Loyalty: A Double Edged Sword

[T.Low 1,011]

Losing Hossa, Hudler, and Sammy in this off season has felt pretty bad for a lot of the fans. While I would go so far as to say I feel betrayed, some on LGW have. Many of us have talked about how we like that Detroit can be so loyal to its players, treating them like family. Yes, thats a great thing. We even expect players to take a hometown discount because of it.

However, it can really back fire when the committment is not there from both sides.

Did Detroit's trait of loyalty to its players turn around and bite us in the arse this off season, or are all the actions of the off season simply a product of the Cap Era?

And i'm talking both sides of loyalty; because many here think that Detroit is being too loyal to Maltby and possibly Draper and Holmer, too. As in "because" of Malts, Drapes,Holmer, and trying to keep Huds that we couldn't sign Hossa or go after the big FAs.

Just a thought that's been nagging at my brain for the last week or so, one that I've been trying to sort out and frame in a more cohesive pyschoanalytical way. Whattya think?

Edited July 15, 2009 by T.Low

[Gutierrez 7]

I think it is more of a positive then a negative. Yes in the short term we are going to lose players like Sammy or Huds beause we have guys like Malts, Draper, Homer, etc. signed and also in conjunction with the cap, but in the long run I think our loyalty helps more than it hurts. Players around the league take notice of how loyal we are and how well we treat our players and that is something that attracts them to come to Detroit aside from the chance to contend for Stanley's Cup every season. In this day and age of sports, loyalty isn't something you see very often and I beleive this is yet another trait that makes us the best organization not just in hockey, but in all of sports.

[skyphoenix 153]

I think that right now, loyalty is costing us a lot but I do think players (who are in it for more than money) appreciate that we are loyal and are willing to take somewhat of a discount to make it work here. Players like Zetterberg and Franzen could have easily made a lot more than what they took to stay here. I do think players past their prime (Maltby, Holmstrom, Chelios) costed us a bit last season.

Edited July 15, 2009 by skyphoenix

[CMatt89 63]

Well, if you didnt expect to see this comming...than you were too caught up in something else.. This is not a year where the Wings go for it all..Do they have a chance? Of course. While you see other teams bulking up the roster, they are also thinning out their wallets. What the Wings have in the next three years, is homegrown talent replacing our "new era founding fathers". Instead of Holland breaking bank by making trades and signing guys us fans think would be a perfect fit..He's using this year and the next few to let our rookies settle in and get acquainted. This is Detroits rebuilding. The core is set: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Cleary, Kronwall, Stuart. ( Yzerman, Fedorov, Lapointe, Shanny, Lidstrom, Chelios) And then we got young guns ready to play: Helm, Abdelkader, (Daper, Maltby) Erricsson, Howard..And after next season and maybe the next one after that we'll see Emmerton, Kindl and others replacing Lidstrom, Draper, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Osgood. Dont panic because we lost a group of expendibles. In order to clear up space for the future you have to weed out the guys who are replacable ( Sammy, Hudler, Kopecky). Losing Hossa is big, but it wont be the reason the Wings win or Lose this year. Be excited for what the future holds. Stop being negative because we didnt make drastic changes.

[Snazzy 0]

Loyalty has made Detroit Red Wings the best team in the NHL. The trend is a proven method that works, hope Holland continues on with it and I hope other teams' GM DON'T employ it! Wings didn't lose anyone needed or irreplaceable. They'll fill some holes and still likely make it to the WCF... and possibly win the cup.

[Guest ZetterbergFourty]

f*** Hossa.

[e_prime 1,936]

I think in the short term, specifically in this off-season when it comes to signing some of our key free agents; yes, it has seemingly bit us in the ass.

Wouldn't we all love to have younger and cheaper pieces to fill in the roles that Maltby, Draper, and Holmstrom currently fill?

Wouldn't we love to have all those goals, assists, and points back that seem to get brought up everytime we are lamenting the loss of our free agents?

Wouldn't we love to wheel and deal the way so many clubs have in this off season?

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

In everyone's dream mechanics of being a GM of a hockey team/head of the organization all this would magically fall into place.

Long-term we have an organization that attracts quality players who are willing to play for the team for a long period of time and are mostly willing to be paid for their services with a contract that is below market value. I will trade the three questions above to have this one constant. Sure, we may not win the cup every year... but year in and year out for as long as I can remember... this team and organization has been dedicated to the players and a team concept.

The day this changes and we start trading essential assets and key prospects to make a big splashy off-season deal...

will be the day I'll be looking for a new team to root for.

In specific regards to Hudler, Hossa, and Sammy... I do not be-moan any of them for the decisions they've made in this offseason. Hossa is a massive talent and deserves to get paid and have a long-term deal (if this is what he now wants.) I hope that he is happy and I hope that he doesn't fall victim to whatever cap-woes may hit Chicago. (unless of course they trade him back to us)

We still retain Hudler's rights as far as the NHL goes. As a prospect of the system, do I think Hudler deserves loyalty? Absolutely. Do I want him as a Wings uni if arbitration awards him more than 3 million for next year? No. I would hate to see the Wings handcuffed to the cap max. and be forced to trade key pieces if neccessity dictated it to stay under the cap. If Hudler is loyal to us and we are loyal to him, something will get worked out in his season with the KHL. Who knows, maybe Huds will shine over there and will warrant more respect and value as a goal scoring machine?? Netting him the contract and respect he supposedly desires with this franchise.

How much loyalty truly existed between the Wings and Sammy? He was not a product of our system. He signed a three year deal with us back in 2006. How much emphasis was paid to signing Sammy this off season? Did he feel slighted? Knowing our cap situation did Holland offer even offer him a deal, let alone a raise? Was he worthy of an offer or a deal anyway when it comes to long term value, productivity, and need. I am so abivalent about this non-issue I am starting to lose focus on... who?

I dunno. Maybe this is too "shiny happy," "even-keeled," or "voice of reason" ...but I for one am glad we are known as the franchise with loyalty.

[T.Low 1,011]

Well, if you didnt expect to see this comming...than you were too caught up in something else.. This is not a year where the Wings go for it all..Do they have a chance? Of course. While you see other teams bulking up the roster, they are also thinning out their wallets. What the Wings have in the next three years, is homegrown talent replacing our "new era founding fathers". Instead of Holland breaking bank by making trades and signing guys us fans think would be a perfect fit..He's using this year and the next few to let our rookies settle in and get acquainted. This is Detroits rebuilding. The core is set: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Cleary, Kronwall, Stuart. ( Yzerman, Fedorov, Lapointe, Shanny, Lidstrom, Chelios) And then we got young guns ready to play: Helm, Abdelkader, (Daper, Maltby) Erricsson, Howard..And after next season and maybe the next one after that we'll see Emmerton, Kindl and others replacing Lidstrom, Draper, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Osgood. Dont panic because we lost a group of expendibles. In order to clear up space for the future you have to weed out the guys who are replacable ( Sammy, Hudler, Kopecky). Losing Hossa is big, but it wont be the reason the Wings win or Lose this year. Be excited for what the future holds. Stop being negative because we didnt make drastic changes.

Well, actually, I do have quite an active life outside of being a Red Wing's fan and that may keep me from being able to foresee every aspect of the Wing's personnel movements. So no, I didn't really see Huds leaving, it was a bit of a suprise to me, I didn't see it coming. No need to be harsh about it.

I'm not being negative, its just an observation. By the same token, I'll put you down for one who would never tell the Emporer that he has no clothes on.

And why do you think the Wings would waste Nick Lidstrom's, Draper's, and Holmer's possible farewell years by not going for it all?

Would you be that rude face to face, or do you prefer the internet so you can be a bit rude to people asking genuine questions?

[T.Low 1,011]

I think in the short term, specifically in this off-season when it comes to signing some of our key free agents; yes, it has seemingly bit us in the ass.

Wouldn't we all love to have younger and cheaper pieces to fill in the roles that Maltby, Draper, and Holmstrom currently fill?

Wouldn't we love to have all those goals, assists, and points back that seem to get brought up everytime we are lamenting the loss of our free agents?

Wouldn't we love to wheel and deal the way so many clubs have in this off season?

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

In everyone's dream mechanics of being a GM of a hockey team/head of the organization all this would magically fall into place.

Long-term we have an organization that attracts quality players who are willing to play for the team for a long period of time and are mostly willing to be paid for their services with a contract that is below market value. I will trade the three questions above to have this one constant. Sure, we may not win the cup every year... but year in and year out for as long as I can remember... this team and organization has been dedicated to the players and a team concept.

The day this changes and we start trading essential assets and key prospects to make a big splashy off-season deal...

will be the day I'll be looking for a new team to root for.

In specific regards to Hudler, Hossa, and Sammy... I do not be-moan any of them for the decisions they've made in this offseason. Hossa is a massive talent and deserves to get paid and have a long-term deal (if this is what he now wants.) I hope that he is happy and I hope that he doesn't fall victim to whatever cap-woes may hit Chicago. (unless of course they trade him back to us)

We still retain Hudler's rights as far as the NHL goes. As a prospect of the system, do I think Hudler deserves loyalty? Absolutely. Do I want him as a Wings uni if arbitration awards him more than 3 million for next year? No. I would hate to see the Wings handcuffed to the cap max. and be forced to trade key pieces if neccessity dictated it to stay under the cap. If Hudler is loyal to us and we are loyal to him, something will get worked out in his season with the KHL. Who knows, maybe Huds will shine over there and will warrant more respect and value as a goal scoring machine?? Netting him the contract and respect he supposedly desires with this franchise.

How much loyalty truly existed between the Wings and Sammy? He was not a product of our system. He signed a three year deal with us back in 2006. How much emphasis was paid to signing Sammy this off season? Did he feel slighted? Knowing our cap situation did Holland offer even offer him a deal, let alone a raise? Was he worthy of an offer or a deal anyway when it comes to long term value, productivity, and need. I am so abivalent about this non-issue I am starting to lose focus on... who?

I dunno. Maybe this is too "shiny happy," "even-keeled," or "voice of reason" ...but I for one am glad we are known as the franchise with loyalty.

Good stuff. I see and agree, thanks.

[T.Low 1,011]

Loyalty has made Detroit Red Wings the best team in the NHL. The trend is a proven method that works, hope Holland continues on with it and I hope other teams' GM DON'T employ it! Wings didn't lose anyone needed or irreplaceable. They'll fill some holes and still likely make it to the WCF... and possibly win the cup.

Yeah, I agree. I just can't help but think it sort of bit us a little this off season. But I guess that is part of the defininiton of "committment". We possibly sacrificed this year for the sake of loyalty, and in the long run, I agree, its for the best in regards to the organization.

[Guest Shoreline]

Well, if you didnt expect to see this comming...than you were too caught up in something else.. This is not a year where the Wings go for it all..Do they have a chance? Of course. While you see other teams bulking up the roster, they are also thinning out their wallets. What the Wings have in the next three years, is homegrown talent replacing our "new era founding fathers". Instead of Holland breaking bank by making trades and signing guys us fans think would be a perfect fit..He's using this year and the next few to let our rookies settle in and get acquainted. This is Detroits rebuilding. The core is set: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Cleary, Kronwall, Stuart. ( Yzerman, Fedorov, Lapointe, Shanny, Lidstrom, Chelios) And then we got young guns ready to play: Helm, Abdelkader, (Daper, Maltby) Erricsson, Howard..And after next season and maybe the next one after that we'll see Emmerton, Kindl and others replacing Lidstrom, Draper, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Osgood. Dont panic because we lost a group of expendibles. In order to clear up space for the future you have to weed out the guys who are replacable ( Sammy, Hudler, Kopecky). Losing Hossa is big, but it wont be the reason the Wings win or Lose this year. Be excited for what the future holds. Stop being negative because we didnt make drastic changes.

Agreed with this. Losing Hossa was a given for those not "caught up in something else". Huds/Sammy was sort of a surprise, but it isn't as terrifying as some fans are making it out to be. This team has lost superstars and core players before, as no team is able to keep every single one of them year in and year out. I can't imagine how fans will react here when the Wings fail to take the Central. People look far too much for weird s*** to blame for something that is inevitably going to happen.

[T.Low 1,011]

Agreed with this. Losing Hossa was a given for those not "caught up in something else". Huds/Sammy was sort of a surprise, but it isn't as terrifying as some fans are making it out to be. This team has lost superstars and core players before, as no team is able to keep every single one of them year in and year out. I can't imagine how fans will react here when the Wings fail to take the Central. People look far too much for weird s*** to blame for something that is inevitably going to happen.

I guess I'm not sure of your post. I think most everyone knew Hossa was going to be a virtually impossible long shot, but you say 66% of the players you named that left was a bit of a suprise.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

We survived Yzerman, Shanahan and Fedorov leaving over a span of a few seasons.

I'm pretty sure we can survive losing Sammy, Hudler and the playoff choker Hossa.

Kopecky doesn't count as an NHL player, so his departure is about as big a deal as Zeppo Marx leaving the Marx Brothers.

[T.Low 1,011]

I think it is more of a positive then a negative. Yes in the short term we are going to lose players like Sammy or Huds beause we have guys like Malts, Draper, Homer, etc. signed and also in conjunction with the cap, but in the long run I think our loyalty helps more than it hurts. Players around the league take notice of how loyal we are and how well we treat our players and that is something that attracts them to come to Detroit aside from the chance to contend for Stanley's Cup every season. In this day and age of sports, loyalty isn't something you see very often and I beleive this is yet another trait that makes us the best organization not just in hockey, but in all of sports.

I guess thats really the way I see it too. Short term sting, but long term gain. And not that the sting is that bad, but it stings a little nonetheless. Just somehting thats been bugging at me, so I thought I'd see what you guys think. Thanks

[Doc Holiday 0]

We survived Yzerman, Shanahan and Fedorov leaving over a span of a few seasons.

I'm pretty sure we can survive losing Sammy, Hudler and the playoff choker Hossa.

Kopecky doesn't count as an NHL player, so his departure is about as big a deal as Zeppo Marx leaving the Marx Brothers.

Out of all of those, Sammy is the only one I'm going to truely miss.

Ironic considering I hate that bastard.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Out of all of those, Sammy is the only one I'm going to truely miss.

Ironic considering I hate that bastard.

So will I, just because he always made me laugh with his goofy looks and unusual hockey strategies, especially those backhand spin moves of his. His shot was also something to behold. It'll be hard finding an adequate replacement from a comedic standpoint.

However, Franzen is starting to get laughs out of me due to his odd behavior in scrums, so maybe he's the next comic relief.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The Red Wings won the Stanley Cup and came up 1 game short of winning the Stanley Cup 2 years in a row. Loyalty isn't a problem.

[Guest Crymson]

It's what makes the Red Wings unique, what makes players want to play here, what plays a large part in the locker room chemistry, and what makes players take less to play here .

It's worth it.

[Icesurfer 75]

It's what makes the Red Wings unique, what makes players want to play here, what plays a large part in the locker room chemistry, and what makes players take less to play here .

It's worth it.

BINGO!

Couldn't have said it any better...

[Doc Holiday 0]

So will I, just because he always made me laugh with his goofy looks and unusual hockey strategies, especially those backhand spin moves of his. His shot was also something to behold. It'll be hard finding an adequate replacement from a comedic standpoint.

However, Franzen is starting to get laughs out of me due to his odd behavior in scrums, so maybe he's the next comic relief.

See, at least when Sammy acted like a *****, he did it in a funny way.

I don't get that from Franner. And I hate it cause he is my favorite forward on the damn team.

[Stiffy 0]

We survived Yzerman, Shanahan and Fedorov leaving over a span of a few seasons.

I'm pretty sure we can survive losing Sammy, Hudler and the playoff choker Hossa.

Kopecky doesn't count as an NHL player, so his departure is about as big a deal as Zeppo Marx leaving the Marx Brothers.

Hey man, you really need to check your facts and do some homework here bucko. That's right, Zeppo was the true brains of the Brothers. He was the GLUE man. :-)

[p_diddy_datsyuk_13 2]

It will only be for one year... they are likely to at least offer Malts and Homer a contract next year, albeit at much lower salaries, Malts $0.5 Million and Homer $0.75 Million, as they have both slipped in productivity in their respective areas. This next offseason, we will have anywhere from $12-13 Million coming off the books. Factor in the expected fall in the cap, I estimate based on the NBA's projections (and the fact that the NHL's sponsors are nowhere near what the NBA's are), the cap will drop to around $50 Million, nearly a $7 Million falloff. So all that being said, the Wings will be able to reload next offseason, and may even get a very legitimate shot at a marquee free agent, Kovalchuk anyone??

For all the great years we have had, this will be on where we come back to earth...

[StevieY9802 6]

Well, if you didnt expect to see this comming...than you were too caught up in something else.. This is not a year where the Wings go for it all..Do they have a chance? Of course. While you see other teams bulking up the roster, they are also thinning out their wallets. What the Wings have in the next three years, is homegrown talent replacing our "new era founding fathers". Instead of Holland breaking bank by making trades and signing guys us fans think would be a perfect fit..He's using this year and the next few to let our rookies settle in and get acquainted. This is Detroits rebuilding. The core is set: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Cleary, Kronwall, Stuart. ( Yzerman, Fedorov, Lapointe, Shanny, Lidstrom, Chelios) And then we got young guns ready to play: Helm, Abdelkader, (Daper, Maltby) Erricsson, Howard..And after next season and maybe the next one after that we'll see Emmerton, Kindl and others replacing Lidstrom, Draper, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Osgood. Dont panic because we lost a group of expendibles. In order to clear up space for the future you have to weed out the guys who are replacable ( Sammy, Hudler, Kopecky). Losing Hossa is big, but it wont be the reason the Wings win or Lose this year. Be excited for what the future holds. Stop being negative because we didnt make drastic changes.

This is a great post. I have to say I didn't see Hudler leaving but I did see the others leaving, how could you not have? Is it hurtnig them now being loyal with guys like Draper, Malts and Homer? No not really. Those guys off the roster this year frees up money THIS year. That could be less players with more cap space taken up if you can keep Hossa and Hudler. So they 4.8mil without those guys, actually less than that cause of buyouts. Does it keep them Hudler? I dunno. I think they made a pretty fair offer to him for what he does for THIS team. An extra few hundred grand I don't thnk keeps him. You have to remember that he would need to be making 7-8mil on this team to be around the 5mil tax free mark in Russia. And really the only guy of the 3 older guys I might want gone is Malts. Draper is still a great faceoff guy and if Holmstrom stays healthy this year he is still effective. And what do you do buy them out and take a smaller cap hit over a longer time? I say you deal with it now and have all that cap space later, any little bit helps. Too many people here think in the short-term. This team will still be good this year and will have money to spend later and room for the young guys. While otehr teams are spending big money like Chicago, they will have to trade guys away next year while the Wings won't.

[Chunkylover 26]

I think it's all a result of the salary cap. Without it we'd have signed Hossa to the same contract he signed with Chicago, only we'd have done it last season. Z and Mule would probably make more money, too. Without the cap, Chelios, Sammy, and Happy would all be re-signed as well. I think all those players would have stayed if Detroit could afford them, so the loyalty goes both ways, but the cap screws it all up.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

loyalty is what makes this organization so great on and off the ice. it's unique. guys aren't always going to buy into the system, though. hudler leaving is understandable because he's a top six talent relegated to the third and fourth lines. babcock has no faith in him unless it's the shootout, i wouldn't want to be playing in that situation, either. hossa, i think everybody had to have expected him leaving somewhere in the back of their minds. we just never had the cap space to make it work. if holland hadn't signed franzen and had known that hudler was leaving, he could have worked something out, i'm sure, but i'd rather have franzen. who cares about sammy, conklin, or kopecky?