LGW is Pro-Enforcer: The Results are In.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

What ya talkin about?...Didn't you see the damage Kopecky's face did to Beauchemin's hand?

I remember how excited I got during the squaroff of that fight. I jumped up and screamed with anticipation of Kopecky repeating his beating of Sharp. Ten seconds later, I had this face.

[kook_10 1,705]

WTF?

Teams run the Wings all the time. Nobody is laying off of us just because we don't dress a tough guy.

It sounds like you're saying that enforcers not only don't deter, but also draw more cheapshots against their teammates. I guess every team that has ever dressed an enforcer for deterrence was making a mistake. You've just solved the entire evolution of hockey toughness. Congratulations.

Read again smart guy.

An enforcer would engage their opponents in a physical game and draw more heat onto the players who don't want it. By heat I'm not even talking about cheapshots - just hard play.

The Wings don't have the size, gas or inclination to play a physical game all season long.

[uk_redwing 495]

[Broken 16 381]

Didn't Babcock say some time ago that there'll be no entitlement on the Red Wings?...Seems to me Maltby's been riding on his past achievements for the past 2 to 3 years now

He fulfills his part of the contract (<---Key word). Just because his best isn't good enough on most nights doesn't mean he should be cast aside like a piece of trash. That loyalty that obviously frustrates you is one of the foundations of this team. Love it or leave it.

[kook_10 1,705]

Don't you know - the ensuing pp will then become our enforcer

Seriously though - I'd rather have an enforcer than not (regardless of multiple scenarios you've mentioned), but would prefer a handful of guys who can play, and drop the mitts when needed...It's why many of us wanted a combo of Moen/Malhotra/May/Neil, but instead - well you know.

I agree - it would like to see them have one person on every line who could even protect themself, much less others. If the Wings had a group of guys like that, then I would agree they could match any style of play. I just don't think one guy would tip the overall toughness balance of the team unless maybe one of the youngsters steps up with some balls and accepts the role as well. As a whole they are too soft for a physical game (which is not too soft to win), thats why every year they avoid it until around the All Star break when other teams force it on them. I think St. Louis came out and took it to them like that, but we won't see that many games like that once they're a couple weeks into the season. I could always be wrong.

Edited October 8, 2009 by kook_10

[Broken 16 381]

Man I love Dats - I really do!...The guy's got heart, but what concerns me is that some clown like Perry is gonna run him head 1st into the boards, and no - no tuff guy on the bench will prevent that...My only hope is for Perry waking up in a dentist chair with most of his teeth missing, or I hope the fear of that happening just might make Perry (or a guy like him) think twice about running Dats.

Gotcha. So it's all about retribution.

Stanley Cup checklist:

Strong system with players that buy into it... check

Solid goaltending... check

Defensive minded players that are quick in transition... check

Puck lugging defensmen with a great first pass... check

Gritty players that are capable of playing the body to cause turnovers... check

Open ice hitters on defense... check

Strong power play... check

Strong penalty kill... err

Players that seek retribution for cheapshots on team mates... f***! You're right, we're doomed.

[C-TownWing 0]

Division titles/President's trophy means squat - just ask the Sharks...What matters most is this ...Last I heard Stanley doesn't give a crap as to how ya got to the dance (be it seed #1, or #8) - just that you were the last 1 standing.

While that's absolutely true, all three teams won the Cup, so that argument doesn't work to put any of the years ahead of the others.

You said you preferred 97 and 98 to 08. I was simply saying that I got more enjoyment, on balance, from 08 because they won more games. Winning's more important to me than having the team built exactly as I'd do it.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I also happen to enjoy watching the likes of Kocur/Shanahan/McCarty/Lapointe beat the snot outta the opposition along with winning the Cup...It is hockey afterall...Had we the players like those mentioned above the chances of our guys getting tuned-up by the likes of Perry/Getzlaf/Beachemin/Pronger/Neidermayer bros this past spring would've been slim.

That is blatantly false.

First off, the presence of any of those players would not have prevented the game six scrum in Anaheim. That was a out of the blue first line scuffle that would not have been any less of one with an "enforcer" or fourth line of tougher players on the bench.

Getzlaf is not afraid of tough guys. He is a warrior and a hockey player who knows how to play against any type of player. Perry is a scumbag who will go after the weaker guys if he has the choice (Rafalski) but is not exactly afraid of the bigger guys (Ericsson, Drake). Pronger is Pronger. He is a behemoth who punches, elbows, steps on, and crosschecks whoever the hell he feels like, regardless of who is on the other side.

Enjoyment is one thing that I can level with and tip my hat to, because fighting and tough bruisers on the fourth line is damn entertaining. Prevention? Not exactly a proven outcome of having said players on the ice.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Doc Holiday

[Doc Holiday 0]

It would depend on who's on the ice when $hit goes down; the guys we had out there - yeah - I expect the Wings get manhandled...Got guys out there like Shanny along with Lapointe (maybe Rouse on D) - bet ya there'll be some 2nd gueses, or at least we wouldn't have our boys getting pummeled like they had...Mind you I'm using the 97/98 team in place of our current roster.

The problem is the 97 team was in an era of more clutch and grab, where there wasn't much space for the skilled guys which in turn meant that the ones who succeeded were the bigger guys. That's why the Wings switched from a finesse style to a grittier style in the 96 offseason with signing Shanahan and Kocur, and having the tougher guys get more ice time like Mac, Malts, Ward, etc.

To have a team like 97 you'd need to do a lot to the roster, which may be possible in this coming offseason but wasn't much of an option this season. Sure you may have been able to get Malholtra and Moen, but that isn't even close to the group of guys Detroit had in 97-98.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Doc Holiday

[Doc Holiday 0]

Some here will disagree with me, but I feel these past few years it's looking more, and more like it did 10-15 years ago (playoff hockey that is) with the obstruction, and refs not making the calls (a usually tight-lipped Babcock even commented on it)...We'll never again see the blend of skill/grit that we had then; players that can play, and get their noses dirty are becomming more, and more difficult to find.

Only time will tell. The problem is it seems the referees as a whole have been picking and choosing when to blow the whistle. Called a lot of penalties in the regular season last year, followed by Hal Gill Norris Trophy candidate in the playoffs.

It has seemed like they have gone back to calling it like last regular season. Once again, time will tell.

Some feel our 97/98 teams wouldn't do well in the game today - I don't buy that 1 bit (mind you we still had our Russians back then)...Sure they may not win the ever so covted Presidents Trophy, but who cares about that? Like I said - the way the game is being called in the playoffs our 97/98 squad would do very well.

I don't agree with the assertion our 97/98 teams wouldn't do well, but as you said, there aren't as many true power forwards in the game today and guys like Kocur who could play the game effectively (not just like a fourth line plugger, but someone who could actually score when it mattered). Holland saw the game changing in a direction that would allow players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg to really do well, and he created a team in that likeness. In doing so he has brought the Wings to three straight conference finals appearances, a stanley cup, and two straight finals appearances.

The additions of Moen/Malhotra won't bring back any likeness to our Cup teams from the 90's, but I see it more or less a step in the right direction when you compare it to what we got instead with Eaves/Williams.

And of course it is hard to say at the time being. It has only been two games and it is unknown exactly what Williams will do for the team as a powerplay specialist and what Eaves will bring to the team.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Some here will disagree with me, but I feel these past few years it's looking more, and more like it did 10-15 years ago (playoff hockey that is) with the obstruction, and refs not making the calls (a usually tight-lipped Babcock even commented on it)...We'll never again see the blend of skill/grit that we had then; players that can play, and get their noses dirty are becomming more, and more difficult to find.

Some feel our 97/98 teams wouldn't do well in the game today - I don't buy that 1 bit (mind you we still had our Russians back then)...Sure they may not win the ever so covted Presidents Trophy, but who cares about that? Like I said - the way the game is being called in the playoffs our 97/98 squad would do very well.

The additions of Moen/Malhotra won't bring back any likeness to our Cup teams from the 90's, but I see it more or less a step in the right direction when you compare it to what we got instead with Eaves/Williams.

I've seen the same thing and I hope this continues. I'll admit to enjoying that style of hockey, where the strong survive. It's bump and grind North American hockey. When I was watching HNC on Saturday I noticed both games seemed to be played more that way than the finesse game that Bettman has been trying to push down our throats. Maybe he is finally realizing this is North America and not Europe.

[Doggy 130]

Agreed - although I don't mind watching players with finesse scoring pretty goals either; I just like a good blend of both (like we had in the late 90's).

My only issue though is that our beloved Red Wings have trouble with this style of play (our current roster that is)...IMO we don't have enough of the types that can withstand the pounding that clutch & grab playoff hockey can be; adding Williams/Eaves won't help that much...Maybe the refs will call more pen this spring, but I won't hold my breath.

For sure. Our ability to only get 31 wins in the past two postseasons is pretty much irrefutable proof we can't handle that tighter, tougher, clutch & grab playoff style.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

This is the best headline I've seen on Detroit Free Press in quite some time... freep.com. For all of those naysayers that are against having an enforcer and have been consistently saying "Ken Holland knows what he's doing". I finally agree, Ken KNOWS what he's doing... unlike the naysayers, he signed an enforcer.

I can proudly say now, that through verified vote, LGW IS PRO-ENFORCER, KEN HOLLAND IS PRO-ENFORCER, AND OUR 2009-10 DETROIT RED WINGS OUR PRO-ENFORCER.

Eat crow anti's.

Thursday, October 8, 2009

Wings sign enforcer Brad May, send Justin Abdelkader to minors

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Detroit -- The Red Wings signed veteran Brad May to a one-year, two-way contract Thursday. To make room for him, the Wings sent Justin Abdelkader back to Grand Rapids.

May, 37, had been on a professional tryout. He will reprise the role that Aaron Downey played the past couple of seasons -- an enforcer-type player the Wings can deploy against some of the more physical teams in the league.

May has played in 1,001 NHL games for six different teams. He's scored 127 goals and amassed 2,182 penalty minutes.

[Doggy 130]

This is the best headline I've seen on Detroit Free Press in quite some time... freep.com. For all of those naysayers that are against having an enforcer and have been consistently saying "Ken Holland knows what he's doing". I finally agree, Ken KNOWS what he's doing... unlike the naysayers, he signed an enforcer.

I can proudly say now, that through verified vote, LGW IS PRO-ENFORCER, KEN HOLLAND IS PRO-ENFORCER, AND OUR 2009-10 DETROIT RED WINGS OUR PRO-ENFORCER.

Eat crow anti's.

WTF??

[Guest mindfly]

Hehe

"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

Babcock's full of s***, enforcer's don't deter anything.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Hehe

Looks like Babcock doesn't believe in the idea of enforcers not deterring anything.

Take that, anti-enforcer people.

[Chunkylover 26]

This is the best headline I've seen on Detroit Free Press in quite some time... freep.com. For all of those naysayers that are against having an enforcer and have been consistently saying "Ken Holland knows what he's doing". I finally agree, Ken KNOWS what he's doing... unlike the naysayers, he signed an enforcer.

I can proudly say now, that through verified vote, LGW IS PRO-ENFORCER, KEN HOLLAND IS PRO-ENFORCER, AND OUR 2009-10 DETROIT RED WINGS OUR PRO-ENFORCER.

Eat crow anti's.

Looks like Babcock doesn't believe in the idea of enforcers not deterring anything.

Take that, anti-enforcer people.

No one here is anti-enforcer. No one here argued against signing May; I actually promoted this as a good move a few pages back.

If anything we're anti-Holland-bashing for moves he doesn't make.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Chunkylover

[Chunkylover 26]

Man I love Dats - I really do!...The guy's got heart, but what concerns me is that some clown like Perry is gonna run him head 1st into the boards, and no - no tuff guy on the bench will prevent that...My only hope is for Perry waking up in a dentist chair with most of his teeth missing, or I hope the fear of that happening just might make Perry (or a guy like him) think twice about running Dats.

If Perry were to run Datsyuk, and on the next shift Babcock played May with Holmstrom and Franzen, and May beats up Perry, wouldn't the Wings be liable for a fine (instigator rule)? I'm not at all well versed on the nuances of that rule, but I think that happened to Philadelphia last year.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Babcock's full of s***, enforcer's don't deter anything.

Yeah, that Lidstrom injury in 08 must have been all my imagination.

So no one labels me an "anti-enforcer euro-***** lover", I enjoy having an enforcer in the lineup. I just don't consider them someone who will make or break the team in terms of success.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

The whole "enforcers keep players from getting run" argument isn't exactly proven.

Wait, you said this 2 days ago, but now that your boy Holland signed May, you are changing your tune to liking having an enforcer in the line-up? For what purpose, then?

[Guest E_S_A_D]

So no one labels me an "anti-enforcer euro-***** lover"

You said it.

[Guest Shoreline]

Wait, you said this 2 days ago, but now that your boy Holland signed May, you are changing your tune to liking having an enforcer in the line-up? For what purpose, then?

What he said is true and doesn't change because Holland signed May. Try actually reading his argument instead of wanking to enforcers.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

...wanking to enforcers.....

Your posts are now making sense to me.... Rice-A-Roni is tasty.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Wait, you said this 2 days ago, but now that your boy Holland signed May, you are changing your tune to liking having an enforcer in the line-up? For what purpose, then?

Yes, I said that, and have maintained that I enjoy having an enforcer in the lineup. Before May getting signed.

There is no contradiction. I never said Holland would be out of his mind to carry an enforcer, or that Holland is a smart GM because he doesn't dress an enforcer regularly.

You are full of it.

You said it.

Point it out, then. You seem to make multiple assertions about me without being able to deliver.

It isn't that hard to pretend to be respectful.