'Lack of Urgency' vs 'Couldn't Give Anymore'

[titanium2 867]

"I'm not sure what my emotions are," general manager Ken Holland said Saturday afternoon. "I'm disappointed we didn't win, but our guys left it all on the line. They couldn't give any more. They pulled together, they played hurt, they picked each other up. Anaheim was a tough series, then we played a young Chicago team, then we had two days off before the finals. We played without Nicklas Lidstrom. We played without Brian Rafalski. We played without Pavel Datsyuk. Our guys gave every ounce of what they could."

http://www.freep.com/article/20090614/SPOR.../906140536/1048

First of all, let's assume he's not just saying that for political purposes.

It's just frustrating to watch the Wings sometimes. If you were to read through the GDT threads you would find many posters like to angrily question the Wings' effort and desire. Left it all on the line? Couldn't give anymore? That's not how some of us saw it.

They have their games in which from our perspective they "don't show up until the third." And it's not just fans. Journalists have said it too. I know for sure that Ansar Khan wrote a lot about their "lack of urgency" during the finals. Even Babs has said it in his press conferences at times in the regular season and a few times during the playoffs. And it's not just a 'problem' of this year. Wings fans have made the same complaints year after year.

It seems to me that from the Wings perspective, it's just a matter of style. The Wings like to play with patience, confidence and poise. They treat every game like a marathon process in which they gradually build their level of play so they can peak during the third. They don't often come out swinging hard like Mike Tyson looking for the knockout.

On the other hand, from our perspective, the fans, we perceive that 'style' as a "lack of urgency," "failure to show up on time," "not trying hard enough" etc.

Seemingly huge discrepancy. Why?

They're the one who are in direct control of their level of play. What is it that they know that we don't?

Is it simply, "They just have to play harder"?

Are we just used to behavior often strongly correlated with a "North American style"? Used to it so much that we don't know how to look for certain nuances in the Wings style? I don't have any examples. I'm just asking the questions.

I'm betting that this is just one of those questions in which the answer is both. Some days they didn't appear to play hard enough because of a lack of emotional engagement. Some days they probably just couldn't give anymore and were too banged up. In the end, I trust that everything the Wings do is about winning no matter how it looks from a fan's perspective.

I think after we all saw that list of injuries we were left with a sense of wonder as to how they got as far as they did.

[Snazzy 0]

I think after we all saw that list of injuries we were left with a sense of wonder as to how they got as far as they did.

^ This pretty much sums it up. No team in the world could pull off what the Wings did. They achieved more on one leg than any other team could in a lifetime.... And that's why I am calling them the best team in the NHL.

[under_par_00 45]

I think after we all saw that list of injuries we were left with a sense of wonder as to how they got as far as they did.

Where is this list??

[HudlerFanatic 4]

^ This pretty much sums it up. No team in the world could pull off what the Wings did. They achieved more on one leg than any other team could in a lifetime.... And that's why I am calling them the best team in the NHL.

Agree x1000 + infinity x 2!

[Nev 1,085]

Where is this list??

Its been published in dribs and drabs in various articles since the playoffs.

Datsyuk - damaged foot AND a charley horse.

Cleary - double groin tear

Rafalski - Separated shoulder AND herniated disk in back

Ericsson - emergency appendectomy, back next game.

Lidstrom - emergency surgery to save his testicles back next game

Draper - pulled groin

Thats 4 of our "big 5" who would have been out if it was regular season - and they still kept Crosby to only 3 points.

[titanium2 867]

Its been published in dribs and drabs in various articles since the playoffs.

Datsyuk - damaged foot AND a charley horse.

Cleary - double groin tear

Rafalski - Separated shoulder AND herniated disk in back

Ericsson - emergency appendectomy, back next game.

Lidstrom - emergency surgery to save his testicles back next game

Draper - pulled groin

Thats 4 of our "big 5" who would have been out if it was regular season - and they still kept Crosby to only 3 points.

Those in my opinion are serious enough that you can't categorize them into the normal wear and tear of the playoffs that everybody deals with.

What about Holmstrom? Knee, hip, pretty much everything. You wonder that if he had a more proper diet that he wouldn't be injured so often. I read this article where he said he often has chocolate milk and a club sandwich before he goes to bed the night before a game. Larionov would tell him to eat a fruit plate instead but obviously Homer went with the more yummy choice. Though that's not how it works for everybody, only some.

[zenway9 1]

I am waiting for a pit fan to come on this thread and start trashing it. ANY fan with a knowledge of the game would agree, ONLY the Wings could have done what they did this playoff season. You take pits 2 top players from their team, and they do not make it.

Thanks for the effort guys, and next year when you are healthy, reclaim the Cup to its rightful owners.

[titanium2 867]

I am waiting for a pit fan to come on this thread and start trashing it. ANY fan with a knowledge of the game would agree, ONLY the Wings could have done what they did this playoff season. You take pits 2 top players from their team, and they do not make it.

Thanks for the effort guys, and next year when you are healthy, reclaim the Cup to its rightful owners.

TBH, the more I think about it, the more I realize how lucky Pittsburgh got. Don't get me wrong, the Pens wanted it more because they lost last year and they should celebrate and cherish their cup. It's just that when looking back I think the Wings skill and talent injured or not was equivalent to the Pens desire to win. That series was ridiculously close. The Pens got the edge in terms of luck of health and injuries to the other team.

[titanium2 867]

I am waiting for a pit fan to come on this thread and start trashing it. ANY fan with a knowledge of the game would agree, ONLY the Wings could have done what they did this playoff season. You take pits 2 top players from their team, and they do not make it.

Thanks for the effort guys, and next year when you are healthy, reclaim the Cup to its rightful owners.

Besides, this thread isn't meant to be one that pulls the injuries excuse card. It's more about our tendency to bash the Wings desire when we really don't know all that's going on.

[thedisappearer 291]

I applaud the Wing's resilence in the face of injuries, but there were still clearly times where they did not self-motivate. They got further than any other team would have in our position, but we still had two games to win the Cup- one at home- and failed.

[zenway9 1]

I applaud the Wing's resilence in the face of injuries, but there were still clearly times where they did not self-motivate. They got further than any other team would have in our position, but we still had two games to win the Cup- one at home- and failed.

Can't argue with that.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I don't want to make excuses for this team, because many times throughout the season and playoffs they played with no urgency. All of a sudden, in the 3rd periods these injured players started trying hard.

Also, there's several players not on that injury list who didn't seem to play with much urgency and determination. Where were Hossa, Hudler, Kronwall? They played like crap for more than half of the playoffs and weren't injured from what I remember.

I'm still pissed about what happened, especially knowing that we could start next season on a quest to 3-peat.

Yeah, we had a good run, but when you lose game 7 of the Finals at home, and you're the first team in like 30 years in pro sports to do so, it's hard to be anything but pissed.

Didn't help to lose to a team we hate either.

[Casey 145]

Those in my opinion are serious enough that you can't categorize them into the normal wear and tear of the playoffs that everybody deals with.

What about Holmstrom? Knee, hip, pretty much everything. You wonder that if he had a more proper diet that he wouldn't be injured so often. I read this article where he said he often has chocolate milk and a club sandwich before he goes to bed the night before a game. Larionov would tell him to eat a fruit plate instead but obviously Homer went with the more yummy choice. Though that's not how it works for everybody, only some.

Yeah, and Babe Ruth would down 3 hot dogs with the works and wash it down with beer before every game. It's what works for the player. Cal Ripken Jr. was pretty much vegetarian on game days, while some guys won't play without a steak.

Holmstrom's injuries stem more from his style of play. He gets hit with so many pucks (and players) that you have to expect him to get hurt more often.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

There was some lack of urgency I think the last two games, but that can be attributed to trying to play somewhat of a cautious game, not pressing too hard or not making easy mistakes. However, something I don't think you see much of here, is actually giving the other team enough/fair credit. People are so busy finding 500 different reasons why the Wings blew it or stunk it up that it doesn't seem like that there is any consideration that Pittsburgh actually played good defense/goaltending as well to neutralize the Wings attack. The Penguins also had something to do with the Wings not being able to seal the deal the past 2 games, not just injuries or lack of urgency or whatever. There might have been a lack of urgency, but if somebody insinuates from this that they don't care or whatever else, that's hogwash.

[Electrophile 3,554]

lack of urgency = don't care enough/phoning it in

If anyone here is trying to insinuate the Red Wings didn't give a s*** about the games or what was on the line or their fans or fill in the group here, you are full on macadamia.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I don't want to make excuses for this team, because many times throughout the season and playoffs they played with no urgency. All of a sudden, in the 3rd periods these injured players started trying hard teams are falling back into prevent defenses and hanging on for dear life.

Fixed, because there's not a sport where this doesn't happen.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Ten days after the fact, it continues to embarrass me that there are Wings "fans" questioning their effort. NICKLAS LIDSTROM'S ******* BALLS WERE SLICED OPEN.

[titanium2 867]

Fixed, because there's not a sport where this doesn't happen.

Ten days after the fact, it continues to embarrass me that there are Wings "fans" questioning their effort. NICKLAS LIDSTROM'S ******* BALLS WERE SLICED OPEN.

I've tried to form my own thoughts and opinions and yet at the end of the day I'm going with Kenny's statement. I just don't see how the Wings didn't give everything they could; even throughout those moments in which from our perspective they "didn't play with any urgency."

Is it really as simple as if the Wings are getting beat to loose pucks and losing races all over the ice that they didn't play with any urgency? I don't think so.

Oh, and in response to balls sliced open comment, I'm thinking of adding Patrick Sharp to the elite s*** list of hated players in with Lemieux, Pronger and Perry at the top. What a low blow. How do you beat the red wings? Well, you spear them in the balls.

Edited June 22, 2009 by titanium2

[thedisappearer 291]

Ten days after the fact, it continues to embarrass me that there are Wings "fans" questioning their effort. NICKLAS LIDSTROM'S ******* BALLS WERE SLICED OPEN.

Well, I questioned the team's effort, but I never questioned Nicky. So, FAIL.

[Fingercots 6]

I was just wondering, did Hossa have any injuries?

Several people speculated he was injured (says a lot about his play) but I have yet to read anything about injuries.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Well, I questioned the team's effort, but I never questioned Nicky. So, FAIL.

You questioned "the team"; Nick Lidstrom is on "the team". Ergo, you questioned Lidstrom. Besides, he's the captain. The team is a reflection of him. You can't question the team without questioning him.

And he wasn't the only one playing hurt. Are you going to go down the list and do this a la carte? "Well, Datsyuk and Lidstrom were playing hurt, but I definitely think Cleary looked healthy and lazy." Who do you think are to judge like that?

[thedisappearer 291]

You questioned "the team"; Nick Lidstrom is on "the team". Ergo, you questioned Lidstrom. Besides, he's the captain. The team is a reflection of him. You can't question the team without questioning him.

And he wasn't the only one playing hurt. Are you going to go down the list and do this a la carte? "Well, Datsyuk and Lidstrom were playing hurt, but I definitely think Cleary looked healthy and lazy." Who do you think are to judge like that?

Not really though. Lang was lazy and sucked when Yzerman was captain. Was that Yzerman's fault?

And I'm a fan who not only spends lots of money to watch the product, but I invest a lot of personal time and energy following the team. I'm allowed to pass a casual judgement. It's not like I am starting a civil trial- I made a post on an internet board.

[Travis 576]

I've thought a lot about this point, too. I saw Osgood in Jim Rome is Burning and even he admitted that after winning the Cup last year it was hard to, 'get up for a Tuesday night game'. When we lose time and time again to the Blue Jackets or the Coyotes you have to wonder whether or not some guys are taking a night off.

That said, I like the point of a game (and a season) being a marathon. Detroit plays old and smart and if we need to take a night off to preserve, then so be it. I think a lot of people consider the Wings to lack character or drive because they just don't get rattled. Always calm, always collected - it seems that people take that as not caring.

Obviously, there are a lot of questions after they blew Games 6 and 7. I'd like to imagine that Ken is right, though.

[drwscc 212]

I was just wondering, did Hossa have any injuries?

Several people speculated he was injured (says a lot about his play) but I have yet to read anything about injuries.

Hossa himself said he wasn't injured, beyond the usual cuts and bruises.

[kook_10 1,705]

Hossa himself said he wasn't injured, beyond the usual cuts and bruises.

It would be a pretty bad idea for him to complain of a latent injury while trying to negotiate a long term deal.