Crosby and Malkin... who are they?

[Barrie 900]

Their ATOI is still ~21:00. That's actually less ice time than we give to Zata, Lids, Rafalski, Stuart, and Kronwall per game. I don't think it will be an issue.

I'm very surprised Crosby and Malkin don't kill penalties. Your best players should be out there in every situation.

[truebladearmy 33]

I don't know? Each had 28 pts going in to tonights game. The hype might be warranted. The hype may over shadow the wings, but who cares as long as we win. :beerbuddy:

They double shift them, and have played garbage teams all playoff long. Not shocking, nor really impressive that they racked up so many points.

I saw a breakdown of points by ice time, and it wasn't that impressive. They've had the luxury of putting crosby and malkin out against other teams 3rd and 4th lines, but they haven't faced 3rd and 4th lines like Detroit has until now.

[Firehawk 305]

Crosby and Malkin are every bit as good as their hype. The experience, leadership, depth and defensive ability on our team makes all the league's super stars look average. Not much room to work with when your facing Lidstrom and Rafalski, Zetterberg, Mule, Hudler, Osgood.

Again, they're every bit as good as their hype...... When they're playing Eastern Conference Opponents.

As I said in another thread somewhere last night, If they were in the Western Conference, they would not appear as good at first (as we see when they play Detroit), but their game would adjust and they'd become better players.

I do not think Crosby and Malkin are complete 2 way players YET. They'll get there, and when they do, they'll win their share of cups. But, they're not there yet. The wings know how to shut them down, and so far, they have done a great job. Malkin's assist on the goal was a heads up play by a great forward, but he's not going to get chances like that often in this series.

Crosby was shut down pretty well last night. I thought along with everything else, the wings did give up too many pucks and the few chances Crosby had were a direct result of the bad turnovers.

[Firehawk 305]

They double shift them, and have played garbage teams all playoff long. Not shocking, nor really impressive that they racked up so many points.

I saw a breakdown of points by ice time, and it wasn't that impressive. They've had the luxury of putting crosby and malkin out against other teams 3rd and 4th lines, but they haven't faced 3rd and 4th lines like Detroit has until now.

YOu know what's interesting? A caller brought this up on the radio yesterday.

1997 - Wings defeat Philadelphia to win cup.

1998 - Wings defeat Washington to win cup.

2002 - Wings defeat Carolina to win cup.

2008 - Wings defeat Pittsburgh to win cup.

Eastern Conference Opponents for Pittsburgh in 2009:

Round 1 - Philadelphia

Round 2 - Washington

Round 3 - Carolina

What a coincidence that was...

[The Secret 304]

Again, they're every bit as good as their hype...... When they're playing Eastern Conference Opponents.

As I said in another thread somewhere last night, If they were in the Western Conference, they would not appear as good at first (as we see when they play Detroit), but their game would adjust and they'd become better players.

I do not think Crosby and Malkin are complete 2 way players YET. They'll get there, and when they do, they'll win their share of cups. But, they're not there yet. The wings know how to shut them down, and so far, they have done a great job. Malkin's assist on the goal was a heads up play by a great forward, but he's not going to get chances like that often in this series.

Crosby was shut down pretty well last night. I thought along with everything else, the wings did give up too many pucks and the few chances Crosby had were a direct result of the bad turnovers.

I think your probably right, all through the play offs the Pens haven't even come close to a team as deep, as skilled and as defensive minded as our Red Wings. More memorable to me then any chances that Crosby or Malkin generated was watching Hossa's lighting quick back check... man Hoss was flying in both directions last night, stealing pucks, hard shots.... or Helm who is getting better and tougher every game. Anyway, The OP made it sound like Crosby and Malkin were all hype and its simply not true, they are looking human due to the effort from our team, give them something to work with and the will make us pay. They are better then they were last year but as impossible as the media might make it sound, so are we... in every way!

[mru22 1]

Can all you f**ktards (NBC, Bettman, Pens fans) who kiss these two on the ass now realize how all they are is hype?? THEY BROUGHT NOTHING!!!!! I repeat, NOTHING!!!! All I see out of Crosby is a decent backhand. I wonder how he practices his backhand???

They were shut down and we didn't even play that great! Give me Pavel any day over either of them! Even when he isn't scoring he is dazzling the other team with his puck handling skills, forechecking, backchecking and all around play.

Way to go Wings! (and hurry back Datsuk!!!!)

I dont think they are hype. I just think Detroit is so good that they can hold most players "In check" no pun intended. Plus I think the supporting cast is average at best.

GO WINGS!

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

This morning on TSN's Sportsdesk, they kindly showed an interesting video: at the end of the game, when the DRW are skating to congratulate Osgood, it shows Crosby making sure he yaps at both Maltby and Conlkin, just before Crosby leaves the ice.

[DRW Dominance 255]

Crosby will be dominated by our 5 man unit every time. I thought the Malkin line last night was pretty good. We need Pavs back to take care of him.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Um, they are two of the best hockey players in the world right now. When you are two of the best hockey players in the world, you are worth the hype.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

From Game One

Faceoffs won: Detroit-71%, Pittsburgh-29%, with Malkin-44% and Crosby-30%.

[ifonlyicouldskate 11]

YOu know what's interesting? A caller brought this up on the radio yesterday.

1997 - Wings defeat Philadelphia to win cup.

1998 - Wings defeat Washington to win cup.

2002 - Wings defeat Carolina to win cup.

2008 - Wings defeat Pittsburgh to win cup.

Eastern Conference Opponents for Pittsburgh in 2009:

Round 1 - Philadelphia

Round 2 - Washington

Round 3 - Carolina

What a coincidence that was...

WOW you are right, I can't believe this didn't come up before.

[Sal33n 0]

The Wings did a bang-up job for the most part on them. But I guess you missed the brilliant steal Malkin made to set up the only goal, or Crosby hitting the post and the puck somehow landing on Osgood's back like it was made of velcro -- not to mention the penalty shot that should've been awarded once his teammate's hand touched the puck in the crease? Maybe you should add "luck" to the list along with your other two theories.

It wasn't a steal. It was a very bad board pass by the Wings that practically went right to his stick.

I have never seen that happen with a puck landing on top of a goalie's back. I could argue that being a penalty shot though. Honestly, what would you do if you were in that situation? The puck is on top of your goalie... do you just sit there and let the other team just whack on top your goalie's back????? Come on. You tell me what other choice they had. Jumping on a puck in the crease is a lot different then a puck sitting "on" your goalie's body.

As far as luck goes, that goes along with the part of my post saying that they didn't even play that great last night. So yes there was some luck there. Doesn't discount the fact that your superstars were shut down.

[Snazzy 0]

Who are these Getzlaf and Perry guys? Honestly, I've never heard of them.

Of course you wouldn't know.. you would have to watch teams other than Crosby and the Pittsburgh Penguins to learn other players around the league. I know it's hard for you to fathom, but there are other teams in NHL other than Penguins.

Getlaf is the only the best power forward in the game, not too mention his mad defensive skills. But you wouldn't know that, Pens know nothing about defensive forwards.

[Theophany 110]

Of course you wouldn't know.. you would have to watch teams other than Crosby and the Pittsburgh Penguins to learn other players around the league. I know it's hard for you to fathom, but there are other teams in NHL other than Penguins.

Getlaf is the only the best power forward in the game, not too mention his mad defensive skills. But you wouldn't know that, Pens know nothing about defensive forwards.

Honestly, you're giving Getzlaf and Perry too much credit for the system that Anaheim plays. That's what made that series so difficult for us.

Getzlaf is a great forward, don't get me wrong, but he wasn't the source of all of their scoring and defensive pressure. Most of their success came from shutting down our rebound opportunities with Neidermayer and Pronger in front of Hiller, who's actual stopping power is ridiculous, but his rebound control is awful.

Getzlaf isn't the best power forward in the game, BTW.

[Snazzy 0]

Honestly, you're giving Getzlaf and Perry too much credit for the system that Anaheim plays. That's what made that series so difficult for us.

Getzlaf is a great forward, don't get me wrong, but he wasn't the source of all of their scoring and defensive pressure. Most of their success came from shutting down our rebound opportunities with Neidermayer and Pronger in front of Hiller, who's actual stopping power is ridiculous, but his rebound control is awful.

Getzlaf isn't the best power forward in the game, BTW.

Oh this should be fun. Who is the best power forward in the game then?

You don't give Getzlaf enough credit, whenever he was on the ice, he made s*** happen. As the game wore on, Getz wore down... due to the extreme ice time. I hate Getz, but I would love to have him on this team (but it'll probably never happen).

Back to my point, Getlaf and Perry were much more of threat in every game of that 7 game series as Crosby and Malkin were in the past 7 we played them in the finals.

Bottom line, Crosby is good, but Zetterberg is better.

[Dynheart 42]

I'm not understanding this luck thing. People here, mainly pens fans, throwing the word luck around like it's a bad thing. There's a saying: "It's better to be lucky than good", and it's true. But there's also another saying: "In order to be lucky, you have to be good".

These 2 teams are crazy skilled. I'ms sorry, but if your expecting tape to tape tic-tac passes and to the back of the net against the wings/pens then your going to be disappointed. It's gonna be all about luck, and that's what wins though games. Pretty plays aren't going to dictate this series, luck is. And to be lucky you have to good enough to create that luck, end of story.

About Crosby/Malkin...they are good. Very good. They were able to expose the defense, or lack thereof, against their first three opponents (look at the scores...high scoring games). But they are going against a much MUCH better defensive team. Not only that, but a team whos defense is more offensive (forwards that is) than half the league. If Crosby and Malkin are the star players that I think them to be, it's only a matter of time before they develop a 2-way game. Maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but when they do...the wings defense will have more than a hand full.

Anyhoo, that's my take.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Dynheart

[ComradeWasabi 109]

These 2 teams are crazy skilled. I'ms sorry, but if your expecting tape to tape tic-tac passes and to the back of the net against the wings/pens then your going to be disappointed. It's gonna be all about luck, and that's what wins though games. Pretty plays aren't going to dictate this series, luck is. And to lucky you have to good enough to create that luck, end of story.

Dirty playoff goals are where it's at. People are critical of Detroit's style of scoring; garbage goals in front of the net which are said to be boring.. but hey, they win hockey games.

[Firehawk 305]

Of course you wouldn't know.. you would have to watch teams other than Crosby and the Pittsburgh Penguins to learn other players around the league. I know it's hard for you to fathom, but there are other teams in NHL other than Penguins.

Getlaf is the only the best power forward in the game, not too mention his mad defensive skills. But you wouldn't know that, Pens know nothing about defensive forwards.

Wow, are you really defending a star on Anaheim? lol

[Guest L3T5G0W1NG5]

lol one game and some of u guys are already counting them out. they didnt get 28 pts for no reason. i am still scared of them and i will be until the series is over, u never know what they can produce.

[Casey 145]

It wasn't a steal. It was a very bad board pass by the Wings that practically went right to his stick.

I have never seen that happen with a puck landing on top of a goalie's back. I could argue that being a penalty shot though. Honestly, what would you do if you were in that situation? The puck is on top of your goalie... do you just sit there and let the other team just whack on top your goalie's back????? Come on. You tell me what other choice they had. Jumping on a puck in the crease is a lot different then a puck sitting "on" your goalie's body.

As far as luck goes, that goes along with the part of my post saying that they didn't even play that great last night. So yes there was some luck there. Doesn't discount the fact that your superstars were shut down.

I'd argue against a penalty shot using the language of the rule- the puck has to be on the ice when you cover it. On the goalie is not on the ice.

[Firehawk 305]

WHat I don't understand is why people aren't talking about the soft goals that Fleury gave up. He's the reason they lost the game if you ask me. The rest of the team was hanging with the Wings very well. Fleury's poor positional play cost them the game, and will once again, cost them the series.

If Ozzie had let those goals in yesterday, we'd be all over his case. I've already seen some posts about the one goal he allowed on 32 shots, in which he more than made up for and stole that game for us yesterday when we were trapped in our zone several times last night.

[Firehawk 305]

I'm not understanding this luck thing. People here, mainly pens fans, throwing the word luck around like it's a bad thing. There's a saying: "It's better to be lucky than good", and it's true. But there's also another saying: "In order to be lucky, you have to be good".

These 2 teams are crazy skilled. I'ms sorry, but if your expecting tape to tape tic-tac passes and to the back of the net against the wings/pens then your going to be disappointed. It's gonna be all about luck, and that's what wins though games. Pretty plays aren't going to dictate this series, luck is. And to be lucky you have to good enough to create that luck, end of story.

About Crosby/Malkin...they are good. Very good. They were able to expose the defense, or lack thereof, against their first three opponents (look at the scores...high scoring games). But they are going against a much MUCH better defensive team. Not only that, but a team whos defense is more offensive (forwards that is) than half the league. If Crosby and Malkin are the star players that I think them to be, it's only a matter of time before they develop a 2-way game. Maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but when they do...the wings defense will have more than a hand full.

Anyhoo, that's my take.

If they're going to develop into great 2-way players, then they're playing in the wrong conference in my opinion.

[Theophany 110]

Oh this should be fun. Who is the best power forward in the game then?

You don't give Getzlaf enough credit, whenever he was on the ice, he made s*** happen. As the game wore on, Getz wore down... due to the extreme ice time. I hate Getz, but I would love to have him on this team (but it'll probably never happen).

Back to my point, Getlaf and Perry were much more of threat in every game of that 7 game series as Crosby and Malkin were in the past 7 we played them in the finals.

Bottom line, Crosby is good, but Zetterberg is better.

Eric Staal, Rick Nash, and Milan Lucic are easily on the same level as Getzlaf.

And you know why Getzlaf was more of a threat? Because we weren't in close-coverage on Getzlaf. We were more concerned in breaking up plays as they were forming, because Getzlaf isn't as dangerous alone as Crosby or Malkin are. Every team that's lost to the Pens hasn't been in close-coverage on Crosby and Malkin. If you give these guys any room to work with, they're going to walk all over you unless your goaltender is standing on his head to a ridiculous extent.

Edit: Oh, and Jarome Iginla too. Forgot him.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Theophany

[Dynheart 42]

If they're going to develop into great 2-way players, then they're playing in the wrong conference in my opinion.

Point taken.

[thedisappearer 291]

That wasn't the question -- but thanks for trying to steer the discussion in a totally irrelevant direction.

Sorry. I forgot you making excuses for losing was the only relevant thing. Got it.