ATTA BOY KOPECKY

[EuroTwin 240]

Holy s***! He's a lefty?!!

Oh my god that Picture is the very definition of FML.

Ok, I am now a fan. Didn't back down from the challenge. Realized the opportunity. Did his best.

EuroTwin is going to lose control of something major.

Okay, I nearly spit my coffee all over my computer screen when I read that. Just like I almost spit my beer all over my computer screen when I saw Koko drop the gloves last night.

The more I think about it, the more proud I am for him, even though he lost. I don't think there was a 'perfect time' for him to fight anyone last night, but I gotta give props for both of them dropping their gloves AND taking off their visors/helmets. I appreciate that Koko didn't back down, and that he took out one of their top four Dmen for five minutes with less than 8 minutes left in the game. And I appreciate (weird as it) that it ended quickly. If it had turned into some kind of epic struggle for many minutes, with Koko eventually losing (or winning) the crowd would have got into it more.

It could have been better. But it could have been worse too. I guess I'm still on a joyous high from the game.

[esteef 2,679]

Yet, all the Wings players aside from Rafalksi (whose injury is yet TBD) who started the playoffs are still just fine. Hmm.

We're talking about 2007 right now? But with regard to your comment, this is why they SHOULD have Parros in right now, to do some damage against these non-Rafalski caliber d-men.

esteef

[lets go pavel 2]

Yet, all the Wings players aside from Rafalksi (whose injury is yet TBD) who started the playoffs are still just fine. Hmm.

I know, I'm not saying if you take one guy out of the D the rest will fall apart. But really, as a defenseman, isn't it more challenging to play against a more aggressive and physical team? And if you're icing multiple young and inexperienced defensemen, as we were 2 years ago, wouldn't that compound the difficulty?

[norrisnick 1]

We're talking about 2007 right now? But with regard to your comment, this is why they SHOULD have Parros in right now, to do some damage against these non-Rafalski caliber d-men.

esteef

George can't catch them. And he can't soften up what he can't catch. It's why Downey is a liability. Every big hit he throws is a potential interference call as he's miles behind the play.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Never said they did. I don't care who was playing for the Wings, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the Ducks physically outmatched the Wings and moved on. If Schneider and Kronwall were in, (a lesser Kronwall mind you), they would've been getting smacked around with all the other guys. That's the Ducks game, and it usually works against Detroit.

esteef

That's the game that *has* worked against Detroit in the past. The jury's still out on this season's squad.

But the Wings most certainly showed they can handle a grind last year regardless of them not matching up with ANA or CAL, etc.

[esteef 2,679]

George can't catch them. And he can't soften up what he can't catch. It's why Downey is a liability. Every big hit he throws is a potential interference call as he's miles behind the play.

FYI, the Wings are not skating circles around Anaheim right now, and neither did San Jose. The entire game is not played on the rush.

esteef

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

We're talking about 2007 right now? But with regard to your comment, this is why they SHOULD have Parros in right now, to do some damage against these non-Rafalski caliber d-men.

esteef

I thought we've been flipping between both.

We're talking about 2007 right now? But with regard to your comment, this is why they SHOULD have Parros in right now, to do some damage against these non-Rafalski caliber d-men.

esteef

And at the same time get caught on the wrong side of the play and expose Hiller to higher percentage shots? Take penalties?

The Ducks are a rough-and-tough team, no doubt....Parros isn't going to put them "over the top" in the grit/toughness department, they're already there.

[Turretin 0]

That's the game that *has* worked against Detroit in the past. The jury's still out.

But the Wings most certainly showed they can handle a grind last year regardless of them not matching up with ANA or CAL, etc.

To me, they showed it in 07. Calgary, SJ, ANA = brutal. Those were tough series, and I think it was essential to the maturation of the team. They needed to believe that they could win with there style. Now they do.

Can those calling for more toughness just admit that we're not going to do it with this roster?

[lets go pavel 2]

Can those calling for more toughness just admit that we're not going to do it with this roster?

I don't think anyone's disputing that ...

[Guest micah]

Fixed.

It's clear you view the 70s and 80s as the hey-day of the NHL, but that is really only one small chapter. Enforcers did not exist in the league until expansion, which watered down the overall talent in the league enough that teams could bring in someone less skilled to play that role. Like it or not, as the sport of hockey expands internationally, more and more talent will be coming into the NHL, and once again we will see the enforcer all but disappear. The only way to combat this is with expansion - so you better be hoping Bettman succeeds in putting an NHL team in every major city.

Dino Ciccarelli is no bigger than Holmstrom, and stood up to those guys, so I see no reason why Holmstrom would not be able to... especially since Holmstrom was also very effective in the 90s, against much bigger guys than you listed.

I am undecided on the instigator rule as of now (I was against it for a long time). I now actually think helmets contributed more to the increase of dangerous cheap shotting than the instigator rule has. But like it or not, both helmets and the instigator rule are here to stay. and cheap shots certainly existed before 1992.

You love fighting, and while I like it, I love hitting more -- and I do not think someone like George Parros should be able to pummel someone like Pavel Datsyuk because Datsyuk legally hits Teemu Selanne.

Dino is a great example of what I'm talking about. Look at how many FMs he had before the instigator rule and how many he had after if you can. As I recall, he got his ass kicked a few times a year until there was a rule passed to protect guys just like him. Dino did something that I'm unconvinced Homer can or would do - get beat up by thugs and not let it affect his game. Dino was very tough, and very brave. Maybe Holmstrom would be just as good at and willing to take a beating as Dino was. I doubt it, but maybe.

Also recall that Dino has bigger, stronger men who were there to protect him. Carlson, Plett, Mandich, Rouse, McRae, Zemlak et al. I'm okay with teams having guys who are unwilling to or unable to fight - but I think thatr there should be a cost with that - provide someone to stick up for them. The Navy Supply ships are poorly armed, but they're well protected by other ships with different roles. That's how the NHL was. That was better.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I know, I'm not saying if you take one guy out of the D the rest will fall apart. But really, as a defenseman, isn't it more challenging to play against a more aggressive and physical team? And if you're icing multiple young and inexperienced defensemen, as we were 2 years ago, wouldn't that compound the difficulty?

Depends on their talent level. If you're icing a bunch of goons and the other team has the ability to make a good first pass, the team of goons is in trouble.

I know, I'm not saying if you take one guy out of the D the rest will fall apart. But really, as a defenseman, isn't it more challenging to play against a more aggressive and physical team? And if you're icing multiple young and inexperienced defensemen, as we were 2 years ago, wouldn't that compound the difficulty?

In this case, I would agree.....but the Wings are icing a far superior defense *currently* than they were when DET and ANA met up in the WCF's.

Lids-E

Kronwall-Stuart

Lebda-Chelios

vs.

Lids-Markov

Chelios-Lilja

Lebda-Meech

[norrisnick 1]

FYI, the Wings are not skating circles around Anaheim right now, and neither did San Jose. The entire game is not played on the rush.

esteef

Parros can't outskate the Wings. He most definitely can't outskate their puck movement.

[Turretin 0]

Dino did something that I'm unconvinced Homer can or would do - get beat up by thugs and not let it affect his game. Dino was very tough, and very brave. Maybe Holmstrom would be just as good at and willing to take a beating as Dino was. I doubt it, but maybe.

Dino did what he had to do to be effective in his era. Homer does what he has to do to be effective in his era. Salute them both because the both take/took a pounding in their own way and stay on their game. That's what pisses other teams off about Homer, they keep cross checking him, and he doesn't respond. Then they go to far and the Wings get a PP. In year's past, Homer would get a tip in or rebound on the ensuring PP.

Homer would do whatever he had to to stay in the league. Comparing eras is dubious at best.

[lets go pavel 2]

Depends on their talent level. If you're icing a bunch of goons and the other team has the ability to make a good first pass, the team of goons is in trouble.

In this case, I would agree.....but the Wings are icing a far superior defense *currently* than they were when DET and ANA met up in the WCF's.

Lids-E

Kronwall-Stuart

Lebda-Chelios

vs.

Lids-Markov

Chelios-Lilja

Lebda-Meech

Yup, I agree. Currently we have the skill to work around their physical play.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Yup, I agree. Currently we have the skill to work around their physical play.

Don't misunderstand me (and I know this isn't what you were insinuating), the Wings *absolutely* need a relentless forecheck and strong physical play in front of Hiller. That's the toughness combined with their skill level that will beat this ANA team.

[egroen 384]

Yup, I agree. Currently we have the skill to work around their physical play.

The Ducks and Wings have gone about building a team the right way - They pick a style of play and players that will compliment that style and incorporate it into their drafting, trades and player development. I would argue the Wings have been much more successful, however.

That does not mean a skilled euro like Selanne does not compliment the Ducks or that a power forward like Bobby Ryan would not compliment the Wings. The Wings have drafted with an entirely different set of parameters than the Ducks have -- having traded picks often for free agents (to help stay on top) and late round picks when they do possess them. Large, skilled players are often the first to go - especially prior to the lockout. Getzlaff, Perry and Ryan are all first round picks.

Edited May 8, 2009 by egroen

[Frozen-Man 144]

I'm just loving all these fighters this year getting good playoff ice time and NOT being detriments to their teams as some here would have people believe. Fighter on team =/= instant penalty, loss.

esteef

edit: Gordie beat me to it!

I don't think that there are that many fighters getting good playoff time especially in their roles as a fighter. No one has had more than 1 fight so far in the playoffs so I wouldn't say there has been that much. There has been 58 playoff games and only 14 fights so roughly 1 fight every 4.1 games. Parros has been on the ice a total of 38:50 for the entire playoffs, Getzlaf had 9 second more ice time in one game, 38:59 in game two of this series, then Parros' time on the ice for the entire playoffs. In fact, Parros has less average TOI for the playoffs than Chelios does.

[Broken 16 381]

No, I haven't ... what's your point? I asked for an explanation, not a smart-ass comment.

I'll ask again, what does Kopecky getting his ass handed to him have to do with playing on a winning team?

I've played on many hockey teams in my day. Nothing super serious, but very competitive. On every team, there is at least one player that is obviously less talented and is under scrutiny. They know they don't bring as much to the table as the rest of the other guys. Those players know who they are. Kopecky is that guy. He knows he's that guy. His team mates know he's that guy. When a guy like that does what he did, it brings the team together a little bit more. They all appreciate his dedication and his willingness. That's what helps create chemistry.

[8 Legged RedWing 367]

I've played on many hockey teams in my day. Nothing super serious, but very competitive. On every team, there is at least one player that is obviously less talented and is under scrutiny. They know they don't bring as much to the table as the rest of the other guys. Those players know who they are. Kopecky is that guy. He knows he's that guy. His team mates know he's that guy. When a guy like that does what he did, it brings the team together a little bit more. They all appreciate his dedication and his willingness. That's what helps create chemistry.

Exactly, and as everyone was saying earlier, I wouldnt put it past him to be conscious that he was taking out a top 4 D men at the time. Good job Kopy

[j.hoop 64]

hell yeah props to kopecky, hes a wiley SOB, he had to have known he wasnt gonna win that fight, and i bet ya he knew taking out beauch would be wise. top 4 guy gone for 5 minutes, props! at least it was entertaining

[Dabura 12,207]

That was my initial reaction - why are we fighting now when the last thing we want to do is give Anaheim any kind of spark or reason to get motivated?

I'll take a fired up crowd over a #4 defenseman.

Good job, Kopecky.

[lets go pavel 2]

I've played on many hockey teams in my day. Nothing super serious, but very competitive. On every team, there is at least one player that is obviously less talented and is under scrutiny. They know they don't bring as much to the table as the rest of the other guys. Those players know who they are. Kopecky is that guy. He knows he's that guy. His team mates know he's that guy. When a guy like that does what he did, it brings the team together a little bit more. They all appreciate his dedication and his willingness. That's what helps create chemistry.

I see ... I don't disgree with that, I think most people have been pretty quick to say good for him for sticking up for himself/teammates. I can buy the chemistry/sacrifice benefit. The fight itself, though ... pretty brutal. The timing of it ... debatable. Effective at deterring future physicality from the Ducks ... highly unlkely.

[Broken 16 381]

And to those who say "But he got his ass kicked. It was pathetic. It was an embarrassment."

It doesn't matter. At the very least, the rest of the team will rib him and get a good laugh out of it (assuming he isn't seriously hurt). Things like that loosen a team up and get them together.

Now, if he is seriously injured. It still works towards chemistry. Maybe more so. Then the "Lets do it for Kopy" mentality kicks in. No matter how you slice it, Kopy helped our team. He found a way to contribute. Sounds corny, but I'm proud as hell of him.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Broken 16

[Broken 16 381]

I see ... I don't disgree with that, I think most people have been pretty quick to say good for him for sticking up for himself/teammates. I can buy the chemistry/sacrifice benefit. The fight itself, though ... pretty brutal. The timing of it ... debatable. Effective at deterring future physicality from the Ducks ... highly unlkely.

Luckily, none of that stuff matters. Kopy is already on record saying that he didn't know he was a lefty. That's ******* hilarious. I guarantee you that Red Wing cliques are converging and laughing their asses off about that. That's classic.

[Dabura 12,207]

I see ... I don't disgree with that, I think most people have been pretty quick to say good for him for sticking up for himself/teammates. I can buy the chemistry/sacrifice benefit. The fight itself, though ... pretty brutal. The timing of it ... debatable. Effective at deterring future physicality from the Ducks ... highly unlkely.

Fights are rarely just about the fights themselves; they're games within games, strategically speaking. And from a strategic standpoint, I thought this was a smart move on Kopy's part. As other have already said, the Wings lost a scrub while the Ducks lost a #4 defenseman -- definitely a worthwhile trade. Sure, the crowd might have gotten riled up, but the Wings are simply too experienced and professional to let the home crowd get to them.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Dabura