than he is already. As far as not being a leader, I disagree, doing things like going after Ballard after Ballard lowbridged Malkin last month gains alot of respect in the room, I don't know if you have ever played hockey before, but if you did at any serious level then you would know that a leader going after someone to protect his team gains a ton of trust and respect among the guys.

Your Captain does not have to be your enforcer, and no one is going to poke fun at a good Captain for not dropping the gloves (Case in point, Lidstrom, Yzerman, Niedermyer... ok that was a joke, please don't kill me). Having someones back is not a leadership trait, it is a team sport trait. And when Ballard knocked the hell out of Malkin (clean hit if I recall correctly, don't quote me on that one) it just shows the tout that Malkin has on that team. Don't get me wrong, I'm no where near big enough to play hockey, but even I know that if someone drops the team's favorite player on his head, you do something about it and you do it fast. You don't need a C or an A on your chest to do it though because that isn't a leadership role. The real question here is, how often do you see people going after players for knocking Crosby down (clean hit mind you)? I don't claim to know for sure because... well, I watch the wings not the pens. Every times I've been watching though it seemed to me like Crosby was on his own.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Your Captain does not have to be your enforcer, and no one is going to poke fun at a good Captain for not dropping the gloves (Case in point, Lidstrom, Yzerman, Niedermyer... ok that was a joke, please don't kill me). Having someones back is not a leadership trait, it is a team sport trait. And when Ballard knocked the hell out of Malkin (clean hit if I recall correctly, don't quote me on that one) it just shows the tout that Malkin has on that team. Don't get me wrong, I'm no where near big enough to play hockey, but even I know that if someone drops the team's favorite player on his head, you do something about it and you do it fast. You don't need a C or an A on your chest to do it though because that isn't a leadership role. The real question here is, how often do you see people going after players for knocking Crosby down (clean hit mind you)? I don't claim to know for sure because... well, I watch the wings not the pens. Every times I've been watching though it seemed to me like Crosby was on his own.

No offense to you or anything but any weight i put into your opinion on this thread completely went out the window when you told me you've never played hockey....you just wouldn't understand.

[Rivalred 630]

No offense to you or anything but any weight i put into your opinion on this thread completely went out the window when you told me you've never played hockey....you just wouldn't understand.

Does being captain of my fantasy league count or being all state in bubble hockey at the local pub?

[Autika 34]

Oh I've played Hockey, I just don't have the stature to do it at the level which warrants note.

[Dabura 12,232]

Who's Sidney Crosby?

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Who's Sidney Crosby?

I dunno, but Bing Crosby was a helluva guy!

[Echolalia 2,961]

Your Captain does not have to be your enforcer, and no one is going to poke fun at a good Captain for not dropping the gloves (Case in point, Lidstrom, Yzerman, Niedermyer... ok that was a joke, please don't kill me). Having someones back is not a leadership trait, it is a team sport trait. And when Ballard knocked the hell out of Malkin (clean hit if I recall correctly, don't quote me on that one) it just shows the tout that Malkin has on that team. Don't get me wrong, I'm no where near big enough to play hockey, but even I know that if someone drops the team's favorite player on his head, you do something about it and you do it fast. You don't need a C or an A on your chest to do it though because that isn't a leadership role. The real question here is, how often do you see people going after players for knocking Crosby down (clean hit mind you)? I don't claim to know for sure because... well, I watch the wings not the pens. Every times I've been watching though it seemed to me like Crosby was on his own.

I hope you stay on the forums for a while. I like your debating skills and the fact that you try to avoid personal confrontation. We need more of that here.

[Guest Shoreline]

I finally got motivated enough to make an account for this thread, so be gentle with me and keep the skates on the ice.

I cannot claim to have ever been a Sid fan, and I really do like what Hossa has accomplished with us this season. The way I see it Crosby is a bigger liability on the ice than we need. I know I'm gunna catch flak for this, but I'm going to cite everyone's least favorite statistic... the +/-. Regular season he might have had 103 points, but he is only +3 overall. That is abysmal. Hossa on the other hand only had 71 points, but was still +27.

I also think that Crosby's current career path has been detrimental to his growth as a player. He is good, I can't say anything to the contrary, but he would be amazing if he weren't being piled on top of with all this crap Gary has come up with. If he weren't the league's golden boy, and if he started out with a coach who wouldn't stand for his Holier than thou style, put him in his place and strip his C, he would be fine. Yes, I know, stripping the C may seem a little extreme...ish, but you can't tell me that Crosby is a leader on pens. Statistics leader yes, but in the locker room? not a chance. If you don't believe me go and look at some of the interviews in which his teammates talk about him. They always say he is a great player, we are lucky to have him or something along those generic lines that everyone says about their teammates aside from Avery. On the ice his team doesn't stick up for him (much like the Caps Pens game a couple months ago when Ovie was getting the better of him verbally and physically) which says a lot about how they feel about him as their leader. In contrast when the team is talking about Malkin they have wonderful things to say about him, they love having him on their side, and they love having him in their locker room.

So as is? I would not want to risk introducing Crosby to the Wings.

BUT

If we formatted his hard drive THEN brought him on, I wouldn't miss Hossa.

+/- is only useful in suggesting a player is decent or bad when used in an overall evaluation. Here's why. Hossa was a -19 last season, and a +0 with the Penguins while scoring nearly 1 point a game. What this obviously means is the Penguins as a team give up not far from the same amount of goals as they put up. In fact, if one bases play on +/-, Donald Brashear was a better player than Marian Hossa last season. I hate the way people manipulate statistics, since when looking at the situation objectively, it does not hold any water.

StevieY'sguy is absolutely wrong as well by his strange insinuation that you need to actually play hockey to understand it. Totally wrong.

+/- is not an indicator of individual success in and of it's own right. There's (in just about every situation) 5 other guys on the ice besides that one player who help determine the outcome of that statistic.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Shoreline

[Autika 34]

+/- is only useful in suggesting a player is decent or bad when used in an overall evaluation. Here's why. Hossa was a -19 last season, and a +0 with the Penguins while scoring nearly 1 point a game. What this obviously means is the Penguins as a team give up not far from the same amount of goals as they put up. In fact, if one bases play on +/-, Donald Brashear was a better player than Marian Hossa last season. I hate the way people manipulate statistics, since when looking at the situation objectively, it does not hold any water.

StevieY'sguy is absolutely wrong as well by his strange insinuation that you need to actually play hockey to understand it. Totally wrong.

+/- is not an indicator of individual success in and of it's own right. There's (in just about every situation) 5 other guys on the ice besides that one player who help determine the outcome of that statistic.

You are right. I should have check last season as well, but my point was that its a bit of a wild card as to what happens on the ice when Crosby is out there, and I would prefer to have a forward on the ice who would work better with the puck containment style we use.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

You are right. I should have check last season as well, but my point was that its a bit of a wild card as to what happens on the ice when Crosby is out there, and I would prefer to have a forward on the ice who would work better with the puck containment style we use.

You can teach a guy to play defense. You can't teach someone to lead the league in scoring.

[therock48880 14]

Let me start this by saying, I CAN'T STAND CROSBY. However, would I want him on the Wings? Absolutely. In a cap-less world, every single team would want the guy. (kid). He would not get the "C" or an "A", though. That whining crap rubs off on your teammates if you are the supposed leader.

[Echolalia 2,961]

You can teach a guy to play defense. You can't teach someone to lead the league in scoring.

Everyone except Shanahan and Hull.

[norrisnick 1]

Hey Nick, I know you have a huge hard one for Feds. I get it. But don't blame me. I didn't write the articles about Fedorov those many years ago. I just read them as a young kid. Most of them were in the Hockey News.

Just because you're parroting the stupid opinions of others doesn't make you any less culpable for the stupidity of said opinions.

[norrisnick 1]

You can teach a guy to play defense. You can't teach someone to lead the league in scoring.

Leading the league in scoring is largely pointless. Did you know the Art Ross winner has only won the cup once in the last 17 years?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Leading the league in scoring is largely pointless. Did you know the Art Ross winner has only won the cup once in the last 17 years?

Cool story, bro.

[egroen 384]

Everyone except Shanahan and Hull.

Though I didn't think Shanahan was that bad at all.

I think NJ has even been using him on the PK.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

+/- is only useful in suggesting a player is decent or bad when used in an overall evaluation. Here's why. Hossa was a -19 last season, and a +0 with the Penguins while scoring nearly 1 point a game. What this obviously means is the Penguins as a team give up not far from the same amount of goals as they put up. In fact, if one bases play on +/-, Donald Brashear was a better player than Marian Hossa last season. I hate the way people manipulate statistics, since when looking at the situation objectively, it does not hold any water.

StevieY'sguy is absolutely wrong as well by his strange insinuation that you need to actually play hockey to understand it. Totally wrong.

+/- is not an indicator of individual success in and of it's own right. There's (in just about every situation) 5 other guys on the ice besides that one player who help determine the outcome of that statistic.

You are taking what i said completely out of context. Autika was saying that the Penguins don't have many positives to say about Crosby as their leader.....what I was saying was that when a captain sticks up for a teammate the way Crosby did for Malkin, it goes a long way towards adding to their reputation among the guys on the team as their leader, that he will stick his neck on the line for another guy on the team, it doesn't matter that Crosby didn't even land a punch, it was the principle of the action that speaks to his teammates, I know this all for a fact because I've been on teams where very similar situations have happend. When Autika insinuated that he/she had never played serious hockey before, then i lost my interest in his or her opinion on a subject that involved the attitudes inside the locker room of a serious hockey team....due to the fact that he/she had never been involved with one. It would be like a joe blow golfer trying to explain the what goes on in the mind of somebody leading the Masters on Sunday at Augusta, if you've never actually been there, then you're basically just blowing smoke because you have no real way of knowing what goes on.