KHL will honor NHL's decision on Hudler

[SweWings 45]

If no one was going to give him an offer sheet, what makes anyone want to touch him now!

Hudler will be in Det or KHL

Hudler went to arbitration to prevent that from happening.

[uk_redwing 495]

Dont want him in this organisation.

[evilmrt 636]

Sign him to whatever he is offered. There is absolutely no reason the Wings should just let him "Walk away". They could still trade his rights and plenty of teams would be willing to sit out in a Russia two seasons.

Trading him for a draft pick is better than nothing.

Thank you for actually having some sense, unlike all these people that are over-emotional and just want him gone. It would be a damned shame to not get something out of this.

So if he signs for 4 mil, what sort of takers do you guys see? Toronto? Phoenix?

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Thank you for actually having some sense, unlike all these people that are over-emotional and just want him gone. It would be a damned shame to not get something out of this.

So if he signs for 4 mil, what sort of takers do you guys see? Toronto? Phoenix?

CANNOT TRADE HIM FOR 1 YEAR AFTER HE IS AWARDED A CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya, sign him for $4.5M and trade Fippula AND Kronwall just to fit him in! Talk about having team GRR up here!

[Peleshob 0]

CANNOT TRADE HIM FOR 1 YEAR AFTER HE IS AWARDED A CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya, sign him for $4.5M and trade Fippula AND Kronwall just to fit him in! Talk about having team GRR up here!

I'm not saying you're wrong, but everything I've read points to the contrary. I've read over the CBA explanation on arbitration and nowhere did I read that a player cannot be traded after being awarded an arbitration contract. I've seen other topics on other sites discussion how Zherdev (also in arbitration) would likely be moved if/when the Rangers accepted his arbitrated contract.

Do you have a link to where it says a player cannot be traded after a club accept arbitration? I just want to get this whole thing understood for good.

Edit: I think you may be thinking about player and offer sheets, not arbitration.

"If the original team chooses to accept, or “match” the offer sheet, the player cannot be traded for one year. "

Edited July 16, 2009 by Peleshob

[Mors 201]

CANNOT TRADE HIM FOR 1 YEAR AFTER HE IS AWARDED A CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya, sign him for $4.5M and trade Fippula AND Kronwall just to fit him in! Talk about having team GRR up here!

I believe this is true, if Detroit and Hudler agree with the arbitration number...Hudler cannot be traded for 1 year afterwords. Hence, he needs to go...

[Dimaline312000 51]

I say just let Hudler go. Not that he isn't a great player but save the Cap Space to possibly fill a hole at the Deadline. Bring Abs up permanantley and let's go with what we have. We are still a strong Cup and possibly President's Trophy contending team.

[Peleshob 0]

I believe this is true, if Detroit and Hudler agree with the arbitration number...Hudler cannot be traded for 1 year afterwords. Hence, he needs to go...

I'm almost positive that rule pertains to offer sheets, not arbitration.

"If the original team chooses to accept, or “match†the offer sheet, the player cannot be traded for one year. "

[Grim 5]

I'm pretty sure the arbitrator only sets the contract value, ie xx dollars per... its still up to the Wings' org whether to accept the 1-year minimum or longer term length. If Holland balks, Huds walks away as a UFA.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Sign him to whatever he is offered? We only have $1.8M left, $3.0M if Lilja is LTIR'd! BTW, Arbitration rules say you cannot trade an awarded player for at least a year after his contract is signed. So, NO, this is not a good idea. If he is awarded anyting NEAR $3.0M or more (which he is worth on the market) then let him go to the KHL, he could still be Wings property in two years...

Hudler (Svboda) handcuffed Holland by doing this, he should have just accepted the 5 year 15M contract. (which was still too much for our cap space situation, but at least Holland tried.)

Best choice now is to let Hudler get his award, let him go to the KHL and "Get Better." Don't know how much better he will get over there, but maybe he will like it too much and stay aw well! He has said the only NHL team he wants to play for is Detroit, so maybe when he is done getting rich, he'll come back here and be a team player again... (I hope not)

In what universe is that true? There is no rule saying that. Teams are 100% allowed to trade a player they sign to an arbitrated agreement. They can trade the player at any time after signing.

Also, how is the 5 year 15M contract "still to much for our cap space situation" if Holland offered it? He could obviously make it work or he wouldn't have done it. It can't be too much for the situation if he's deemed it an appropriate response for the club to take... he's not going to offer something he doesn't feel is beneficial to the team.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

CANNOT TRADE HIM FOR 1 YEAR AFTER HE IS AWARDED A CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya, sign him for $4.5M and trade Fippula AND Kronwall just to fit him in! Talk about having team GRR up here!

Not true. Oh, I mean NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe this is true, if Detroit and Hudler agree with the arbitration number...Hudler cannot be traded for 1 year afterwords. Hence, he needs to go...

Yeah, people seem to be mixing arbitration contracts up with offer sheet signings.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but everything I've read points to the contrary. I've read over the CBA explanation on arbitration and nowhere did I read that a player cannot be traded after being awarded an arbitration contract. I've seen other topics on other sites discussion how Zherdev (also in arbitration) would likely be moved if/when the Rangers accepted his arbitrated contract.

Do you have a link to where it says a player cannot be traded after a club accept arbitration? I just want to get this whole thing understood for good.

Edit: I think you may be thinking about player and offer sheets, not arbitration.

"If the original team chooses to accept, or “match†the offer sheet, the player cannot be traded for one year. "

This.

[Mors 201]

I'm almost positive that rule pertains to offer sheets, not arbitration.

"If the original team chooses to accept, or “match†the offer sheet, the player cannot be traded for one year. "

Fair enough, in either case I don't want Hudler back. This team should take this as an opportunity to replace a tiny little man with a player (or two) who brings something to the table we don't already have. Scoring goals has never been the problem.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Fedorov didn't leave for MORE money... Hudler deserves more money and he doesn't want to be on the 3rd line. But he doesn't want to play for any other NHL team than Detroit. BTW, he voted for the war and then changed his mind later and voted against it!

This guy just wants his payday. He is a me first player, not a team player. But I do not blame him for wanting a pay day. If someone offered me a 30% (or more) pay raise, I'd leave my current job too!!! (on the contrary, my job STOLE 20% from me!!! (then gave themselves bonuses!))

To be fair it isnt really a 20% increase in money, its more like a 200% increase.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I'm pretty sure the arbitrator only sets the contract value, ie xx dollars per... its still up to the Wings' org whether to accept the 1-year minimum or longer term length. If Holland balks, Huds walks away as a UFA.

Yup. That's how it goes. It should be noted that teams practically never walk away from the contract offer, they just sign the contract and trade the player. There's pretty much no reason to walk away from it when you could trade the player for some sort of asset.

[Peleshob 0]

Yup. That's how it goes. It should be noted that teams practically never walk away from the contract offer, they just sign the contract and trade the player. There's pretty much no reason to walk away from it when you could trade the player for some sort of asset.

To be honest I was waiting for you to pop in, lol. I figured you'd know too.

I'd prefer the Wings to accept the offer and then move him. The only way he goes to the KHL is by becoming an UFA and then we get nothing for him. It might sound like a dick move, but so is leaving the organization and giving us nothing in return.

[Glubki 17]

I think that one year no trade stipulation is only for offer sheets when a team matches the contract offer - not arbitration...

Here is the link explaining what may have caused the confusion.

Offer Sheets

Sorry Peleshob - I missed your post...

Edited July 16, 2009 by Glubki

[Drake_Marcus 890]

If no one was going to give him an offer sheet, what makes anyone want to touch him now!

Hudler will be in Det or KHL

Because offer sheets are almost never used. 90% of the clubs in the NHL don't use them because the system right now is a gentleman's agreement not to dip your finger in another's pudding. Edmonton, for example, has opened themselves up to the world now. If they manage to draft a player worth stealing on an offer sheet you can bet people will take a run at them because they did it to everyone else.

This isn't the NBA where offer sheets are considered normal business practice. In the NHL you're kicking the side of a hornet's nest by signing a player to an offer sheet.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

To be honest I was waiting for you to pop in, lol. I figured you'd know too.

I'd prefer the Wings to accept the offer and then move him. The only way he goes to the KHL is by becoming an UFA and then we get nothing for him. It might sound like a dick move, but so is leaving the organization and giving us nothing in return.

Thanks for the vote of confidence

Yeah, I'd say we're either keeping him or getting a great return for him. His arbitration value won't be above market value (based on what his agent's asking), he's 25 and has trended upwards every single year of his career and he's already hit 23g 57pts. While he's not elite defensively he's not a liability (people saying he's terrible defensive are just spewing hyperbole or at best confused into thinking Zetterberg and Datsyuk are the norm defensively). He's small, but so are a bunch of players in the NHL.

This news from the KHL is great for Wings fans. We're not going to lose an asset without some return.

[e_prime 1,936]

Here's a link to the CBA.

http://www.nhlpa.com/CBA/index.asp

Article 12 pgs. 52-65

Absolutely no mention of the tradeability of a player that has gone through arbitration.

--

This is where the topic of loyalty comes around again...

Our choices:

A. Accept the arbitration decision, sign Hudler to a one year deal and play him.

B. Walk away from the decision and allow Hudler to become a UFA.

C. Accept the arbitration decision, sign Hudler to a one year deal and trade him.

What do you do if you're Holland?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Here's a link to the CBA.

http://www.nhlpa.com/CBA/index.asp

Article 12 pgs. 52-65

Absolutely no mention of the tradeability of a player that has gone through arbitration.

--

This is where the topic of loyalty comes around again...

Our choices:

A. Accept the arbitration decision, sign Hudler to a one year deal and play him.

B. Walk away from the decision and allow Hudler to become a UFA.

C. Accept the arbitration decision, sign Hudler to a one year deal and trade him.

What do you do if you're Holland?

In my opinion there's no way B happens. Letting Hudler leave to the KHL was different when it allowed the Wings to keep his rights, but letting such a valuable asset go for free (B) would be a foolish move at this point.

The choice between A and C is down to how much the arbitration decision goes for. Now that the KHL doesn't plan to allow an illegal defection I'd say Hudler's attitude has probably changed a bit. If Holland makes it clear to him that they can't afford to lose his rights for nothing and they'll have to trade him to whatever club offers the best return if the arbiter awards him a deal too large... well I think Hudler will be more interested in settling for that 5 year deal. If we can get him signed for 5 years at 3 million per that's a steal. He's trending up and already passed the 55 point plateau. Hudler will break 60, likely 65 next season. who knows where he'll be offensively in 5 years.

[russianswede919293 95]

In my opinion there's no way B happens. Letting Hudler leave to the KHL was different when it allowed the Wings to keep his rights, but letting such a valuable asset go for free (B) would be a foolish move at this point.

The choice between A and C is down to how much the arbitration decision goes for. Now that the KHL doesn't plan to allow an illegal defection I'd say Hudler's attitude has probably changed a bit. If Holland makes it clear to him that they can't afford to lose his rights for nothing and they'll have to trade him to whatever club offers the best return if the arbiter awards him a deal too large... well I think Hudler will be more interested in settling for that 5 year deal. If we can get him signed for 5 years at 3 million per that's a steal. He's trending up and already passed the 55 point plateau. Hudler will break 60, likely 65 next season. who knows where he'll be offensively in 5 years.

Agreed. However I am concerned about fitting 3 million dollars under cap. Feasably they could do it but to do so involves trading 2 players...Obviously Meech or Lebda is gone, but that still leaves them without enough money to sign a 12th forward...

The other side is that if Lilja is out Long Term still it leaves plenty of money...SO: a 3 million dollar contract, in my opinion will result in the 12th forward being a 500K player/a tryout in training camp, and then a wait and see on Lilja...if he is healthy then they need to trade another player...

[zata20 4]

In what universe is that true? There is no rule saying that. Teams are 100% allowed to trade a player they sign to an arbitrated agreement. They can trade the player at any time after signing.

Also, how is the 5 year 15M contract "still to much for our cap space situation" if Holland offered it? He could obviously make it work or he wouldn't have done it. It can't be too much for the situation if he's deemed it an appropriate response for the club to take... he's not going to offer something he doesn't feel is beneficial to the team.

I have no idea if this one year trade rule is true or not, but apparently Anshar is confused then too.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...will_honor.html

[e_prime 1,936]

Oh, RIGHT!!

We can still negotiate!!

...and here's where organizational loyalty will probably shine.

D. Continue to negotiate with Hudler and let him know that the 5 yr./15 million deal still stands.

...if Hudler takes the deal now, I think it shows he really DOES want to be a Detroit Red Wing.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Agreed. However I am concerned about fitting 3 million dollars under cap. Feasably they could do it but to do so involves trading 2 players...Obviously Meech or Lebda is gone, but that still leaves them without enough money to sign a 12th forward...

The other side is that if Lilja is out Long Term still it leaves plenty of money...SO: a 3 million dollar contract, in my opinion will result in the 12th forward being a 500K player/a tryout in training camp, and then a wait and see on Lilja...if he is healthy then they need to trade another player...

If Hudler signs for 3 million they can fit him under the cap by signing a $575k (max) grinder for the 12 forward spot, keeping Meech as a spare part for injury purposes and trading Lilja. It'd only leave ~275k in cap room for LTIR call-ups, so the Wings might decide to drop someone else and replace them with someone cheaper.

For the grinder forward I'd give Oulahan a shot in the preseason since he'd come dirt cheap and is a pk specialist.

[HudlerFanatic 4]

I have no idea if this one year trade rule is true or not, but apparently Anshar is confused then too.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...will_honor.html

.....adding to that confusion.......

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/07/th...ion_wicket.html

The sticky arbitration wicket for the Red Wings, Jiri Hudler

Posted by George James Malik July 16, 2009 14:49PM

Per the New York Times' Jeff Z. Klein, KHL president Alexander Medvedev has suggested that the KHL will honor the ruling made by the IIHF's court of arbitration regarding Red Wings forward Jiri Hudler's ability to sign with Dynamo Moscow despite his status as a restricted free agent who filed for salary arbitration...

But, depending on your CBA point of view, Red Wings' contractual hands are either tied until the IIHF rules, or they may very well find themselves tied to Hudler as soon as the arbitration hearing takes place on the 31st. The Globe and Mail's James Mirtle offers the former opinion...

July 16, From the Rink: Hudler's arbitration hearing is scheduled for July 31, but if the KHL's waiting on the Red Wings to walk away from an arbiter's award, they're likely to be SOL. Only in very rare cases do NHL clubs walk away from a decision, and even though a large award to Hudler would put Detroit over the salary cap, they can simply agree to the deal and trade him for other, less expensive assets.

Hudler gets his money, gets out of Detroit and stays in the NHL, while the Red Wings don't lose him for nothing. Even if they only pull in draft picks or depth prospects for his rights, that's preferable to an outright defection, and to me, that looks like where we're headed.

While MLive.com's own Ansar Khan argues the latter point:

July 16, MLive.com: The Wings' last offer to the 25-year-old forward was a five-year deal worth $3 million a season. They will continue talks with Hudler's agent in hopes of avoiding the arbitration hearing.

If the case goes to arbitration, Hudler will be awarded a one- or two-year contract. If the Wings choose to accept it, they cannot trade him for one year.

From what I understand regarding the arbitration process, the Red Wings have the right to say, "Okay, we're going to work out a sign-and-trade deal so that we'll trade your rights to a team which will accept the offer on our behalf."