Still not adding up to me.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

on CapGeek.com i pencil Ville Leino in for 875,000 and everyone else currently under contract. The result is 21 players signed for 55,195,653, which is 1,604,347 million in cap room. Now capgeek says we need to get 2 more playes signed, but I believe it is legal to have a 22 man roster (not positive).

The reason I bring all this up is this. How can we afford Hudler? Samuelsson just signed for 2.5, and I believe Hudler is better. Filppula got 3 million last year and even though I believe Flip is heads and shoulders above Hudler, an arbitrator might want to award him similar money due to his superior point production. To the people saying we might lose all three prior to the offseason, you guys might turn out to be right.

And please. Don't say we will be able to free up some room by trading Meech. He makes under the league minimum, people. If we deal him we would still have to bring someone else in to fill his roster spot.

[PRStoetzer 1]

A 21 man roster is legal. The Wings will have to move Lilja if he's healthy or put him on LTIR. That would free up $1.2 million and $2.8 million would be available for 1 or 2 players.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

A 21 man roster is legal. The Wings will have to move Lilja if he's healthy or put him on LTIR. That would free up $1.2 million and $2.8 million would be available for 1 or 2 players.

I honestly believe Hudler is going to get awarded 3-3.5 million. In which case, we would need to waive bye-bye. Hudler is not worth that much.

[AD2044 0]

I think your calculations include Abby's 850k so if we signed hudler to say 2.5 million a year along with your above Leino salary of 850k we would just send Abby down and things would be okay. When I imput that scenario we have 2000 dollars left in cap space. Holland has already said that we are going to trade a defencemen so when that happens we will be able to sign a 4th line player like Downey who makes 500k.

[dat's sick 1,002]

The good thing about Meech is that he can act as a 7th D-man and a 13th forward at the same time. Lebda or Lilja will be traded most likely.

But I agree that it's a little bit hard to see how we're going to be able to sign Hudler. He would have to take a big, big discount.

[stevie for president 42]

ahhh the beauty of a salary cap. we have easily the best front office in the sport. we take time and develope our draft picks, we dont go throwing out this wild contracts, in fact every big name on this team is underpaid, we have players that said publicly they wanted to stay here yet we still couldnt afford them, and now were probably going to lose our RFAs too. and why? because OTHER gms and teams dont know how to run a franchise or increase revenue. this makes no sense. why was there a lockout? and how is this CBA better than the last one?

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Very nice post.

I dont think it would be the worst thing in the world if we lost Hudler though. I know its hard for some people being that they have developed emotional attatchments to some of these players having watched them play over the years, but you got to remember this is the Red Wings. Guys like Samuelsson and Hudler are products of our system. The wings can throw almost any offensive minded player in there on the third line and they can become 40 point scorer. That is something we have to realize. In my mind, we have already replaced Samuelsson. I think Leino can pick up his production. While it sucks losing Hudler, if you look at the business aspect of it, it'd probably benefit us most to let him walk away. You cant get tied into a bad contract when you can easily replace him.

Our best bet would be to go into the regular season with some cap room and pick up 2 or 3 players at the trade deadline, much like Pittsburgh did with Guerin, Kunitz, and Fedotenko. I think we would be able to better access our team needs at that point anyways.

I think a guy like Matthew Lomabardi might be available at that time. A nice fast, 2 way forward that can put the puck in the net. He's an awesome penalty killer and above average faceoff man. We could get a couple guys like this if we just waited, and in my opinion we could get a couple of guys even better than Hudler. He only make 1.8 mil and it would be even less of a cap hit at the deadline.

Edited July 4, 2009 by wingsownnhl43

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Very nice post.

I dont think it would be the worst thing in the world if we lost Hudler though. I know its hard for some people being that they have developed emotional attatchments to some of these players having watched them play over the years, but you got to remember this is the Red Wings. Guys like Samuelsson and Hudler are products of our system. The wings can throw almost any offensive minded player in there on the third line and they can become 40 point scorer. That is something we have to realize. In my mind, we have already replaced Samuelsson. I think Leino can pick up his production. While it sucks losing Hudler, if you look at the business aspect of it, it'd probably benefit us most to let him walk away. You cant get tied into a bad contract when you can easily replace him.

Our best bet would be to go into the regular season with some cap room and pick up 2 or 3 players at the trade deadline, much like Pittsburgh did with Guerin, Kunitz, and Fedotenko. I think we would be able to better access our team needs at that point anyways.

I think a guy like Matthew Lomabardi might be available at that time. A nice fast, 2 way forward that can put the puck in the net. He's an awesome penalty killer and above average faceoff man. We could get a couple guys like this if we just waited, and in my opinion we could get a couple of guys even better than Hudler. He only make 1.8 mil and it would be even less of a cap hit at the deadline.

a guy like yzerman could convince lombardi to want to come to detroit. if i'm not mistaken, yzerman chose lombardi to play on the last team canada in the World Championship

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Lombardi is under contract with Phoenix. I meant trading for him at the deadline.

[tommingthepuck96 1]

I dont know how accurate either of these sites are but NHLnumbers says the wings have around than 5m in cap space.

http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DET&season=0910

[KrazyGangsta 79]

I think the best option for the Wings looking ahead for the future is to trade Hudler.

[Wingseroo 0]

Everyone keeps missing the point on Hudler... Your talking about a home grown guy that is 25 and has the potential to be 70 pt scorer... There is no one to bring in to fill the void left by losing all 3 of Sammy/Huds/Hossa... The Wings have carefully groomed Hudler up to this point to be a quality top 2 line scorer, and that time has come... The real elephant in the room no one seems to want to talk about is Homer... Homer is the kind of 1 dimensional over the hill type player that is eating cap space that is creating the problem... We can throw a young Huds under the bus, but loyalty keeps everyone from mentioning that Homer is the guy on the roster that seems to be out of place...

[Wingseroo 0]

I dont know how accurate either of these sites are but NHLnumbers says the wings have around than 5m in cap space.

http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DET&season=0910

They do not have the 1.617 Mil counted in for Big Rig and Howard...

P.S.

Leino should take cap down to around 3 mil after that...

Edited July 4, 2009 by Wingseroo

[LeftWinger 5,150]

I have been saying this about Hudler forever (and getting flamed up and down) that YES he is worth $3.5M but NOT HERE with out limited cap space! If we had $5.5m in cap and only three players to sign, sure then he woul get it here, but we don't and he won't... I know the possiblities of what Hudler can become, but unfortunately the cap will never let us see hwat he becomes UNLESS HE PLAYS FOR $2M OR LESS! Which, since he turned down the $2.5M offer, he obviously won't do, so he wants money over staying with a team that wins consistantly. Good on him, and goodbye!

Leino was picked up because of his potential to score, just in case we lost the likes of Hudler. We have a lot of youngins in GRR and still overseas that are also being groomed to be 2nd line scorers and 4th line grinders, we may initially miss HUdler's points, but in two or three years we won't even rememebr we had him...

[Wingseroo 0]

I have been saying this about Hudler forever (and getting flamed up and down) that YES he is worth $3.5M but NOT HERE with out limited cap space! If we had $5.5m in cap and only three players to sign, sure then he woul get it here, but we don't and he won't... I know the possiblities of what Hudler can become, but unfortunately the cap will never let us see hwat he becomes UNLESS HE PLAYS FOR $2M OR LESS! Which, since he turned down the $2.5M offer, he obviously won't do, so he wants money over staying with a team that wins consistantly. Good on him, and goodbye!

Leino was picked up because of his potential to score, just in case we lost the likes of Hudler. We have a lot of youngins in GRR and still overseas that are also being groomed to be 2nd line scorers and 4th line grinders, we may initially miss HUdler's points, but in two or three years we won't even rememebr we had him...

Wings have been grooming Hudler for this for 5 years... Keep a PP specialist like Homer for 2.25 mil to let a young guy like Hudler go is so stupid... Yes look at the roster and the most glaring number is Homer at 2.25 mil...

[HudlerFanatic 4]

I have tried and tried, but it's not making since to me either.....

If capgeek is correct, Abby is signed at $850,000

Leaving roughly $2.4Mil

If Leino is signed for 2 yrs @ the 5% raise (I read in one of these darn threads) that is $920,000

Hudler would have to sign for $1.5Mil for the 09/10

So how did Holland even offer $2.5????

If you figure in the UFA's for next year...(not the RFA) there will be $12.4Mil to play with for 10/11 where Hudler could make a raise, but until then......?????

So....either capgeek has Abby on the roster and he's NOT signed..or Holland still has something in the works....

Even if trying to give Huds a 2-4 year deal....with these numbers he could still only get $1.5 for 09/10 and then take a significant jump in pay the next three years....

Yes, I want him to stay, but I don't see how it can be done with the numbers at all.....

Even with those numbers who are you going to sign for under $1.5 of the free agents out there?

Now, if Abby is NOT already signed that is $3.2Mil to play with (rounding down)

Leino @ $920,000 for still leaves LESS than $2.5 ...so again, how did Holland offer $2.5???

(and yes there is still about $70,000 or something to work with I think...but still if rounding....I don't see how $2.5 was even on the table...)

Where are the accountants in here????? :!:

[Wingseroo 0]

I have tried and tried, but it's not making since to me either.....

If capgeek is correct, Abby is signed at $850,000

Leaving roughly $2.4Mil

If Leino is signed for 2 yrs @ the 5% raise (I read in one of these darn threads) that is $920,000

Hudler would have to sign for $1.5Mil for the 09/10

So how did Holland even offer $2.5????

If you figure in the UFA's for next year...(not the RFA) there will be $12.4Mil to play with for 10/11 where Hudler could make a raise, but until then......?????

So....either capgeek has Abby on the roster and he's NOT signed..or Holland still has something in the works....

Even if trying to give Huds a 2-4 year deal....with these numbers he could still only get $1.5 for 09/10 and then take a significant jump in pay the next three years....

Yes, I want him to stay, but I don't see how it can be done with the numbers at all.....

Even with those numbers who are you going to sign for under $1.5 of the free agents out there?

Now, if Abby is NOT already signed that is $3.2Mil to play with (rounding down)

Leino @ $920,000 for still leaves LESS than $2.5 ...so again, how did Holland offer $2.5???

(and yes there is still about $70,000 or something to work with I think...but still if rounding....I don't see how $2.5 was even on the table...)

Where are the accountants in here????? :!:

They should be around 3 mil without Abie counted and with Leino signed... An older player is going to have to be moved simply... 33 yr old Lilja 36 yr old Homer are the salaries I see, problem is finding a team that wants one of those players... Maltby is no help, he makes same money as Abdelkader... Draper at 1.5 mil per is worth more then Lilja at same money and Homer at 2.25 Mil, (3rd/4th line center/PK/face offs)... People may say Maltby is the easiest to lose, but nothing is gained by losing him cap wise... Nothing is really gained by losing Lebda cap wise, and Lebda is much younger then Lilja... Its basically Hudler vs some combo of Lilja/Homer, they are the only players that balance cap wise... Lilja or Lebda has to be gone anyway (or Stuart or Rafalski which is more of a gut the team move if they move 1 of them)... So really we are talking Lilja/Homer vs Hudler... NFL this would be a no brainer cut the older guys resign Hudler and fill a couple spots with cheaper younger guys, but the NHL system is a little more complex... There is likely a market for Lilja at his pay level, but I cant see anyone willing to take the Homer salary on...

[mangothrower 0]

Rounded UP to the nearest .01 million:

(Does not include Lilja)

Forwards:

Filppula ($3.00)

Cleary ($2.80)

Franzen ($3.96)

Abdelkader ($.85)

Datsyuk ($6.70)

Zetterberg ($6.09)

Draper ($1.59)

Hem ($.60)

Holmstrom ($2.25)

Maltby ($.89)

Total: $28.73

Defense:

Lidstrom ($7.45)

Rafalski ($6.00)

Stuart ($3.75)

Kronwall ($3.00)

Ericsson ($.90)

Lebda ($.65)

Meech ($.49)

Total: $22.24

Goalies:

Osgood ($1.42)

Howard ($.72)

Total: $2.14

Grand Total: $53.11, so $3.69 in space for Hudler and Leino.

[Thunderpriest 8]

I believe that Hudler is going to arbitration to ensure that he doesn't get ridiculous offer sheets and put the front office behind the 8 ball. I don't think he's looking for the big payday.

I believe that he'll sign a long term contract at a small avg cap hit so he can stay with the Red Vings.

Also, I hope that Lilja can get healthy and that Lebda & Meech are let go.

Meech isn't a good enough defenseman or forward to take somebody else's spot, so he plays in either role when the team is desperate.

By the way.....does anyone else hate the salary cap?

Edited July 4, 2009 by Thunderpriest

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

www.capgeek.com

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000

Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333

Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

* Jiri Hudler $2,200,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333

* Ville Leino $975,000

Kirk Maltby $883,333

Justin Abdelkader $850,000

Darren Helm $599,444

* Aaron Downey $500,000

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000

Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Brett Lebda $650,000

Derek Meech $483,333

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (including bonuses)

ROSTER SIZE 22

SALARY CAP $56,800,000

PAYROLL $56,745,653

BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0.2% of cap) $110,000

[HudlerFanatic 4]

That's not leaving enough space cap for injuries.......trade deadline.....etc..........am I right????

At the endo of this year 08/09, wasn't there at least $1.1M cap space left........

I mean, if you took Downey out...Huds could get at least $2.7 w/ $54,347 left....but that's not realistic........

Edited July 5, 2009 by HudlerFanatic

[Thunderpriest 8]

Okay.....

keep Lilja, trade Meech & Lebda, give Leino a modest raise, and get Hudler in below $2M with a longer term deal:

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000

Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333

Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

* Jiri Hudler $1,750,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333

* Ville Leino $925,000

Kirk Maltby $883,333

Justin Abdelkader $850,000

Darren Helm $599,444

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000

Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Andreas Lilja $1,250,000

Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

SALARY CAP $56,800,000

PAYROLL $55,862,320

BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0.2% of cap) $110,000

CAP ROOM $937,680

Okay...a couple of spots to fill with nearly $1M.

Hmmmmm

Trade Stuart, keep Lebda & Meech, Add Downey & bring back Shanny.

How does this look:

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.7), Henrik Zetterberg ($6.084), Tomas Holmstrom ($2.25)

Johan Franzen ($3.955), Valtteri Filppula ($3), * Brendan Shanahan ($1)

Daniel Cleary ($2.8), * Jiri Hudler ($2.5), * Ville Leino ($.925)

Kirk Maltby ($.883), Kris Draper ($1.583), Darren Helm ($.599)

Depth: Justin Abdelkader ($.85), * Aaron Downey ($.5)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($7.45), Brian Rafalaski ($6)

Niklas Kronwall ($3), Jonathan Ericsson ($.9)

Andreas Lilja ($1.25), Brett Lebda ($.65)

Derek Meech ($.483)

Chris Osgood ($1.416)

Jimmy Howard ($.716)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (including bonuses)

ROSTER SIZE 23

SALARY CAP $56,800,000

PAYROLL $55,495,653

BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0.2% of cap) $110,000

CAP ROOM $1,304,347

Now....if you really want to mix things up, trade Rafalski and keep Stuart.

Instead of Shanahan & Downey.....sign Sykora & Moen.

If we simply trade a higher salaried defensemen, we solve a number of issues.

We've all been concentrating on trading a lower value defenseman, but I bet Kenny makes the hard choice to better the team & keep some cap space available for the deadline.

Thoughts?

[HudlerFanatic 4]

Nicklas Lidstrom ($7.45), Brian Rafalaski ($6)

Niklas Kronwall ($3), Jonathan Ericsson ($.9)

Andreas Lilja ($1.25), Brett Lebda ($.65)

Derek Meech ($.483)

If we simply trade a higher salaried defensemen, we solve a number of issues.

We've all been concentrating on trading a lower value defenseman, but I bet Kenny makes the hard choice to better the team & keep some cap space available for the deadline.

Thoughts?

It makes sense (cap wise)...but who are you thinking of...I mean....honestly (IMO) I wouldn't trade anyone but possibly Meech and Lilja DEPENDING on his status..(and they are among the loswest paid)...the others, with those already lost, I think would just be TOO MUCH change for the Wings...as if there wasn't enough already....Kenny already said one would be traded possibly...but I don't think it will be one that will give us that much more in cap room...especially since he mentioned Meech's name in the same article.......

[Herr Hockey 0]

I think this site should be moved to www.STUARTHASANOTRADECLAUSE.com, and www.letsgowings.com should redirect people to the new site.

[Zeowingsfan 16]

I think this site should be moved to www.STUARTHASANOTRADECLAUSE.com, and www.letsgowings.com should redirect people to the new site.

People have been told many times that he has a NO TRADE CLAUSE in his contract, and the odds that he would waive it are not high IMHO nor do I think that Holland will ask him. He really stepped up his game in the playoffs and was one of our best defencemen even if people don't want to believe it.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Zeowingsfan