John Buccigross Talks About The Wings In His Mailbag

[skyphoenix 153]

Now, I never go on ESPN for hockey news. EVER. But I was going on there to see the matchups for Saturday for another board I go on and run weekend picks...needless to say the headline on the NHL page was a picture of Pavel and the line "Pavel Datsyuk Past His Prime" so I had to click it to see what he had to say. Basically, Buccigross claims that the Wings are at the end of their run and wont win the Central Division and that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are past their prime.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/notebook?pag...s/091021mailbag

[wmubronco420 25]

yea i just read that too, no big deal just let him say that s***. he'll be proved wrong byothe end of the year like people always do when they bad mouth the wings.

[Carman 387]

Hard to argue against him, Datsyuk hasn't been himself in over 30 games and Zetterberg has just been on and off depending on the period.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Datsyuk has become a better player every year, so I think it's kinda crazy to say he's past his prime. He's had a slow start to this year, but it's too soon to say he's in decline. On the other hand the TSN "experts" were saying that "injuries are behind him" in regard to Pavel before this season, so it's pretty obvious these guys don't know much about him (what injuries??).

Zetterberg is pretty clearly in his prime. I see no reason to say he's past it. Sometimes I'm afraid he gets too heavy a defensive duty, to the detriment of his offensive game, but if he gets to play with Pavel this season he should get some help on both sides of the ice.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Hard to argue against him, Datsyuk hasn't been himself in over 30 games and Zetterberg has just been on and off depending on the period.

If "on and off" means playing Conn Smythe hockey, then I wish we had more on and off players.

[rage 24]

If "on and off" means playing Conn Smythe hockey, then I wish we had more on and off players.

I think that a little bit much, calling Zetterberg's play this year as "Conn Smythe"!

I'd say it's far from that.

[Carman 387]

If "on and off" means playing Conn Smythe hockey, then I wish we had more on and off players.

What I mean by "on and off" is one shift(or even series/road trips) he can dominate, then another he can float around the ice and be invisible like he has been the first couple games of the year. I mean he could be a lot worse(Eric Staal ), but I just want to see him put up 80-100 points consistently season after season like other players of his salary.

[skyphoenix 153]

I wouldnt call his recently play Conn Smythe worthy but I wouldnt say it was far from that either. He leads the team in points because of his 6 assists, while he is -2...however when you have the kind of goaltending/defense that we have right now the minuses are all over the board. I wouldnt say Zetterberg is past his prime, nor would I say Datsyuk is just yet. Obviously if you assume every player plays their best hockey between ages 20-25 then yeah, they are past their prime but they won the Stanley Cup just 2 years ago and made it to the finals last year and they were already past age 25.

Edited October 22, 2009 by skyphoenix

[russianswede919293 95]

Yup one of the top 3 players in MVP votes last season is past his prime...

EPIC fail ESPN...maybe the NHL is better off with Versus at least they know what hockey is...

[Guest Lidstromboli]

datsyuk is past his prime as long as it gets them page hits

[cupforwings 138]

Hard to argue against him, Datsyuk hasn't been himself in over 30 games and Zetterberg has just been on and off depending on the period.

every post you make is negative... its a little ridiculous

Espn is a joke when it comes to hockey... the only players they think are good anymore are ovechkin, crosby, and malkin... everybody else sucks apparently... Datsyuk and Zetterberg are going to have stellar seasons again once we start playing some games and getting in a grove... to even suggest that PAVAL DATSYUK and HENRIK ZETTERBERG are past their prime is an insult to both players, the Redwings, and the NHL... espn has never like the wings and now they have a little fuel to their fire... ridiculous

[Buppy 1,720]

What I mean by "on and off" is one shift(or even series/road trips) he can dominate, then another he can float around the ice and be invisible like he has been the first couple games of the year. I mean he could be a lot worse(Eric Staal ), but I just want to see him put up 80-100 points consistently season after season like other players of his salary.

Over the last four years he's averaged better than a point per game, and 30+ goals. That is $6 million consistency, and he was doing at $2.65 million.

[tommingthepuck96 1]

Maybe i read it wrong but im pretty sure it was a poster not bucci who said datsyuk and Z are past their prime.

[skyphoenix 153]

Maybe i read it wrong but im pretty sure it was a poster not bucci who said datsyuk and Z are past their prime.

The poster asked why Pavel and Z get no love and Bucci went on to say they are past their prime and the Wings wont win the Central.

Edited October 22, 2009 by skyphoenix

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

What Bucci actually said in the article:

First of all, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg are no longer in their NHL prime. Datsyuk is 31 and Zetterberg is 29. Those are not "prime" ages to play a nine-month NHL season.

I'm not saying Datsyuk and Zetterberg are Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden and will never win another Stanley Cup. Just realize that players get injured more in their 30s and begin a downward arc in their production.

Secondly, the Wings are probably at the end of their run. Their best players are older and their younger players are average NHL players. They continue to live off their power players and struggle with their penalty killing and goaltending. The injury to Johan Franzen is enormous. The Red Wings will struggle to score goals and that is a problem because they are not constructed to prevent them. Coach Mike Babcock may have to make some alterations to the Wings' normal style of play and GM Ken Holland may have to reach into his bag of tricks and try to find a goaltender.

The first step is a healthy Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and go from there. Detroit won't win the Central Division, but it has all season to get ready for the playoffs, when Franzen can hopefully return healthy. There is still a lot of good in Detroit, just maybe not championship good.

sounds pretty accurate to me.

[Carman 387]

every post you make is negative... its a little ridiculous

Not really, I don't even agree with the writer of the article. I'm just saying I can see where he is coming from. Zetterberg had a underwhelming regular season last year for his standards, and Datsyuk has been getting injured rather often. Also he isn't off base about the Central Division the Red Wing's will face the hardest season in recent memory I still think they can, but it certainly isn't automatic like it has been in past years. I don't see why the guy is a idiot for writing that article? Nothing that he wrote is a lie, he is getting paid to write his opinion. It's not like he said the Wing's are awful and won't make the playoffs...

Edited October 22, 2009 by Carman

[StevieY'sguy 1]

If all of you pumped the brakes on the biased behavior and take an objective look at what the article says, it is hard to argue all that much.

-First of all, ESPN does have subpar hockey coverage as a whole but Buccigross knows his stuff and tries to push hockey at ESPN more than any other anchor at ESPN by far (try and watch 10 minutes of him on Sportscenter where he doesn't throw in a reference to the NHL or hockey in general...it doesn't happen often). Also his weekly mailbag column often talks in depth about players that few people other than hardcore hockey fans have even heard of. He also does a very good job connecting with his readers, he gets hundreds of emails every week and claims to answer all of them...I didn't believe him but both times i have emailed him i got a paragraph-long response about the exact topic i wrote to him about, within 3 days.

-second of all, read the whole column this week, a reader wrote a letter to him asking about who he thought would get to 1,000 points first between Ovie and Crosby....in the response he talked about how a hockey player's peak athleticism is usually around the age of 25...being that Z and Dats are a few years past this, i am sure that the decreasing athletic ability of these guys (on the body's natural aging process alone) has something to do with his assesment of Z and Pav.

-Third and most importantly of all, it's not like the guy said the Wings suck and that Zetterburg and Datsyuk are going to be lucky to break 15-20-35 the rest of their careers...he even cautioned that he wasn't saying that these guys will never win another Cup, all he was trying to say is that players get injured more easily/often as they approach and enter their 30s (which is an age group that Z and Pav fit into), and that they begin a "downward arc in production"....which are two statistical facts, period. As far as him saying the Wings won't win the Central, between the injury to Franzen, the question marks in net and on the blue line, and how Chicago has started out, how can you blame anyone for saying that?

It is anyone's right to disagree with Bucci's opinion, but discounting the guy's hockey chops by criticizing him for stating an opinion (and not even a particularly outlandish one at that) in which he used statistical facts as reasoning only makes his critics look like they don't know what they are talking about.

Edited October 22, 2009 by StevieY'sguy

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I like Bucci but that's a really odd notion he puts forth; I think you need to wait until a guy is closer to 35 before you declare he's past his prime. They could easily have their best seasons in the coming years before the inevitable decline.

[Mckinley25 679]

I miss when age and intelligence trumped youth. Remember 2002 when by today's standards Yzerman, Shannahan, Robitaille, Hull, Larionov, and probably Fedorov were "past their prime"?

At that point our "youth" was probably average.

That year may have been a fluke due to the INSANE amount of talent, but what a year.

(I didn't include Lidstrom because defensemen seem to generally be considered in their prime later than forwards. But an argument could be made I suppose.)

[AtomicPunk 296]

If you look at it objectively, and not as a Wings fan, it's not all that wrong. Do you think Ovechkin is in his prime NOW, or will be in 5 years? (scary thought). Players may get wiser as they get older but sometimes the body won't do what the mind wants it to do.

[Nev 1,085]

I've been reading Buccigross's column for years and years now, and whilst I've gone off it a little bit the last couple of years when every other article is a Crosby-Malkin wankathon, one thing I have learned in that time is to trust his hockey predictions. Time and time again he gets it right, including last year when he predicted that Pittsburgh would beat Detroit in 7 (I was like "wtf? Pens win game 7 at JLA?")

Because I have learned to put such faith in his forecasts I was actually depressed when I read his pre-season prediction for us to finish 4th. Its not because he hates the Wings (although he does have enormous hard-ons for the Pens, Flyers and Bruins and always has), he's just calling it as he sees it. Our team defense sucks, our goaltending has been average, and our big 3 are all getting older.

For the record Pavel Datsyuk, since he got within touching distance of 100 points last season has just 2 assists in his last 8 regular season games.

[mjlegend 155]

Trade 'em now, Kenny. I'm sick of these old farts clogging up valuable cap space.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Every year we seem to have someone or some tabloid reporting that the Wings are getting old and past their prime. Well one year these pundits will be right with the prediction it's only time catching up which really isn't that hard to forcast. Thi year is gunna be a' lets get thru it best we can and see where we end up'. The likes of Helm, Abdelkader, Ericsson, Leino and hopefully Howard will have had a full season of playing time under their belts and be better off for it. These guys are our future for the next 5-10 yrs. We have some very good prospects coming up as well, who i think you will see in the line up now and then. The area where Kenny has to be shrewd is the free agents. I think he did a good job with his signings considering the $ he gave for them. Its next years free agency where the Wings will be big players and looking at who will be available now makes me think that kenny is already planning to maybe get a big fish or 2 then. My only regret is that he didn't go after Bouwmeester last year, as we will need a dominating blueline presence when Lids hangs them up, and Im not sure we have that calibre in the making with our D prospects at present. Still, we will have a good year, and will probably go 2 rounds in the post season. Any further and this current roster is over acheiving, that isn't a rundown on the boys just a fact when looking at the other rosters out there.

[dat's sick 1,002]

I think that a little bit much, calling Zetterberg's play this year as "Conn Smythe"!

I'd say it's far from that.

He said during the last 30 games. Now maybe he meant regular season only, and in that case I agree he's been on and off. But most of the last 30 games for him came during the playoffs, and he was along with Osgood probably the top Smythe candidate on the Wings.

This year he's had a slow start due to his groin, but he looked great in the last 2 games. And he still has a point per game if I'm not mistaken. He's getting there, he's gonna have a good year.

[Phazon 24]

zetterberg is better in the playoff than regular season

datsyuk is better in the regular season than playoffs

i rather have zetterberg.