will wings retire fedorov's 91?

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Get over what? I don't care what you think. I just have to laugh at your ridiculous attempt to belittle Fedorov's importance by posting some media crap about him and saying he wasn't like Yzerman or Lidstrom.

See Reds, you can read all those articles and see that in no way shape or form he was cancerous towards his team .....

Edited April 30, 2009 by ManLuv4Clears

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

I am staying out of the rest of this post we have been here done that about 8000 times on this board.

However are you seriosly trying to tell me that the guy who willing gave up money for more talent to join the team used playing in Sweden as a threat?

First off I have never seen Lids say, "I don't want to play for the Wings any more."

I have heard rumblings that he would like to go home and play for his native Sweden, to me that is very very different from saying, "I would love to play for the Hurricanes/Ducks, I don't want to play in Detroit".

What was his reasoning, Ana was closer to Russia?

Saying you want to go back and play for your home country or play back home is different than saying I want to play for another team in your league because I don't like you.

A comparison of Lids and Feds ends at the fact they both wore the winged wheel! Lids is a consummate pro, Feds is and only ever has been worried about himself. I have no problem with that, doesn't bother me, but that attitude sure as hell keeps you from getting your number retired in Det.

List of things lids did that make him a Red Wing at Heart (which is pivotal in getting your Jersey to the rafters):

- Took a lesser contract to get more talent here.

- Surrendered money (He, Stevie, and Shanny all gave back money (pre-cba) to get Hull, Dom, Luc in Det)

- Wore the C (say what you want this weighs heavy, it takes a lot to get the C on your chest on this team)

- Kept contracts and whatever other business in house.

- Always put the Org ahead of himself.

- Lids is one of the top 5 (depending on your view #2 imo) of all time at his position, both reg and post season.

- NEVER HELD OUT! (your and my opinion of this as a business decision is moot, The Org's opinion on this is a huge bone of contention).

Anyone else feel free to add on!

For some reason it's coming to mind the Lids wanted to go back to Sweden because he wanted to raise his kids in the Swedish culture that he was raised in. I'll look for a link, but if that's fact you can't hate on the guy for that. Good post Opie.

[egroen 384]

I am staying out of the rest of this post we have been here done that about 8000 times on this board.

However are you seriosly trying to tell me that the guy who willing gave up money for more talent to join the team used playing in Sweden as a threat?

First off I have never seen Lids say, "I don't want to play for the Wings any more."

I have heard rumblings that he would like to go home and play for his native Sweden, to me that is very very different from saying, "I would love to play for the Hurricanes/Ducks, I don't want to play in Detroit".

What was his reasoning, Ana was closer to Russia?

Saying you want to go back and play for your home country or play back home is different than saying I want to play for another team in your league because I don't like you.

That's the annoying thing about message boards. You read my post and this is what you took away from it? I even carefully stated that Fedorov was different from Lidstrom and Yzerman.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Lidstrom to me -- but most know the idea of Lidstrom playing in Sweden always seemed to pop up during contract time. So what? Maybe it was a bargaining chip for more more money, years or a NTC and maybe it was not. Is that really shocking or egregious if it is the case? I am not bothered by it one it if it is the case, and I am not assuming so either. But I do know Lidstrom is not a perfect human being, and I would never expect that. I think pretty well of myself, but just this morning I forgot to latch the gate and my dogs got out -- terribly irresponsible and there could have been awful consequences, but I hope others will not judge me on this one irresponsible mistake I made... and there have been plenty of others.

[Opie 308]

You stated Lids threatened to go back to Sweden as a negotiation tactic, thus trying to compare him to Feds. I stated he was only comparable in and of the fact they wore the same sweater.

Then I defended my opinion, not to you, just defended my opinion.

You can have whatever opinion of Feds you want, however so can I, but if I say he doesn't deserve his number retired and don't defend it I am labeled a Jilted ex-lover. SO therefore I defended my position.

The idea of Lids retiring has come up each and every year, was it brought up by him, nope media and fans, and until you can find a quote from Lids that says, he stated he was wanted to go back instead of playing for Det, it is absolutely nothing like Feds. I am sure he has been asked about it, and I have no doubt that he at some point and time said I would like to raise my children in Sweden. Nationalistic pride, I get it.

But never has he signed an offer with another team or made any commitment to play anywhere but in DET, same with Yzerman, even after he was half way to Vancouver.

Still don't see a difference?

My point: you tried, but failed, to say that what Lids did compares to what Feds did. When in actuality the two are no where near each other.

EDIT:

BTW making mistakes is fine, Lids put one in the back of his own net, takes penalties and I am sure once and a while swears, accidentally, in front of his kids.

But those mistakes are not the same as saying I want to play some where else, in this frame of context, because after all we are talking about the Red Wings retiring his number not you or I.

You not latching the gate (BTW I hope the pets are more than OK, as a recent dog owner I can only imagine how I would feel, I truly hope all is well) apparently has dire consequences, are you going to do it again, let alone the very next chance you get. Because that is what Feds did. He signed an offer sheet, at that time the closest thing he could contractually do to signing with another team, and then when the first chance to sign with another team came along, he did. I don't considered what he did a mistake, it may have been a mistake in hindsight, but his intentions were not mistaken, he didn't accidentally sign the wrong contract, he didn't sign the offer sheet thinking man it is going to be great playing in Detroit the rest of my career. No he was thinking I can't wait to get the hell out of Det. Now for some reason the Org should be saying we can't wait to retire his Jersey even though he couldn't wait to leave our team. ERRRRRRRR Wrong answer Bucko (Richie Cunningham reference).

And imo if the minute a player retires the ORG isn't instantly thinking we have to put his number in the rafters as soon as possible, it probably shouldn't go up.

Lids, no question retire it!

Yzerman, no question retire it!

Ozzie, your opinion my opinion, there are still questions, same with Draper and Maltby, same will be said for Homer

Edited April 30, 2009 by Opie

[egroen 384]

I said Lidstrom may have used it as a negotiating tool. He may have, and I wouldn't find it shocking or outrageous if he did. If it is ultimately the word choice of "threatened" you are reacting to, consider it retracted. Despite hints of playing in Sweden or retiring, Lidstrom stayed here and I have a feeling money had more than a little to do with it.

It was not a direct comparison to Fedorov, but only to state everyone is looking out for himself come contract time. Lidstrom could take a lot less money if he wanted to and he certainly did not need a no-movement-clause or the unofficial "Lidstrom Cap". The guy has certainly looked out for himself, and more power to him for it.

Fedorov wanted to lead a team and he did not get that in Detroit - not everyone needs that, but if it is important to you, find a way to make a change.

EDIT: Dogs are fine But it is scary as hell - we live near a busy road and there are all sorts of terrible things that can happen. That said, I will probably do it again at some point... this is not the first time they have gotten out. But yeah, not exactly the best comparison to Fedorov - as it was not a "mistake" he signed another contract and offer sheet - the guy just wanted another opportunity. Though the "mistake" was more in the way he handled it, which I think led to more criticism than it could have been. See Shanahan for a better way to go about leaving a team.

Edited April 30, 2009 by egroen

[Guest Shoreline]

Since people are comparing Lids/Yzerman to Fedorov -- can people tell me who held out demanding a new contract? All of them? How can that be seen as professional? Can someone also elaborate for me how this team matching an offer is in any sense Fedorov being loyal to the Wings, and why a team should retire a number of a person who decided to put themselves ahead of their team numerous times? They can recognize his accomplishments without retiring his number. Accomplishments alone aren't merit for a team honoring a player in that fashion. It would disgrace the other people up on the rafters, especially Yzerman and Howe.

If my memory serves me correctly, Yzerman was under threat of being traded only due to his lack of defensive skill, which obviously he tuned up. As for Lidstrom, years ago he talked about raising his family in Sweden, and if he ended up playing hockey there it's obviously because it would be easier to maintain a family living in the same country one works in. None of these are anything close to Fedorov so it's mind-boggling to me as to how these two classy players get put into the mix with Fedorov.

[Opie 308]

I said Lidstrom may have used it as a negotiating tool. He may have, and I wouldn't find it shocking or outrageous if he did. If it is ultimately the word choice of "threatened" you are reacting to, consider it retracted. Despite hints of playing in Sweden or retiring, Lidstrom stayed here and I have a feeling money had more than a little to do with it.

It was not a direct comparison to Fedorov, but only to state everyone is looking out for himself come contract time. Lidstrom could take a lot less money if he wanted to and he certainly did not need an unofficial "Lidstrom Cap". The guy has certainly looked out for himself, and more power to him for it.

Fedorov wanted to lead a team and he did not get that in Detroit - not everyone needs that, but if it is important to you, find a way to make a change.

True 100% agreed, however you have to see how that looks to the Org when it is in fact their decision to hang the 91 or not.

I have not nor will I ever begrudge Feds for looking out for number 1, hell I do it every damn day I come to work!

But I don't expect my companies to name a wing or a building after me once I have left. And I am sure Feds could care less about his 91 hanging in Det, just like I could give two sh!ts what my last employer thinks of me.

The Lids cap if I am not mistaken was Hollands idea as a way to make Lids comfortable with taking less money, because if Hossa came in at 8-9 mil this year I sure as hell would be pissed off in Lids shoes if I show the Org a ton of dedication and take a pay cut to give them room to surround me with better players, hold Dats and Z to that line and then give Hossa all that money. It would be a slap in the face. But I have no first hand knowledge of whom initiated the Lids cap, I just know it exists.

That is what separates people like Lids and Yzerman from people like Feds and I, I am not willing to put my employer above me, I don't have the faith that they would do the same if the roles were reversed. Lids and Yzerman had faith in the Wings org.

To Feds proving to himself he could lead a team could have been more important and I don't hate on him for wanting to achieve all the goals he set for himself. But you cannot take only his side and say well he was just doing right by himself they should retire it. NO, they (more than any other org) expect players to put the org first, at least in regards to the 'C' and hanging his jersey.

[egroen 384]

Argh, I am not comparing Lids and Yzerman to Fedorov. Those guys are pretty unique.

But I don't think Sakic should not be retired in Colorado because he signed an offer sheet either.

If we are going to compare Fedorov to any players with their numbers in the banner, Lindsay is the best one - because Lindsay is ten times worse than Fedorov (Sawchuk was no angel, either). Ted Lindsay may be the dirtiest player to ever play in the NHL. New penalties were literally created because of his play. The guy was barred from Old-Timers games for a while because he was still playing dirty (lol, can you imagine?). He put his own interests in front of the team when he kept trying to form a union, despite knowing damn well it might get him traded or even blackballed from the entire league. Yes, it was ultimately altruistic of him, but I am sure it started off with, "damn, I deserve more money for doing this". The Red wings were a worse team because of his actions resulting in him being traded. Gordie Howe and other players spoke publicly against his actions.

[Opie 308]

Glad to hear all the pets are OK!!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Props to Shoreline, Opie and Egroen. We might not see this eye to eye on all aspects but good stuff from everybody. Much better than the bong smoking, jilted exes comments from Norrisnick and the predictable banality and close minded irrationality of Reds

For the record, I don't have a mad hate on for Feds. He was awesome. He was fun to watch fly up and down the ice and I don't take anything away from what he helped this organization accomplish.

Furthermore, I don't begrudge anybody who says they want need/want/have to do what is in their best interests. I also don't mind if they leave for more money or want to leave for a different role, more ice time, more bonuses, better lifestyle for their kids, better climate and again maybe just for the cash alone. I have no problem with any of that.

HOWEVER, when you decide you want to leave for any of those reasons, it's my personal belief that that disqualifies you from jersey retirement. Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it to with me. That's just how I feel.

Lastly, I don't think comparing Ted Lindsay to Sergei Fedorov is appropriate at all. Ted Lindsay did something not only for himself, but to correct an injustice that was affecting all players and would have affected all players until the end of time. Ted Lindsay went to war for the benefit and fair distribution of wealth for himself, his teammates, his peers and for those to follow.

Sergei Fedorov has never accomplished anything in his life as significant as what Ted Lindsay did. Comparing them on a superficial level in that both left or went to other teams is an insult to Mr. Lindsay.

Edited April 30, 2009 by GordieSid&Ted

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Fedorov is no Ted Lindsay (in my book anyway)

Players' Union

That same year, Mr. Lindsay attended the annual pension plan meeting as the representative of the Red Wings players, where he found that the plan was kept secret. Later that year when he attended a promotion with football and baseball players, he found out that conditions in the other sports' pro leagues were much better. He was introduced to the lawyers for the players of the other leagues and became convinced that only through an association could the players' conditions could be improved.

At a time when teams literally owned their players for their entire career, the players began demanding such basics as a minimum salary and a properly funded pension plan. While team owners were getting rich with sold out arenas game after game, players were earning a pittance and many needed summer jobs just to make ends meet. Almost all of these men had no more than a high school education and had been playing hockey as a profession all their working life. Superstars in the 1950s earned less than $25,000 a year and when their hockey playing days were over, they had nothing to fall back on and had to accept whatever work they could get in order to survive.

He and star defenceman Doug Harvey of the Montreal Canadiens led a small group in an effort to organize the first National Hockey League Players' Association. In secret, all of the players at the time were contacted and asked for their support to form an "association", not a "union" which was considered going too far. Support was nearly unanimous.

Mr. Lindsay worked doggedly for the cause and many of his fellow players who supported the association were benched or sent to obscurity in the minor leagues. He and Harvey then became convinced that only a union could win the demands, and set up a schedule to get players' support on record to be certified as a union. In a defiant gesture, the Toronto Maple Leafs and Detroit Red Wings were targeted for certification votes. While Montreal's ownership was not opposing a union, Toronto's Conn Smythe was adamantly against it. In the United States, the four teams were controlled or under obligations to the Norris syndicate, but Detroit was the jewel. Despite Smythe's efforts, the Toronto Maple Leafs players unanimously voted to organize. Next was the turn of Detroit to organize, and the Norrises would fight back.

When asked about the formation of the NHLPA, Lindsay remarked:

“ Actually, we don't have many grievances. We just felt we should have an organization of this kind.[2] â€Â

[edit] Trade to Chicago Black Hawks

Lindsay, one of the league's top players, was first stripped of his captaincy, then later was traded to the perpetual last place team, the Chicago Black Hawks. Jack Adams then planted false rumours about Ted and false defamatory comments by Ted against his old team in the press, and showed a fake contract to the press, showing an inflated annual salary. The ruse worked and the Detroit Red Wings players rejected the union.

However, Ted was not done. He initiated an anti-trust lawsuit against the league, alleging a monopoly since 1926. The players had a strong case, that could be easily proved with an exposition of the Norris syndicate's operations, and Frank Calder's efforts against the American Hockey Association (AHA) in 1926 and 1932, ironically involving James E. Norris on the AHA side. Also, the various Norris arenas were hiding revenues through ticket scalping and under-reporting arena capacities and actual ticket sales. Rather than face the lawsuit in court, the NHL, in an out-of-court settlement in February 1958, agreed to most of the players' demands, although the pension plan was not exposed until 1989, showing a surplus of $25 million. Although a union was not formed in 1958, a permanent union would be formed in 1967.

A TV movie (1995) of the 1957–1958 events has been made by the CBC, entitled "Net Worth", based on the Lindsay chapters in the book of the same name.

The actions of the Red Wings, while maintaining control over the players, hindered their on-ice record. Jack Adams was fired in 1961. Mr. Lindsay played in Chicago for three years before retiring in 1960. Four years later, his former linemate, Sid Abel, was the coach and general manager of the Red Wings and enticed the 39-year-old into making a comeback. He played just the one season, helping Detroit to its first regular season championship since his trade seven years earlier.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

See Reds, you can read all those articles and see that in no way shape or form he was cancerous towards his team .....

ManLuv4Clears I can understand. Cleary is all heart baby.

ManLuv4Feds....meh, not so much.

I didn't past all of the comments but Kris Draper is on record at the time as saying Fedorov would have the chance to come back and prove himself to his teammates. That's proof right there that after he signed with Carolina and said he wouldn't play for the Wings that the Wings, at least Draper, felt betrayed by him. And Drapes has always been a leader so I have no doubt that he spoke for the team.

And the fact that the Wings broke with tradition, even if in a joking sense, they still aimed to prove a point to Sergei by making him pick up the tab for dinner. I think it was abundantly clear that his teammates, even the Russian ones, were not happy with him.

[egroen 384]

How many of you would be keen to retire the number of a dirty player like Ulf Samuelsson if he had played his entire career for the Wings (assuming he had HoF billing)? Lindsay was worse.

I can compare them because both took actions that placed themselves and their goals in front of the team, resulting in them leaving the team.

I just think as time goes on, like Lindsay, more will want to "lay claim" to Fedorov and honor his accomplishments while he was a Red Wing. It bothers me that Red Kelly's number is honored in Toronto and not in Detroit, where he accomplished a lot more. I want Kelly remembered and honored in Detroit, despite his falling out with Jack Adams and playing for another team.

Edited April 30, 2009 by egroen

[Opie 308]

Egroen,

I think the Jack Adams era players get a benefit of the doubt because Jack Adams and the Norris family screwed a lot of those players over.

Reading what it means to be a Red Wing shines a lot of light on the players and their actions from that Era.

I agree with you on Kelly and Aurie, just not Feds!

The Players at that point in time had no loyalty from the owners and had no course of action, very very different.

I don't hold as much against that era of players because of that era of owners.

Feds on the other hand played for a Franchise that rewards loyalty, and had he been loyal I have no doubt that even with the decline in stats ( I also wager his stat decline would have been far less severe had he stayed) he would have been in the rafters. He may not have made as much money and may not have been able to lead a team but his number would be in the rafters.

This discussion is very very different from the HHOF argument, this one to me is cut and dry due to the decisions that have already been made. Had they pulled a crapalanche and retired Hullie's number then without a doubt Feds number belongs in the rafters, so then wouldn't about 60 others if not more.

EDIT:

IMO if Ulf had been a lifelong Wing he doesn't get his number retired, his hits would not only have shined badly on him but the org as well.

Times have changed and the things Howe and Lindsay did are looked upon a lot more stringently, butt ending some one in the 50's wasn't viewed the same as it was in the 80's which was not viewed the same as in the 2000's.

A lot of that stems from increased knowledge of what happens to the body and brain when hits are received in a certain fashion, as well as soccer moms not wanting Timmy to see some one get bloodied up, hence why soccer players dive so much. There was an outcry about slide tackles from behind, the refs attempted to stop it by calling any thing that looked remotely close to a tackle from behind. Thus leading to players flailing all over the place, trying to buy a call.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Opie

[egroen 384]

You're right, those guys get the benefit of the doubt, as they should.

But like them, it's just hard for me to muster up legitimate reasons to not retire the number of one of the greatest Red Wings ever. Fedorov was loyal to the Wings throughout every contract he had. And he was never under any contractual obligation to create charities in Detroit and fund them with millions of dollars. Sure he might not have played 100% during every single regular season game, but neither does Datsyuk. A smart player on a good team does save some for the playoffs.

I think he made a mistake on how he handled everything and he should have put a leash on his dad, but I do not let that take away from his accomplishments here. So he is not near sainthood like Yzerman and especially Lidstrom, but not even Howe has that clean a closet.

It's clear to me money was never the motivator for his leaving, which would have rubbed a bit more salt in the wounds. If Fedorov was injured in 2003 and forced to retire - I bet it would be near unanimous that his number deserved to be retired. He had accomplished more than enough to deserve that honor.

But the fact was, it was obviously a goal of his to lead a team, and he was not going to get that in Detroit. I guess in my opinion, I do not view it as much different than had he retired in 2003.

I appreciate the tone of these last couple pages and realize everyone is just presenting their opinion and hope it stays that way!

[Opie 308]

You're right, those guys get the benefit of the doubt, as they should.

But like them, it's just hard for me to muster up legitimate reasons to not retire the number of one of the greatest Red Wings ever. Fedorov was loyal to the Wings throughout every contract he had. And he was never under any contractual obligation to create charities in Detroit and fund them with millions of dollars. Sure he might not have played 100% during every single regular season game, but neither does Datsyuk. A smart player on a good team does save some for the playoffs.

I think he made a mistake on how he handled everything and he should have put a leash on his dad, but I do not let that take away from his accomplishments here. So he is not near sainthood like Yzerman and especially Lidstrom, but not even Howe has that clean a closet.

It's clear to me money was never the motivator for his leaving, which would have rubbed a bit more salt in the wounds. If Fedorov was injured in 2003 and forced to retire - I bet it would be near unanimous that his number deserved to be retired. He had accomplished more than enough to deserve that honor.

But the fact was, it was obviously a goal of his to lead a team, and he was not going to get that in Detroit. I guess in my opinion, I do not view it as much different than had he retired in 2003.

I appreciate the tone of these last couple pages and realize everyone is just presenting their opinion and hope it stays that way!

Bolded -- Me too!!

BTW: this reminds me of the threads previous to the last cup, when I came on here and debates where just that now it is flames and arguments. Who remembers DRW02 (was that the posters name, he was liek the only troll on the board, 1 troll wow!)

I am not going to argue it with you but your opinion is that Feds was one of the greatest wings ever, I have him a lot further down that list than you do. If Fed was injured in 2003, his number imo is still not retired, I told you I would stay out of the numbers game when I started posting and I will.

He was a great playoff guy, one of the best post season players in History, however up until recently while his play was in decline he was no where near the post season. Maybe his post season numbers follow his season's numbers, maybe he keeps his post season numbers up. Neither of us know.

Warning, I got into numbers even though I didn't intend it!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

But imo Feds is much like Cam Neely, neither belong in the HHOF or retired #'s, I know Cam Neely is a legend in the parts (Boston area) however, while he was a great player for a short period of time, it was just that a short period of time, however I would argue longer than Feds', I mean in Cam's 3rd to last season he scored 50 in 49 games, but I would say based on numbers Feds deserves the HHOF before Cam, but I find Cam in the HHOF as a hockey travesty, it was done to honor the guy because of Ulf, rather injury!!

Edited April 30, 2009 by Opie

[egroen 384]

I agree on Neely - but also think circumstances should be able to bump a borderline candidate like that in.

Fedorov was better though.

Here is how I have them rated:

1) Howe

The clear number one.

2) Lidstrom

3) Lindsay

4) Yzerman

5) Sawchuk

6) Kelly

These guys are all on a pretty equal level for me, and I change their order A LOT.

7) Fedorov

8) Abel

9) Delvecchio

10) Ullman

I'll switch these guys around a lot also, and think they are on a pretty even footing for the most part. Goodfellow would be # 11.

And I am only counting time with the Wings.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

I agree on Neely - but also think circumstances should be able to bump a borderline candidate like that in.

Fedorov was better though.

Here is how I have them rated:

1) Howe

The clear number one.

2) Lidstrom

3) Lindsay

4) Yzerman

5) Sawchuk

6) Kelly

These guys are all on a pretty equal level for me, and I change their order A LOT.

7) Fedorov

8) Abel

9) Delvecchio

10) Ullman

I'll switch these guys around a lot also, and think they are on a pretty even footing for the most part. Goodfellow would be # 11.

And I am only counting time with the Wings.

That's a good listing, again I wouldn't have Fedorov up there, but that's neither here nor there and we can agree to disagree. No hard feelings. More than likely 10 years from now there may be a name or two from the current roster that would get consideration into your 7-10 slots. One thing we can't argue is that we are blessed to have this thread with the talent the Wings have had over the years. We could always be discussing whether Bourque was deserving or not.

[norrisnick 1]

ManLuv4Clears I can understand. Cleary is all heart baby.

ManLuv4Feds....meh, not so much.

I didn't past all of the comments but Kris Draper is on record at the time as saying Fedorov would have the chance to come back and prove himself to his teammates. That's proof right there that after he signed with Carolina and said he wouldn't play for the Wings that the Wings, at least Draper, felt betrayed by him. And Drapes has always been a leader so I have no doubt that he spoke for the team.

And the fact that the Wings broke with tradition, even if in a joking sense, they still aimed to prove a point to Sergei by making him pick up the tab for dinner. I think it was abundantly clear that his teammates, even the Russian ones, were not happy with him.

Broke with tradition? I'm fairly certain that the guy who signs the big deal gets hit up for dinner all around the league. It's a tradition on par with the rookie dinner. You finally get the big money, you're taking the guys out to eat.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

ManLuv4Clears I can understand. Cleary is all heart baby.

ManLuv4Feds....meh, not so much.

I didn't past all of the comments but Kris Draper is on record at the time as saying Fedorov would have the chance to come back and prove himself to his teammates. That's proof right there that after he signed with Carolina and said he wouldn't play for the Wings that the Wings, at least Draper, felt betrayed by him. And Drapes has always been a leader so I have no doubt that he spoke for the team.

And the fact that the Wings broke with tradition, even if in a joking sense, they still aimed to prove a point to Sergei by making him pick up the tab for dinner. I think it was abundantly clear that his teammates, even the Russian ones, were not happy with him.

That's why Cleary's my boy. As for Feds, I just wish he could have been a little classier about the whole situation. He handled everything wrong from the start. If he could have done a lot of things differently this thread might not be 9 pages long.

[Taylorov 37]

I see it like this...

Detroiters have alot of pride in their sports and their city. Feds leaving, and never really appearing to be happy here in the first place, is what leaves a sour taste in many peoples mouths. It wasn't just a hockey thing. He wanted to be all Hollywood and that doesn't mash well with the blue-collars of the area.

[Opie 308]

Broke with tradition? I'm fairly certain that the guy who signs the big deal gets hit up for dinner all around the league. It's a tradition on par with the rookie dinner. You finally get the big money, you're taking the guys out to eat.

No, the rookies pay for dinner, it is a tradition all around many leagues that once a year all of the rookies pay for dinner as well as usually wear some stupid get up or hat or something. Sort of a hazing, except for the year we are talking about, in which Feds paid.

Even his own country men were pissed at him for his attitude, his own teammates were less than happy with what he did, how do you think the org which values loyalty over stats thinks about that?

Edited April 30, 2009 by Opie

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Egroen,

if we just look at numbers and accomplishments nobody can argue that Feds shouldn't have his number retired.

But I have a problem comparing him to somebody from 4-5 decades ago.

If we are comparing Fedorov to anybody, we are comparing him to his contemporaries, which are Steve Yzerman and Nicklas Lidstrom. Not Shanny or Osgood or Draper or Ulf Samuellson or Hasek or Chelios. Feds has no true equals other than Stevie and Nick.

IMO, Steve and Nick are 5 star and locks for jersey retirement (19 obviously done). Fedorov, for all the negative things falls just shy of those 2.

And one must keep in mind what Ted Lindsay did. If you can imagine the circumstances back then, with players being underpaid, having to work off season jobs and not having any rights whatsoever, what Lindsay did he did for all of the players he played with and all those to follow.

Fedorov seeking fair market value for his services is only superficially akin to what Lindsay was doing. Lindsay is a hero for what he did. I don't think anybody would call Fedorov a hero for wanting FMV for his services.

I just don't like the comparisons to Howe and Lindsay. Especially in regards to the on ice stuff that happened.

I didn't feel the need to throw this stuff out there b/c I feel enough negative info has been shown already but since the comparisons are being brought up Fedorov by no means has a clean slate.

Arrested for drunken driving. Initially pleaded not guilty, changed to guillty.

Suspended for 4 games for cross check to head and punching a downed Jay More.

Suspended for 2 games for hitting Jason Marshall from behind.

Suspended for 5 games for slashing Zdeno Chara in the neck.

Just keepin' it real here.

Edited April 30, 2009 by GordieSid&Ted

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

But I don't think Sakic should not be retired in Colorado because he signed an offer sheet either

Um...knowledge of history, poor. Federov didn't just "sign an offer sheet." He went to the media and told the Wings not to match it. And then the second time while saying our offer was an insult to his manhood, he left for LESS money. I guess you had to skew (i.e., ignore) the facts since history didn't support your statement. No one should be retired a Wing who didn't want to be here. If he changes that in the future I'm open to changing my view.

I'm not open to ignoring history. We have such a long line of people who wanted to be here. I don't blame Shanny for leaving, he thought at that point we didn't want him and since Kenny did nothing to change that perception it's hard to argue he was wrong. But Federov was 2/2 for wanting to leave when he had the chance. It makes no sense to hunt him down and say, please Sergi, please can we reward you for not wanting to play here?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I don't blame Shanny for leaving, he thought at that point we didn't want him and since Kenny did nothing to change that perception it's hard to argue he was wrong.

Holland offered Shanny a contract after the '06 season.