We lost 88 goals and get back 76 goals - Good Job Kenny!

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

In the past three years Bertuzzi has player 149 games assembling 95 points. Hudler has played in 145 more games to only get 29 more points.

How nice of you to include Jiri's rookie year.

I prefer to look at it this way: In the last two seasons Hudler has scored 99 points in 163 games, whereas Bertuzzi has scored 84 in 134 games. In both years, despite missing time due to injury, Bertuzzi logged more total ice time than Hudler, and, at least last season, played with better linemates (Jarome Iginla vs Mikael Samuelsson).

Keeping in mind that Hudler has been continuing to improve (15 point improvements in both seasons) whereas Bertuzzi has seemingly stagnated.

Taking size into consideration, Bertuzzi > Hudler.

I was not aware height and weight were used to calculate point totals. Does it act as a modifier? Does one of Bertuzzi's goals count for twice as much as Hudler's?

What's that? No such thing exists? Well, alright then.

[Cern 0]

Hate to spoil the fun, but there is some fuzzy math there, friendo.

You can't use actual stats on the players we lost, then utilize the wrong numbers for the players we gain.

Worse, you are "adding" players that were already here.

Bertuzzi had 15 goals.

J. Williams= 19

P. Eaves= 6

So, in terms of players we gained, we are removing 88 goals and supplying 40.

The other players you mentioned (Leino, Ericsson) had 5 and 1, respectively.

So even using the "we are adding Leino and Ericsson" line, you still only have 46. You can't say there are 76 goals replacing 88 without flubbing statistics.

Leino, Ericsson, and Helm will all be playing full seasons next year, though. It would be logical to assume that they will score more goals than they have in their previous short-term callups.

[Z and D for the C 712]

I only did the last 3 year thing because someone else brought it up.

Points are irrelevant. Hudler is a little shrimp who is too small to make it big in the NHL (proof? see: where chose to play) whereas Bertuzzi is huge. Their point totals are similar, so I would rather have Bertuzzi. If Hudler magically grew half a foot, he'd be a top 10 star in this leage. Instead, he is a midget. Such is life.

[Cern 0]

I only did the last 3 year thing because someone else brought it up.

Points are irrelevant. Hudler is a little shrimp who is too small to make it big in the NHL (proof? see: where chose to play) whereas Bertuzzi is huge. Their point totals are similar, so I would rather have Bertuzzi. If Hudler magically grew half a foot, he'd be a top 10 star in this leage. Instead, he is a midget. Such is life.

Hudler didn't have a back made out of glass, though. Fat good being huge does when you're constantly on the brink of being out 30 games, one miscalculated hit or fight and he's gone.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Cern

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Points are irrelevant. Hudler is a little shrimp who is too small to make it big in the NHL (proof? see: where chose to play) whereas Bertuzzi is huge. Their point totals are similar, so I would rather have Bertuzzi. If Hudler magically grew half a foot, he'd be a top 10 star in this leage. Instead, he is a midget. Such is life.

Is that why Hudler has managed to outscore Bertuzzi in the last two years in less time and with inferior linemates, and has also put together two playoff runs more impressive than Bertuzzi ever has? Because he's too small to make in the NHL?

(proof? see: where chose to play)

His paycheck has everything to do with that. You've proved nothing.

[Snazzy 0]

Hate to spoil the fun, but there is some fuzzy math there, friendo.

You can't use actual stats on the players we lost, then utilize the wrong numbers for the players we gain.

Worse, you are "adding" players that were already here.

Bertuzzi had 15 goals.

J. Williams= 19

P. Eaves= 6

So, in terms of players we gained, we are removing 88 goals and supplying 40.

The other players you mentioned (Leino, Ericsson) had 5 and 1, respectively.

So even using the "we are adding Leino and Ericsson" line, you still only have 46. You can't say there are 76 goals replacing 88 without flubbing statistics.

Wait! So Leino is only going to play 13 games this season? Really? And you said my post was illogical. Lol!

(by the way, Leino is on pace to score 31 goals in 81 games -- by using your logic)

P.S.

Ericsson will play more than 19 games next season

Helm will play more than 16 games next season

[T.Low 1,011]

HEY!

The point is, we thought the bench was bare, now we have otpions and versatility amongst the lines. Good thing.

Juri Hudler has left the building. Todd Bertuzzi has donned the Winged Wheel Sweater. And so it shall be for '09 /'010. Let us break bread and skate.

[Z and D for the C 712]

If Hudler is so talented, why has he played with less minutes and inferior linemates? How long have we heard this and why is he the only one in the NHL who plays with inferior linemates and less minutes than those who he is equal to in skill? Do you think there is a chance there might be a reason for this? Or are the peple on LGW the only ones smart enough to realize that if Hudler played on the first line that he'd win the Hart?

Believe it or not, THERE IS A REASON HUDLER PLAYS ON THE THIRD LINE!

And while the higher pay has a large part to do with why he defected, there are other factors (call Ripley).

Edited August 19, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[Holmstrom96 347]

Believe it or not, THERE IS A REASON HUDLER PLAYS ON THE THIRD LINE!

I agree. I liked Hudler, but I was never overly impressed with him.

[Lidstrom for life 20]

Is that why Hudler has managed to outscore Bertuzzi in the last two years in less time and with inferior linemates, and has also put together two playoff runs more impressive than Bertuzzi ever has? Because he's too small to make in the NHL?

His paycheck has everything to do with that. You've proved nothing.

I am not really disagreeing with you but the "better line mate" argument is flawed because playing on the top line also means you are playing against the other teams best defenseman, whereas on the 3rd line Hudler was playing the majority of his minutes against the other teams 2nd and 3rd defensive pairs making it much easier to score. Remember also that Hudler started last season playing with Franzen and Zetterberg but he couldn't handle being in the top 6 so Babcock moved him down.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Do you think there is a chance there might be a reason for this?

Mike Babcock does not like him.

This can best be witnessed when there's two minutes left in a game, the Wings need a goal, and he sends Tomas Kopecky over the boards to fall down and miss shots, while he glues sweet hands Hudler to the bench.

Or are the peple on LGW the only ones smart enough to realize that if Hudler played on the first line that he'd win the Hart?

I'm sure we both know that's not what I'm saying, but it would be virtually impossible for him to not improve in a better situation.

Believe it or not, THERE IS A REASON HUDLER PLAYS ON THE THIRD LINE!

Perhaps there is, but it's neither here nor there. No matter which way you look at it, Todd Bertuzzi has not played as well as Jiri Hudler these last two seasons.

I am not really disagreeing with you but the "better line mate" argument is flawed because playing on the top line also means you are playing against the other teams best defenseman, whereas on the 3rd line Hudler was playing the majority of his minutes against the other teams 2nd and 3rd defensive pairs making it much easier to score. Remember also that Hudler started last season playing with Franzen and Zetterberg but he couldn't handle being in the top 6 so Babcock moved him down.

Do you suppose Homer would do as well on the fourth line as he would playing with Hank and Pavel? Good players score more despite the opposition, otherwise they wouldn't be on the top line to begin with. Playing with good players is better.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

The Hudler love here is absolutely insane, even after he's gone. Now people are saying he's better than Bertuzzi.

From reading all these posts, I'm starting to think that Hudler could score more points than Gretzky or Lemieux if he got the same amount of minutes.

[Holmstrom96 347]

The Hudler love here is absolutely insane, even after he's gone. Now people are saying he's better than Bertuzzi.

From reading all these posts, I'm starting to think that Hudler could score more points than Gretzky or Lemieux if he got the same amount of minutes.

I'm just glad you didn't reference The Great One, you know, Crosby.

[droz 5]

Zetterberg only had 31 goals and 73 points last season, he should produce 40 goals or more and some where around 90 points this season (assuming he stays healthy). Getting shuffled on lines last season to make way for Hossa really hurt him, he plays best with a player that can feed him the puck when he gets open which he didn't get last season playing without datsyuk.

[Cern 0]

The Hudler love here is absolutely insane, even after he's gone. Now people are saying he's better than Bertuzzi.

From reading all these posts, I'm starting to think that Hudler could score more points than Gretzky or Lemieux if he got the same amount of minutes.

Way to take information and take it to stupidly hyperbolic directions.

Hudler is less injury prone than Bertuzzi and scores more. OH s*** I GUESS THAT MEANS HE'S AS GOOD AS GRETZKY THEN DURRRR. Come on, Konstantinov strapped onto a wheelchair with skates on it would be an improvement over Bertuzzi constantly not fighting for pucks, having zero defensive sense, taking endless amounts of stupid penalties, and promptly reinjuring himself. It's not a matter of Hudler being god on ice, it's a matter of Bertuzzi being so ineffective that Hudler seems like a legitimate improvement.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Cern

[dobbles 252]

Wait! So Leino is only going to play 13 games this season? Really? And you said my post was illogical. Lol!

(by the way, Leino is on pace to score 31 goals in 81 games -- by using your logic)

P.S.

Ericsson will play more than 19 games next season

Helm will play more than 16 games next season

this topic is about whether or not the recently signed forwards can make up for all the lost production. how does ericcson even figure in to that? maybe brad stuart will score more goals this year, so i guess its ok we lost hossa! the 2 things have nothing to do with each other.

If Hudler is so talented, why has he played with less minutes and inferior linemates? How long have we heard this and why is he the only one in the NHL who plays with inferior linemates and less minutes than those who he is equal to in skill? Do you think there is a chance there might be a reason for this? Or are the peple on LGW the only ones smart enough to realize that if Hudler played on the first line that he'd win the Hart?

Believe it or not, THERE IS A REASON HUDLER PLAYS ON THE THIRD LINE!

And while the higher pay has a large part to do with why he defected, there are other factors (call Ripley).

the reason hudler played on the third line and bertuzzi played on a top line? calgary has nowhere near the forward depth that we do. todd bertuzzi is going to slot in just as low as hudler did. unless you are now arguing that bertuzzi is better than hank, pavel, franzen, etc?

and money was the main reason hudler went to europe. to pretend its because he is too weak or short or some s*** is just absurd.

The Hudler love here is absolutely insane, even after he's gone. Now people are saying he's better than Bertuzzi.

From reading all these posts, I'm starting to think that Hudler could score more points than Gretzky or Lemieux if he got the same amount of minutes.

i think the hudler supporters have been very logical in their arguments. no where do you see them saying hudler was the best forward on the team or any such statement. simply that jiri hudler is currently better than todd bertuzzi. but we all know you hate people that don't fight. so i doubt that makes any sense to you.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Way to take information and take it to stupidly hyperbolic directions.

Hudler is less injury prone than Bertuzzi and scores more. OH s*** I GUESS THAT MEANS HE'S AS GOOD AS GRETZKY THEN DURRRR. Come on, Konstantinov strapped onto a wheelchair with skates on it would be an improvement over Bertuzzi constantly not fighting for pucks, having zero defensive sense, taking endless amounts of stupid penalties, and promptly reinjuring himself. It's not a matter of Hudler being god on ice, it's a matter of Bertuzzi being so ineffective that Hudler seems like a legitimate improvement.

Stupidly isn't a word.

I'm tired of people talking about how great Hudler is compared to the icetime he gets, or comparing him to Datsyuk with similar icetime. Way too much love for a midget 3rd liner who is inconsistent with his scoring.

And BTW, we get it. You hate Bertuzzi.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

i think the hudler supporters have been very logical in their arguments. no where do you see them saying hudler was the best forward on the team or any such statement. simply that jiri hudler is currently better than todd bertuzzi. but we all know you hate people that don't fight. so i doubt that makes any sense to you.

Good one.

I don't hate Lidstrom, Hank, Pavel and many others. Nor do I hate Hudler, I'm just simply not heartbroken over him leaving.

[Cern 0]

Stupidly isn't a word.

I'm tired of people talking about how great Hudler is compared to the icetime he gets, or comparing him to Datsyuk with similar icetime. Way too much love for a midget 3rd liner who is inconsistent with his scoring.

And BTW, we get it. You hate Bertuzzi.

I don't even have Hudler love, there's just no objective evidence to suggest that he's worse than Bertuzzi. The only thing in favour of Bert is that he's big, but he does jack s*** with his size so what's the point?

Oh and for the record: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stupidly

DERP, HOW DOES I ADVERB? Seriously, just f*** off and take up wrestling or MMA or something else that caters to your juvenile mind.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Cern

[Cern 0]

Good one.

I don't hate Lidstrom, Hank, Pavel and many others. Nor do I hate Hudler, I'm just simply not heartbroken over him leaving.

Oh please, you make xenophobic remarks about Euros every other post. You can't even keep a coherent story for your own unjustified bulls***.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Cern

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I don't even have Hudler love, there's just no objective evidence to suggest that he's worse than Bertuzzi. The only thing in favour of Bert is that he's big, but he does jack s*** with his size so what's the point?

Oh and for the record: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stupidly

DERP, HOW DOES I ADVERB? Seriously, just f*** off and take up wrestling or MMA or something else that caters to your juvenile mind.

Wow, did I ruffle your feathers a little too much sweetheart?

All I said was that you hated Bertuzzi.

Oh please, you make xenophobic remarks about Euros every other post. You can't even keep a coherent story for your own unjustified bulls***.

It must be a bad day in Vancouver today, huh?

You're the one acting like a juvenile right now. I would tell you to f*** off also, but there's no point in doing so. Hopefully the mods will deal with you properly.

Edited August 19, 2009 by GMRwings1983

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

Bertuzzi > Hudler

Williams = Sammy

Eaves > Kopecky

Hossa = was never actually a part of our future nor our past ... so not a great loss IMO.

I like big Bert and all, but no way he is better than Huds. I do like what Kenny is doing. The fact that we spent the same amount of money for 3 players (Williams, Eaves, Bertuzzi) that we WOULD have spent on just one player (Hudler) makes me happy. But if we take the money out of the discussion, Hudler is not only better right now, but he has the potential to be much much better than Bert. Bertuzzi is still a solid player, but he has already reached his potential and is on the decline. So in closing...

Bertuzzi < Hudler

[mmamolo 287]

We're kind of comparing apples with oranges in my opinion. You can all decide who's the apple and who's the orange but Hudler and Bertuzzi are two very different players. Bertuzzi brings a net pressence, a physical part to his game, while bringing bad penalties and injuries. Hudler brings some speed (more than Bertuzzi anyways), offensive awareness, while bringing streakyness.

This really boils down to what makes someone a good hockey player in your mind. Does putting up points with minimal ice time make you good? Or does bringing a more physical, net pressence goal scoring method make you good?

If we're talking straight production than I'd say Hudler would produce more this season had he stayed. Plus Bertuzzi is on the downturn of his career while Hudler has room too improve. That being said, with the needs the Wings had a few days ago I think I'd prefer Bertuzzi over Hudler for this season. He fits the bill of needs far more than Hudler does, in my opinion.

[Holmstrom96 347]

We're kind of comparing apples with oranges in my opinion. You can all decide who's the apple and who's the orange but Hudler and Bertuzzi are two very different players. Bertuzzi brings a net pressence, a physical part to his game, while bringing bad penalties and injuries. Hudler brings some speed (more than Bertuzzi anyways), offensive awareness, while bringing streakyness.

This really boils down to what makes someone a good hockey player in your mind. Does putting up points with minimal ice time make you good? Or does bringing a more physical, net pressence goal scoring method make you good?

If we're talking straight production than I'd say Hudler would produce more this season had he stayed. Plus Bertuzzi is on the downturn of his career while Hudler has room too improve. That being said, with the needs the Wings had a few days ago I think I'd prefer Bertuzzi over Hudler for this season. He fits the bill of needs far more than Hudler does, in my opinion.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

The Hudler love here is absolutely insane, even after he's gone. Now people are saying he's better than Bertuzzi.

From reading all these posts, I'm starting to think that Hudler could score more points than Gretzky or Lemieux if he got the same amount of minutes.

Cool non-argument, bro.

I'll get back to you when you've got something a little more constructive than "lol ur rong."