GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 No one complained about having "goons" on the team in the past, or even semi-skilled players who could fight...it's only become hip in the past 5 years or so to deny the entertainment value of having some grit on the team. Expect minimal support for a goon signing on these boards, you'll be labeled as a bandwagon fan if you question the roster selected by the management in any way. You're a bandwagoner just for making that post. Go root for the Ducks and Flyers, dammit! How anyone can complain about guys who turtle and dive is beyond me. Shame on you, man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 The game has changed a little bit, but not as much as some people here believe it has. Some posters here believe the NHL is the KHL and probably think fighting is illegal in hockey. I'm guessing they only watch Wings games and no others. That way when someone drops the gloves with a Wings player once in a blue moon, everyone here is quick to label that guy a goon and a dirty player who's just trying to hurt one of our guys. Enforcers have been withered down in the "new NHL", but not eliminated, since they're on every team (except one). Well, clearly neither of us fall into this category so we can leave that out of this debate. I watch somewhere in the ballpark of 500-600 hockey games a year and to say the game hasn't changed in the regard to it being more difficult for one dimensional enforcers to keep their jobs isn't true. Laraque even agrees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 You're a bandwagoner just for making that post. Go root for the Ducks and Flyers, dammit! How anyone can complain about guys who turtle and dive is beyond me. Shame on you, man. We're having a decent debate here, and no one in this current discussion is making those comments, so lets not even get into that. I'm not calling you guys grit-slappies (nor am I implying that Mors comment was in reference to me). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Are you serious? The rules are completely different, putting a much greater emphasis on speed and skill. Enforcers that aren't talented enough in either of those categories either (a) aren't in the league very long or (b) don't play when it matters the most. Yes, I'm serious. Yes, the game has been opened up and is faster. All players must be faster today. That alone is not enough to conclude that there is less need for enforcers today than there was in the late '90s. Seems to me that something else changed too, otherwise you'd be clamouring for a fast enforcer. What did Mac do that was needed then that isn't needed now? You mention that the big brawl with the Aves was what many players stated "brought the team together". Do you see that situation as impossible in today's game, or do you think that the wings have roster guys as tough as Mac, Lapointe, Shanahan, Puschor and Ward who could take care of that situation if it were repeated? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 This is what Holmstrom brings: You mean except arguably the best net presence in all of hockey? g14 a23 p37 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Am I mistaken in believing that we went to game 7 of the stanley cup finals with our two best players injured? However, clearly our recipe for success isn't working. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Am I mistaken in believing that we went to game 7 of the stanley cup finals with our two best players injured? However, clearly our recipe for success isn't working. I don't think anyone is saying we should change the recipe. We just need to add a few ingredients to it without it losing its flavor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) It'd be great if we had an enforcer on our team who could do that to Corey Perry. Edited August 3, 2009 by GMRwings1983 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Am I mistaken in believing that we went to game 7 of the stanley cup finals with our two best players injured? However, clearly our recipe for success isn't working. Who are you addressing? Is there a poster who stated that the wings need an enforcer in order to sniff the cup again? I think most hockey folk would agree that the Wings odds of winning the cup with Maltby on the 4th line durring the reg season are about as good as they are with a Downey type player playing those games instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 I don't think anyone is saying we should change the recipe. We just need to add a few ingredients to it without it losing its flavor. Except a strictly goon doesn't fit into it at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobbles 252 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 It'd be great if we had an enforcer on our team who could do that to Corey Perry. well played sir! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Except a strictly goon doesn't fit into it at all. What bad things would happen if we had Aaron Downey rotating in and out of the 4th line durring the reg season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Who are you addressing? Is there a poster who stated that the wings need an enforcer in order to sniff the cup again? I think most hockey folk would agree that the Wings odds of winning the cup with Maltby on the 4th line durring the reg season are about as good as they are with a Downey type player playing those games instead. The op. Well then are you lobbying towards it for entertainment purposes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zion 93 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 My only concern is this: Malkin beat up Zetterberg Crosby beat up Zetterberg That can't happen again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 What bad things would happen if we had Aaron Downey rotating in and out of the 4th line durring the reg season? Downey brings great energy/checking, I would be glad to have him on the fourth line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 The OP is a genius. His post was 4 words long, and the thread is already up to five pages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zion 93 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 This could have been Osgood: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holmstrom96 347 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 You mean except arguably the best net presence in all of hockey? g14 a23 p37 I agree. I don't think Homlstrom is super-awesome, and I know he's nothing without talent around him, as opposed to a Datsyuk that doesn't require surrounding talent. McCarty cannot score. McCarty can't fight. McCarty can't skate. He can't do the things he used to do. He was once awesome, but his career should be over now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 My only concern is this: Malkin beat up Zetterberg Crosby beat up Zetterberg That can't happen again. QFT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Yes, I'm serious. Yes, the game has been opened up and is faster. All players must be faster today. That alone is not enough to conclude that there is less need for enforcers today than there was in the late '90s. Seems to me that something else changed too, otherwise you'd be clamouring for a fast enforcer. What did Mac do that was needed then that isn't needed now? My point is that Mac can't provide for this team what he did provde for them in the 90's. Mac was tough yet had some skill to go along with his style of play. That's not the case anymore for him, and that's all I was referring to in regards to Mac. You mention that the big brawl with the Aves was what many players stated "brought the team together". Do you see that situation as impossible in today's game, or do you think that the wings have roster guys as tough as Mac, Lapointe, Shanahan, Puschor and Ward who could take care of that situation if it were repeated? I most certainly don't think the Wings have guys as tough as the all-around 90's version of the Wings, but I also don't see that situation happening again. It was a very unique situation that would be hard enough to replicate, especially given the current Red Wings roster. The 90's version was chippier, and that's part of the reason the March 97 brawl took place to begin with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 The OP is a genius. His post was 4 words long, and the thread is already up to five pages. This topic couldn't be more polarizing if it were about *** abortions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 For what it's worth I think we might want to try little more grit/toughness(whatever other adjective you prefer) but not on the bottom lines. An infusion of grit to go along with the skill of our top guys might go a long way towards lowering the physical toll on the likes of zetterberg/datsyuk,filp,etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 For what it's worth I think we might want to try little more grit/toughness(whatever other adjective you prefer) but not on the bottom lines. An infusion of grit to go along with the skill of our top guys might go a long way towards lowering the physical toll on the likes of zetterberg/datsyuk,filp,etc. Yeah, but that takes more cash than an enforcer. Guys like that are hard to find, especially since the free agency period is basically over when it comes to big names. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobbles 252 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 This could have been Osgood: but the sharks had shelley. so even though they had a fighter/tough guy/goon it didn't stop this from happening. and personally i think thats one of the big misconceptions about having a fighter. i think idiot players that take chap shots are going to do it regardless. it doesn't matter if the other team has a fighter. because most of the people that take cheap shots are going to turtle away from fights anyways. so why would someone need to be scared of downey/godard/shelley? its not like kronwall or stuart are afraid to go for big hits because the wings don't have an enforcer to protect them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
