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Kwame_Kilpatrick

will wings retire fedorov's 91?

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I'm of the mind when it comes to retiring numbers if you even have to debate the individual, it shouldn't be retired.

I'd love to see both Fedorov and Shanahan's numbers retired but I don't think they should be.

Lidstrom yes. Osgood yes.

Ask me in 5-7 years about Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Pretty much agree with this.

My opinion's always been that hey, #s 1, 7, 9, 10, 12 all contributed to the four Cups in the 50s in one way or another. Why would it be so horrible to have 5, 13, 19, 30, 40 (assuming continued production from 13 and 40) retired from our four (and counting) Cups from 1997-present? That's not relaxing the standards--it's being consistent.

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Because from what I've been reading about the issue in general. Some say that Feds got cocky and left the team.. others say Feds was offered a contract that Detroit pulled on him when he went to sign it.

If it was, in fact, the latter.. then it amazes me.

Not sure if you were paying attention to this day by day like many of us were in 2003 - I'll give you my rendition. (why not - got a week off til more hockey)

During the course of the 02-03 year, the Wings had a 5 year 50 mill offer on the table. Sergei sat around for quite awhile without signing that offer. Some say he was going through his divorce with Anna, so he was '"upset" and needed time to think things over. Not sure about you, but I don't need time to think about 50mill.

At some point, the Wings rescinded that particular offer, a new one came up 4 yrs, 40 mill.

I am fuzzy on this but it might have been after the Wings got swept in the first round by the Ducks. Sergei rejected that too.

Anyhow, several days went by after the July 1 FA signing period and it seemed no other teams wanted to pay 10 mill per year for Feds (at least that's the impression I got). Rumor was he was still negotiating with Detroit.

Several days later his signed with the Ducks for 5 yrs/40 mill. So essentially he could have had 10 mill per year in Detroit but he took 8 mill per year from the Ducks. All the while his agent was spewing that Sergei only wanted to stay in Detroit.

What I as a huge Fedorov fan got from all this, besides a heartache, was that he never wanted or intended to stay with the Wings once he was a FA. That of course is his right, but it pissed the S^&% out of me as a Wings fan, and someone who hoped Feds retired a Wing. There aren't alot of players who have willingly walked from the Wings for less money, but he is the prime example.

The sad thing is, Fedorov has never been half the player he was since he left Detroit. Should have stayed comrade!

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Not sure if you were paying attention to this day by day like many of us were in 2003 - I'll give you my rendition. (why not - got a week off til more hockey)

During the course of the 02-03 year, the Wings had a 5 year 50 mill offer on the table. Sergei sat around for quite awhile without signing that offer. Some say he was going through his divorce with Anna, so he was '"upset" and needed time to think things over. Not sure about you, but I don't need time to think about 50mill.

At some point, the Wings rescinded that particular offer, a new one came up 4 yrs, 40 mill.

I am fuzzy on this but it might have been after the Wings got swept in the first round by the Ducks. Sergei rejected that too.

Anyhow, several days went by after the July 1 FA signing period and it seemed no other teams wanted to pay 10 mill per year for Feds (at least that's the impression I got). Rumor was he was still negotiating with Detroit.

Several days later his signed with the Ducks for 5 yrs/40 mill. So essentially he could have had 10 mill per year in Detroit but he took 8 mill per year from the Ducks. All the while his agent was spewing that Sergei only wanted to stay in Detroit.

What I as a huge Fedorov fan got from all this, besides a heartache, was that he never wanted or intended to stay with the Wings once he was a FA. That of course is his right, but it pissed the S^&% out of me as a Wings fan, and someone who hoped Feds retired a Wing. There aren't alot of players who have willingly walked from the Wings for less money, but he is the prime example.

The sad thing is, Fedorov has never been half the player he was since he left Detroit. Should have stayed comrade!

This, plus the Wings waiting on Feds, while Feds and his agent were toying with the Wings, caused the team to lose out on other possible elite free agents. So Feds doubly screwed the team, and since my loyalties are with the team first, he can eat s*** and retire his number elsewhere.

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This, plus the Wings waiting on Feds, while Feds and his agent were toying with the Wings, caused the team to lose out on other possible elite free agents. So Feds doubly screwed the team, and since my loyalties are with the team first, he can eat s*** and retire his number elsewhere.

yep that pretty much sums up the story. I was a big fan of Feds until he bailed out and screwed the Wings out of signing some other players while he sat there on the contract (hence my aviator). Although his signing with the Ducks probably will be concluded to be more of a blessing in disguise for the Wings (How many threads have been out about Feds and Lang being mentioned in the same sentence as lazy & sucks??). Yeah his track record since leaving the Wings would not characterize a player making 10M a year with his stats since leaving.

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162 games played. 50 goals. 113 assists. 163 points.

In the playoffs.

Four consecutive 20-point performances. In the playoffs. And 3 Cups with the Wings.

Some have thrown around Shanahan -- Shanny? 72 playoff points (44% of Fedorov's total in 65% of the games).

Fedorov's points-per-game in the playoffs eclipsed Yzerman's -- and is almost identical to Howe's.

Further, only 18 players have more playoff points than Fedorov if you only count his resume as a Wing. Of them, only Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Bryan Trottier, Jean Beliveau, and Mario Lemieux have more with just one team. And four of those guys are associated with the Edmonton Oilers dynasty of the 80s.

No, Fedorov isn't a lock. But he should be (and yes, it feels like I've made this argument before...)

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I honestly doubt it, Feds was a great player, and put up a lot of points, but no way can he be mentioned in the same sentence as Yzerman or Howe when it comes to impact on Wings history.

Not even Lidstrom can be mentioned with those 2 in terms of impact on Wings history (although he should be). Feds is 3rd all-time in playoffs points, 4th all-time in regular season points. As mentioned above, 163 points in 162 playoff games is a phenomonal stat.

#91 won't be retired anytime soon, and I believe the same will be the case for Shanahan, Osgood, Holmstrom, Draper, Maltby and McCarty. But eventually that time will come.

One day the Wings will suck. It won't be anytime soon, but one day they will suck. Lidstrom will be gone. Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be gone or aging vets burdened by a high cap number. Ken Holland will be gone. Mike Babcock will be gone. Mike Ilitch will be dead. And we will suck. It might not be for another 10, 20 years. But one day, we will suck. And attendances will plummit. The Joe, or [insert corporate sponsor] Arena will be empty. And fans will look back and reminisce on the teams of this era, and management ("modern", less traditional, less classy management), desperate to reinject some life into the fanbase, to get bums on seats, will start retiring the great old names of the past.

I've just never figured out why everyone hates Fedorov for leaving as an UFA, but when Shanny does the same its "Good luck"

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I've just never figured out why everyone hates Fedorov for leaving as an UFA, but when Shanny does the same its "Good luck"

Contract problems is not exactly a single-time issue with Fedorov, if one recalls his antics years ago. Posts 27 and 28 are very descriptive and to the point as to the deal with Fedorov and the Ducks, and if you objectively read these and consider how straight forward the Shanny UFA thing was (he did not toy with the Wings), you'd see why both are seen in a different light. I'd actually be opposed to Shanny being retired by the Wings as well, but I wouldn't voice near as much opposition or vitriol toward it as I would Fedorov.

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No, Fedorov isn't a lock. But he should be (and yes, it feels like I've made this argument before...)

Lock to have his # hoisted up to the rafters in the Joe, or Feds being inducted into the HOF?

IMO I'd have to say "no" to the 1st portion of the question above, but "yes" to the 2nd portion.

Edited by F.Michael

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Contract problems is not exactly a single-time issue with Fedorov, if one recalls his antics years ago. Posts 27 and 28 are very descriptive and to the point as to the deal with Fedorov and the Ducks, and if you objectively read these and consider how straight forward the Shanny UFA thing was (he did not toy with the Wings), you'd see why both are seen in a different light. I'd actually be opposed to Shanny being retired by the Wings as well, but I wouldn't voice near as much opposition or vitriol toward it as I would Fedorov.

I can't knock Fedorov - I always liked him (wished he would've stayed), but there were times where I questioned his desire/work ethic (something we never questioned with Stevie Y).

That said there was also the long hold-out back in the 97/98 season - that is until the Canes/Karmonos connection offered Feds the massive front-loaded contract (something like $14 million his 1st year then $2 million for the next 5 years)...I'm pretty certain both Holland, & Ilitch weren't happy campers.

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I was just thinking about whose numbers will be going in the rafters last night, here's what i came up with:

Locks: Lidstrom, Osgood

Probable: Shanahan, Zetterberg,Datsyuk (barring something unforseen happening to Z or Pav)

Possible: Fedorov -The messy break up is the only thing that puts him in this category,

Chelios-he played 7 seasons in Montreal and won a cup, 9 in Chicago and won 2 Norris Trophies, 9 in Detroit and won 2 Cups and will probably retire as a Wing....a very unique career, not many hall of famers split their career almost equally among 3 teams

Longshots/too early to tell- Draper, had an A, won 4 cups and made an Olympic team, Franzen- if he can keep up his production for the majority of his 11 year deal

Fedorov deserves to have his number retired WAY before Shanahan... imo. Shanny brought intensity and hardcore grit for MAYBE two seasons. After that he was a glorified, cherry pickin' sniper.

Edited by Broken 16

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One day the Wings will suck. It won't be anytime soon, but one day they will suck. Lidstrom will be gone. Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be gone or aging vets burdened by a high cap number. Ken Holland will be gone. Mike Babcock will be gone. Mike Ilitch will be dead. And we will suck. It might not be for another 10, 20 years. But one day, we will suck. And attendances will plummit. The Joe, or [insert corporate sponsor] Arena will be empty. And fans will look back and reminisce on the teams of this era, and management ("modern", less traditional, less classy management), desperate to reinject some life into the fanbase, to get bums on seats, will start retiring the great old names of the past.

I've just never figured out why everyone hates Fedorov for leaving as an UFA, but when Shanny does the same its "Good luck"

Scary thought, but absolutely correct. Crappy teams with low attendance but at least some semblance of history (or sometimes not) are notorious for retiring numbers that probably don't deserve it to get a cheap sellout out of it. And someday, hopefully a long, long time from now, the Wings will suck.

BTW, the answer to your question is "because most people wanted Feds back but wanted Shanny to leave."

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Wings do not win any of the 3 (97, 98, 02) Cups without Feds..so hell yeah they should retire his number!

Then why didn't the Wings win in '95 or '96? Conversely, Fedorov wins no Cups without the Wings.....

Fedorov - in his prime - was maybe the most dynamic player I've ever seen. I got the feeling later in his time with the Wings that he wasn't leaving it all on the ice (sans 02 where he played great). His antics (hold out in 98, contract dispute in 03) are unfortunate. For that reason alone, the Wings will never retire his number. I could see some kind of tribute to past Wings at some point, but no retirement.

Not sure how people don't see that Shanny was different. Fedorov was drafted a Wing and could have stayed with them his whole career. Shanny came in mid-career as a trade. Fedorov bolted in what still should have been prime years in his career - and pre-cap era where the Wings made an overgenerous offer and he refused. Shanny was a UFA in the twilight of his career - post-cap era where the numbers count. His friend and Captain just retired and he did the right thing by allowing the Wings to go in a different direction with some younger players. Big difference.

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162 games played. 50 goals. 113 assists. 163 points.

In the playoffs.

Four consecutive 20-point performances. In the playoffs. And 3 Cups with the Wings.

Some have thrown around Shanahan -- Shanny? 72 playoff points (44% of Fedorov's total in 65% of the games).

Fedorov's points-per-game in the playoffs eclipsed Yzerman's -- and is almost identical to Howe's.

Further, only 18 players have more playoff points than Fedorov if you only count his resume as a Wing. Of them, only Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Bryan Trottier, Jean Beliveau, and Mario Lemieux have more with just one team. And four of those guys are associated with the Edmonton Oilers dynasty of the 80s.

No, Fedorov isn't a lock. But he should be (and yes, it feels like I've made this argument before...)

I agree - and think Fedorov deserves to go up -- but it certainly won't be for a long time if it ever does happen.

For those bringing up Osgood: Ozzie will need to make the Hall of Fame before his number is retired, which is not guaranteed.

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Lidstrom is the only lock. Osgood is in the probable category. If Z and Datsyuk do indeed stay in Detroit for their entire careers then probably. Shanahan, Federov, Chelios and Draper will not have their numbers retired.

This

My take is if you have to debate it at all it doesn't belong up there.

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Guest GordieSid&Ted
162 games played. 50 goals. 113 assists. 163 points.

In the playoffs.

Four consecutive 20-point performances. In the playoffs. And 3 Cups with the Wings.

Some have thrown around Shanahan -- Shanny? 72 playoff points (44% of Fedorov's total in 65% of the games).

Fedorov's points-per-game in the playoffs eclipsed Yzerman's -- and is almost identical to Howe's.

Further, only 18 players have more playoff points than Fedorov if you only count his resume as a Wing. Of them, only Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Bryan Trottier, Jean Beliveau, and Mario Lemieux have more with just one team. And four of those guys are associated with the Edmonton Oilers dynasty of the 80s.

No, Fedorov isn't a lock. But he should be (and yes, it feels like I've made this argument before...)

............and Dino has 600+ career goals. How many players have accomplished that feat? Just saying that stats don't tell the whole story.

I liken this ridiculously overdone question of whether Feds number should get retired to what Dino Ciccarelli faces with the Hall of Fame.

Are Dino's numbers/accomplishments good enough to get into the Hall of Fame. Hell Yes

Are Sergei's numbers/accomplishments good enough to warrant his number being retired? Yes, I think so.

Did Dino do anything controversial or that might have upset his chances of getting into the HOF? Yup.

Did Feds do anything controversial or that might have upset his chances of getting his jersey retired. I guess its a matter of opinion, but to many the answer is yes, he did.

As a Wings fan first, nobody comes before the organization for me.

That said, there are 3 guys that I would put up there because they have been great players (although not all superstars), they have been great Red Wings, they have accomplished great things and have proven their loyalty to the organization time and time again.

They are

1. Nick Lidstrom

2. Chris Osgood

3. Kris Draper

***Kirk Maltby

All this talk of Chelios and Shanny (2 of my all time favorite hockey players) is just ridiculous. Please stop it people. Hank and Pavs? Are we really discussing them right now? Hell, why not throw Kronwall into that discussion. Way too early so give it a rest people.

In the end none of our opinions matter. We have no say, no control. But as a betting man, I would bet anybody, anything they want and can back up that Fedorov won't ever have his jersey retired by the Wings. And frankly, I can live with that.

Edited by GordieSid&Ted

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Oh please who in their right mind would think Draper should have his jersey retired? Good player who filled his niche but to get your number in the rafters you have to be special, almost define the organization. Thats why Osgood, Chelios and Shanahan should not have their numbers retired either.

As for Federov he was one of my all time favorite Wings, a scary talent and a dominant force(most of the time). However I just have a feeling that he shouldn't have his jersey up there....

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Fedorov was a great player for the Wings and continues to be a great player for the Caps but I see no real reason the Wings should retire his number. If it were up to me I wouldn't he isn't a career player for the Wings like Yzerman was and like Lidsrom and Holmstrom and player like that. He's a great player but he's not a Red Wing anymore so I see no reason the Wings would waste a number retirment on him.

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One day the Wings will suck. It won't be anytime soon, but one day they will suck. Lidstrom will be gone. Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be gone or aging vets burdened by a high cap number. Ken Holland will be gone. Mike Babcock will be gone. Mike Ilitch will be dead. And we will suck. It might not be for another 10, 20 years. But one day, we will suck. And attendances will plummit. The Joe, or [insert corporate sponsor] Arena will be empty. And fans will look back and reminisce on the teams of this era, and management ("modern", less traditional, less classy management), desperate to reinject some life into the fanbase, to get bums on seats, will start retiring the great old names of the past.

I've just never figured out why everyone hates Fedorov for leaving as an UFA, but when Shanny does the same its "Good luck"

Fedorov had two contract disputes and was questioned from time to time about mailing it in.

Also, Detroit has already had a long, dark period where they could have retired more numbers than they did.

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I think Fedorov could be a hall of famer, but don't think his Red Wings jersey should be retired. Having your jersey retired by an organization means you have been dedicated and contributed to that organization in a way only a select few have. Even if Feds point production sloped down like it has in the last few years, but he was still a red wing, then i could see his jersey being lifted, but he went to Anaheim, Columbus and then to the Capitals, where he hasn't dont bad for himself, but still hasn't put up a 25-30 goal season that is/was expected of him.

That said, Fedorov's contract is up at the end of the year...and while it's a longshot, it would be amazing to see him become a wing again. I say that if he finishes his career in detroit, give him a second chance, and then maybe his jersey will be lifted to the rafters.

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