Who will score more points next year?

[egroen 384]

Williams has scored 58 points as a Red Wing

Filppula scored 40 points last year

Cleary has been as high as 42 points

Leino will have his rookie season after leading the Finnish elite league and 46 points in the AHL

Eaves scored 32 points his rookie year with the Senators

Filppula and Cleary have great chances for more ice time - with Filppula centering the second line and Cleary substituting for Holmstrom on the 1st line on occassion.

Williams has scored the most, but might find himself in Babcock's doghouse on a consistent basis.

Leino and Eaves are tough to guage at this point.

[newfy 695]

I Cleary is playing on the top line like I tihnk he deserves and plays like this years playoffs then he's a shoe in IMO. If he's getting 3rd line minutes then its much harder to say.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Dano, Flip, Leino, Eaves, J-Will in that order.

[servo 15]

I predict that Flip will have a career year. I think he will have more pressure to shoot and not set up everyone else.

So I'll go out on the limb and predict

Flip 60 points 23 g 37 a

Danny Boy 50P 21 g 30 a

J Williams 50 P 15g 35 a

Leino 45P 15g 30

Eaves 30 p 10g 20a

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Dano, Flip, Leino, Eaves, J-Will in that order.

Williams got 19 goals and 47 points last season (which he split between Atlanta and Columbus). You honestly think he'll regress when added to the Wings roster?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I predict that Flip will have a career year. I think he will have more pressure to shoot and not set up everyone else.

So I'll go out on the limb and predict

Flip 60 points 23 g 37 a

Danny Boy 50P 21 g 30 a

J Williams 50 P 15g 35 a

Leino 45P 15g 30

Eaves 30 p 10g 20a

Wow. An extra 90 seconds on the PP and thirty seconds less even strength equates to a 50% increase in his production. That is a bold prediction.

[gcom007 1,465]

I went wild and voted Eaves. It's probably wishful thinking but I'd love to see him come in and surprise a lot of people and I think he's got the potential if he gets his head straight. There's no better team to prove yourself with then the Wings and he'll get the chance. Williams could be good. Who knows? I'm going to be positive despite the fact that I am not the biggest fan of the signing. All of the guys mentioned sans Leino have potential to put up between 40-50 points next year and we'll need them to. Leino has the skills but as I've said again and again, I'm not going to expect too much from him in his rookie year. I'm excited about his career, I'm not going to sweat the first season if he doesn't put up star numbers.

I think Flip and Cleary will disappoint many here. I think they'll probably do 40 points each give or take 5 points but especially for Flip, that'll disappoint many. It's what I expect so I won't be disappointed.

[gcom007 1,465]

Williams got 19 goals and 47 points last season (which he split between Atlanta and Columbus). You honestly think he'll regress when added to the Wings roster?

True story. I'm one of the many people who didn't like the signing but it's hardly as bad as even I've made it out to be. My distaste with him has as much to do with some iffy on-ice problems as it does off-ice mouth-running. I think he'll be fine at the price and provide 40-50 points. Who knows, maybe more. I'm willing to be open minded about the guy maturing and pushing himself to become a better, more complete player. Here's hoping, eh?

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

Filppula!

[wingslionstigers 12]

Wow. An extra 90 seconds on the PP and thirty seconds less even strength equates to a 50% increase in his production. That is a bold prediction.

And playing with top 6 forwards?? Last year who did he play with all season? Yeah.....

16 points in 23 games in the playoffs playing on the top 2 lines. That would average around 60 points on an 82 game schedule. I say Flip easily posts 60 points this season.

[dat's sick 1,002]

I also think Flip can reach 60 points, IF he starts to shoot more.

He showed in the playoffs what a great player he has the potential to become. I think some people really are underestimating him. He had a very, very slow first half of last season, that's the only reason he didn't have 50-ish points.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

And playing with top 6 forwards?? Last year who did he play with all season? Yeah.....

16 points in 23 games in the playoffs playing on the top 2 lines. That would average around 60 points on an 82 game schedule. I say Flip easily posts 60 points this season.

That was the best 16 games of Filppula's career. If we project one's season based on the best 16 game stretch in their career we'd have to expect Zetterberg to have a 200 point season (which he was on pace for at the beginning of the 07-08 season).

Oh, and Franzen has been a point per game player over the last two post seasons, so we can say Franzen should easily post 82 points this season, right? Like he did last season?

But hey, let's be super generous. Let's assume Filppula produces at his best rate in his career for an entire season (despite him being notoriously inconsistent, see first half stats last year). That's 57 points. If he can stretch his level of play from the best 16 game stretch of his career out over a full season (and he's yet to play a full 82 game season in the NHL) he will have 57 points. So that's his best case scenario under your assumptions. Hardly the same as "easily posts 60 points this season". And all this assumes Filppula's got the offensive talent to be a 60+ point guy next season (which would make him one of the top 30 centres in the game, as in good enough to be the #1 centre in many cities, since Hudler's 57 pts were good for 30th overall in centres last year, and yeah- Hudler's listed as a centre on NHL.com).

Now, on to the myth that Filppula's been forced to suffer linemates that are his offensive inferiors (I can only assume this is a case of Fil fans projecting Hudler's situation onto Val). In 2007-2008 Filppula was the centre on the 2nd line when the year started. When Hank and Pav were together Filppula was the second line centre (and try to remember just how often Hank and Pavel were together). When Hank was injured Val was on Pavel's wing. Why did Babcock play with splitting Hank and Pav up so often? Val wasn't creating sufficient offense on the second line. This year it will be the same question-- can we afford to keep Dats and Z together? I'm hoping Val and Franzen will gel with their other linemate (Leino or Williams) well enough to make it possible to keep Z and Dats together. What about the 2008-2009 season? Filppula spent at least half the year playing in the top six. How do I know? Well aside from watching every single game, I also know that Filppula's even strength and total average ice time is among the top six forward totals on the team.

I'm not trying to discredit Filppula or put him down-- he's never claimed to be a first line centre caliber player. I'm trying to help posters here understand the realistic situation here-- Val isn't the next Datsyuk. He's not going to be a top 30 scorer. He is going to be an excellent 2nd line centre who will eventually play 18-20 mins a night every night for years to come. He's a very valuable piece of the team, no question. But people need to stop telling themselves that he's an elite scoring talent because they're setting themselves up for disappointment.

[esteef 2,679]

Flip, Cleary, J-Will, Eaves, Leino.

esteef

[Snazzy 0]

I think it be between flip and Williams. I hope all these guys break 20 goals each.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I also think Flip can reach 60 points, IF he starts to shoot more.

He showed in the playoffs what a great player he has the potential to become. I think some people really are underestimating him. He had a very, very slow first half of last season, that's the only reason he didn't have 50-ish points.

And Datsyuk had a very slow first half of the season compared to his second half. That doesn't mean he should've put up 120 points.

Inconsistency is the first thing Filppula needs to nail down if he wants to become a legitimate scoring talent. If he can make his best stretches of hockey his "norm" then he'll definitely crack 60pts. But that's real tough to do for any player.

Shooting more? Yes please. But his shot is definitely the weakest point of his game. He's a much, much, much better passer than shooter. He just needs to make better "shoot or pass" choices. That will come with experience and self confidence. Both of which will develop over time, not over night.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I think it be between flip and Williams. I hope all these guys break 20 goals each.

Don't count Cleary out yet. He's hit 20 goals both of the last season. With a good shot at seeing extended time on the top line playing Newfie-Holmstrom, Cleary should hit 25 goals and might even go as high as 30.

[wingslionstigers 12]

That was the best 16 games of Filppula's career. If we project one's season based on the best 16 game stretch in their career we'd have to expect Zetterberg to have a 200 point season (which he was on pace for at the beginning of the 07-08 season).

Oh, and Franzen has been a point per game player over the last two post seasons, so we can say Franzen should easily post 82 points this season, right? Like he did last season?

But hey, let's be super generous. Let's assume Filppula produces at his best rate in his career for an entire season (despite him being notoriously inconsistent, see first half stats last year). That's 57 points. If he can stretch his level of play from the best 16 game stretch of his career out over a full season (and he's yet to play a full 82 game season in the NHL) he will have 57 points. So that's his best case scenario under your assumptions. Hardly the same as "easily posts 60 points this season". And all this assumes Filppula's got the offensive talent to be a 60+ point guy next season (which would make him one of the top 30 centres in the game, as in good enough to be the #1 centre in many cities, since Hudler's 57 pts were good for 30th overall in centres last year, and yeah- Hudler's listed as a centre on NHL.com).

Now, on to the myth that Filppula's been forced to suffer linemates that are his offensive inferiors (I can only assume this is a case of Fil fans projecting Hudler's situation onto Val). In 2007-2008 Filppula was the centre on the 2nd line when the year started. When Hank and Pav were together Filppula was the second line centre (and try to remember just how often Hank and Pavel were together). When Hank was injured Val was on Pavel's wing. Why did Babcock play with splitting Hank and Pav up so often? Val wasn't creating sufficient offense on the second line. This year it will be the same question-- can we afford to keep Dats and Z together? I'm hoping Val and Franzen will gel with their other linemate (Leino or Williams) well enough to make it possible to keep Z and Dats together. What about the 2008-2009 season? Filppula spent at least half the year playing in the top six. How do I know? Well aside from watching every single game, I also know that Filppula's even strength and total average ice time is among the top six forward totals on the team.

I'm not trying to discredit Filppula or put him down-- he's never claimed to be a first line centre caliber player. I'm trying to help posters here understand the realistic situation here-- Val isn't the next Datsyuk. He's not going to be a top 30 scorer. He is going to be an excellent 2nd line centre who will eventually play 18-20 mins a night every night for years to come. He's a very valuable piece of the team, no question. But people need to stop telling themselves that he's an elite scoring talent because they're setting themselves up for disappointment.

Haha, You watch every single game you say... Flip did not spend half the season playing on the second line last season and thats a fact. Flip accumulated alot of minutes penalty killing and his 3rd line got quite a bit of ice time. Babcock trusts Flip on the ice, hes one of our top defensive players. I really laugh at the fact you looked up stats and tried to clue together that the amount of ice time he got must been in result of 2nd line minutes. I played Juniors for 2 years i bet you played house league if at all. Anyone that knows anything about hockey knows Flips has alot of offensive talent. Alot of people on these forums haven't even played hockey in there lives and think they know hockey because they check stats on the internet daily. The only reason Flip even played on the 3rd line last year was because he was our best 3rd center on the roster. We had the depth to use such a valuable player on the 3rd line, which resulted in putting our 3rd line over the edge. It wasn't a big deal if our 3rd line got matched up against another teams 1st line. Thats why he played on the third line.

You wanna talk 07-08? Thats 2 seasons ago man. He has came along way last season. If you watch every game as you say which i find doubtful by some of the things you say. You would know last season despite Flips point production he has great offensive talent let alone the fact his defensive abilities our outstanding. Hes a great 2 way player.

Sorry if my post had some rambling and half ass wording im in a hurry right now. Oh and sorry if you take what i say defensively as thats not exactly what i intended.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Williams got 19 goals and 47 points last season (which he split between Atlanta and Columbus). You honestly think he'll regress when added to the Wings roster?

This has nothing to do with Williams. It's situation, Babcock rewards hard work. Cleary and Filppula work hard, Williams and Eaves do not. I believe that Eaves will work his butt off, because this is probably his last shot. But we all know what we're getting with J-Will, he doesnt work hard along the boards, it's why we dealt him in the first time, because we wanted to get a bit bigger and grittier (Kennys words.) Williams wont get the icetime to put up 47 points, he'll play 3rd line, maybe 2nd powerplay on the point, god help us all. I dont hate J-Will, I was a fan of his before he got kabonged by Torres and started playing like a barbie doll on the ice, but it isnt 05-06 anymore, I'll be satisfied with 30 points from Jason and a little bit of push back.

[wingslionstigers 12]

This has nothing to do with Williams. It's situation, Babcock rewards hard work. Cleary and Filppula work hard, Williams and Eaves do not. I believe that Eaves will work his butt off, because this is probably his last shot. But we all know what we're getting with J-Will, he doesnt work hard along the boards, it's why we dealt him in the first time, because we wanted to get a bit bigger and grittier (Kennys words.) Williams wont get the icetime to put up 47 points, he'll play 3rd line, maybe 2nd powerplay on the point, god help us all. I dont hate J-Will, I was a fan of his before he got kabonged by Torres and started playing like a barbie doll on the ice, but it isnt 05-06 anymore, I'll be satisfied with 30 points from Jason and a little bit of push back.

I'm not a fan of Williams myself but he isn't as bad as people make him out. Chances are Holmstrom won't be playing 82 games this season so i do see Williams playing the second line unfortunately unless somebody else steps up.

What i really wanted to get at is.. You guys need to get off Hollands back, im sure Williams was not at the top of his list by any means. I'm sure he negotiated with every player everyone on these forums has been thriving for. In the end it came down to we needed to fill a gap and thats the player he ended up having to sign. Hes better than nobody. We only signed him for a year, next year we will likely have a big offseason and makes some good moves.

Edited August 8, 2009 by wingslionstigers

[cjm502 165]

Filp for sure has the skill level, im just not sure if he has anything else.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

If he's got guys like Franzen and Cleary on his wings all season long it stands to reason he'll have the most of the lot.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

Babcock stated that he thought Filppula would have a breakout season, however Marian Hossa being here split up Zetterberg and Datsyuk which ultimately send Filppula down to the third line. I really hope Filppula plays with Franzen, they'll be unstoppable...

man that Franzen-Filppula-Hossa in the playoffs looked awesome.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Haha, You watch every single game you say... Flip did not spend half the season playing on the second line last season and thats a fact. Flip accumulated alot of minutes penalty killing and his 3rd line got quite a bit of ice time. Babcock trusts Flip on the ice, hes one of our top defensive players. I really laugh at the fact you looked up stats and tried to clue together that the amount of ice time he got must been in result of 2nd line minutes. I played Juniors for 2 years i bet you played house league if at all. Anyone that knows anything about hockey knows Flips has alot of offensive talent. Alot of people on these forums haven't even played hockey in there lives and think they know hockey because they check stats on the internet daily. The only reason Flip even played on the 3rd line last year was because he was our best 3rd center on the roster. We had the depth to use such a valuable player on the 3rd line, which resulted in putting our 3rd line over the edge. It wasn't a big deal if our 3rd line got matched up against another teams 1st line. Thats why he played on the third line.

You wanna talk 07-08? Thats 2 seasons ago man. He has came along way last season. If you watch every game as you say which i find doubtful by some of the things you say. You would know last season despite Flips point production he has great offensive talent let alone the fact his defensive abilities our outstanding. Hes a great 2 way player.

Sorry if my post had some rambling and half ass wording im in a hurry right now. Oh and sorry if you take what i say defensively as thats not exactly what i intended.

No he did. Filppula was 5th in forwards for even strength ice time per game. Sorry man- you have to be playing in the top six for a good chunk of the year for that to happen. The top two lines play at least 3 minutes a night more than the third. That adds up. And again, we're talking only even strength time.

And two seasons ago? Yeah, as in the season before last. As in the season the Wings won the cup. That's not ancient history.

And I do watch every ******* game. Funny how the statistics back up what I say, almost as if I based it in fact.

I already said he's a fantastic two way player. He's great defensively and is very good offensively. But a "great offensive talent"? Sorry man-- he's not even among the top 60 most offensively talented forwards in the league. He wouldn't crack the top 100 in terms of offensive talent. Before people freak out and say I'm a moron for saying that think about this: 30 x 3 = 90. Are there at least three players on every team in the league more offensively talented than Filppula? Yes. Four? Without a doubt if we're talking averages here (as in last year's team in Detroit had: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen and Hudler, all of whom are easily more talented offensively than Filppula, that allows a s***box team to have only three more offensively talented players).

Something tells me my bored ass is going to have to ******* write out the 3-4 players on each of the 30 teams to prove it to the Filppula puckbunnies. *sigh*

EDIT: f*** it. If some of the people here want to believe Filppula's an elite offensive talent then so be it. I see him peaking as a 50-55pt guy with excellent defensive ability, strong in the circle and a good leader. That's an excellent hockey player in my mind. Some seem to think that's a betrayal of a fan's faith in their favourite players, but I see it as realism since that's what the facts point to. Let's just leave it at that. We'll see how this all ends up in 10 years. If Filppula ends up an elite offensive talent I'll be happy to have been wrong about his peak.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[Drake_Marcus 890]

This has nothing to do with Williams. It's situation, Babcock rewards hard work. Cleary and Filppula work hard, Williams and Eaves do not. I believe that Eaves will work his butt off, because this is probably his last shot. But we all know what we're getting with J-Will, he doesnt work hard along the boards, it's why we dealt him in the first time, because we wanted to get a bit bigger and grittier (Kennys words.) Williams wont get the icetime to put up 47 points, he'll play 3rd line, maybe 2nd powerplay on the point, god help us all. I dont hate J-Will, I was a fan of his before he got kabonged by Torres and started playing like a barbie doll on the ice, but it isnt 05-06 anymore, I'll be satisfied with 30 points from Jason and a little bit of push back.

Ugggg... if we see a lot of Williams on the point I'm going to swallow a f***in' knife. I'm so sick of seeing a forward struggle to hold the line under pressure. Best case he only has to retreat from the zone and everyone regroups, wasting 10-15 seconds of valuable time. Worst case it's an odd man rush with a forward trying to play defense (which killed us on more than one occasion in the playoffs).

[dat's sick 1,002]

And Datsyuk had a very slow first half of the season compared to his second half. That doesn't mean he should've put up 120 points.

Inconsistency is the first thing Filppula needs to nail down if he wants to become a legitimate scoring talent. If he can make his best stretches of hockey his "norm" then he'll definitely crack 60pts. But that's real tough to do for any player.

Shooting more? Yes please. But his shot is definitely the weakest point of his game. He's a much, much, much better passer than shooter. He just needs to make better "shoot or pass" choices. That will come with experience and self confidence. Both of which will develop over time, not over night.

Fil was completely snakebit and just not himself in the first half of the season. That's not comparable to Datsyuk who played great the entire year and just had a stretch of a couple of months where he was the hottest player in the league. I don't know if Fil had a bad case of stanley cup hangover or what, but something was definitely 'off' in the way he played for much of the year.

I agree consistancy is key for Filppula. Like I said, if he was more consistant last year he could have gotten 50 points with ease. And if he can bring his performance from the playoffs over into next season, he could easily get 60 points. I don't care that 16 points in 23 games only makes for 57 points in 82 games statistically. Scoring in the playoffs is harder than it is in the regular season.

Fil's shot isn't the best, he needs to work on that. But I don't care how lousy your shot is, you still have to use it. Maybe he's never going to be a 30 goal guy, but we've seen hints of scoring talent in him that tells me he could get 20-25 goals if he just stops looking for the pass ALL THE TIME.