Pittsburgh Penguins advance to Stanley Cup Finals

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Hopefully the Wings can dispense with the formalities tomorrow and we can begin this discussion in earnest.

In the meantime, good job Pens, you handled the Canes pretty easily.

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

If you want to assimilate into the LGW faithful, insulting them is usually not the best course of action.

Not looking to troll. But assimilate? Not interested.

I will say that this is the only opponent board I ever post on because of the (relative) class and (usually) intelligent hockey discussion.

Is that a little better?

[Zack is Great 14]

Not looking to troll. But assimilate? Not interested.

I will say that this is the only opponent board I ever post on because of the (relative) class and (usually) intelligent hockey discussion.

Is that a little better?

You're better than the Blackhawks fans at least.

oh, how I do love their inferiority complexes. Detoilet, Detwat, Sucktown (Original, huh?)

You guys... You're all right.

[Shaman 713]

Not looking to troll. But assimilate? Not interested.

I will say that this is the only opponent board I ever post on because of the (relative) class and (usually) intelligent hockey discussion.

Is that a little better?

My point is, hes really not even in the same league as Detroit's normal forwards, let alone the Wings best Defensive forwards. And yet VS make it sound like he was doing a great job against a Canes team that didn't really score, and not because of him, from what i could see.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Shaman464

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

My point is, hes really not even in the same league as Detroit's normal forwards, let alone the Wings best Defensive forwards. And yet VS make it sound like he was doing a great job against a Canes team that didn't really score, and not because of him, from what i could see.

I don't know man. A huge reason the Pens have made it this far is the 3rd line's puck possession in the offensive zone.

[Shaman 713]

I don't know man. A huge reason the Pens have made it this far is the 3rd line's puck possession in the offensive zone.

Id have to say it has more to do with your 2 superstars carrying your team, despite average Defense, inconsistent goaltending, and a lack of depth both at forward (the fact the Pens don't even roll 4 real lines points to this) and on the blue line.

[C-TownWing 0]

Am I the only person here a little nervous about Pittsburgh?

Not at all.

Tight series after they got the number of the truck that hit them in games 1 and 2 last year + revenge factor (for the series loss and Hossa) + Malkin playing much, much better than he was last year at this time + injuries to key players on our side + them having experience this time around = you get the idea...

This is going to be a much tougher series than last year--we're going to need everyone healthy and pulling on the rope (you too, Pav) to win again.*

* IF we beat Chicago. Still 1 win to go, in case anyone forgot.

[Doggy 130]

My point is, hes really not even in the same league as Detroit's normal forwards, let alone the Wings best Defensive forwards. And yet VS make it sound like he was doing a great job against a Canes team that didn't really score, and not because of him, from what i could see.

Define "normal forwards". I think there are only a handful of Wings forwards that are better defensively than Staal. He's about as good as Maltby in terms of positioning (particularly on the PK) but his forecheck is far and away better. Maybe not like a Datsyuk or Zetterberg but he's just a kid. I honestly can see him as a Guy Carbonneau type player once he full develops.

It seems to me like you are quick to put down Jordan Staal's abilities just because of some stats.

[Shaman 713]

Define "normal forwards". I think there are only a handful of Wings forwards that are better defensively than Staal. He's about as good as Maltby in terms of positioning (particularly on the PK) but his forecheck is far and away better. Maybe not like a Datsyuk or Zetterberg but he's just a kid. I honestly can see him as a Guy Carbonneau type player once he full develops.

It seems to me like you are quick to put down Jordan Staal's abilities just because of some stats.

Id say the following forwards are at a higher level defensively from Detroit: Flip, Helm, Draper, Zetterberg, Dats, Hossa, Maltby, and Cleary. And by normal, i meant like the ones on Detroit who are on the ice for other purposes then just to shut down the other teams top players.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Shaman464

[Doggy 130]

Id say the following forwards are at a higher level defensively from Detroit: Flip, Helm, Draper, Zetterberg, Dats, Hossa, Maltby, and Cleary. And by normal, i meant like the ones on Detroit who are on the ice for other purposes then just to shut down the other teams top players.

I agree with you on Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa. Draper, Cleary and Flip are all kinda close. Helm's not even in Staal's league though so now I know you're judging with bias.

[Shaman 713]

I agree with you on Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa. Draper, Cleary and Flip are all kinda close. Helm's not even in Staal's league though so now I know you're judging with bias.

I guess I am biased against Staal at this point, but, I am also tired of hearing how every player from Pittsburgh is the greatest ever at what they do, but, seeing as you agree that 6 out of 7 are better, if only a little. It goes a long way towards proving my original point that VS are blowing how great every player on the Pens way out of proportion.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Shaman464

[Doggy 130]

I guess I am biased against Staal at this point, but, I am also tired of hearing how every player from Pittsburgh is the greatest ever at what they do, but, seeing as you agree that 6 out of 7 are better, if only a little. It goes a long way towards proving my original point that VS are blowing how great every player on the Pens way out of proportion.

Yeah well the Wings get a lot of props too. I haven't heard anything about Staal on VS that I thought was way out of proportion. I do however see literally hundreds of complaints from Wings fans about every broadcasting network that isn't FSD so I take this one with a grain of salt.

There are some great players in Detroit, no doubt but just because you don't see other teams much, doesn't mean there aren't great players elsewhere.

[Pensfan 0]

Id say the following forwards are at a higher level defensively from Detroit: Flip, Helm, Draper, Zetterberg, Dats, Hossa, Maltby, and Cleary. And by normal, i meant like the ones on Detroit who are on the ice for other purposes then just to shut down the other teams top players.

Staal - 20 years old (Start of NHL at 17 "81 games played that year")

Filppula - 25 years old (Start of NHL at 21 "4 games played that year")

Helm - 22 years old (Star of NHL at 20 "7 games played that year")

Draper - 38 years old (start of NHL at 19 "3 games played that year")

Zetterberg - 28 Years old (Start of NHL at 22)

Datsyuk - 30 years old (Start of NHL at 23)

Hossa - 30 years old (Start of NHL at 18 "7 games played that year")

Maltby - 36 years old (Start of NHL at 21)

Cleary - 30 years old (Start of NHL at 19 "6 games played that year")

I would hope your forwards are at a higher level than a 20 year old.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Pensfan

[Shaman 713]

Yeah well the Wings get a lot of props too. I haven't heard anything about Staal on VS that I thought was way out of proportion. I do however see literally hundreds of complaints from Wings fans about every broadcasting network that isn't FSD so I take this one with a grain of salt.

There are some great players in Detroit, no doubt but just because you don't see other teams much, doesn't mean there aren't great players elsewhere.

I agree, Malkin and Crosby are both great, Id give my left nut to see Ovie in a wings Jersey, and thats just 3 examples, but, I know some Pittsburgh fans who would back me up at this point Staal is over paid for what he does.

[PavelIsMoney 0]

Is this really a suprise? It could have been pitts or the caps either way. East is so weak compared to the west, it's not even comparible anymore.

[Theophany 110]

YOU try matching up against the opponent's #1 line every shift while trying to score with Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy on your wing. I thought you guys knew more about hockey than reading a box score.

Sure. Take Datsyuk's +/-. He's usually placed to shut down the opposing 'best' on D, and he's still +4, despite completely disappearing on the attack in the past 2 series.

Oh, and Homer and Hossa (when they were paired with him) disappeared too.

Staal isn't as good as you and other Pens fans think he is. Average at best by the Wings' standards.

You could also take Franzen's, or Zata's, etc, but I don't think you want to do that, since they're at +10 and +11, respectively.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Theophany

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

Let's be honest. What do they have on us? Crosby and Malkin? Big deal. Those players are great, and I'm not saying they aren't, but two amazing forwards does not make a team. And as forwards, they are both pretty one way and not so great on defense. We have Datsyuk (hopefully), Hossa, Franzen, Z, Filp (as of recently), and Cleary who can all score as well as play defense to ensure that Malkin and Crosby will not. Other than those two players, we have Ericsson, Lidstrom (again, hopefully back soon), Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart on defense. What do they have that compares to that? And we have a very solid goalie in Ozzie, and even Conklin if need be.

Sure they say the Pens are hungry this year, but so are the Wings. They are hungry to shut up the haters this year. Hossa is even more hungry to shut up the Pens and their fans that act like crazy jealous exes. Sure the Pens got some experience in the finals last year...but the Wings got the experience of winning which is even more important.

[Yzerman#19 17]

So for the second straight year the Penguins will advance to the SCF. Discuss...

Gross.

[Dabura 12,207]

With the way the Wings decide to play when they feel like it, the Pens could easily grab that and run.

I question your use of "easily" in this sentence.

[Pensfan 0]

Sure. Take Datsyuk's +/-. He's usually placed to shut down the opposing 'best' on D, and he's still +4, despite completely disappearing on the attack in the past 2 series.

Oh, and Homer and Hossa (when they were paired with him) disappeared too.

Staal isn't as good as you and other Pens fans think he is. Average at best by the Wings' standards.

You could also take Franzen's, or Zata's, etc, but I don't think you want to do that, since they're at +10 and +11, respectively.

Why was Datsyuk in his third season (the same as Staal is currently) a -3 on the year? While Staal was a +5? ...And Datsyuk had 19 more points than Staal.

You're right, Staal's a bum. Trade the 20 year old.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Pensfan

[Theophany 110]

I question your use of "easily" in this sentence.

He forgot this:

('Easily' in this case means the Wings play like complete s*** and the Pens play perfect hockey* in the full 60 minutes. Crosby and Malkin will both need hat tricks.)

* = perfect hockey in this case means how the Wings normally play.

[Dabura 12,207]

Let's be honest. What do they have on us? Crosby and Malkin? Big deal. Those players are great, and I'm not saying they aren't, but two amazing forwards does not make a team. And as forwards, they are both pretty one way and not so great on defense. We have Datsyuk (hopefully), Hossa, Franzen, Z, Filp (as of recently), and Cleary who can all score as well as play defense to ensure that Malkin and Crosby will not. Other than those two players, we have Ericsson, Lidstrom (again, hopefully back soon), Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart on defense. What do they have that compares to that? And we have a very solid goalie in Ozzie, and even Conklin if need be.

I feel like Hossa alone gives us an edge. I mean, really, does anyone here honestly think he'll allow the Wings to lose against the Pens? He'll carry the whole team on his back if he has to.

[Dabura 12,207]

He forgot this:

('Easily' in this case means the Wings play like complete s*** and the Pens play perfect hockey* in the full 60 minutes. Crosby and Malkin will both need hat tricks.)

* = perfect hockey in this case means how the Wings normally play.

This I can agree with.

[PavelIsMoney 0]

Lol I was hoping for a different team in the east this year. I can't see any reason why pitts will beat detroit this year, either. Most likely going to be a similar series. Detroit dominance in every aspect.

[Theophany 110]

Why was Datsyuk in his third season (the same as Staal is currently) a -3 on the year? While Staal was a +5?

You're right, Staal's a bum. Trade the 20 year old.

Age isn't relevant in this conversation. We're not talking about future prospects, we're talking about the likelihood that the Pens will win the Cup.

And it's almost nil. No depth = screwed against the Wings.

Don't get me wrong, they might take us to 6 or 7 games (might), but they won't win unless the Wings disappear.

Turning the point to a player's age when it's not relevant to the topic won't win you points for intelligence in my book.