Why the Wings will lose this series

[chrisdetroit 189]

First let me say that I've been a huge Wings fan since 1993 and was HIGHLY confident that we would win each time we've been in the Finals (even against the NJD, but that didn't turn out so well). However, after watching the first two games of this series and taking into account some other factors, I am extremely concerned that we will lose this series in 6 or 7 games despite being up 2-0. I'm usually not an ultra pessimistic person so I'm a bit concerned that my thinking may have some merit.

Here are my thoughts:

In the first two games, I felt that from an overall effort and quality of play perspective, the edge has to go to the Penguins. Detroit has been outshot, had way too many giveaways, and spent a significant amount of time chasing the puck rather than playing our puck possession style of game. The Wings are dumping it in more than usual as the neutral has been effectively clogged and Malkin and Crosby are getting some looks but we've had some luck with posts (and of course Ozzy has played well).

But as this series transitions to Pittsburgh, the major concern I have is matchups. With the Pens getting the last change, I believe this gives them a significant edge, more so than against most other teams. Zetterberg has been huge on Crosby, and whenever the wrong lines have been out against the Pens, you can tell that the danger level of Malkin and Crosby is elevated significantly. The absence of Datsuyk only exasperates this problem, and I believe that he is likely gone for the series.

So with this in mind, I truly believe the Pens will take the next two games bringing it back to Detroit tied 2-2 with all the momentum. Our guys will be more exhausted then theirs at this point given injuries and the fact that our top D-man and guys like Zetterberg are actually playing more minutes than their top guys (this will begin to affect us immensely as this series roles on). And if they can make it 2-2, they'll have the momentum, the energy, and they'll be able to smell the trophy at that point and I believe they'll have that extra bit of desperation to put them over the edge in a six or seven game series.

I don't know guys, I'm not your average mindfly pessimist. I was highly confident the Wings would win in past SCF, but I have no confidence this time around and I hope I am dead wrong about them.

Go wings....

Ok Mindfly II, this is crap.

1. Yea they outshot us by 2 shots in the first game in 6 in the 2nd. We had the lead going into the 3rd and after 6 minutes we had a 2 goal cushion in both games. At that point we didn't need more shots.

2. Yes we had to many giveaways. Why do you think that this will continue? As Babcock says, we were exhausted Sunday. One would assume that the giveaways were at least partly caused by this. There's no reason to assume that we won't play better tonight (unless you are Mindfly)

3. Your biggest concern is match-ups? Really? And you assume that our top guys are playing more than theirs? Did you know that they only dress 7 D-men? In game 1 Z played LESS than Malkin and about the same as Crosby. The danger level of Crosby? Well I don't know if anybody told you but even when he is not plying against Z, he as ZERO points the first 2 games.

4. You think the Wings would lose a game 7 on home ice? Come on. Not gonna happen.

5. What about goaltending? Did you forget that Fleury has a .904 save percentage and is playing poorly? How bout the Abby goal in game 2. How's Ozzie playing? LOL

6. They hit posts? Really? I think I remember us hitting a couple.

7. Our guys are more exhausted than theirs because of injuries? That would only be true if we were shortening our bench which we are not doing.

Bottom line, the Pens are NOT going to beat us 4 out of the next 5 games. The games have been pretty even except our goaltending has been far superior. Based on that how do you see them beating us 4 out of 5 times?

[rick zombo 3,739]

Coaching

Goaltending

Defense

Depth

The 4 main ingredients in Stanley Cup Soup.

Detroit will win this series.

[titanium2 867]

Someone probably mentioned this but the outshout argument isn't all that great. In both games during the 3rd period Detroit purposefully "sat back and trapped" according to Babs. You don't get that many shots on goal playing that way.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

2. Anaheim plays solid, shutdown defense, with 2-way forwards.

Don't leave out the Wings whose forwards even play goalie, making superior glove saves in the crease.

Talk about your 2-way threats!

Edited June 2, 2009 by BewareThePenguin

[jvxp 0]

Don't leave out the Wings whose forwards play great goalie too, making superior glove saves in the crease.

[WingsCaptain 0]

Three reasons why we will win the Cup again this year:

1. Lidstrom, Stuart, Ericsson, Rafalski, Lebda, Kronwall > Pittsburgh's D (i.e. best D lineup in the league)

2. Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Hossa, Holmstrom, Helm, Abdelkader, Leino, Hudler, Cleary, Samuelsson (or Draper), Maltby > Pittsburgh's O (i.e. depth)

3. Osgood > Fleury (i.e. our so-called "weak link")

Pittsburgh has matured and is better than last year, no doubt. But they still don't know that it takes experience, skill, and most importantly WILL to win the Cup.

Wings in 5.

~ Z

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

First off, the OP has a right to post this, since believe it or not this is a free internet forum

What a bizarre statement. It's wrong on so many levels.

-> First of all, who questioned his "right" to post his opinion? I don't see anyone saying he can't.

-> Are you saying criticizing his view is trampling on his "right?" So people have the right to have views that are not criticized? That's absurd.

-> And what does "free internet forum" mean? It's a privately run website, it's not government. He has NO right to post anything the staff don't want posted. And yet they didn't question either his posting or the criticisms of his opinion, you did.

So what "right" are you talking about exactly?

[CopenhagenWing 38]

Hey, this guy said some stuff that wasn't all rah-rah about the Wings!

Get out all those troll signs guys!

The nerve!

You're toeing the line.

[WingsCaptain 0]

Don't leave out the Wings whose forwards even play goalie, making superior glove saves in the crease.

Talk about your 2-way threats!

Z never covered the puck with his hand, or his body. Watch the replay sometime -- puck was laying in plain sight.

But let's call it even -- you got to keep Malkin for game 3 after he instigated, didn't have his fight strap snapped on, and started the fight with his stick. You can tell he's new to fighting. Oh, and Miro Satan was the third man in. Where was that call?

I hate the excuses I'm already seeing from Pens fans. Learn to lose gracefully. You're going to be doing it for awhile.

~ Z

[jvxp 0]

Z never covered the puck with his hand, or his body. Watch the replay sometime -- puck was laying in plain sight.

But let's call it even -- you got to keep Malkin for game 3 after he instigated, didn't have his fight strap snapped on, and started the fight with his stick. You can tell he's new to fighting. Oh, and Miro Satan was the third man in. Where was that call?

I hate the excuses I'm already seeing from Pens fans. Learn to lose gracefully. You're going to be doing it for awhile.

~ Z

[stactum 4]

Ok Mindfly II, this is crap.

1. Yea they outshot us by 2 shots in the first game in 6 in the 2nd. We had the lead going into the 3rd and after 6 minutes we had a 2 goal cushion in both games. At that point we didn't need more shots.

2. Yes we had to many giveaways. Why do you think that this will continue? As Babcock says, we were exhausted Sunday. One would assume that the giveaways were at least partly caused by this. There's no reason to assume that we won't play better tonight (unless you are Mindfly)

3. Your biggest concern is match-ups? Really? And you assume that our top guys are playing more than theirs? Did you know that they only dress 7 D-men? In game 1 Z played LESS than Malkin and about the same as Crosby. The danger level of Crosby? Well I don't know if anybody told you but even when he is not plying against Z, he as ZERO points the first 2 games.

4. You think the Wings would lose a game 7 on home ice? Come on. Not gonna happen.

5. What about goaltending? Did you forget that Fleury has a .904 save percentage and is playing poorly? How bout the Abby goal in game 2. How's Ozzie playing? LOL

6. They hit posts? Really? I think I remember us hitting a couple.

7. Our guys are more exhausted than theirs because of injuries? That would only be true if we were shortening our bench which we are not doing.

Bottom line, the Pens are NOT going to beat us 4 out of the next 5 games. The games have been pretty even except our goaltending has been far superior. Based on that how do you see them beating us 4 out of 5 times?

I totally agree with what you've said. And this whole "outshot" thing is plain silly just because we're playing with the lead and they are playing from behind. If that is the other way around and Wings are playing from behind Pit would be hammered with the amount of shots.

I remember last playoffs I really liked when Wings played from behind because it was a magnificent hockey at that point.

WINGS IN 5.

[Snazzy 0]

Don't leave out the Wings whose forwards even play goalie, making superior glove saves in the crease.

Talk about your 2-way threats!

Sour grapes?

[BewareThePenguin 1]

Z never covered the puck with his hand, or his body. Watch the replay sometime -- puck was laying in plain sight.

But let's call it even -- you got to keep Malkin for game 3 after he instigated, didn't have his fight strap snapped on, and started the fight with his stick. You can tell he's new to fighting. Oh, and Miro Satan was the third man in. Where was that call?

I hate the excuses I'm already seeing from Pens fans. Learn to lose gracefully. You're going to be doing it for awhile.

~ Z

I've already stated Malkin's guilt.

Watch the replay from Game 2, and tell me Zetterberg didn't swipe at the puck with his hand after Crosby hit the post.

Zetterberg's gotten away with borderline puck infractions both games.

Edited June 2, 2009 by BewareThePenguin

[BewareThePenguin 1]

You're toeing the line.

Yes, the top poster stated an opinion using rational facts and reasoned thoughts to state his case.

Oh how DARE he!

C'mon, break out the troll signs...

[RedFX 48]

First let me say that I've been a huge Wings fan since 1993 and was HIGHLY confident that we would win each time we've been in the Finals (even against the NJD, but that didn't turn out so well). However, after watching the first two games of this series and taking into account some other factors, I am extremely concerned that we will lose this series in 6 or 7 games despite being up 2-0. I'm usually not an ultra pessimistic person so I'm a bit concerned that my thinking may have some merit.

Here are my thoughts:

In the first two games, I felt that from an overall effort and quality of play perspective, the edge has to go to the Penguins. Detroit has been outshot, had way too many giveaways, and spent a significant amount of time chasing the puck rather than playing our puck possession style of game. The Wings are dumping it in more than usual as the neutral has been effectively clogged and Malkin and Crosby are getting some looks but we've had some luck with posts (and of course Ozzy has played well).

But as this series transitions to Pittsburgh, the major concern I have is matchups. With the Pens getting the last change, I believe this gives them a significant edge, more so than against most other teams. Zetterberg has been huge on Crosby, and whenever the wrong lines have been out against the Pens, you can tell that the danger level of Malkin and Crosby is elevated significantly. The absence of Datsuyk only exasperates this problem, and I believe that he is likely gone for the series.

So with this in mind, I truly believe the Pens will take the next two games bringing it back to Detroit tied 2-2 with all the momentum. Our guys will be more exhausted then theirs at this point given injuries and the fact that our top D-man and guys like Zetterberg are actually playing more minutes than their top guys (this will begin to affect us immensely as this series roles on). And if they can make it 2-2, they'll have the momentum, the energy, and they'll be able to smell the trophy at that point and I believe they'll have that extra bit of desperation to put them over the edge in a six or seven game series.

I don't know guys, I'm not your average mindfly pessimist. I was highly confident the Wings would win in past SCF, but I have no confidence this time around and I hope I am dead wrong about them.

Go wings....

[Mike 0]

I've already stated Malkin's guilt.

Watch the replay from Game 2, and tell me Zetterberg didn't swipe at the puck with his hand after Crosby hit the post.

Zetterberg's gotten away with borderline puck infractions both games.

You have to cover the puck for it to be an infraction.

[WingsCaptain 0]

I've already stated Malkin's guilt.

Watch the replay from Game 2, and tell me Zetterberg didn't swipe at the puck with his hand after Crosby hit the post.

Zetterberg's gotten away with borderline puck infractions both games.

Okay:

"Zetterberg didn't swipe at the puck with his hand after Crosby hit the post."

Crosby's first shot hit the left post, went across the crease, and came out the right side. Crosby gathered the puck (again) and fired into a prone Zetterberg who did not cover the puck with his hand. But you are allowed to bat the puck with your hand. We all know the rule by now (if we didn't previously) --

"67.4 Penalty Shot - If a player, except a goalkeeper, while play is in progress, falls on the puck, holds the puck, picks up the puck, or gathers the puck into his body or hands from the ice in the goal crease area, the play shall be stopped immediately and a penalty shot shall be awarded to the non-offending team."

Referee Devorski was there at ice level, and according to the director of officiating Stephen Walkom, he's assuming that the interpretation was that Zetterberg was simply trying to bat the puck off of Chris Osgood's back. One thing to remember though is that the crease extends upwards, so if Zetterberg did cover the puck with his glove, then a penalty shot should have been called. It was an interpretation call, and Devorski thought that Zetterberg was trying to bat the puck, not cover it.

Zetterberg isn't a rookie. He knows you can't cover the puck in the crease.

Next!

Edited June 2, 2009 by WingsCaptain

[Snazzy 0]

Yes, the top poster stated an opinion using rational facts and reasoned thoughts to state his case.

Oh how DARE he!

C'mon, break out the troll signs...

Before the series started, top posters were discussing facts and backed it with stats. Pens fans disregarded the facts and stats and continued on with the "Crosby and Malkin are the bestestest playerz in the whole-wide-worldzzzz, just look at their STATS!"

When respectful members brought up your teams +/- stats, Pens fans were quick to say "STATS MEANS NOTHGING!" as they quickly changed the subject away from the FACTS.

Fact. Wings will win this series. Why? Heart, will and determination... and, most importantly, team defense-and-depth.

The quick schedule to start the series (back-to-back games) and our injuries favored the Penguins significantly. They failed to take advantage.

Now Wings only need to win 2 of 5 games; Pens need to win 4 of 5 games. As the series lingers on, it favors the Wings in terms of health. Can Pens defy probability and upset Detroit? Yes. Is it likely? No.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

What a bizarre statement. It's wrong on so many levels.

-> First of all, who questioned his "right" to post his opinion? I don't see anyone saying he can't.

-> Are you saying criticizing his view is trampling on his "right?" So people have the right to have views that are not criticized? That's absurd.

-> And what does "free internet forum" mean? It's a privately run website, it's not government. He has NO right to post anything the staff don't want posted. And yet they didn't question either his posting or the criticisms of his opinion, you did.

So what "right" are you talking about exactly?

I'm saying that the guy was just posting his opinion on what he thinks will happen in the series. He wasn't trying to start s***, and he's not someone who joined yesterday as a Pens fan, yet people are acting like he was.

You guys are overreacting too much to this thread, much like you did to my post.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

I'm saying that the guy was just posting his opinion on what he thinks will happen in the series. He wasn't trying to start s***, and he's not someone who joined yesterday as a Pens fan, yet people are acting like he was.

You guys are overreacting too much to this thread, much like you did to my post.

OK, don't answer the question. You have that right.

But let me ask you a question. If you go onto the Wings fan site when we're up 2-0 in the Stanley Cup Finals, post that you're a long time fan and that we're going to lose, exactly what do you THINK is going to happen? Do you walk through Harlem alone at night holding a wad of bills in your hand because it's your "right" to do so?

[87to71 0]

Z never covered the puck with his hand, or his body. Watch the replay sometime -- puck was laying in plain sight.

But let's call it even -- you got to keep Malkin for game 3 after he instigated, didn't have his fight strap snapped on, and started the fight with his stick. You can tell he's new to fighting. Oh, and Miro Satan was the third man in. Where was that call?

I hate the excuses I'm already seeing from Pens fans. Learn to lose gracefully. You're going to be doing it for awhile.

~ Z

Hey the Wings got a 5 on 3 power play for the last 20 seconds as a result of that Malkin brawl with Zetterberg so what more did you want lol...I havent made any excuses here these first two games. The Pens clearly had the advantage playing the back to back games especially with the Wings being short Datsyuk and the bottom line is they failed to take advantage of it. Both games 1 and 2 turned late in the 2nd period as a result of the Wings being able to get that 2nd goal first and take that momentum into the 3rd period and get the goal from Abdelkader in both games. Aside from all that both teams have played I feel dead even from the 1st period to late in the 2nd period in both games with both the Pens and Wings taking over the game in 10-15 minutes spurts.

The Pens have had some bad luck hitting a lot of posts especially in game 2, but at the same time Osgood as still stepped up and made a lot of key saves when he has needed too. With that being said, I still think this series is still far from being decided yet. The Pens just need to win this game tonight and the series lead is cut in half once again and then things will get very interesting for Game 4 on Thursday...

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

The Pens have had some bad luck hitting a lot of posts especially in game 2, but at the same time Osgood as still stepped up and made a lot of key saves when he has needed too

The ones off the post weren't exactly shots that were going into empty nets either. They were tight angles and Ozzie was really close to getting them. If they'd been more then slightly inside the post then Ozzie would have gotten it anyway. So yes, we caught a break, but only small ones. Anyway, the Penguins can say we won on luck all they want. I'll take the Cup for that trade.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

OK, don't answer the question. You have that right.

But let me ask you a question. If you go onto the Wings fan site when we're up 2-0 in the Stanley Cup Finals, post that you're a long time fan and that we're going to lose, exactly what do you THINK is going to happen? Do you walk through Harlem alone at night holding a wad of bills in your hand because it's your "right" to do so?

His didn't just say we're going to lose and that's it.

The guy did actually write out a list of reasons for why he thought the team was in trouble. I'm not surprised about the responses, just disturbed by how long a thread like this has gone on.

[87to71 0]

The ones off the post weren't exactly shots that were going into empty nets either. They were tight angles and Ozzie was really close to getting them. If they'd been more then slightly inside the post then Ozzie would have gotten it anyway. So yes, we caught a break, but only small ones. Anyway, the Penguins can say we won on luck all they want. I'll take the Cup for that trade.

You can say that but they are also shots that 9 times out of 10 guys like Crosby and Guerin are going to bury and get by the goalie...Never said the Wings were winning on luck either. I gave Osgood credit he has outplayed Fleury and has been great when he has needed to make a key save. The Wings also winning without Datsyuk shows how much depth they do have and how they are capable of not missing a beat if those guys are out of the lineup. But like I said I still think this is going to be a long series. The Penguins despite these first two losses and what you might think still want this bad and it will be very tough for the Red Wings to come into Pittsburgh and steal one of the next 2 games. These two games at Mellon Arena of where I feel that missing Datsyuk out of the lineup can really work in the Pens favor...

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

wow now he's talking s*** to one of our mods.....and the pens fans call us d-bags. you sir are the definition of a d-bag.

and im not talking to you 87to71

Edited June 2, 2009 by hillbillywingsfan