If You Think Hudler's NOT worth $3 Million...

[HudlerFanatic 4]

ROTF-LMFAO...........some of you that quoted on the thread I started about reasoning for letting Hudler go said that he could easily get 2.5-3 mil somewhere else playing on at least the 2nd line......and now you say he's not worth that much and will never play on a 1-2 line.

Tell me, if Huds is not good enough to play with the top key players.....why do most of his goals have Z for the assist.....he might have been playing on the 4th line in the playoffs, but was making plays during shift changes where he happened to be on the ice w/ the 1/2 lines........

We all know here that I want Huds to stay......this is all I will say is this thread as I read every single reply to thread that I started and I am more understanding to the situation....

But to say that Huds isn't worth $3...come on, the stats are there.......

[jeff48109 474]

he is worth 3 million on the market, but i dont think the wings should offer him 3 million.

[Guest Crymson]

Jiri Hudler - 255GP 52G 75A 127Pts 33+/- 90PIM's

Val Filppula - 235GP 41G 53A 94Pts 34+/- 92PIM's

They only way Hudler stays is if he takes a huge discount over what he is worth. His agent will definately bring up Filppula's contract as his worth. If he want's $3 million, let him test the market. He is definately worth $3 million, but not here, I'll take the 1st & 3rd picks in exchange...

Filppula's stock has continued to rise while Hudler's has stayed, by and large, the same. Hudler is an inconsistent scoring forward. He cannot play any form of physical game, nor is he a capable defensive forward in any sense of the term. He does not skate well, he is not especially good along the boards, and he often seems to be putting forth less than his maximum effort.

Filppula has untapped offensive potential; he can play a physical game; he is developing into a skilled two-way forward; he plays on the penalty kill; and he's a great skater and a fairly good puckhandler. Further, he has been constantly improving over the last several seasons. Hudler, in contrast, seems to have plateaued. This makes sense, given his lack of defensive acumen and given his physical limits in the offensive zone.

Stats don't tell the whole story. Too, being a one-dimensional player drastically reduces a player's salary range.

Then again, I don't think Flip is worth 3 mill a year either.

Flip's contract is a risk. If he stays at his present skill level, then he is likely being overpaid by a bit; if, however, he continues to improve at the rate he is currently improving, $3m will be a steal for the last 3-4 years of his contract.

Meh, let if we cannot sign and trae Hudler, let him go...

...anyway, instead of offering Hudler $1 million to stay, any interest in coaxing Jagr back from the KHL? He did have 51 points in 55 games and 9 points in 9 playoff games. That'd be almost 77 points here in 82 games...

Holland has not done S&Ts in a very long time, if ever. I don't remember any. The organization thrives on loyalty between its players and the management. In order for this to exist, the management must refrain from trading players around like game pieces.

Jagr? No thanks. He's a locker room cancer, he's vain beyond belief, and he's all about the money.

Also, I feel obligated to point out a flaw in your reasoning: namely, the KHL does not even nearly compare to the NHL in terms of the talent on the ice there. As such, anybody's point totals in the KHL would not necessarily translate over to the NHL.

Edited June 23, 2009 by Crymson

[Probie 7]

Filppula's stock has continued to rise while Hudler's has stayed, by and large, the same. Hudler is an inconsistent scoring forward. He cannot play any form of physical game, nor is he a capable defensive forward in any sense of the term. He does not skate well, he is not especially good along the boards, and he often seems to be putting forth less than his maximum effort.

Filppula has untapped offensive potential; he can play a physical game; he is developing into a skilled two-way forward; he plays on the penalty kill; and he's a great skater and a fairly good puckhandler. Further, he has been constantly improving over the last several seasons. Hudler, in contrast, seems to have plateaued. This makes sense, given his lack of defensive acumen and given his physical limits in the offensive zone.

Stats don't tell the whole story. Too, being a one-dimensional player drastically reduces a player's salary range.

Flip's contract is a risk. If he stays at his present skill level, then he is likely being overpaid by a bit; if, however, he continues to improve at the rate he is currently improving, $3m will be a steal for the last 3-4 years of his contract.

Holland has not done S&Ts in a very long time, if ever. I don't remember any. The organization thrives on loyalty between its players and the management. In order for this to exist, the management must refrain from trading players around like game pieces.

Jagr? No thanks. He's a locker room cancer, he's vain beyond belief, and he's all about the money.

Also, I feel obligated to point out a flaw in your reasoning: namely, the KHL does not even nearly compare to the NHL in terms of the talent on the ice there. As such, anybody's point totals in the KHL would not necessarily translate over to the NHL.

Good post with some excellent points. They do have enough faith in Hudler Offensively to put him on the pp over flip at this point. Other then that, I do agree with your post. If this draft wasnt so deep and the cap and economy werent in question, I could see a team offering hudler a 3 million "ish" contract.

Edited June 23, 2009 by Probie

[58Miles2Joe 12]

Sammy always gets playing time no matter how out of sync he is with the rest of the team, but if Huds makes the one mistake he rides pine.

If it comes down to Sammy or Huds, Babs will lobby for Sammy. That may not be the only factor, but it'll enter into it. If I were Huds, I'd probably be hoping to play for a different coach right now.

I think Hudler caught Lang-itis when he used to live with him, and Babcock still thinks of him as loafing around like Lang did (even when he doesn't).

[13Wings40 0]

Does anybody realize there is a scenario that Hudler could resign anywhere for $3 Million/year and the Wings don't get this 1 & 3 that everybody is counting on.

1) Hudler is a RFA Arbitration Eligible.

2) He declares he wants to go to Arbitration and the Wings don't give him a contract that he and his agent like.

3) Go to Arbitration and the Arbitrator awards him something the Wings won't match and they walk away.

4) Hudler can now declare himself a UFA.

5) Signs anywhere for any salary. (Wings get 0 Picks)

[Reds4Life 51]

Jagr? No thanks. He's a locker room cancer, he's vain beyond belief, and he's all about the money.

How do you know that? Have you ever played with him? Do you know him personally?

NO.

You are just pathetic loser and an idiot.

Edited June 23, 2009 by Reds4Life

[uk_redwing 495]

Tell me, if Huds is not good enough to play with the top key players.....why do most of his goals have Z for the assist..

Its called the best powerplay in the league.

Neither of them are worth 3mil. But Filpulla is a far better 2 way player than Hudler and isnt dogged off the puck as easily.

[therock48880 14]

Sammy always gets playing time no matter how out of sync he is with the rest of the team, but if Huds makes the one mistake he rides pine.

If it comes down to Sammy or Huds, Babs will lobby for Sammy. That may not be the only factor, but it'll enter into it. If I were Huds, I'd probably be hoping to play for a different coach right now.

I think Hudler caught Lang-itis when he used to live with him, and Babcock still thinks of him as loafing around like Lang did (even when he doesn't).

It's because Babcock likes players that play both ways. Sammy is very responsible defensively and does things that Hudler has never even tried, like backcheck. That being said, I think Sammy's gone and Hudler may stay at a low price. The fact that Hudler is a RFA makes the chances of him leaving more remote, imo. Ideally, someone would pull a Lowe and sign him to a huge offer.

[eva unit zero 271]

Filppula's stock has continued to rise while Hudler's has stayed, by and large, the same. Hudler is an inconsistent scoring forward. He cannot play any form of physical game, nor is he a capable defensive forward in any sense of the term. He does not skate well, he is not especially good along the boards, and he often seems to be putting forth less than his maximum effort.

Filppula has untapped offensive potential; he can play a physical game; he is developing into a skilled two-way forward; he plays on the penalty kill; and he's a great skater and a fairly good puckhandler. Further, he has been constantly improving over the last several seasons. Hudler, in contrast, seems to have plateaued. This makes sense, given his lack of defensive acumen and given his physical limits in the offensive zone.

Stats don't tell the whole story. Too, being a one-dimensional player drastically reduces a player's salary range.

Filppula's stock has risen quicker than Hudler's stock has, this is true. But that's like saying that "Joe's Electronic's" which started as a single-store unit in 1999 and is now a national chain has risen faster than Best Buy in the same time frame. Hudler's stock started out MUCH higher. Based on his skill level, he was projected to go top ten, perhaps even top-five in his draft. His SIZE is what caused him to fall so far. He is a gritty forechecker and despite his past defensive flaws, is now an above average defensive forward. Also, with regard to his skating, he may have had skating problems in the past but has developed into a skilled skater with better than average speed. Your complaints about Hudler seem to be based more on stereotype and scouting reports from five or more years ago than on what he actually puts on the ice.

I am not calling for Hudler to get a $3m contract. Rather, I was upset what Filppula did. But honestly, Filppula is the closest player to compare Hudler to of any player on the Wings, and the comparison is pretty even. Hudler is better offensively, Filppula is better defensively. They are the same age. Overall, they are about even, each with their advantages. Hudler will probably cost less to re-sign than Filppula costs. I would prefer to keep both, but as far as the cap is concerned, the Wings have plenty of skilled defensive forwards, but few offensive forwards with the talent and potential of Hudler.

The real question is, will we be able to keep both, and how?

[egroen 384]

Filppula is not a goal scorer and he is not a playmaker -- most of his assists in the playoffs were either secondary assists, or assists where he simply gave Hossa or Franzen the puck and let them do their thing. We have pretty much seen his offensive potential -- and it is a little better than a prime Draper. He has the ability to generate chances based on his speed, is at least capable of potting in rebounds if he is in the right position and can make decent passes -- but he does not create too many opportunities on his own. He is far more valuable as a defensive forward and PKer that is strong on the puck and can carry it.

[p_diddy_datsyuk_13 2]

Ok, sure, Hudler gets PP time, and Filppula gets PK time. However Filppula gets far more even strength time than Hudler, often playing on the second line while Hudler for much of the season was stuck on the third and fourth lines. Filppula gets to play more, with better players and for the whole season was far inferior to Hudler in terms of offensive production, while playing in about three more minutes a game.

In the playoffs, Filppula played in nearly four more minutes a game than Hudler, and Hudler's ice time was cut substantially as the playoffs progressed and the team relied more on the top two lines, not in response to his production, as he found himself on lines with youngsters and defensively minded players.

Right now Hudler is the superior player and is not afraid to roll up his sleeves and get his hands dirty unlike Filppula. Hudler's size is a stumbling point, but he has managed to deal with that thus far. It is ashame to continue to see him overshadowed by a player who really needs to work harder to even begin to scrape the surface of his potential.

Filppula is a player with a lot of fundamental flaws, as he often struggles with that first step out of the zone or with handling the puck, regardless of whether or not he is in traffic. I will admit, that his puck-handling did improve immensely as the season progressed, but it is still noticeable once or twice in every game.

The team planned on Filppula breaking out this year and being an impact player, which obviously didn't happen. That warranted the $3 Million per year contract.

Based on what we have seen from Hudler, more production in fewer minutes per game, he could easily get a bigger deal than that. He is just beginning to reach his potential, and with more ice time, he could easily score 70 points a year before its said and done.

Hudler will get at least $2 million, using Filppulas deal with Detroit as a bargaining chip, but look for a team like Edmonton, who is always hungry to steal talent away from cap-strapped teams, ala Penner or Vanek, to offer up $3-$4 million, as they are looking for young, talented players to complement Hemsky and O'Sullivan, in addition to the winger they will likely land.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Neither are worth 3 million. I keep hearing Hudler cant play a physical game, but Filppula does? Hudler tries to, he's just to small and weak to have a physical impact, Filppula turns off more checks then I've ever seen. He plays solid defence, but his offensive game isnt that great, he isnt very creative whereas Hudler is. If Hossa's resigned, and we can get Hudler for a cheaper price then Fil, I'd have no problem if Fil was dealt.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

Filppula gets paid 3 mil because he actually shows up in the playoffs.

[gcom007 1,465]

Filppula gets paid 3 mil because he actually shows up in the playoffs.

Like in 2008 when we won the Cup? Oh wait, that was Hudler.

It blows my mind that in the same post people are praising Flip and saying Hudler's inconsistent. Those posters would do well to look up game to game stats and see how incredibly streaky Flip has "consistently" been in his 3 years here.

And Hudler's worth $3 million on almost any other team, but not Detroit. When we've got a guy like Franzen with cap hits less than $4 million and Hossa potentially set to take something comparable, it's shameful to suggest streaky, unproven guys like Hudler and Flip are worth $3 million on this team. Hell, depending on how next year goes, both players might not be worth $3 million on other teams. If Hudler can find a way to become more consistent, he has a better upside than Flip, but that's a big "if."

But ultimately, when this season ended, I became content with the idea of losing Huds and trading Flip. It might be a year of regrouping where we don't do as much as we'd like, but longrun, this team needs a bit of fundamental tinkering. Nothing incredibly drastic, but there are some cap issues to get through and some style issues to consider. Changes are absolutely coming. It will be interesting to see what those changes will be come September.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Jiri Hudler - 255GP 52G 75A 127Pts 33+/- 90PIM's

Val Filppula - 235GP 41G 53A 94Pts 34+/- 92PIM's

They only way Hudler stays is if he takes a huge discount over what he is worth. His agent will definately bring up Filppula's contract as his worth. If he want's $3 million, let him test the market. He is definately worth $3 million, but not here, I'll take the 1st & 3rd picks in exchange...

Those stats don't tell it all because of PP time for Huds and PK time for Flip. Additionally, Flip has gotten the hard job of being a shutdown center and playing that defensive role which has an impact on his offense.

doesn't matter, he makes it, and the market dictates that Hudler, having similar numbers, that he is worth that as well, AT LEAST, on the market. Unless Hudler tells Holland he'll stay for his current salary or less, the $3 million Filppula makes will be a starting point for his agent.

Not exactly, not if Flip's contract is considered overpaid now. Look at Jeff Finger's contract. The team overpaid and most know it so the fact that a specific player makes a certain amount doesn't necessarily dictate that that is the market price. Additionally, you have to look at the current economic climate as well. When Flip signed his contract the economy was rosy, the cap had been going up dramatically each year since its implementation and there was no signs that the trend would not continue. Now however, it looks like the cap will stay roughly flat and likely go down next year. That has the natural effect of suppressing market prices. The fact of the matter is Flip came up for contract renewal at a great time and Huds is up for one at a lousy time. The fact that Huds may be as good as Val doesn't change the fact that other circumstances have transpired that suppress the amount that teams are willing to spend.

[Motown4013 350]

Filppula is not a goal scorer and he is not a playmaker -- most of his assists in the playoffs were either secondary assists, or assists where he simply gave Hossa or Franzen the puck and let them do their thing. We have pretty much seen his offensive potential -- and it is a little better than a prime Draper. He has the ability to generate chances based on his speed, is at least capable of potting in rebounds if he is in the right position and can make decent passes -- but he does not create too many opportunities on his own. He is far more valuable as a defensive forward and PKer that is strong on the puck and can carry it.

You are kidding right? WOW...did we watch the same playoffs? Flip consistantly was in the Top 3 forwards in the SCP for the Wings. Do you not recall the game willing back pass to Sammy? Not a playmaker huh??. He IS a playmaker and a good one at that. We have not ever come close to seeing his potential. He can be a 60pt guy and he never gets any powerplay time. He SHOULD be on the second powerplay and I think he will next year. We will see this time next year when he gets on the PP....60 pts easy.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

Like in 2008 when we won the Cup? Oh wait, that was Hudler.

It blows my mind that in the same post people are praising Flip and saying Hudler's inconsistent. Those posters would do well to look up game to game stats and see how incredibly streaky Flip has "consistently" been in his 3 years here.

And Hudler's worth $3 million on almost any other team, but not Detroit. When we've got a guy like Franzen with cap hits less than $4 million and Hossa potentially set to take something comparable, it's shameful to suggest streaky, unproven guys like Hudler and Flip are worth $3 million on this team. Hell, depending on how next year goes, both players might not be worth $3 million on other teams. If Hudler can find a way to become more consistent, he has a better upside than Flip, but that's a big "if."

But ultimately, when this season ended, I became content with the idea of losing Huds and trading Flip. It might be a year of regrouping where we don't do as much as we'd like, but longrun, this team needs a bit of fundamental tinkering. Nothing incredibly drastic, but there are some cap issues to get through and some style issues to consider. Changes are absolutely coming. It will be interesting to see what those changes will be come September.

I guess it's all a matter of opinion, but you won't be talking s*** about Flip when he's our next Datsyuk/Zetterberg. Flip's in the current situation where he's unfortunately working on the PK instead of the PP. Why don't I see Hudler on the PK?

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

Are you saying Huds needs to be on a top line to produce? If so, FAIL. As many people here have said, he's a third line guy.

At least with us.

No what I'm saying is he more easily fits into the role of a traditional 1st or 2nd line guy.

Here he'll be the 3rd line most nights. The Wings need to restructure their 3rd and 4th lines and Hulder is one of the guys that will have the axe fall on him.

so reading FAIL back to you.

[Motown4013 350]

This year. (although your comment about 4th line is true in terms of where his minutes were spent, Hudler was still among the top 6 forwards in playoff scoring this year)

Last year Filppula disappeared in the playoffs and Hudler shined.

As far as the OP goes, yeah Hudler is definitely worth $3 million.

08-09 Season:

Hudler- 23G, 57pts, 5th in forward scoring

Filppula- 12G, 40pts, 8th in forward scoring

07-08 Season:

Hudler- 13, 42pts, 4th in forward scoring

Filppula- 19, 36pts, 8th in forward scoring

If Filppula's worth 3 million long term then so is Hudler. One is an all around forward, one is a scoring forward and PP specialist. Cool. They're the same age and both are trending upwards. We need them both 10 years from now when Z and Dats have faded.

I think if we are looking at stats, the most astonishing stat is that Huds, in the regular season was the MOST effective player for points vs icetime. He made the most of the time he was given and minute for minute was better than Dats, Z, Hossa and the Mule. Thats amazing. He could easily get 3 mill on the open market because on most teams he would be on the 1st or 2nd line. He wont get it in Motown, be he would be worth it!!!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Filppula's stock has continued to rise while Hudler's has stayed, by and large, the same.

Huh?

Filppula:

06-07___07-08___08-09

10 G____19 G____12 G

17 pts___36 pts__40 pts

Hudler:

06-07___07-08___08-09

15 G____13 G____23 G

25 pts___42 pts__57 pts

Interesting interpretation of dropping stocks. One player managed to increase his points total by less than 10% and the other by more than 30%. Which one's stock stayed the same? Hudler? Oh really? I guess since his playoff scoring totals on the 3rd line weren't stellar (although they were among the top 6 forwards) and Val had a surprising outburst, the more consistent, higher scoring of the two is suddenly a lame horse? Don't go shooting Datsyuk then.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Those stats don't tell it all because of PP time for Huds and PK time for Flip. Additionally, Flip has gotten the hard job of being a shutdown center and playing that defensive role which has an impact on his offense.

Not so. Filppula gets 3-5 minutes more ice time each night and consistently plays with superior linemates. That makes up for the difference in PP time vs PK time.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

You are kidding right? WOW...did we watch the same playoffs? Flip consistantly was in the Top 3 forwards in the SCP for the Wings. Do you not recall the game willing back pass to Sammy? Not a playmaker huh??. He IS a playmaker and a good one at that. We have not ever come close to seeing his potential. He can be a 60pt guy and he never gets any powerplay time. He SHOULD be on the second powerplay and I think he will next year. We will see this time next year when he gets on the PP....60 pts easy.

So you think he's going to make a 50% increase in his points output because he's added to the PP?

A 50% increase in production from one season to another is a HUGE jump. Huge.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Does anybody realize there is a scenario that Hudler could resign anywhere for $3 Million/year and the Wings don't get this 1 & 3 that everybody is counting on.

1) Hudler is a RFA Arbitration Eligible.

2) He declares he wants to go to Arbitration and the Wings don't give him a contract that he and his agent like.

3) Go to Arbitration and the Arbitrator awards him something the Wings won't match and they walk away.

4) Hudler can now declare himself a UFA.

5) Signs anywhere for any salary. (Wings get 0 Picks)

It's pretty rare for a player to walk into arbitration and get triple his old salary or more in situations like this.

I don't see this Hudler situation being a big deal right now as it looks like Hossa's a long shot to sign here. If Hossa goes we keep Hudler. Worst case the Wings trade him for a similar high end scoring prospect.

Hudler's already almost hit the 60pt plateau in his third season, it's reasonable to say he could hit 70 next season.

To say he's plateaued as a 3rd year player (not that you did, another poster said it) is ludicrous when he's consistently increased his point totals and now his goal totals from one year to the next all without seeing increased ice time.

[Dominator2005 558]

Jiri Hudler - 255GP 52G 75A 127Pts 33+/- 90PIM's

Val Filppula - 235GP 41G 53A 94Pts 34+/- 92PIM's

They only way Hudler stays is if he takes a huge discount over what he is worth. His agent will definately bring up Filppula's contract as his worth. If he want's $3 million, let him test the market. He is definately worth $3 million, but not here, I'll take the 1st & 3rd picks in exchange...

With this kind of compensation we could move up in this year's draft and pick KASSIAN